This is absolutely a DIY project.

So you live in NorCal somewhere north of Redding, right? (sorry but I'm a California purist. If you say you live in NorCal you more than likely live more like the Frisco area east through Sac'to (and I know both terms are despised)). You might be closer to Los Angeles than Oregon. But anyway...

We really need to know which community you live in. Appropriate grass for the Bay area is completely inappropriate for the Sacramento area.

Drought resistance only refers to the ability of a grass to come back from the dead if you have to let it die. Bermuda is the master of that feature. Need to know where you live, though. There are other options for dry areas away from the sea breeze.

How big is the entire yard you're irrigating? 600 square feet needs only a small sprinkler and a hose. You can get very good water timers for a hose.

yes, this will be an easy job,,,600 s.f. is nothing. i re-did that a few months back, just called a sod company and had a couple of pallets delivered. once you figure out the sod you are going to use, just call around and see how much it will be to get delivered. not sure in CA, but in FL when i was ordering, the pallets were 400 s.f. about. all you need is a cart to move them around. others here will help you with selection and prep work, but the actually install should only be an hour or two. very easy. BTW sod here is around $200 a pallet, probably more in CA...but a quote of $4k to install??? wow.

I live in Nor Cal. I am interested in drought resistant sod. My local nursery does not sell it, they gave me literature from their sod supplier, there were no drought resistant sod varieties in the supplier's brochure.

Sod supplier was in the Stockton area.

Where have you found drought resistant sod?

Where do you live? NorCal is not close enough to help you.

If you are asking me where I live, Redwood City, nursery was Wegmans.

please do not suggest Bermuda, it goes dormant in my area in the winter.

The OP is planning to use drought resistant sod, I would like to find some.

Hi all. Thanks for your help! We live in the Oakland Hills, on the east-facing side of the hill (plenty of direct sunlight). We'd love some recommendations for sod and/or sod dealers.

Also, here is the plan we've drawn up. Any feedback welcome!

1. Rent roto-tiller to till soil.

2. Lay topsoil.

3. Install backflow protection on hose spout.

4. Lay RainBird 32ETI irrigation system.

5. Lay sod.

We figure we'll also need to buy a carpet knife, rake, and lawn roller. Anything else? Anything to look out for as we go?

Again, thank you all so much! Doing this ourselves would be a very big deal.

OK I won't use the B-word, but it's still a solid choice for your climate & I'd rather my grass go dormant in the winter than dry up like an old sponge every single summer & need replacing when the local sports fields & golf courses are at their best.

You can rent a lawn roller locally & a machete will be much easier on your back than a carpet knife. Skip the tiller, it will only cause levelling problems down the road.

We would love to skip the tiller, but want to be sure it doesn't undercut our goal. The dirt there now is very compacted and not topsoil, just filler. Do you really think we can skip tilling? Also, thanks for the lawn roller & machete tip! Also, we're still trying to narrow in on a sod type. Will check out Bermuda but would also like a mow-free or infrequent mow option, needs to take some wear from our children. TY again!

Margo,

Reading your question, I thought you had found drought resistant sod.

There is no locally available drought resistant sod. Drought tolerant sod is available, Bermuda.

There is a sod farm close to Isleton that grows Bermuda.

Due to the weight and perishableness of sod, I recommend sourcing it locally. The retailer will order it, they may only get deliveries once or twice a week. The retailer may offer delivery for a charge. 600' is about 1.5 pallets.

For ground preparation, I follow Sunset Magazine's recommendations. The magazine used to be local to me.

I would rather pay to water fescue than have bermuda.

Okay there's plenty going on with the original poster. Jim Mat, could you please hold onto the urge to help the original poster sort this out. If you want to see what happens, fine. If you have additional questions after your across the bay neighbor gets what will likely be identical advice, then please start a new topic. Your opinions may be (seem to be) completely different from the OP. We would like to keep on topic with the OP and not bounce back and forth in a thread. I hope we can help you both at once, but your interjections have confused me already.

1. NEVER ROTOTILL IN PREPARATION FOR A LAWN. Why? Because when you till, the tiller bounces up with every rock, root, or dry spot in the soil and it digs deep with every sandy or wet spot in the soil. The end result is the profile of firm ground at the bottom undulates. When you level the top over an undulating profile, eventually (3 years later) the soil will settle down to the profile of the undulations leaving you with a progressively bumpier surface, month by month, for 36 months. You'll hate yourself.

