Janalyn, yes! I associate Anne of Green Gables with childhood summers rather than school, but I had all the books and only just gave them away last year. I loved Anne.

The Lord of the Rings were defining books for me. Funny, I don't think to include Tolkien among Dickens, Hemingway, Twain, etc., but of course he should be. Perhaps it's just the difference in genre. Sci-fi and Fantasy aren't often given the respect they deserve, even by those of us who are fans.

Would Asimov's I, Robot or his Foundation books count as classics? I read them as a teenager and was fascinated by his ideas. Reading them again as an adult I thought he wasn't necessarily a brilliant writer but was an excellent storyteller and quite a visionary.

Catcher in the Rye was so hyped as a book, that when I finally read it in high school I was completely underwhelmed. Perhaps when it was first published it was shocking and new, but by 1979, my peers and I found it to be one long whine by a rather unpleasant little boy. Interestingly, my DD had to read this two years ago for sophomore English and could not understand why it was considered a classic.

I was never a fan of "Jane Eyre" nor of "Wuthering Heights". My girlhood favorites were "The Secret Garden", "Tom Sawyer", and "Little Women."

In high school, we were given reading assignments: "Tess of the D'Urbervilles", "Gone with the Wind" (this was Atlanta!),and "Giants in the Earth" by O.E. Rolvaag. This Norwegian-American writer made the greatest impression on me, depicting the harsh life of European immigrants during the settlement of the American frontier. When I re-read it many years later, I still found it powerfully evocative.

Oddly, I never read any of the "Anne of Green Gables" series until about 4 years ago. What a discovery! I learned how much I had missed by not knowing quirky Anne.

I continue to be fascinated by some later "classics", such as Alan Paton's "Too Late the Phalarope", and Albert Camus' "The Stranger."

I'm always amazed when I meet someone who was not a Jane Eyre fan--my own daughter was not--unfathomable to me. But I sure can understand woodnymph's other selections. :)

I'd forgotten about Tom Sawyer--partly, I suppose, because I never literally read it. My older sister was bedridden for a year when I was in the 3rd grade. I used to race home from school to LISTEN to the latest Tom Sawyer episode my mom was reading to my sick sister. And it evidently made a big impact on me, although I don't remember it at all. She said that the Injun Joe in the cave episode frightened me so badly that I had nightmares every night for the next month! I don't remember anything about that--nor the ending of Tom Sawyer. Guess I blotted it all out of my mind.

I guess that novel qualifies as one of my solicited ones that had a lasting influence on you, right? LOL

As for Rolvaag, I grew up in Rolvaag country but didn't discover his novel until I was about 30--some of the descriptions of how oppressive the empty horizon of prairie country was to the early pioneers have always stuck with me--powerful! Actually I grew up hearing stories of scandinavians hanging themselves in the barn were not that uncommon. And when they retired and moved to town, they did it in their garages. I've always wondered about that trait.

Never could get the popularity of Catcher in the Rye, even read several works by that author wondering about the popularity. Just never rang my bell, I guess.

Kate

When I was fifteen, we did To Kill A Mockingbird for O-level. Though I enjoyed it, it didn't really resonate with me - I'm not sure I even quite understood what happened at the end until much later. But the other class in our year did Animal Farm - I got hold of a copy and read it in a single sitting. It was my first experience of a book which really affected me - really hit home. I so wanted to be in the other class....

I read and loved many children's classics - Little Women, The Secret Garden, Anne of Green Gables - but I always remember my Enid Blyton books fondly. I liked the Famous Five, the Five Find-Outers (and Buster the dog) and a series all titled 'The Mystery of...' where the main character was a boy in a circus who owned a monkey!
At school I really enjoyed the Shakespeare we studied (The Merchant of Venice, Macbeth and King Lear), but long term RPers will know my life long horror of Thomas Hardy was fostered in high school.
We also studied The Grapes of Wrath (pronounced 'roth' over here *VBG*), Animal Farm and 1984, and these all left an impression on me.
I didn't read P&P or Jane Eyre until I was in my 20s, and while I enjoyed them, I didn't really love them. However, Jennifer Ehrle and Colin Firth made P&P into something special in subsequent re-reads.

Ach! Martin, I usually wished I was 'in the other class' too. The other classes always read more interesting books than the one I was in. I guess it was just that I had to read what was assigned to my class that irked me, not so much the book itself. Later many of the required books I read and loathed became favorites when I could read 'em when I wanted. I would've envied you getting to read To Kill a Mockingbird. I had to read Animal Farm and just did not take to the allegory at all.

Kate, I too grew up in Rolvaag territory, but I didn't want to read about what was in my backyard and people I thought I knew a little too well. I wanted to read about exotic places (like England, heh!) and about people who ate interesting things (anything but hogs and corn) who didn't go around with dour expressions. My Norwegian great-grandmother refused to read Giants in the Earth because, as she put it, "Why should I read something I already know?" Giants was always taught in my high school, and we always complained about it. Later, after I left that part of the world, I read Giants with new eyes...and whew! it's powerful. I had the same feeling about Sinclair Lewis: I didn't like his books until I got some distance from his environs.

