I'm wondering if starting out with boiling water is too much heat. I've always thought the water for a bain marie with custards should never get above a bare simmer throughout the baking time.

ETA - This link negates my thoughts on the boiling water. However, I seem to have good luck starting with hot...not boiling...water.

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/8361-should-you-use-hot-or-cold-water-for-water-baths

Linnea, I don't make baked custard, so can't help, but your grandmother's sounds much nicer than the usual. Would you be willing to share the recipe?

When I first started making this myself, I remembered the water bath, but not what temperature the water should be. So I started with water straight from the tap. It took twice as long to bake as it was supposed to. Which makes sense, the volume of liquid to raise to baking temperature was so much greater. So then I went to boiling water.

Boiling water is 212 degrees while the heat of the oven is 350. So you'd think boiling water would be ok to use: except sometimes it's not.

I don't recall actually noticing if the water in the pan was simmering in the oven. I think perhaps when the time is up, I open the door and I pull the rack out to check, it must stop simmering.

plllog, it's on an old and yellowed 3 x 5 card with scribbled notes that only I can read. I'll have to type it up.

My kids never liked it - actually they would never try it - so I never had a reason to type it up, unlike other favorite recipes.

Sounds like the recipe I use for Creme Carmel . I always strain the milk egg mixture before pouring into the baking dish and I bake at 300 not 350. Always velvety smooth.

ETA The milk . Is brought to a boil with vanilla then cooled before adding the eggs.

I have never made any other custards besides this one. I've ween wondering if my temperature was too high.

Pardon the questions, but I don't know the food science behind why things are done certain ways.

Why is the milk / egg strained? Is that to get rid of the stringy part of the eggs?

And why is the milk boiled and then cooled down before adding the eggs? Thank you.

Cool the milk somewhat so the eggs won't cook while you're whisking, making omelette rather than custard.

I've always strained because that's what you're supposed to do, so I don't have an official explanation, but y'know how you know the custard is coming together as little bits thicken and become pseudo-lumps? Pushing it through the strainer makes it all cream silky smooth. It seems a little looser but it's really just evened out. If the bubbles come in the whisking, the straining would squeeze them out again, maybe.

Please don't put yourself out over the recipe. It would just be for my to-try file anyway. :)

I'm pretty sure the bubbles are the result of too high a temperature.

The straining is indeed to get rid of any stringy bits or unblended bits.

Scalding the milk is an old pre-pasteurisation process but it also kills various enzymes and denatures the whey protein so it does taste a tiny bit different. Cooling it before adding the eggs means you're not cooking your eggs too early in the process.

I understand that you don't want to make scrambled eggs with hot milk: just didn't get why the milk had to be heated in the first place.

This reminds me of making a cooked custard on the stove: which I have not made in a very long time. Not since I made Napoleans a few years back. It's like making a cooked custard, then baking it.

I think my number one problem is too high a temperature. That plus the water added to the outer container being too close to boiling. I just reviewed a number of recipes online. Most were baked at 325.

Remember, most home recipes weren't made in calibrated ovens.

Sorry I misunderstood the question above. :(

I' m no food scientist either. I just bring the milk to a boil because my Mom did it and my recipe calls for it. My suspicion is the warm milk is thickened by the eggs to form the custard. The straning makes it silky smooth.

I always used this recipe

https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/international/european/french/creme-caramel

Using cream makes it much nicer to eat and I think helps stop the bubble effect.

Linnea, 325 sounds like a better choice to me.

I hope to make some tonight. I will try controlling for a couple of smaller things first. I will lower the temperature and have the water for the water bath not as hot.

One thing I always liked about this recipe is how simple it is. Something I make to use up inexpensive eggs and milk. We don't really eat it like a dessert: it's more of a high protein snack. We just scoop it out of the pyrex bowl it was baked in. My husband will not eat desserts as a rule: he avoids starchy carbs and sugar. But he will eat this (leaving the tasty syrup for me.).

