How much is the book and how much is the moderator?

We also use a scale of 1-5 in rating, but we don't use those two disticntions. I like that very much and will suggest that to the group

>A) Are there more books out there that provide both enjoyability and discussability?

I am sure there are, only problem is that people have different ideas of whats enjoyable (see below) and people have different interests in discussion. Some would like to have a seminar in the book, others just want to talk about the story and characters and then eat.

B) Is enjoyability an important part of the equation? (It is for me. But I can't enjoy a book if it's too lightweight.)

Yes, - but it depends on what you mean by enjoyability. There are some excellent reads out there that were such that saying I enjoyed them would not be quite right (thinking of All Quiet on the Western Front type books). Enjoyable meaning the language, the story, the characters? Enjoyable because its an easy fast read? Or enjoyable because you came away from the book with a new way of seeing the world? If you can find a book with all of those, then you'd probably have a winner.

C) In your opinion, what ingredients make for the perfect book club reading choice?

You need to look at the type of group you have. If the books match the groups interest and personality, you probably have a good choice. And if someone in the group has read the book and acts as a cheerleader for it, so much the better.

I am going to play my broken record--a designated and well-prepared leader is critical for a successful discussion. It helps that the book is "enjoyable" at some level so that most, preferably all, of one's group has read the book and is able to participate in the discussion.

My group's discussions are, without fail, in-depth and seem to take on a life of their own when the leader comes with questions, background information, etc. Unfortunately, once in a while someone shows up, um, UNPREPARED, and very often the discussion falls flat even though the book seems to be a good choice for our group. That being said, we have some limited rules for what members cannot proffer up--no Romance novels, no pop-bios, nothing irredeemably fluffy. We have a yearly planning meeting at which each member brings books, we vote on our choices and each member is assigned a month for her book and is responsible for leading the discussion. Leaning into politics can be iffy since we have some wide-ranging views in our crowd.. but we do it anyway now and then.

I guess what I am saying is that my group has found that, within our parameters, the discussion can rise or fall with the leader and not always the book. YMMV.

I think you're right, Bookmom. The leader makes a big difference. Up until last year, I was the defacto leader. I enjoyed doing some research on the author and the book, and preparing ahead of time for the discussion. When we read Smilla's Sense of Snow, I even made up a list of the various characters and how they were related to each other and the story. But I eventually wore out, and we decided that whoever was hosting each month would also lead the discussion. Some members are more comfortable with this duty than others. It helps if there are questions at the back of the book, but as someone stated, these can be pretty weak.

I do find, though, that some books really invite discussion, no matter who is leading the group, while others just don't seem to generate many comments other than "I really liked this book."

In our book club, it seems that I am the leader for some reason and so I am responsibile for finding discussion questions, even if it means that I have to sit down and make them up.

As far as books which gave us great discussion (and were enjoyable to different degrees): The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenhause (maybe) about forgiveness during WWII for Jewish people and nazi soldiers. Simon gives his memory of an occasion when a Nazi soldier asked him (as a representative of Jewish people) for forgiveness. What would you have done? And then the rest of the book is about various other people, ranging from the Dalai Llama to politicians and other people giving their two cents on what they would have done. We got fabulous discussion over this and are still talking about it to this day.

Enjoyable and discussability are two different things, I think. It's good if you can combine the two, but a book doesn't have to be enjoyable to get a good discussion and TBH, in a book club situation, I prefer a good discussion then an enjoyable book.

> Simon Wiesenhause (maybe

Wiesenthal :) What a remarkable read. The differing opinions on the subject by such a large variety of people really does lend itself to discussion, to pondering, thinking outloud. BTW, he redid the book a few years back, took out some essays, added others Ive been meaning to read that one and see what is different.

Which reminds me - the best discussions I can remember in RL groups were of non fiction or memoirs: Isabel Allende's Paula, Steven Ambrose Undaunted Courage, Didons Year of Magical Thinking. Well written, even enjoyable, with lots of meat for discussion. But since some readers don't care to read nonfiction, it could be fun to pair a fiction and nonfiction together of the same theme. For example: Wild Swans with The Good Earth. Or: pair a book with a movie. Painted Veil could be a great choice, since the endings are a bit different in both.

