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Mme. Berkeley and Maman Cochet

alameda/zone 8/East Texas

14 years ago

I just purchased these 2 healthy specimens on sale for $5 each. Looked up their photos - they are beautiful! Can anyone tell me about their growth habits, bloom repeat, any tidbits of information and photos would be helpful!

Thanks!

Judith

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Comments (17)

gnabonnand
14 years ago
In my garden, Maman Cochet put out some octopus arms when it was young. If yours does that, don't give up on her, she'll fill out in time and produces heart-melting blooms. Those blooms are really special and the epitome of an old rose to me. I had to remove mine quite a few years ago, only because it was getting much larger than I thought it would, and my space is small.

Randy
jerijen
14 years ago
Mme. Berkeley is a pretty good sized plant, very full and bushy, and completely disease-free in our coastal SoCal garden.
(Disease problems here are rust/powdery mildew, and she suffers from neither.)

She's blooming now, and pretty much always is.

Jeri
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These observations are made in coastal Camarillo -- where we have less fog than we used to. 1. Baronne Prevost has always grown vigorously and bloomed well (resting a little during the hottest weather). It has been disease-resistant, only rusting a little on old leaves in late Fall. 2. Reve d'Or -- A good grower, and great repeat bloomer, with NO disease issues here. In my garden, it has no flaws. 3. Mutabilis -- NO disease. Continuous-bloom. A beautiful, graceful, BIG rose. Give it space, and it will reward you well. 4. Mons. Tillier -- Disease-free. Almost continuous-blooming. A lovely big rose that needs little attention. Blooms are lovely, but will turn to potpourri in Santa Ana windstorms. 5. Mme. Berkeley -- This is a BIG Tea Rose, well-clothed in perfect foliage, and never completely out of bloom. A "Go-To" rose for Thanksgiving and Christmas Bouquets. Bloom color shifts with the weather, but at its best is French Vanilla and Strawberries. Bloom size shrinks noticeably in very hot weather, but it goes right on blooming. 6. Maman Cochet -- ALL of the Cochets are disease-free here. Great repeat bloomers. Blooms are badly affected by cold, dank weather, and might not open. But it is lovely most of the time. I actually like Niles Cochet best, but they're all good. 7. Mrs. Dudley Cross -- Mildewed continuously here, and is long gone. Marie van Houtte is better here, IMHO. 8. Golden Celebration -- In very rare hot-humid spells, it can blackspot. It is free of other diseases. Resented hard pruning here, and does best for us with only a complete winter deadheading, and foliage removed. Blooms are exquisite. This is a cropper. Big flush. Deadhead. Another big flush, all through the year. 9. Mary Rose -- Had good disease-resistance, but that's when we sprayed. Good bloomer. Eventually removed because it became boring. 10. Sharifa Asma -- Mildewed a little, most of the time. Blooms were lovely, fragrance delightful, but the constant low-level mildew was too annoying. Long gone. 11. Graham Thomas -- If you want it to bloom, plan to pull the canes out horizontally. It grew 12-14-ft. canes, and mildewed. Only bloomed at the top, hence the suggestion to train it horizontally. 12. Altissimo -- at a home in La Conchita, this bloomed like an explosion of color, and covered much of the two-story front. Good disease-resistance. Beautiful color. 13. Sally Holmes -- Disease-free. Best bloom in the spring, when it explodes with color. Want mine? It's huge, and probably Virus-free. I need the space! 14. Secret -- Compact, upright habit. Excellent repeat. Terrific disease-resistance. Good Fragrance. Every plant I ever saw (including my three, from three different growers) was virused to the max. Pity. 15. Cornelia -- wonderful as a shrub or low-climber. Disease free. Biggest bloom in the spring, but it will repeat respectably in Fall, scattering bloom through winter 16. Mrs. R.M. Finch -- Mildewed uncontrollably. Gone. 17. Leonie Lamesch -- A lovely bloom, doesn't make sprays. Gorgeous color, delightful fragrance. Completely disease-free here. A stingy bloomer for us. 18. Lamarque -- Not in my garden, but a virused plant blooms wonderfully at the Adolfo Camarillo Ranch. Disease free. In maturity, it repeats well. 19. Grandmother's Hat -- My number-one recommendation in consideration of disease-resistance, graceful habit, adaptability, and generosity of bloom. We must have a dozen of it here. DH keeps planting it. If I could have but one rose, it would be this one. Jeri Jennings Coastal Ventura County, Camarillo
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Any experience with disease on my potential picks in a coastal location? I have grown Mrs. Dudley Cross for 2 years, she is 6' wide x 4' tall and taking off. No mildew so far but I have read that she mildews near the coast. My home is elevated above the ocean so many times the fog is below us but it is clear and sunny here. All the new roses will get early morning sun and over 7 hours total per day except one spot. That location may be shaded some by the rose to the south of it so during the winter and early spring the sun will be more southerly(sp?) and will cast a shadow in that spot. I was going to put Sophie's P there since some say she is shade tolerant a bit. Any better choices? I want to thank the board especially Jeri and Kim (Rosefolly) they patiently answer my newbie questions. Due to their input and many on this board (THANKS EVERYONE!) I am enjoying healthy old garden roses: Monsieur Tillier, Mme Berkeley, Maman Cochet, Mutabilis, Reve d'Or, Gruss an Aachen, Marie Pavie, Grandma's Hat and Larry Daniels (when he grows a bit more, he's just a baby) and Lupe's Buttons. Now that I'm HOOKED on their beauty and unique personalities I find my modern roses a bit boring! Lee
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Patrick,I can only share my experience in MD. Hopefully it will be better for you mom. I never grew climbing form of WMC, but bush form was not so successful in my garden. First, the spring flush always got severe case of botritis and balled. Then it was a long pause before next flush, which was destroyed by JBs anyway. The third (fall)flush again got botritis. I had WMC in my garden for 4 years and, I am not kidding, I got 5-6 opened blooms on it altogether. Everything else was balled or chewed up. These blooms were lovely. I had very similar experience with regular MC and Niles Cochet. In addition, all three needed regular spraying to keep leaves on. They were more BS prone then other 20+ different teas I grow or used to grow. It is not a location in the garden or my cultural practice. I have Mme Joseph Schwartz, Georgetown Tea and Safrano in the same places where Cochet family used to grow and all three are happy. Sorry for being pessimistic. Olga
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gardennatlanta
14 years ago
Alameda, I'm jealous. Even though I don't have room, I would buy Mamam Cochet and Mme. Berkley for only 5 bucks each! I'd plant them at my parents' house or neighbor's house if nothing else.