My grandmother grew up on a dairy farm in Denmark. She made a lot of things that I am sure originated as a way to use up milk. And it would have been made in a wood burning stove.

Throwing my two cents in....are you always using full fat milk or sometimes using a lesser percent? You indicate that only sometimes does the custard come out bubbly. The only variable I can see is the fat content in the milk. I want to say a lower fat content may be the cause of the bubbles....

Dees_1, I am always using full fat milk. Have not used low fat in years.

No help on the bubbles thing, but I wanted to add that I've always known that type of custard as 'flan'.

But that said, wouldn't bubbles indicate trapped air? Maybe if custard was allowed to rest a bit after beating, bubbles would rise to the top? Might tapping the pan before placing in the oven help release bubbles too?

And straining would remove that stringy thingy - chalaza (sp?), which I do not mind, but some people do.

Can I substitute the milk in the recipe for a different kind of product such as soy milk or almond milk. Would this make the end result drastically different or just result in a less creamy custard.

linnea, I'm late on this conversation... as a self-described 'custard snob' who loves custard in all forms (!!!), if your having problems with bubbles...

Bubbles, whether on top or inside a custard, create a crust of sorts when cooked... that thickened stuff that alters the smooth mouthfeel. Bubbles would be caused by one of two things, or sometimes both: boiling or simmering too high and creating air pockets - aka bubbles; whisking vigorously and incorporating air into the custard.

The water in your bain marie or double boiler should be simmering gently, not boiling (look for steam and small bubbles formed on the bottom of the pan). Yes, it takes a while to heat and thicken, but that's part of the process. The water should not be touching the bowl holding the custard on top. If you heat your custard to a rather thick consistency you might be trapping air bubbles in your custard, by either too much heat, or incorporating air into the custard by stirring air into it.

As I don't know your recipe, some custards require other ingredients incorporated once off the bain marie/double boiler, and say to whisk or beat in. If you are stirring, beating, or whisking in such a way that incorporates air at that point, you'll get bubbles then. If your custard is already thick at this point, the bubbles can become trapped. So yes, you'd wish to allow it to sit a while to let the bubbles rise to the top and skim them off with a spoon. Many (unbaked) custards tend to be thinner, so bubbles will rise to the surface quickly and can be skimmed off right away. Personally, if I'm tempering eggs into a hot mixture, I do so slowly and stir so as not to incorporate air (don't lift the spoon/whisk up while stirring/blending).

And yeah, I'm one of those weirdos that removes the chalazae from all the egg yolks prior to adding ; - )

Islay, We must be sisters from another mother... cream always makes custard better :)

With my recipe NOTHING is done on top of the stove. There is no precooking: the ingredients are just beaten together with a hand egg beater or a whisk; poured into the pyrex bowl, full bowl set into a larger one, put in the preheated oven, hot water poured into the large dish, door closed, timer on, and that’s it.

I don’t think I ever realized until I started this thread that other people are making their BAKED custards half on the stove. I still don’t fully understand why. Like I said, I'm no food scientist (I used to like Alton Brown's show where he explained technically how everything worked). It can’t be just this extra step that makes the result smooth: because most of the time my simple-prep baked custard IS smooth. My grandmother’s and mother’s baked custards were always smooth. It’s just those occasional bubbles turning up that I do not understand and the origin of my post.

Apart from the other recipes adding cream and more egg yolks, which would make it richer and definitely a dessert. Versus finding yourself with excess eggs and milk and making something with them. An afternoon or midnight snack, not a dessert.

Come to think of it, I’ve never had anyone else’s baked custard, so I have had no opportunity to analyze a difference. Except for the rare crème brulee in restaurants and that was definitely rich, too sweet, more dense, and in tiny portions. But I usually taste it and say I like mine more.

I never do custard on the stove first either. I don't like recipes that involve lots of extra dirty dishes.

And FWIW, any bubbles don't bother me at all.

Yeah, the only custards I start on the stove are English-style pouring custards, and those stay on the stove, not in the oven.