Richard III was -- and always will be -- my favorite Shakespeare play. I can still quote great chunks of it. I am thrilled by the recent discovery of what appears to be Richard's bones. I'm a bit nutty about several of WS's plays but I'm more obsessive about the Sonnets.

Don Quixote is my absolute favorite book that I've never finished. I still affectionately call it 'Donkey Hoot', the silly pronunciation my friends and I used. I've been reading it in bits and pieces since 1967.

Jennifer Ehrle and Colin Firth made P&P into something special in subsequent re-reads.

Aha! I think a lot of people might agree with that, astro--or perhaps, fall in love with P&P all over again! Certainly my favorite version!

The Thomas Hardy references interest me. Didn't know he was taught in high school, but one of you hated Tess and another person loved Hardy. I wonder how I would have responded as a teenager--I must have first read it in college or maybe even older than that. I always have mixed feelings about Hardy--but I must admit I've always loved the movie version of Hardy's Far from the Madding Crowd.

friedag--a lifelong project of reading Don Quixote--wow! I love that. Do you know the broadway musical Man of la Mancha? Excellent--and a good way to introduce reluctant readers to the world of Don Quixote.

Any King Arthur material taught in high schools? Or how about F.Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby? If so, did those works impress you favorably?

How about some gothic lit. in high school--mostly Poe, I guess. Did it impress you favorably?

Kate

I read Poe on my own in my junior high years. I think there were one or two short stories and a poem in our reader. Poe was quite popular at the time but I don't know if kids today read Poe or not. My own kids are now through college so I have lost touch with the high school world. Another well-liked author of those years was Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories. I myself did not get interested in reading them until later.

My general impression is that school aged children of today who like to read primarily read contemporary fiction. Some of it is quite good, so that is a not altogether a bad thing. However I don't think they are reading much older fiction, if any. Many school reading lists don't emphasize it, and it is being overlooked. In my opinion that is a loss.

On the other hand I think that skipping Animal Farm, 1984, Brave New World, and Lord of the Flies, four books we read in high school, is not altogether a loss. I loathed each and every one of them, and really, they were a reflection of the political worries of the time.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, I agree with you 100 % on the last four you mentioned. I loathed them too. I read Poe around the same age as you, maybe even a little younger (yes, I was a bit of a copycat to my sister LOL).

Our father read us the Swiss Family Robinson when I was around 5; I don't remember much from it except that I was sad about the donkey being swallowed by the huge snake.

I got my King Arthur stories from a small newspaper-type of booklet that my older cousin's English penpal mailed to her, as well as those of Robin Hood and others though I don't remember any Sherlock Holmes. I believe my love of England stems from those booklets. My cousins lived across the county from us, and I used to go spend a couple of weeks with them in the summers from the time I was nine. They were all three older than I, and I adored them for including me in their escapades and their book reading.

I remember many, but two stand out in my mind. In 7th or 8th grade we studied Shakespeare. The teacher was excellent, and the books she chose helped out with explanations of the words and phrases. I still love it and always try to attend a yearly Shakespeare festival when visiting friends during the summer. The other was Hermann Hesse in High School. Demain was required and I was so taken with it I read several others by him. The teacher found out and was impressed, causing me to get the title of "nerd" from my fellow students for the rest of the semester.

My parents bought us a set of children's classics called the Companion Library - they were twin novels: each volume contained 2 books, and you turned it upside down to read the other novel. It was from this set that I read Black Beauty, Call of the Wild, Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn, Little Women, Little Men, and so on. It was here I also read the Grimms fairy tales where Cinderella's stepsisters lose their eyes rather than being forgiven. That caught my attention, which led to my interest in adaptations and interpretations of fairy tales.

I read a number of classics because of Disney dramatizations and because of the old Classics Illustrated comic books - remember them? That's when I tried Jules Verne and Charles Dickens.

Rosefolly, I was another Poe fan, growing up in the 60's. I can still recite the 1st 5 or 6 verses of The Raven. (In boring meetings at work, I start writing it out and see how far I can get before I forget a line....)

In high school, I liked almost everything assigned, and read several again for enjoyment. (But then, I read my geology textbook again for fun, so maybe I'm just a nerd.) The only real exception was The Catcher in the Rye. Everyone else in my class loved it, but I thought what-his-name a total jerk.

Some of my assigned reading that I still remember as favorites are Conrad's Heart of Darkness, Macbeth, the Inferno, and the short story, The Jilting of Granny Weatherall. I liked the Inferno so much that I read the entire Divine Comedy later.