2. Never bring in topsoil unless you have a low spot that holds water after a rain. Why? Because topsoil always changes the drainage. If you already have good drainage, then adding topsoil will make it worse. In the worst case the rain will back up into your house. Or a worse worst case would be if your actions cause the rain to back up into your neighbor's house. You could end up buying his house from him. Instead of adding more soil, fix the soil you already have. If you bring in new topsoil, then you'll have to fix that, so let's just fix what you have. Start immediately by doing two things. Spray it with any clear shampoo at a rate of 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. Adding a surfactant will allow moisture to penetrate much MUCH deeper into the soil. This has all sorts of benefits based on creating a more favorable biological environment of moisture and temperature at deeper depths of the soil. Secondly, visit your local feed store to get some stuff. You're looking for soybean meal, corn meal, alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow), corn gluten meal, or Milorganite. These animal feeds are the active ingredients in modern organic fertilizers. They will feed the microbes in your soil. Those guys work wonders to improve the health of your soil. If you want to make them work better and correct the chemistry of your soil, then send a sample to Logan Labs in Ohio. Post the results of their $25 test here on this forum and you'll get $250 worth of advice from Morpheuspa. He'll tell you what you need to apply, why, precisely how much, when, how often, and where to find the supplies. Unless it has been poisoned, this approach will fix almost any soil from sand to clay. Most of the problems with soil are salt imbalances (between sodium, potassium, magnesium, and calcium). The UC Davis labs cannot provide the same testing at this price.

So skip steps 1 and 2. The rest of the steps are fine. When you trench for underground pipe, all the soil from the trench gets put back into the hole or mounded up on top. If you level it all out then in 3 years when the soil has settled you'll have visible low spots along the pipe trenches. Ask me how I know this.

Here's the deal about watering turf grass. It all needs the same amount. That amount is almost always a function of the air temperature. Where you live you should only be watering once a month even in the summer. Here's something I wrote a few months ago to answer this important issue. Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall. So living in the Bay area y'all will practically never need to water as long as you water deeply every time.

All that applies to turf grass. I don't think God intended certain varieties of grass to be turf grass, but we have selected some. Bermuda, St Augustine, Kentucky bluegrass, rye grass, zoysia and the turf type tall fescues are the most popular. All these grasses need an inch of water periodically as indicated above. The hybrid bermudas are more of a mutated wild bermuda. They look and act very little alike. The TIF varieties of bermuda are used all across the south with great success. They are only available as a sod. All the seeded varieties of bermuda are varieties of common bermuda. It's the common bermuda that gives bermuda the bad reputation. However, there are many other grasses which I refer to as prairie grasses. These have never been tamed for lawns, but some of them make perfectly good lawns as long as you have full sun and don't get too rambunctious on them. Here's a picture of a prairie grass lawn in Salt Lake City from many years ago...

Thanks to bpgreen for posting this picture (after I begged and begged). He mixed some of the wheatgrasses with blue grama and strawberry clover for his lawn. Even in the arid Salt Lake area, he does not water until about June and then only waters once a month. I believe he mows once a month when the seed heads become too tall. Unsightly seed heads is about the only problem with prairie type grasses. Buffalo is another one, although there is a UC Verde variety that gets a lot of attention. I believe it was developed at UC Davis, but I could be wrong. The Verde I believe spreads and fills reasonably quickly. Check with someone local to be sure. The only trick to making a lawn out of the wheatgrass/blue grama/clover is to get the seed close enough to fill and make it dense. But that looks like a perfectly acceptable lawn to me. If you don't like clover, leave it out. Clover stains clothes when you play on it. Wheatgrass has hundreds of varieties adapted to different parts of the country/world. Check with your county extension agent to find something for the Bay area. It could be any of them. These grasses will not need water nearly as often as I have discussed above. One issue with them is they are bunch type grasses which do not spread to fill in thin spots caused by activity. For example if you set up home plate and pitcher's mound in the same spots all the time, they will never have grass on them.

Did you have an above the ground pool that you're seeding? If so there are some common issues. One is the soil really can become compacted with the moisture and the weight of the water on top. Readers here know that I never suggest that someone do a core aeration. In your case I might make an exception. The shampoo usually works for most cases of hard soil, but if you have truly compacted soil, pulling the plugs out might be what you need to open it up and get things started. Second issue is with the low spot. If you have a low spot surrounded by higher soil, you might need more topsoil. Filling a low spot is a valid reason for more topsoil. A third issue is with the health of the soil. As I mentioned organic fertilizer can help. You might also apply 1/4 inch of compost. This is something else I never suggest, but above the ground pools are a special situation. It doesn't take much compost to kick start the soil biology. The compost gets it started and the organic fertilizer and deep watering establishes a high microbial population.