Our most vigorous discussion was of Krakour's Under the Banner of Heaven about the splinter Mormon groups with practices and views most of us abhor. Of course getting a group of career women together to talk about the murder of a woman trying to create a life for herself is bound to be a winner.

My most popular selection was The Beast in the Garden: The True Story of a Predator's Deadly Return to Suburban America by David Baron but apparently I missed most of the discussion. Four or five of our group meet every Wednesday and Saturday to run and I heard all month how everyone was buzzing about the book. I was thrilled I'd finally made a popular pick. They talked enthusiastically but not at length. I am convinced they mostly exhausted discussion while running.

Our best discussions come from novels with Moral Choices and from books about subjects we know little. Beyond noting a particularly gracefully written book, our discussion of the writing style is limited to our one English Major stating that it was or was not well written. I guess we are more an ideas group than a reading group.

As for questions, we don't always have prepared topics and when we do we don't use them very much. I'm probably the researcher of the group and will e-mail everyone all month with articles that are in some way associated with the book. We are also big with bringing photos or maps that may be of interest.

As a long-time book club member, I wish I had something enlightening to say. I don't. This question has been an ongoing dilemma in both book clubs I've belonged to. I was reminded of this at our most recent meeting where every single person really enjoyed the book (an unusual occurrence), but the discussion was lackluster - a string of praises and favorite passages. But since most of my time with a book is spent away from book club, I do prefer the ones that are "enjoyable."

Perhaps it also has to do with the time period and the choice of books as relevant to the issues of the day. Years ago, when the Feminist Movement first began, I was in a book group. Our leader selected strictly feminist works in their orientation. I recall how our entire group was fascinated by Kate Chopin's "The Awakening". Then, it seemed fresh and new. When I went back to re-read it not so long ago, I was less impressed. Another recollection is that this book group put me off Joyce Carol Oates forever....

controversial topics-I think the portrayal of all her characters in a somewhat sympathetic light will make Nineteen Minutes-J. Picoult's latest, popular for book club discussions-besides it being highly readable.

No doubt about it, having the leadership duty falling to the same person each month would lead to burn out. As I recall, when the bookclub I'm in started, the group tended to look to me and another woman as the discussion leaders since we were the ones who put the club together. We instituted the planning meeting where we vote on each member's book choices, etc. Does this make every discussion stellar? No--some of us, as Sarah noted, are more comfortable leading which sometimes involves keeping the group focused, and some members do like to listen to the discussion rather than contribute heavily.

I went to a few meetings at the library where the bookclub leader is a retired high school literature teacher. She leads my "dream" book club--focused in-depth discussion, deals with writing styles, imagery, symbolism. Plus, no getting off topic, no silliness and no allowing a big talker to dominate the group. In short, it was like my favorite class in school! Then, I have to remind myself that my bookclub doesn't have a retired English teacher leading us, we all enjoy getting together to both discuss the book and socialize, and when a stinker of a book comes up I remind myself about "reading outside my box."

The Sunflower sounds like a terrific bookclub choice. A book with substance stands a much better chance of engendering interesting discussion regardless of the leader.

A beautiful fiction partner book to The Sunflower would be A Thread of Grace, also about Nazis and Jews, sacrifice and forgiveness. We had one of our best discussions ever, and I think each would enhance the other.

My bookclub is made up of a group of friends who discovered a mutual interest in reading. We prefer to read books that will engender thoughtful discussion-we are all pretty much on the same page with basic values and beliefs-one reason why we are friends, I guess. But a question such as the one mentioned in The Sunflower would bring about a great discussion for us. I don't consider that controversial-rather I see it as deep.

I've had the fun of being a member of many book clubs over the years; all of them had their strong points and their weak points. Presently I am in a book club where we don't have to purchase the books. Our book club uses book kits from the public library. This puts belonging to a reader's club within reach of those who are on a limited income. It also means we have to choose from the book kits that are available. It has been an wonderful 2 years! We have read a wide range of books and authors, current and classical. Perfect, no; interesting, yes!

thyrkas, what's in a book kit besides a book? What are some of the titles your group read?