What we didn't get in school back in the 60-70's were fantasy and science fiction. They weren't considered 'real literature' back then! I started with Verne, then Burroughs, before discovering Heinlein, Asimov and Bradbury.

Cheryl

Here's a Poe story for you. When my son was in 5th grade, the teacher dismissing lunch tables to the playground told the kids that whichever table could identify the snippet of poetry she quoted would be allowed to go outside 5 minutes early. She quoted from "The Raven" and my son's hand immediately shot up and she was quite impressed that he knew who Poe was and could identify the poem. When he recounted this story at dinner that night I asked him if they'd been reading any Poe in school, and how did he know the answer? He said, "Mom, it was on The Simpsons!"

I'm still not sure what to think about that.

I read The Catcher in the Rye shortly after it came out, and I was about 12. It made a strong impression on me. It might have been that back then novels didn't rip into phonies very often. It was refreshing to find one that did.

Another book that made a strong impression on me in my teens was Nectar in a Sieve by Kamala Markandaya.

Readings assigned in school never appealed to me much, but in college I loved E. M. Forster's Howards End and The Plague by Camus.

For those who hate Faulkner, I'm not fond of the Sartoris novels but I agree that the Snopes trilogy is well worth reading. The first Faulkner novel I found tolerable was As I Lay Dying, another one that might appeal to those who haven't been able to tolerate Faulkner.

Another huge fan of Jane Eyre here. It is the one book I can read every year and still thoroughly enjoy. I probably read it first when I was 8 or 10 years old. I also read Wuthering Heights many times as a youth and love it today. On the other hand Jane Austen has never appealed to me much--I'm completely bored by Pride and Prejudice, for example. I don't know why. Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights, on the other hand, have a delicious "bite" to them. Jane's self-command and independence, I think, strongly influenced my girlhood.
I read voraciously as a child and returned time and again to the Little House books. I was a sucker for girl-meets-hardships-and triumphs stories. Interesting thing: there was a newsreport a few days ago by a doctor who confirmed that Mary Ingalls most likely did not go blind from Scarlet Fever (it doesn't cause blindness) but a viral infection (can't remember the long name of it). Laura Ingalls Wilder probably made the Scarlet Fever up as it was better known.

Here in the UK we do nothing but 'classics' (or at least up to the '60's) in English lessons.
I found most of the long tedious classes doing the various books in depth were usually enough to put one off for life; a great pity as over the years we did works by Austen, Bronte, George Eliot . . . all the usual suspects. No 'modern' works and no Dickens (possibly not considered intellectual enough so not on the exam syllabus). Also no non-English ie American works were ever studied.
I did history at College but was always interested in the wide choice of 'modern' English novels read by friends on their course.

I do remember ONE lesson when I was about 13-14 where our young English teacher had to take us with her to watch a film she was showing the senior English class (she would never have trusted us to our own devises), The film was a b and w 1952 production of T S Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral a 'verse drama' about the death of Thomas a Becket at the hands of four knights 'sent' by Henry II.
The teacher had the good sense to spend half an hour explaining the difficult concept of the verse/prose and the whole meaning of Thomas allowing himself to be killed/martyred and whether it was the right act for the wrong reason.
I probably learnt more in that half an hour than I would have done in a term's worth of lessons.

Here is a link that might be useful: Murder in the Cathedral. Early BBC Radio

Gee, veer, I'm glad you had at least ONE good literary experience in school : (
but I must admit that Murder in the Cathedral is awfully heavy-duty even for a college student, not to mention a young teen. You are to be admired for your literary endurance!

But then, kathleen studied Herman Hesse in high school and liked it--that's impressive also!

In the meantime, do go get a copy of Kate Chopin's The Awakening or Zora Neale Hurston's Their Eyes Were Watching God--two great modern American novels featuring strong and interesting heroines. They are also great reads--and a heck of a lot shorter than Middlemarch! But then, I guess everything other than Tolstoy's War and Peace is! LOL

jwttrans--thanks for the recomendations on Faulkner--another heavy-duty author that many American students dread. Or if you'd really like to like Faulkner, try his short stories--much more accessible for many readers. Try "That Evening Sun" or "A Rose for Miss Emily" or "Spotted Horses" or, if you are a little more ambitious, "The Bear"--great environmental story as well as typical Faulkner in many ways.

sheri's story about her kids learning their Poe via The Simpsons (gulp!) reminded of my kids who, decades ago, were impressing the heck out me by their casual and knowing references to Heathcliff. Since they were 8 years apart, I wondered how they both happened to read Wuthering Heights--but then I found out they meant the cartoon cat! What a let-down! LOL

Good ol' Jane Eyre--still riding strong in there, despite a few dissenting voices! : )

Kate

How could I forget reading of King Arthur and Robin Hood, which gave me a fascination with things mediaeval, I believe.

I recall reading "The Great Gatsby" in high school. I still think the paragraph about the "green light" is one of the most magnificent in the English language. For whatever reason, in high school, I became fascinated with the Fitzgeralds and their wild lives and read every biography I could get my hands on.