That's nice, but they don't sell that sod here.

dchall_san_antonio, thank you so much! Everything you say makes a lot of sense, and makes it sound like this project should be much easier than we thought. It's so great to hear from someone with obvious experience doing just what we're doing. Here's the new plan:

1. We're going to send soil samples to Logan Labs today, and then post our results when we have them.

2. We'll also start looking for those fertilizing sources that you mentioned. I assume that those go down just before the sod: is that right?

3. And which comes first, whatever we need as a result of the lab testing, or the shampoo?

4. We're checking out those sod varieties now.

5. In the meantime, we'll get that backflow thing installed.

6. When the time comes, we'll put down the RainBird and then the sod. Just to clarify: your recommendation is to dig trenches for the sprinklers and then put that dirt back on top of them before laying the sod, right?

And one more: what is in our backyard right now is just filler, not any kind of soil. It looks like a mix of sand, dirt, and small bits of concrete. That's ok?

Again, many, many thanks!

PS to answer one of your earlier questions, the pool was an in-ground pool that we had filled in. That's why the dirt there may not be the highest-quality dirt.

Hey Margo,

We are close, I'm 10 miles south of Stockton. dc has provided me with tons of great info for my backyard lawn renovation. I had problems sourcing sod (St Augustine & Bermuda). Make sure you speak with the sod farm directly if/when a retailer says they can get you a product. Also ask if you can visit their farm to see the product before purchase. When I did this I found out that the particular grass types that I wanted were really not available. What I was being offered was not the actual product I was looking for. The only farm that I found with the cultivar I wanted was near LA. I had to choose to do start project from seed. Since you have a wider variety of grass types to choose from, you may have better results.

As far as soil amendments go, my local feed stores couldn't really help. Seems as though they have really turned into dog & cat food suppliers unfortunately. But they gave me good info on where to get the stuff I needed. I got corn meal ($14.50/25 lbs) bulk ordered online from Winco. At Tractor Supply I was able to get cracked corn ($10/50 lbs) & alfalfa pellets ($12/40 lbs). Home Depot was my source for Milorganite. No one place had everything unfortunately.

The RainBird 32ETI system you chose may be overkill for 600 sq/ft. The included rotors (32SA) cover a very large area. Just 1 of those rotors will easily cover as 600 sq/ft area (if it's circular). If you can provide a picture of your yard & some measurements, that would help let you know how many sprinkler rotors you actually need. Just to clarify, you don't have any irrigation system currently installed anywhere on your property? I just completely redid my entire backyard irrigation system. It was very easy. The hardest part was trenching.

I'm no expert by any means. If I can do it, you & your husband can also. dc, realjake & Morpheus (he's coming) + others really know their stuff and provide great motivation.

I am in the Bay Area (south of you in the Santa Cruz Mountains/foothills) We are just about to put down sod in 2 areas of our yard - 500 sq/ft in our back yard and 300 in our front yard.

I did a ton of research on the different sod companies that are available here in Northern California/Bay Area. I also compared the different turf options that are available and compared that to our previous experiences with different sod and bermuda grass. Below is a bit of a summary of each type and what we liked and didn't like

Dwarf Fescues/Blends:

We have experience with Greenfield Turf "Enduro Dwarf Tall Fescue Turf"
which we had in our back yard for a couple of years before we put in a
in ground pool - funny that you took out a pool, and we put one in! It worked pretty well and was pretty easy to keep looking nice year round.

Based on that experience, and discussions here with the helpful posters, we have decided to stick with a fescue based lawn. For our new lawns we almost selected Westcoaster Tall Fescue from West Coast Turf Company - which will deliver to our area. However, we are waiting for our landscaper to install a sod from Delta Bluegrass called Bolero Plus Sod. It is a 90% fescue, 10 % BG blended turf that our landscaper raves about...

No Mow Turf:

We had this type of sod turf installed in two locations when we built our home in 2010. It did well for the first year or so, but it wasn't a no maintenance turf at all - letting it grow out and flop over didn't look good to us, so I mowed it - which meant it was just as much trouble as regular grass. In addition we planted it in an area that was just too hot, and has too much sun exposure so the fine bladed grass really struggled when cut and treated like a regular lawn. I think it would work better in a cooler area, and/or with more shade and less mowing.

Bermuda:

Both of our front yard lawns were completely taken over by bermuda - because of the higher heat, our recent drought, and not understanding how to properly take care of fescue grass (it was clumping and thinning after 1 year which allowed the bermuda a chance to grow in the thin spots).

Based on our experience with the bermuda that took over, we didn't like that it turned brown from November to April - and it needed to be mowed really short to look nice. We nuked the bermuda with Roundup...

We looked at the UC Verde Buffalo grass but need the lawn to grow right up next to a fence and in an area with partial shade from an oak tree.

