Quick Question about Yeast Ratio in Bread

12 years ago

Most of my bread recipes call for a pkg of yeast (2 1/4 tsp) for about 3-4 cups flour.

The honey whole-wheat recipe uses 6 cups flour and 4 1/2 tsp yeast.

I came across a white bread recipe today that looks good, a real high rise on the sandwich loaf. Makes 2 9x5" loaves, using 7 1/2 cups flour with more for kneading. But it only calls for 2 1/2 tsp yeast. That sure doesn't sound like enough to me!

What is the general guideline for the amount of yeast used?

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Comments (22)

User
12 years ago
Sounds right to me. I tend to use less yeast and go for a longer slow rise. This makes for a more developed flavour and texture.

Ann
teresa_nc7
12 years ago
Most of my recipes that call for 1 package (2 1/4 t.) of yeast will require 5-6 cups of flour and make 2 8x4" loaves. IMO, 2 1/4 t. yeast in a recipe that only calls for 3-4 cups flour is too much yeast and I would cut back. The white bread recipe sounds fine to me. Just give it plenty of rising time and it will be enough yeast.

Teresa
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gldno1- Here's the 100% Whole Wheat Bread Recipe. It's designed to be made in a bread machine, but it can be made by hand. I have to give my friend, Mildred from Missouri, the credit for this great recipe. 100% Whole Wheat Bread Bread Machine (changes for by-hand at the bottom of the recipe) Sponge: 3/4 c. lukewarm buttermilk (I use homemade kefir.) 3/4 c. lukewarm water 2-1/2 c. freshly-milled white whole wheat flour (Prairie Gold from Wheat Montana is my favorite wheat variety) 1/4 t. ascorbic acid* 2 t. SAF-Instant Yeast Mix these ingredients in the bread machine pan and set the machine to QUICK DOUGH. As soon as the mixture is well mixed, stop and unplug the machine and allow to sit (with the lid closed) at least 2-1/2 hours, or up to 12 hours (or something in between). I'd suggest at least 12 hours if you are using a whole wheat flour milled from red wheat varieties, for a more mild flavor. After the sponge has set, mix these ingredients into the sponge: 2 T. melted coconut oil (or butter or veg. oil) 2 T. agave nectar (or honey) 1 egg (I also add 1/3-1/2 c. chia seed gel. **) Add to the top of the sponge mixture in the pan: 2-1/4 c. freshly-milled whole wheat flour 2 t. salt (on top the flour) Set the bread machine on regular DOUGH cycle and process. Check the dough to make sure it's formed into a nice soft ball and adjust the hydration as needed. My changes: I process the dough in the bread machine until the dough is mixed and kneaded. I don't let it rise in the machine. I place the dough in a dough rising bucket, place the lid on the top and allow the dough to ALMOST rise to double. Whole wheat dough does NOT have the extensibility that white bread dough does, so try not to let it go more than double. Using a dough rising bucket helps you to accurately judge when dough has doubled. Place the dough into a dough rising bucket. It should come up to the 1-quart line. It's doubled when it reaches the 2-quart line. You can get plastic food storage containers (with a tight-fitting lid and graduated measures on the side) at restaurant supply stores (or through King Arthur Flour - aka dough doubler). For this recipe a 2-quart container works perfectly.) After the bread machine finishes the dough cycle (or has doubled in the dough rising bucket), dump the dough onto a Silpat and with oiled/greased hands deflate the dough by pushing it in the middle with your fist then drawing all edges of the outside dough into the middle (turning the dough inside-out, so to speak). Divide the dough into portions (I scale the dough for accuracy.) Round each portion (make it into a smooth ball) so that all the gluten strands are going into the same direction. Cover and allow to rest 10-15 minutes so the gluten relaxes. Form dough (oil your hands when you handle the dough), pan, cover with plastic wrap for the final proofing - etc.... I make this bread into 3 small loaves (7-1/2x3-1/2-inch pans - 350°F for 20-25 minutes), OR one 1# Pullman Loaf and use the other 1# of dough for 6 pecan rolls OR an 8-inch pan of dinner rolls - sometimes I use a portion of the recipe for hamburger or hot dog buns. If making two regular loaves, bake in a 375°F oven for 25-minutes. A very versitile dough. ------------------------------------------------------ * ascorbic acid powder is available at most health food stores. It's a very important ingredient when you make yeast bread that includes wheat germ (which is in whole wheat flour). There is a substance in wheat germ called Glutathione. This substance breaks down the gluten and can result in a short loaf. The bran in whole wheat bread can cut the gluten strands, which results in a short squatty loaf. The sponge helps to soften the bran. The addition of 1/8 t. ascorbic acid per loaf of bread will counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. It will help prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down and will also help repair gluten bonds that have been broken. The ascorbic acid also helps sustain the leavening of bread loaves during baking. Yeast grows longer and faster when there is also ascorbic acid. Do not add it to sourdough recipes because they are naturally an acidic atmosphere. ** Chia seed gel is a mixture of chia seeds and water (1 part chia seeds to 9 parts water). This mixture