As for Poe, his poetry was quite popular in my school days, but I never cared for the gloomy, lugubrious themes. It was interesting to visit the Univ. of VA and see Poe's former room where he lodged as a student.

Marita: re: Mary Ingalls and scarlet fever. In Zochert's biography of Laura, which draws heavily from her memoirs, it wasn't scarlet fever that they all caught; I think it was measles, followed in Mary's case by what sounded like a stroke. I liked the biography, which was an affectionate portrait of Laura, but also demonstrates that the Little House books are really fictionalized. For example, between Carrie & Grace was a brother who lived only a few months, and Nellie Olsen is actually an amalgamation of 2 girls, a Nellie Owens and a Genny Masters! For LIW fans, a book I particularly like was "Becoming Laura Ingalls Wilder" which traced how Laura went from a local newspaper columnist to a children's book author. Her daughter Rose basically coached her through the first books, and did a lot of editing.

The other american 'pioneer' books I remember well are Caddie Woodlawn (I finally got my own copy a few years ago and re-read it, and was impressed by the passenger pigeon scene which I'd totally forgotten) and the Little Britches book from Ralph Moody, although it's set in the early 20th century rather than the 19th.

I never paid attention to award winners when I was a kid reading, but I was surprised to discover how many of the most memorable books from my childhood did turn out to be newbery winners: Caddie Woodlawn, Trumpeter of Krakow, Island of the Blue Dolphins, Johnny Tremain....

donnamira, I have very fond memories of
Caddie Woodlawn even though I must have read it as a library book because I never owned it. I probably checked it out repeatedly since my memories of it are so vivid.

Cheryl, I loved all those Newbery winners you mentioned plus a slew more of 'em (The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Call It Courage, Invincible Louisa, Roller Skates...). I didn't catch on to the fact they were award winners for quite a while, but when I did I always looked for that embossed emblem. I eventually outgrew the Newberys in the early 1960s, but picked up on 'em again when I had my own kids. The Trumpeter of Krakow is especially dear to me because it's a multi-generational favorite in my family -- my mother, now 91 years old, loved it when she was a girl, so did my brothers and I, as did my two sons. I wonder if my granddaughter will love it, too. I hope so!

Something that tickles me is how many books and authors that have moved into the "classic" category since I started school nearly sixty years ago. Just thinking...for example, that there was no To Kill a Mockingbird then. A few days ago I heard someone refer to Gone with the Wind as a classic, which of course I think is absolutely true. Ha! Poke in the eye to all those nattering naysayers who thought TKAM and GWTW were 'merely popular'.

As always, when I exaggerate I get myself in trouble. Above I stated that I invariably detested assigned books, but now I remember that I loved Great Expectations and The Great Gatsby. Oh, and I liked A Separate Peace when most of my classmates grumbled about it.

Well, I was steeped with Poe's poetry in utero. My mother gave me the middle name of the 'rare and radiant maiden', but it was "The Bells" that appealed more to me. I drove the whole family crazy with the repetition when I learned it by heart out loud...Of the bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells---To the moaning and the groaning of the bells. When I later recited it to my sons, they adored that part because I would try to go basso profundo. As for Poe's stories...some creeped me out permanently, I'm afraid, although I think I have more than my share of Gothic sensibility. I adored Stoker's Dracula and LeFanu's Carmilla and other stories plus his Uncle Silas. I did a Gothic lit course in college (The Castle of Otranto, The Monk, etc.) and was sick with disappointment until I figured out that this was the stuff Jane Austen was camping up in Northanger Abbey. After that I got a bang out of the whole lot, the more melodramatic the better.

Kate, I'm ashamed to say that I never saw "Man of La Mancha." As much as I love the Don and Sancho, I should've.

friedag, there is a movie version of Man of la Mancha (starring Sophia Loren and some well-known male star that I no longer remember). Don't know how good it is because I never saw it, but you might be able to rent it.

However, if you ever have a chance to see a live performance of it, don't miss it. Absolutely wonderful. I saw it in live production at a university production and then performed by a traveling Broadway company. In live production, it is terrific!

Kate

Frieda, I have a copy of Roller Skates as well as Caddie Woodlawn, both old and worn, but I never loved RS the way I did Caddie.

Kate, I think I may have been exposed to Hardy when too young. I had a brilliant English teacher in the last two years of high school, and she loved Hardy. He was obviously on the reading list, but at 15, going on 16, I probably wasn't ready for it. I know we read Tess of the Bloody D'Urbervilles and another in my final year, but I can't for the life of me recall which it was. The Return of the Native is the most likely candidate. Probably I didn't read it at all, but just skimmed through. I found Hardy to be tedious and boring in the amount of description he included. I was thrilled as an adult to find I wasn't the only one - Monty Python have an excellent sketch called Novel Writing which backs me up. Since it is based on the game of cricket, it may not make a lot of sense to Americans.
It is interesting that I enjoy Dickens though.