Did you remove the pool or just fill it in?

Since Bermuda grows so we'll there, perhaps you should make a lawn of it? It's easily overseeded in the winter to keep it green. You won't hurt it's feelings one bit doing that. And nuked is a strong word montel, it'll be back shortly.

seriously, I have sprayed glyphosate on my lawn at least six times since Spring. The bermuda keeps coming up. Sprayed the whole yard x3 & spot sprayed x3. I have used Roundup, HDX, and OSH brands & this stuff keeps chugging along. So as reeljake & dc suggested, I'm gonna just plant bermuda. Without question it will thrive here. All I have to really focus on is making it look nice.

Regarding Bermuda - part of the reason it took over our lawn is due to our recent drought and not watering the lawn much if at all - that let bermuda take hold. I have though about using Bermuda as our new lawn choice, but our normal weather and with some watering I think a fescue lawn will do better year round

The only way fescue will do better for you in a dry sunny climate is if you own the sod farm. Then it's $$$ for you! For perspective, it's usually used as a shade grass.

Hi all, thank you all SO much for the great advice and guidance--we're really going to do this! We got the results back from Logan Lab, and I posted a separate thread hoping for advice here. Please wish us luck! and if you have advice, we would be VERY appreciative.

I lost track of this. Thanks for the bump and the soil test on the other topic.

Here's the new plan:

1. We're going to send soil samples to Logan Labs today, and then post our results when we have them.

Done. Thanks. Morpheus will be a lot of help to you.

2. We'll also start looking for those fertilizing sources that you
mentioned. I assume that those go down just before the sod: is that
right?

Organic fertilizer goes down on top of everything. It needs to be on the surface, not buried.

3. And which comes first, whatever we need as a result of the lab testing, or the shampoo?

Shampoo any time you want.
:

:

6. When the time comes, we'll put down the RainBird and then the sod.
Just to clarify: your recommendation is to dig trenches for the
sprinklers and then put that dirt back on top of them before laying the
sod, right?

Yes. Mound up the trenches with all the old soil. Try not to scuff it away when the sod goes down. Make sure all the sod installers know that.

And one more: what is in our backyard right now is just filler, not
any kind of soil. It looks like a mix of sand, dirt, and small bits of
concrete. That's ok?

It's soil. It's your soil, and it's going to be a lot better soil once the chemistry is corrected and the grass gets growing. I love pure white sand as the base for my yard. The white sand in my old yard looked black with all the organic matter in it, but when I dropped it into water, the white sand fell immediately to the bottom and the black organic stuff floated.

Normally I wouldn't disagree with the recommendation not to till. Your soil test shows that Mg is over 600ppm and 28% of CEC/TEC and OM is middling low. That's going to make for very tight, poorly draining, root resistant soil. As this is new fill, there is no existing soil structure to destroy and you already face settling issues. Nothing to lose from tilling at this stage and much to gain. The best way to counteract the affects of high Mg and improve soil structure is to till in FINISHED compost using a rear tine tiller with depth adjustment at the rate of 1:3.

Hey Margo,

Did you get your irrigation system yet?

If not, I have an almost complete system you can have. I have an orbit timer, 8 sprinkler valves, (~20 ft) 18/7 wire, numerous 2 & 4 inch pop-up sprinklers, and 1 or 2 32SA sprinklers. We will be headed to the zoo in the next 2-3 wks & can drop off any items that you want. My only request is for an OPEN - PUBLIC spot (no offense).

Yardtractor: thanks for the specific information! Having to till is a major bummer, but if it's what needs to be done, we'll do it!

Hawksster: Wow! That is so generous. We live right by the zoo, so we'd be happy to meet there if that works for you. Just let us know how you'd like to arrange a time. (Not sure about posting out email addresses here!)

Hard to define "need". It's a means to a destination. You can still have a very attractive lawn without counteracting the Mg by my suggested method. There are other methods. They are slower, but they can get you close to the same place. Wait until morpheuspa has an opportunity to read and give recs on your test and see what he recommends.

I think morpheus was getting burned out and may be taking a break. Hopefully not a long one, though!

Wow! Now I have a headache. I went down the rabbit hole. A 30 sec internet search turned into hours of reading & research. Locke, Some Thoughts; Bundle Theory, Skepticism, Hume, etc. - way too much - deep down the hole I went. I was saved by my son wanting me to tuck him into bed.

Anyway... my super, secret email address: hawksster@msn.com

Hi Yardtractor,

If you're still around, I had a quick question. We're hoping to move forward soon, and were just wondering how much compost should we till into the soil. E.g. are we talking an inch thick? 3 inches? 6? etc.

