I forgot Louis Philippe 5' x 4'?

TIA,

Lee

Lee, I have relatively mature versions of some of the teas on your list.

At about 8 years old, Etoile de Lyon is 6' tall and 12' wide (and still wanting to expand upward and outward). I prune a few feet off all around each winter to keep my pathway.

Same age, Mrs. B.R. Cant is 8' tall and 14' wide. She's sort of stabilizing there, but she's in a spot where she can have all the room she wants.

While I imagine you could keep MBRC to 8'x8', there is no way EdL is ever going to be anywhere near as small as 4'x3' to begin with. These are just inherently big varieties in mild climates like ours.

You can probably keep Mme. Antoine Mari to 5'x7', her more-twiggy structure being easier to prune gracefully. Here she is 6' tall and 10' wide, but I have taken off as much as 3' all around, again to retrieve my pathway.

So it is, here in Livermore.

This post was edited by catspa on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 10:40

WOW! Catspa,

No where, and I looked at as many references as I could find, was there any mention of Etoile de Lyon getting that big. Thanks for the heads up. I can live with 6' tall. What is a reasonable width to target?

Lee

I would caution you against attempting to restrain your Teas to a size significantly smaller than their preferred size.

I'm sure they are smaller somewhere else, but that's what they want to be in CA, and their good health and bloom production will be maximized at something approaching the size they want to be.

Jeri

Oh my goodness, catspa -

I'm so glad to learn how large Mrs. B R Cant will grow in a mild climate! I'm getting ready to plant her in the next day or two, and now I know to leave plenty of space around her.

Thank you !!!!

Rosette Delizy CAN make 6 x 5, IF it is given time to do so.

Poor Sophie's Perpetual never got over 2 ft. here. I have heard others say the same. So -- who knows?

Jeri

THANKS Catspa and Jeri,

ANY and ALL information is a great help since I've never grown these.

If I plant them and they are wider than planned and they grow into one another, any advice? Leave them alone? Thin out where they grow together? If they don't grow wide enough I can always fill in with other plants temporarily.

Lee

Any experience with disease on my potential picks in a coastal location?

I have grown Mrs. Dudley Cross for 2 years, she is 6' wide x 4' tall and taking off. No mildew so far but I have read that she mildews near the coast. My home is elevated above the ocean so many times the fog is below us but it is clear and sunny here.

All the new roses will get early morning sun and over 7 hours total per day except one spot. That location may be shaded some by the rose to the south of it so during the winter and early spring the sun will be more southerly(sp?) and will cast a shadow in that spot. I was going to put Sophie's P there since some say she is shade tolerant a bit. Any better choices?

I want to thank the board especially Jeri and Kim (Rosefolly) they patiently answer my newbie questions. Due to their input and many on this board (THANKS EVERYONE!) I am enjoying healthy old garden roses: Monsieur Tillier, Mme Berkeley, Maman Cochet, Mutabilis, Reve d'Or, Gruss an Aachen, Marie Pavie, Grandma's Hat and Larry Daniels (when he grows a bit more, he's just a baby) and Lupe's Buttons. Now that I'm HOOKED on their beauty and unique personalities I find my modern roses a bit boring!

Lee

I think it's going to depend on what bothers you.

We planted many roses too close to each other. In some cases, they grew together compatibly. In a few cases, a really big rose devoured and killed a daintier one. :-(

I would really try to give them more space than you think they need. Fewer, larger, roses are after all far less work, and use far less water.

Jeri

Oh, Lee -- Our Louis Philippe is over 6 ft tall now, and still climbing. His width is about the same. Our only mistake may have been lack of planning for a pathway bet. Him and Mime. Berkeley.

Jeri

My Sophie's Perpetual is still in a pot and seems to be quite happy - and she is looking like she wants to sprawl. Was glad to hear, Jeri, that yours didnt get big either - I thought I was doing something wrong that mine didnt grow more.

I have a row of: Mme. Berkeley, Georgetown Tea, Mrs. BR Cant, Mon. Tillier, Maman Cochet. All but Maman are huge - they are planted far apart with different colored crepe myrtles in between them - sure glad I gave them plenty of room! I live in Texas - they are in full sunlight, and grow like weeds. Be careful that you give these roses plenty of elbow room. My Lady Hillingdon, however, is planted in another bed and is not very big, seems I heard it doesnt get huge or maybe it is slow growing. Mine is healthy and doing well but not getting big.

I have seen a huge Rosette Delizy, much bigger than 4x5. I think it might depend on your climate as to how large they get. These are wonderful roses - you will truly enjoy them!
Judith

Thank you Jeri and Judith! I get the message about size and pruning.....

You've kept me from creating a difficult problem! I will prune minimally and try to just shape the bush and allow it to spread out. Will this work? Now I've planned for this much room to grow:

Portland from Glendora - 8-10' x 10'
Sophie's Perpetual - 3' x 4'
Archduke Charles - 5' x 5'
Le Vesuve 8' x 8'
Mrs. B.R. Cant 8' x 14'
Gilbert Nabonnand 6' x 6'
Madame Antoine Mari 6' x 10'
Lady Hillingdon 6' x 6'
Rosette Delizy 6' x 6'
Cramoisi Superieur 5' x 5'
Etoile de Lyon 6 x 12'
Glorie de Rosomanes 10-12' x 8'
Marie Van Houtte 8' x 8'

This post was edited by leezen4u on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 11:24

All fine. Rosette Delizy will likely be a bit less wide than tall, even long-term.

In the beginning, you will have "bare areas," but you can fill in with salvias, lavenders, etc. It's better than overplanting to begin with.

Jeri

It's always interesting to come upon the remains of those "filler" plants under the canopies of teas in future years and remember that when you planted them you were thinking "plenty of space here!" :-) Happens here all the time; they nearly always get bigger than you ever thought possible, given time...and certainly larger than any published source ever says.

This post was edited by catspa on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 13:05

Thanks so much...... Now the hard part, actually doing the work!

Lee