Sheri, my sons regularly tell me they have learnt all manner of cultural references from the Simpsons :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Novel Writing by Monty Python

Kath, your video is blocked unless I subscribe. I am able. however, to watch a variety of ads!

I get ALL my cultural understanding of Americans from The Simpsons. Is it possible that some of them are exaggerated or incorrect? Surely it cannot be so. We do love that show; especially the older editions.

I don't know if they would qualify as "classics", but in the deep South as I was growing up, the "Little Colonel" books were fairly popular. I should imagine by now they are out of print, as they depicted a vanished way of life, and were somewhat non PC.

As an American, I had no access to the Enid Blyton books. It was only through an English friend in Virginia that I learned of this series.

Vee and Kath, we joke that the kids understand all our 80s and 90s cultural references solely because of The Simpsons. They picked up some history and literature there, too. It's evidently an education in and of itself.

Speaking of "classics" ... how about Harry Potter? Do you think it will stand the test of time, or will my grandkids wonder what all the fuss was about? My kids -- 13 and 17 -- and their friends view these books and movies as the be-all and end-all.

Kath, Dickens can be enjoyable or agonizing. I thoroughly enjoyed Great Expectations. I rather liked Oliver Twist and A Tale of Two Cities. I made it through David Copperfield. I could barely endure Little Dorrit. Since I have been on a steady downhill trend in my Dickens reading, I have decided to set him aside, possibly for good.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, for better Dickens, try Bleak House--very long novel with two separate plots- the one in the slums of London is unbelievably powerful!

Or some readers like Hard Times--for its exposure of the abuses of the school system and overbearing teachers, etc. This is a shorter Dickens'novel.

Either one is better than Little Dorrit. Bleak House is often considered his absolute masterpiece.

If you read any of them, let us know what you think--OK?

Kate

Gadzooks! Maybe the reason why I remember the 1980s and '90s as a cultural wasteland is I never watched The Simpsons enough to figure out what was going on during those times. I call 'em the "nothing decades," as in nothing really momentous in the world happened. I know that's probably not true...it just seems that way to me after living through the 1960s and '70s. The eighties and nineties were very interior oriented for me since I was busy having babies and raising them.

Sheri, I imagine the present generation will always consider Harry Potter with great fondness and, yeah, think of the series as 'classic'. It seems every generation thinks what happened in their formative years (about age 10 through the early 20s) as the most memorable -- the apex, the epitome, the best. I never got into Pottermania because my kids were too old, but if my granddaughter shows interest I may become the biggest 'Potterhead' ever. But I figure something else will come along for her generation to call their own and Potter, though maybe still considered good, will be old hat.

Carolyn, I'd take Caddie over Roller Skates, too. Caddie's up there in my top 5.

Woodnymph, I love the Little Colonel books. I only had the first one but bought the rest of them second hand from a woman who lives in Peewee Valley (home of the setting for the LC and The Locusts house) for my daughter for birthdays and other gifts. She has them all, plus the Mary Ware books. Some of them are not in good condition, but all the words are there.

Doublin Bay, we had a discussion on Dickens' books last year. If you are interested, you can probably find it in in the older pages.

I had to delve deep into my memory bank to recall which classics I read at school. Like Vee, I had only British authors to study, I think "Little Women" was the only American book I read as my mother loved it and so we had a copy of it.
We read "Treasure Island" in our 10th year or so, "A Tale Of Two Cities" which we loved came later and "Northanger Abbey" which we didn't enjoy or appreciate for the "O" Level Exam held when we were 16.
I am sure there were other set books for each year but I cannot remember them.

I guess that would be to say, annpan, that the other books didnt' leave much of an impression on you.

Most of the books that I remember well and fondly were books I read on my own and not as a school assignment.

I have awful memories, for instance, of the entire class reading Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter OUT LOUD IN CLASS--tedious paragraph by tedious paragraph--particularly since some of my fellow students were rather poor readers! I could have read a dozen books on my own in the time wasted on reading Hawthorne OUT LOUD. Needless to say, Hawthorne was not one of my favored authors for a long time afterwards. : )

Kate

Argh! Kate, you just reminded me of how much I hated listening to my classmates read out loud. It was excruciating and probably one of the reasons I never developed a liking for audiobooks...they are just too s-l-o-o-o-w.

I was a poor out-loud reader myself, although I could read the words just fine until I fell silent because I would forget to speak when my eyes jumped ahead several sentences or paragraphs. I would be turning the page before I became aware that everyone was waiting for me to continue. My teacher eventually quit calling on me to read out loud, and she allowed me to read to myself.

I guess there was/is benefit to out-loud reading for some students, or otherwise teachers wouldn't employ the method, but I would've hated The Scarlet Letter as much as you, Kate, if it had been presented to me that way!