Thanks again,

Margo

1. It must be FINISHED compost only. If it is not high quality, FINISHED compost, do NOT use it. Sphagnum Peat Moss, not Peat may be used as an alternative.

2. If you do not have access to a rear tine tiller with depth adjustment. I recommend that you do not attempt this. You need to move slowly to insure that the FINISHED compost is mixed in thoroughly before moving forward.

3. For every 3" of till depth, add no more than 1" of FINISHED compost. More is NOT better.

Sorry for the delay and good luck.

Where you live, etc makes a diff, but Wow Wow Wow. I laid 1/4 acre all my myself of st Augustine sod like pieces of carpet squares, water, the end! I have gorgeous lawn. No wonder people get intimidated when considering DIY with kilometric discussions like this one--I'd be paralyzed w/fear of doing wrong thing. I do understand sharing wisdom is in good faith but it is not rocket science.

Finished compost is a product that smells incredibly good - like soil from a forest floor after a spring rain. If it smells sour, moldy, rank, acrid, dank, maneury, or otherwise off, it needs to continue composting. There is a certain fungus that causes the good smell, and it only comes in at the very very end of the composting process. Finished compost is room temperature. If it has any kind of elevated temperature, then it's not finished. Also you want to have it screened through a 1/4-inch screen. Otherwise you'll get twigs and sticks that will really mess up the tilling.

@ bossyvossy, I don't want to speak for Margo (or anyone else) but it has been my experience that when given good information most people do better. They can further research details and come to their own conclusions. You are correct, it's not rocket science, but there is so much misinformation out there. I think that is what leads to people being intimidated when attempting DIY projects. When people get GOOD information they excel, they dig deeper into the subject, then find their comfort level. Everyone is different but I have rarely found people who were fearful of moving forward after receiving good information/advice.

I agree, personally the more information I have the more comfortable I feel doing something new.

this is where I'm coming from. You teach a kid his ABCs, and vowels. If you threw in on the same lesson, verb tenses, phonetics, sentence structure, etc, the kid would stare blankly, retain nothing and go play with doll, dog or Gameboy. If this weren't true, then we wouldn't have elementary, jr and high schools. Stages of learning, stages of learning, that's what works. I know OP is not a kid, but I think we do a tremendous disservice when we throw in all this knowledge that may intimidate, confuse, discourage newbie. Why not present the data in most practical fashion and let newbie go from there. Sometimes I wonder if some people want the world to know how much they know vs. truly helping a newbie get going. Not accusing anybody here, just wondering. It is not more important to assure them they can do it rather than telling them where, when and how to use a sod roller???? Which BTW, you don't need. first time you run your lawn mower on new lawn, it will do necessary compacting or pressing or whatever you want to call it.

"this is where I'm coming from. You teach a kid his ABCs, and vowels.
If you threw in on the same lesson, verb tenses, phonetics, sentence
structure, etc, the kid would stare blankly, retain nothing and go play
with doll, dog or Gameboy. If this weren't true, then we wouldn't have
elementary, jr and high schools. Stages of learning, stages of
learning, that's what works. I know OP is not a kid, but I think we
do a tremendous disservice when we through in all this knowledge that
may intimidate, confuse, discourage newbie."

The irony of the analogy tickled me, thanks. :)

I fixed it, thanks. danged spell ck

@bossyvossy(TX 9a)

As opposed to other forums where non-alignment to dogma is frowned upon, all opinions are welcome here. People have different communication styles, ideas and areas and levels of knowledge, and everyone is welcome to contribute to the best of their abilities. Thank you for sharing your concerns and feedback, I'm sure contributing members will give them the consideration they deserve.

I'm just glad to see more traffic, this forum has been pretty slow the last few months

I think understanding more about capillary action is probably important in this situation. If the soil can't draw up the water then why can nylon? My personal gut feeling is even if you could wick up some moisture it wouldn't be enough to matter.

I think you 2 got the threads mixed up, but yes it's about keeping open spaces within the soil. Clay is notorious for accepting water slowly, but when processed into a different form, calcined clay, it accepts & holds water very well in the pore spaces. I know that's not a direct comparison to the nylon thing, but I enjoy conversations like this. If it worked, a new business may be born--Look at the Koro system being used throughout the sports field management world. Some dutch guy got peeved at his soccer fields being overrun with Poa & created a whole new way to renovate sports fields around the world. http://www.dryject.com/ is another example, but even more relevant to the water penetration discussion.

I'm just glad to see more traffic, this forum has been pretty slow the last few months

The only thing is they need to change the name of the forum to "What's this thing in my grass?" :o)