I hope you enjoy them.
cweathersby
14 years ago
I think that Mme Berkely is my most beautiful Tea rose. I've always wondered why she isn't praised very often here. Beeautiful apricot-pink flowers, fully double without any of the vegetative growth or balling that affects other really full flowered teas. The habit of the shrub is the best part. Wider than tall, full to the ground, as bushy as a china. And in constant bloom! Even though mine only gets morning sun, she blooms better than most of them in full sun!
alameda/zone 8/East Texas
Original Author
14 years ago
I am glad to know what size these roses are - I have a perfect spot for them and they will have the room to grow as big as they like. I love the photos on helpmefind! How could I resist for $5 each???

I have a question.....I am in east Texas, it gets hot here. The spot I am thinking of putting them is in full most of the day sun. They will be near a hydrant and I can water well. But should teas in Texas be given a spot with more afternoon shade? Thanks!
Judith
jerijen
14 years ago
Alameda, Mme. Berkeley and other Teas are in all-day sun on a south-facing hillside.
The Mme. shades herself, as much as is needed.

Jeri
cweathersby
14 years ago
Full Texas sun is a good thing. There are only a few roses - and only 1 tea that I know of- whose blooms crisp so badly that I wouldn't prefer them in full sun. Neither of these have that problem.
berndoodle
14 years ago
Interesting. My experience with high heat is different. I find that Maman Cochet handles high heat better than Mme Berkeley, in the MB's bloom burn red in the heat to a mottled color I do not love. I have 3 plants of MB in high exposure areas where they suffer from the heat, and the blooms are much better in cooler weather. My plant in my garden near the coast has wonderful blooms all the time.
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
14 years ago
Please forgive my one dissenting opinion on Mme. Berkeley here. Mine was indeed bushy and floriferous and everything wonderful - but I found her boring. I can't put my finger on it; perhaps the blooms look too modern. Don't let this put you off; there's nothing more individual and mysteriour than one's opinion about what makes a rose beautiful. Also, you did get the most incredible bargain price for two old roses. I would have been tempted myself - at least for Maman Cochet, which I've never grown. Good luck with these roses!

Ingrid
jerijen
14 years ago
I have 3 plants of MB in high exposure areas where they suffer from the heat, and the blooms are much better in cooler weather.

*** Well, come's to that, our climate is cooler than most.

Jeri
mudbird
14 years ago
I tried Madame Berkeley in my garden maybe ten years ago and she perished tho I can't remember the details anymore. There was a lot of trampling in those days due to rambunctious boys, dogs and contruction projects. Berndoodle has always spoken so highly of MB that I intended to give her a second try and finally ordered her this month. After reading this new thread with particular praise for MB in coastal gardens, I'm really looking forward to planting her tho she will have to grow out a bit as it's a Vintage band from their winter sale.
luxrosa
14 years ago
'Mme. Berkeley' is one of my five favorite Tea roses, among c. 200 of that class. I love its' shapely blooms, which are medium sized and have those starry pointed edges I love so much. The color varies from a medium rich pink, with salmon and apricot hues, to buff yellow with light pink in our cool climate coastal region.
I also grow white 'Maman Cochet' and love its' elegant blooms, which last longer in the vase than a dozen other Tea roses, which I believe may be due to its thicker petal substance. The bush form re-blooms quite a bit faster than the climbing form.
Both are healthy plants in my organic rose garden, where temperatures are more often in the 80's than 90's during the bloom season.
My neighbor has espaliered her 'Maman Cochet' to a wonderful effect, and I confess I visit her rose more often than her.

Lux
sherryocala
14 years ago
Wow, Lux, I sure would like to see that espaliered Maman Cochet. Got any photos from your frequent visits???

Sherry
alameda/zone 8/East Texas
Original Author
14 years ago
Luxrosa, I am highjacking my own thread, but I would love to know what your 5 favorite Tea roses are! And anyone else who cares to share their list! After hearing these glowing comments, I cant wait to see these two bloom!
Judith
cweathersby
14 years ago
Yes the blooms do get mottled. But since I've stopped spraying, mottled doesn't bother me so much when the shape of the plant is still delightful. Since I only have the one plant, I don't know if it would be more mottled in more sun. The health of this one makes it a fave.
berndoodle
14 years ago
I agree completely. Mme Berkeley is a lovely plant, and I love the blooms. I was simply observing that in my gardens, other Teas have blooms that show less effect in high heat. I don't spray, so the mottling isn't from spray. I suppose it could be from thrips. The blooms open, but they could still be under attack.
cweathersby
14 years ago
I've got an MFK near Mme Berk. The color and bloom form is similar in both. But the color in MFK is always better and never mottled. But MFK balls AND has veggie centers AND has serious BS problems.

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