Come to think of it, I was never especially fond of any Hawthorne I read -- assigned or read on my own. The Blithedale Romance threw me for a loop because I was expecting 'romance', not all that commune stuff.

Annpan, I'm not surprised you remember Treasure Island! That one is indelible in my memory along with Kidnapped.

What about Ivanhoe? Did British students of your time read much of Sir Walter Scott? Or had he already fallen out of fashion? I was surprised that my English friends and co-workers often had not read as much Scott as I had.

Frieda, I think Walter Scott had pretty much gone out of fashion from the '40's onwards and certainly no Dickens was taught to anyone I knew back then. My Mother, growing up in the '20's loved both of those authors and was reading them by the age of 10.
And as for 'reading round the class' That was a sure sign to kill any interest in a book, but probably a pleasant way for a teacher to while away an 'after lunch' lesson. ;-)

May I ask a question of Kate (or anyone). US RP'ers often talk about book assignments/book reports. Can you explain this please. Does the teacher set you a book to read and then ask you questions about it? Do you (the student) choose the book and maybe write about it. Do you have 'set books' which the whole class reads and then discusses or answers questions about and then have to write rambling essays on such subjects as "Name three characters from Mansfield Park who show strength of will. Illustrate your answer with quotations from the book."
And finally, what form would an English Examination take?

In my far-off school days, English at 'O' level (usually 15-16 years) was divided into three papers of about two and a half hours each. One was an essay on a choice of subject (theirs not yours). The next was a 'language' paper, with the dreaded grammar/parsing/precis etc. and the third was Literature when you answered question/wrote essays on the various classics, plays (esp. Shakespeare) and poetry you had studied over a two year period.

veer, I take it you had a more British/European education? Not that I know much about it, but American public schools do not (at least as far as I know) have special exams set up other than some kind of reading exam in about the 4th grade and some kind of math exam (I think it is) around the 8th grade. Everything else is studied by semesters, with a couple exams and maybe a paper during that semester period of study on whatever the topic was for the semester.

I honestly no longer remember how grades were determined in public school except that there were exams on the material we studied for that semester. I don't think they were as sophisticated as your Mansfield Park example--more factual info, true and false, multiple choice, etc. But maybe I have forgotten something about the grading, because I do have a vague memory of reading and giving an oral report on a novel I selected from a list. For what class, I dont' know--nor do I remember what the novel was.

The kind of exam question you mentioned (about Mansfield Park) sounds more like the mid-term and end-of-the-semester essay exams I took in college--or even moreso, how things were handled in graduate school which included the typical semester exams and papers and a different set of exams on materials studied independently of any class and from a list compiled by the graduate faculty.

Papers often consisted of the teacher assigning a literary text and paper topic and everybody writing on it, or maybe several assigned topics and you could pick which one you wanted to write on. Sometimes you picked your own literary text (as long as it pertained to whatever the semester class itself was about and you would come up with your own topic. I'm sure there are other variations possible also.

But whatever, thank the fates that nobody assigned Mansfield Park for my high school studies. I might have given up reading permanently! LOL

Kate

Vee, my own experience goes back to the 1950s and '60s then jumps ahead to the 1990s and early 2000s when my boys were in school. I don't know if it is typical of most Americans' schooling, but here's what I remember.

In Kindergarten and grades 1 and 2 (ages 5-7) most kids were learning to read and besides Fun With Dick and Jane (a very large teacher's book on an easel and smaller copies for students to follow along with teacher as she -- nearly always a she -- pointed at and intoned each word with a wand/pointer), we were allowed to choose individually whatever books were available in the class library or in the big library down the hall. We would read 'em and then give 'reports' by standing in front of our classmates and telling them what the book was about. Of course some kids were better at giving reports than others; and the results must often have been hilarious for the teacher at times, especially when the kid completely misinterpreted what s/he read or simply made up something to go along with the pictures. I embarrassed myself in the second grade when I gave a report on a biography of Rachel Jackson (one of the Famous Young American series) and I burst into tears when Rachel died before her husband Andrew became president.

Writing book reports didn't come until grade 3 (age 8) for me (and for my sons later). These were on books we chose ourselves. We were given an outline to follow on what to include. Evidence of this kind of book report shows up in many a book review posted by older students and even adults today.

This continued until about grades 6, 7 or 8 (ages 11-13) when we were given prescribed (or suggested) lists of books to read over a semester or maybe a full year (2 semesters). I recall about 20-25 books were included but most students wound up reading only two or three, if that many. Some academic(s) had created a test on each book so the student could be tested on the particular text s/he read. We also read one or two books together as a class, and these are the ones that are usually either remembered fondly or despised.