I'm wondering if possibly lowering the temp a bit on your bain marie might help. Perhaps the boiling water is setting the bubbles. I usually just use room temperature water (but around here that's 80º most of the year), although I know that's not how it works and rarely see any bubbles. Maybe try hot but not so hot?

Well... actually there are custards cooked entirely in an oven, custards cooked entirely on a cooktop, and custards prepared using both: Confessions of a Custard Snob – Pots De Crème

linnea, I have poured boiling water into a bain marie in the oven without bubbles forming, and I'm assuming your recipe (as you've described it now) is either cool or room temp when you put it in the oven (from the milk). Perhaps as mentioned above you are incorporating bubbles as you beat it prior to putting in the oven? Do you actually see baked in air pockets when you slice/spoon your finished custard? Truthfully, without knowing your recipe, it's difficult to answer as to why you've got bubbles.

Hm... The only custards I've made that aren't started on the stove are quiche, and bread pudding. And pumpkin desserts. The ones that are only done on the stove end up as something else like pastry filling or ice cream.

2Many, can you jump ahead to the answer of why start a baked custard on the stove? I figured it was so it would draw together and make that custardy transition first, and it wouldn't have that wateriness that sometimes shows up, but I don't know if that's right.

Now I'm wondering what the baking dish is made of?

I use Pyrex myself, mostly.

Plllog, the recipe I have for Portuguese egg tarts has one cook the custard on the stove top, cool it then fill the tart shells before baking. Thinking about it, I’m guessing it’s to stop the pastry getting soggy. From memory it’s the same deal with galaktoboureko, a Greek custard slice. Egg tart pastry is kind of like puff pastry, and galaktoboureko uses phyllo, so maybe the type of pastry makes the difference in needing the custard to be not liquid.

Thanks, Colleen. I've only ever put raw custard in regular pie crust. What you say makes great sense. In fact, I think that's what I was kind of feeling for before. The pie crust on a quiche absorbs the small amount of excess water.

I make that......and call it flan.
Milk is scalded and cooled before making custard and yeast rolls...scalding does something to the protein in the milk and makes it more tender.
How are you mixing your custard? and do you immediately pour it into the pan and bake? Or do you allow it to sit?
My grandmother taught me that when making a custard pie to use a spoon for the final mixing of ingredients, so as not to introduce bubbles. That's how you get that lovely glossy top on a pumpkin custard pie and the smooth top on a custard. If you must use a beater....let the mix sit to dissipate the bubbles before you bake it. I mix mine in the blender which incorporates minimal air and let it sit for a few minutes before pouring into the dish to bake.

The recipe I linked to above uses cold water around the custard. It's absolutely foolproof as are all of her recipes. You start on the stove as you're making custard. Then baking it over the lovely caramel.

“2Many, can you jump ahead to the answer of why start a baked custard on the stove? I figured it was so it would draw together and make that custardy transition first, and it wouldn't have that wateriness that sometimes shows up”

Plllog, I’m smiling as I type this – I’ve always considered you to be the Alton Brown of the GW CF! You’re the one who scours the internet, finding the why’s, and wherefore’s : ) Alton Brown I am not. I just do as I read! However, I do think you stated above the closest reason and best answer I could give above.

Ever not scald your milk when making quiche? I have, accidentally. And without remembering before I’d eaten it, I thought something was very off on taste and texture. I found this article that best explains my reasoning for cook-stirring and baking custards when a recipe calls for it: “Should I scald my milk when making quiche or custard?”… the short answer in this article is “…because a baker and chef like Thomas Keller tells me to.” That works for me : )

I still don’t know what linnea’s recipe is (other than something beloved her Grandmother made), given that no ingredients are mentioned other than caramelized sugar, milk and eggs, with no proportions listed. I’m guessing flan, aka crème caramel. Crème caramel often calls for whole milk, not cream.

I may not wish to ‘mess’ with some T&T techniques (like both stovetop and oven cooking some of my custard recipes), but I learned from Islay, one can make improvements with some techniques – my chocolate pot de cremes are far better when cooked in a sous vide!