Here's description of the book kits from the Princeton, MN Public Library: A hard plastic carrying case with handles that contains 12 books (numbered), sometimes an audio book, a discussion folder with a reader's guide (description of the book, questions), and a form to request the book for the next meeting. This is checked out to one person, with the due date being 6 weeks from the check out date. We have read The Shadow of the Wind, The Life Of Pi, The #1 Ladies Detective Agency, The Pact, O, Pioneers!, Prodigal Summer, Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight, and about 15 other titles in 2 plus years.

I had to smile reading that description - sounds exaclty like the audio book kits we had in elementary school! I do like that list, nice variation of books there.

Thank you all for you responses. You've given me some good ideas, and some names of books that just might spark some discussion. I'm always a little leery of books about the Holocaust; I often find them too upsetting to read. But The Sunflower sounds like it goes beyond just relating the horrors to some deeper reflections on human nature. My library doesn't have a copy, nor a copy of A Thread of Grace, but I think I'll look elsewhere for them.

I like the idea of the reading kits. I believe our local library has a few of those; I'm not sure how many. I went to one meeting of the library book club. We discussed Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth, a fabulous book, but I was disappointed in the discussion. It was dominated by a woman who wanted to discuss current-day politics, and the leader/librarian, couldn't seem to slow her down. The discussion ended exactly one hour after we started, even though we had lots more to discuss.

True, sarah canary, if you attend a book group discussion at the library, the meeting is over when the library closes whether the group wants to stop talking or not! Although one library trusted us enough to let us stay longer, but we had to swear with hands held over our hearts to make sure lights were out and doors were locked, etc.
With a book kit, though, we meet where ever we want and talk as long as we want. Just have to get all the books back (which can be tricky) by the due date. We are very fortunate, as our library has at least 50 titles in kits of 10-12 books, with new titles being added and old titles being retired on a regular basis.

Has any group tried short stories? One group I am in has decided, since no one seems to have enough time to finish a book (?!) they want to try a collection of shorts. In this case its Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri. I personally don't like short stories, except in sci fi, so I probably won't be interested. I just don't see this working; its certainly not an exciting idea for me. But I could be wrong.

cindydavid - I had to admit to a big sigh when I read: "...no one seems to have enough time to finish a book..." That's too sad. I think they're really cheating themselves. How many book groups are you currently in?

If you're going to read short stories, Interpreter of Maladies is a good one. Our group read that a few years ago and really liked it. We later read The Namesake by the same author ... another hit.

I'm not a big fan of short stories, either, but there are some good ones out there. We also read Inventing the Abotts. I used to read sci fi shorts -- my all-time favorite was Dangerous Visions edited by Harlan Ellison.

Im in two real life ones - general fiction and sci fi. This is a third that I happened upon. I am in two online book groups. Thats a lot; but I don't read every monthly selection, only the ones that interest me.

I have read enough short stories that I liked - O Henry, Saki and Mark Twain ones being favs since jr hi. Love Bradbury and Vonnegut short stories, and Ellison. Many times tho they just aren't enough for me. But I'll check the groups selection out anyway. I have heard of it before, just never thought about giving it a try.

If you are thinking of reading short stories, I recommend Alice Munro (Canadian writer): "Runaway."

Wow, cindydavid, that's a lot of book clubs. Do you have a favorite? I tried to follow a Barnes & Noble online book discussion about Mitch Albom's The Five People You Meet in Heaven. He was actually participating in the discussion. But after the twentieth person told him how wonderful he was and how wonderful the book was, I realized there wasn't really going to be much discussion; or if their ever was, I wasn't going to have the patience to wade through the thread to find it.

The book group I am involved in the most is my other online one. Ive been active with it for almost 6 years, and its probably my favorite. Its also spoiled me, as has this one, to how books can be discussed passed a superficial level. The other two RL groups I've been in for a while. I don't participate each month so its not that much really. While I prefer online, there are times when having face to face groups leads to a better, or at least more persoanl discussion.

When I first googled for book groups on line, I ran into several jsut like that BN group. Not much discussion going on, or if there was, it was answering the questions in the readers guide with little to no interaction between people and their answers.