Oh, I forgot to mention that each semester was divide into three 6-week periods (my sons had two 9-week periods). One six weeks was usually devoted to grammar/punctuation, etc., another six weeks was composition, and only the third was given over fully to reading (with reading of course interspersed among the other periods too). Actually only five of the six weeks were given over to learning and the sixth week of each period was comprehensive testing, nearly always written. At the end of each semester we also had "big" tests on the stuff we were supposed to have learned.

The kind of testing you describe didn't occur for me until high school (ages 14-17). In high school we got to choose our own books sometimes but we had a set list too that we were tested on at the end of the year. The latter were discussed in class with quizzes of fill-in the blanks, True or...

As a young girl, my real reading started with all of John Steinbeck.

Interesting posts about school.
At primary school, we had class 'readers' which were books of short stories, some fiction and some not (I still remember one where a man came home and thought his house was on fire, but it was nasturtiums on the roof!). We had a good school library and I read lots of children's novels, but I don't remember writing about them. We had a subject called 'composition' where we were given a topic and had to write about it, but that was more creative writing.
At high school we had set books in each year, and did have to write about them, but we didn't have external exams until the last two years. In those, there was a range of set texts the teacher chose from and taught about.

Here are examples from the Leaving English exam of 1974 in South Australia (Leaving was the penultimate year of high school for those going to University).

Time: 3 hours
1. Your reading this year of prose, poetry, drama has probably helped you a) to discern differences in people's characters or b) to know more about places or historical events or c) to appreciate various emotions of feelings expressed though the printed word.
Discuss some of the material you have read and say how and to what extent it has helped you with regard to one of more of the three aspects named.
OR
Choose any play which you have studied this year. What do you think would appeal at once tp a spectator of a performance of this play? What else would he discover about the play if he acted in it or if he read and thought about it afterwards?

There was also a booklet given out and we had to read poems we probably had never seen before and contrast them, choose two words from a list and write 300 words with that as a starting point, and then finally write a letter. There were 8 different choices of topic, all about cars in some way, and a different recipient in each one, the last writing to a friend to say how unfair it was that this section was about cars *g*

As I recall, the final year exam was very similar.

Kath, your mentioning creative writing reminded me of my nephew, aged about ten or eleven, who was assigned a written report on a book of his choosing. What he chose was to make up a story and write his report, but he used the names of friends and family making it quite obvious to my sister when she saw it what he had done. Of course, it was a lot more work than just doing the assignment but "it wasn't so boring," he said. He did make a good grade on it.

Oral book reports were my downfall in high school, remarkable considering the amount of talking I did in study hall.

This is all SO interesting and might help to explain why/how many of us go on to enjoy reading for its own sake. And why some of us could be put off 'classics' for life. ;-(
In my case because I was read to rather than reading to myself (by my housebound grandfather). . . I was a very slow, poor reader for years and never appeared to have been taught to read at school; all the other kids just seemed to be able to do it!
It was a very small place with about 40 pupils aged from 4 to 11 and only two teachers with a classroom each. This meant that many lessons were 'shared' with older/younger children.
The best part of the days was just before 'going home time' when we were read to for about 15 minutes; always 'classic' tales. I well remember Kidnapped as a favourite.
Kath's Aus system is rather more like ours in England where things seem more formal than the US. Frieda your system appears much more fluid and I can see why many students would do the minimum amount of work if they could get away with it. I think our 'A' level syllabus/exams (last year of school) is/was probably similar to your first year at University/College . . . although my husband reckons that these days kids aren't even expected to have read a 'whole' book/play and are given exam 'question papers' with chunks of text already in place for instant study.
As far as I know in England we never set test/exams with a tick-box/right-wrong answer system.

How people come to love reading is mostly a mystery to me, but in my son's case, I can tell you exactly how it happened.

In his first couple years in primary school, he more or less refused to learn to read--which frustrated his poor teachers who vented on me! I told one that she should get some Star Wars books and I'd bet he would learn to read quickly since he was nuts about everything Star Wars. She disapproved of that suggestion and didn't follow up on it. But I was sure all we needed was something he really WANTED to read--and he would read.

About that time a professional live production of Tom Sawyer came to town, so I took him to see it, mentioning casually that I had that book on my bookshelf. My Son instantly fell in love with Tom Sawyer and his world--wanted to stay and see the second show (this was the first live production he ever saw) and was so disappointed when I told him there was not a second show. But as we arrived home and pulled into the garage, a small voice asked, "Did you say you have that book?"

I was tired and hadn't looked at that book in a long time but I knew I had it somewhere--so there I was at almost midnight tearing through old boxes of books until I located Tom Sawyer and could hand it to my waiting son who refused to go to bed until I found that book.

He not only read that book, but he hasn't stopped reading since--another bookworm in this family!

Moral of the story--just takes one good book?