I've never scalded milk for quiche. None of my recipes suggests it. Mind you, I use very little milk, mostly if not all cream. Texture is wonderful :-)

why not IP it ... ten minutes, no hassle. Manual; high setting. Custard goes in separate container/s on trivet. Water in bottom of IP. Note: If you use a 4-cup pyrex measuring cup, 20 minutes. slow release. put several cups of water in the IP to insulate the pyrex on the sides ...

edited 30_march to add the 4-cup pyrex

Ingredients

• 3 eggs lightly beaten
• ⅓ cup sugar
• 2 cups milk
• ¼ teaspoon ground nutmeg

LOL, 2Many! I do want to know why. When I was tiny, like many children, I'd ask my father why about just about everything. And if it wasn't the proverbial, "How high is up?" he knew the answer, or where to find it. He was teaching me about refraction when I was 5. I think I wanted to know why the sky was blue. He'd get up during dinner and get an encyclopedia volume or other reference rather than leaving a concrete question unanswered. So looking it up is ingrained in me. In college, I had an argument with a biochemistry major over the nature of a hangover. I went to the library, and found books with the answers (and I was right! Which wasn't really the point: I also learned a lot more about what alcohol does in the body). I asked you because I thought you'd acquired that info along with your mastery of custard.

I wonder if scalding the milk also reduces the water?

I generally use cream or evaporated milk for quiche and don't scald. The really glorious Julia Child quiche just has XXX cream. :) I make it for a special occasion about every five years. :)

I believe that the source of bubbles in flan, pots de creme, or any baked custard are from the initial beating. I'd recommend beating the eggs just to blend and after that try not to incorporate air when adding the sugar and cream or milk. You can cover the tops of the baking dish with any sort of a lid (even a sheet pan or foil) to keep the surface more tender---so it steams more than bakes.

It should not be necessary to scald cream or even milk for quiche. I think the scalding step might go back to pre-pasturization days.

You may want to partially precooked custard for a pie filling to decrease baking time and help prevent a soggy crust. I would not be surprised if a sweet custard takes longer to set than one without sugar, and maybe that's why I don't scald cream for quiche.

Why would you heat anything before you make a quiche? I don't see any reason. Furthermore, milk? No, cream. Yum.

Not much of a dessert/sweets lover but adore custards. I just assumed, on the molecular level, that heating/warming in advance of the oven helps with incorporating all the ingredients, especially sugars and advance 'blooming' of any fragrant addings like herbs, vanilla. Going into a pre-heated oven warm in a warm water bath seems to make sense for low and slow cooking. Evenly setting the custard inside as well as the edge area of the cups.

The only things I'm heating before making a quiche are partially baking the crust and cooking veggies.

I haven't had baked custard since about 5 years old when grandma made it..so good. Baked custard is highly recommended by my nutritionist as good form of protein for me right now. I of course am unable at this time make it but a small family bakery in town made me 4 on Thursday morning. They just came out of the oven when hubs picked them up so I knew they were fresh. Cooled on the way home and put in frig. Are they still good at 2 days? I did eat 2 of them so far and OH MY so perfectly prepared. Pure silk in the mouth. I just need to be extra careful I don't eat anything....not fresh and I'm unsure how long egg custard keeps in the frig. Thank you all.

linnea56, would love to have your grandmother's recipe to make the baked custard for Easter Dinner. Would you mind sharing it, please.

Mammapink, I'm sure your custards are just fine to eat.

Mamapinky, I do understand you need to be very careful now with foods. I feel safe in saying it'd be fine to eat fresh made custard, that's been refrigerated, 3 days after baked. The only real issue would be if the custard wasn't cooked with raw eggs, and if it's a good texture, it's been cooked enough for your safety. Sure glad to hear custard is something you enjoy and can find locally : )

For everyone asking why anyone pre-heats the milk/cream on the stove - Scalding first stretches out the chains of milk proteins, resulting in a silkier texture.