Kate

Indeed, acquiring the love of reading is quite a mystery to me too; especially when some siblings raised in the same family with the same exposures either 'get the bug' or they don't. Both of my parents, all of my grandparents, and numerous aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. were readers. The older of my two brothers and I turned out to be readers, but my brother just two years my senior was never much of a reader. My younger son is not a reader either, unless he has some practical purpose, such as studying manuals. Those he really relishes.

One thing about both my brother and my younger son, though, is they are exceptionally good listeners. Our older brother (nearly six and eight years older) read a lot out loud, ostensibly to me, but it was brother #2 who remembers what was read much better than I do. He knows a great amount of many classics, although he never read them himself. Same with my younger son...he wouldn't allow me to read to him, but he 'eavesdropped' when I read to his brother.

Vee, that's my understanding: your 'A' Level is roughly equivalent to the American first year of college. Something I didn't mention above is the SAT or ACT (acronyms) that American students who intend to go to college/univ usually sit for when they are high school seniors (12th grade, the last year). It's in two parts (math skills and language skills), and each takes several hours...maybe three each -- it's been forty-six years since I took the SAT so I'm fuzzy. It's supposed to measure how well a student is predicted to do in their university courses. There's much controversy about whether it actually means much in the long run, but it continues to be used as some sort of measurement of students' abilities. I did quite well on the SAT, but I've always suspected it was because I was good at taking tests. I actually did better on the math part than the language part, which shocked and confused me.

Frieda, my teacher-mother thought that some people have a "seeing" comprehension and some have a "hearing" comprehension. Mine is definitely seeing, but my husband has the hearing. He loves television as opposed to books and remembers what he hears. When he really wants to remember something he is reading, he reads it aloud to himself. Aside from my love of books, I blame some of my failure to remember what I hear on 45 years of taking dictation where I put the words I heard down in shorthand, bypassing my brain entirely.

Dublinbay, I think I must have read other interesting "set" books than I've recalled that might have made an impression at the time but as I left school nearly 60 years ago, blame a faulty memory rather than the authors!
My favourite authors at the time who I can recall were P.C. Wren, Baroness Orczy and Georgette Heyer, all borrowed from the school library.

Wow. I missed you guys. Haven't been here in over six months. I'm enjoying the conversation.

I think it was in eighth grade that we had a substitute English teacher who filled in for a couple of weeks for the regular teacher. Her name was Mrs. Honeman. We read and discussed A Separate Peace by John Knowles. I just can't say how many times I've reminisced about this and the how the fond memories of these discussions affected me greatly.

Although my mother was an avid reader and I was destined to be a reader too, this experience with Mrs. Honeman gave me a sense of reading I'd never experienced before and a framework on how to really THINK about a novel.

I've never had a chance to thank her for that experience and I think I heard that she passed away recently, so I never will be able to express my appreciation to her.

I won't stay away this long again if I can help it.

iamokathy--glad you could join us. Isn't it great how a particular book or teacher or moment sticks in our mind for decades--that moment when everything clicked into place and we went "Wow"!

But I must say--A Separate Peace in the 8th grade? That teacher was courageous. No parental outcry?

Kate

None that I can remember. Maybe it was in the first year of high school but not much later than that. I also remember the small subset of us who were doing the talking, and the rest were, well I don't know what the rest were doing. They didn't seem to be interested in the book and I could not understand it at the time.

It definitely was a wow moment for me.

Kate, I see that I have a copy of Bleak House on my shelves. Perhaps one of these days I will muster the energy to give it a try.

Put me firmly among those who loved The Lord of the Rings. However I liked it much better as a recording than as a printed book. I am firmly convinced that listening is a better experience with Tolkien's works. Language that looks stilted on the page flows beautifully to the ear. Whether deliberately or not, he used his background in oral literature when writing his novels.

About college entrance exams, some universities these days require subject content exams for admittance as well as the general reading skills/math skills SAT or ACT.
Here in California it is possible to do the first two years at a less expensive public community college, then transfer to a top rung public university for the second two years, getting the degree from that university. The state does it to save money, but it also saves money for the student. Community colleges do not require entrance exams for admittance. I don't know if the universities require them from community college transfer students. They do not if the student transfers from a different four year school where it is assumed they already took them.

Since states fund and govern their own public higher education systems, these policies will vary from state to state.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, while I strongly recommend Bleak House (read the slums plot closely but skim quickly over the sentimental plot--until about half way through), I think you actually just need to break out of that pattern and start with some new novels--like Theodore Dreiser's Sister Carrie--has the social density you expect in a Dicken's novel, but its heroine is breaking ground as a new "modern" character. It also has two plots going different directions, but it comes off as more for "adults"--a grown-up book.

Yes, I strongly recommend it as the cure for what ails you with Dickens! : )

Or dip into my absolute favorite American novel--Kate Chopin's The Awakening. It has the power of Madame Bovary or Anna Karennina, but the heroine is much more likeable and (like Sister Carrie) much more forward looking--into the start of the 20th century.

Yup, those two will set you up fine!

Kate