thickens as the seeds absorb the water and adds hydration to the crumb of the loaf. It looks like poppy seeds in the bread after it's baked. Excellent nutritional boost and additional fiber. --------------------------------------------------------- BY HAND, place sponge ingredients in a glass or plastic bowl and mix the sponge ingredients together with a Danish dough whisk or a wooden spoon and beat the ingredients about 100 strokes. Cover, and allow to sit at room temperature at least 2-1/2 hours, but up to 12 hours. After the sponge is done: add the flour gradually to the sponge mixture using a Danish dough whisk (or wooden spoon) and carefully beat in each addition of flour before adding more. You may end up beating the dough 500-800 strokes, but do as much mixing as you have the strength to do. If you need to stop and rest, that's fine. The rest will allow the dough to hydrate. Towards the end of mixing, add the salt (DON'T FORGET!!!). The gluten will tighten up and make mixing harder after adding salt. The better job you do of mixing the dough and developing the gluten while it's in the bowl, the less time you'll need to knead it. When you knead the dough, avoid adding a lot of bench flour. If you have a problem adding too much flour during kneading, grease/oil your hands during kneading instead - especially during the last 2-3 minutes of kneading. -Grainlady
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I use both Active Dry Yeast and a Fast-Rising Yeast (SAF-Instant) in the bread machine and for recipes I make by-hand. These yeast products are, and they are NOT, interchangeable, depending on it's application - just to complicate the issue for you. I tend to respect the type of yeast called for in a recipe. I also know when a recipe calls for Active Dry Yeast and I use a Fast-Rising Yeast, I should also reduce the amount by 25% or it will rise too quickly. This is especially important in a bread machine because the rise is TIMED, and you can find your bread dough pushing the lid off the bread machine because you've actually added TOO much yeast. The Fast-Rising Yeast products were originally used to make bread quicker by: -Omitting proofing the yeast in water/sweetener. You can cut 10-minutes off right there. You can add the yeast directly to a portion of the dry ingredients. (Don't forget you need the liquid to be warmer than when you proof yeast in water). The water cools quickly when it's added to a bulk amount of dry ingredients, so the warmer temperature is necessary to activate the yeast because it cools during the mixing. Side note... Because yeast has developed over the years, you can also add active dry yeast directly to the dry ingredients, you'll find many recipes that do so. You don't ALWAYS have to proof the yeast first. It's just another option in the world of bread-making. Just remember the temperature of the liquid will need to be higher (125-130-degrees F) than when you proof the yeast in water (100-110-degrees F). -Using a fast-rising yeast you can also omit the first rise. After kneading, you cover the dough and allow it to rest for 10-minutes before forming the dough. After your dough is formed, you allow it to proof to "double" as usual. If you happen to have a Zojirushi Bread Machine, you'll notice in the recipes in the user's manual they suggest one amount of yeast if you use Active Dry Yeast, and another (smaller) amount if you use a Fast-Rising Yeast, when you use the regular cycle. The same information is included in Beth Hensperger's book, "The Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook". As the others have shared, a fast-rise is a destination to get bread done quicker, but not necessarily BETTER bread. I have an old recipe for 30-Minute Hamburger Buns and they literally take only 30-minutes from start to baked burger buns. It's enormous amount of yeast in ratio to the amount of flour (6-tablespoons to 10-1/2 cups whole wheat flour = 4 dozen hamburger buns) is what makes it work in 30-minutes. While I've used this recipe when time was an issue, I wouldn't have put the finished product in the County Fair because they just wouldn't stand up to Judging Standards. But the recipe works well for a huge bunch of teenagers over for Sloppy Joes on the spur of the moment. Heck, they'll eat ANYTHING!!!(LOL) For bread in a bread machine that is made on the Quick Cycle in one hour, you MUST use the fast-rising yeast (SAF-Instant, Quick-Rise, Rapid-Rise, or Bread Machine Yeast - which are all fast-rising yeast products), in order to get a loaf in 1-hour. Active Dry Yeast won't work properly on the Quick Cycle. If you ever need to test your yeast (especially if you buy in bulk and don't use it all that often): Use a 1-cup glass measuring cup. Fill it to the 1/4-cup line with warm water and add 1 t. sugar and 1-1/2 t. yeast. Wait 10-minutes. If your yeast is active it should be up to the 1/2-cup line. And always remember... Your bread dough rises according to the strength of the yeast, ambient temperature, and moisture --- NOT according to a clock. The bread dough that rises in 25-minutes in the summer in my kitchen can take 45-minutes in a cold winter kitchen. -Grainlady
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I know this is a little late to respond, but I make Rotis all the time. I try to limit the amount of wheat I eat, and using flat breads makes that simpler. I always use whole wheat flour, I find King Arthur the best, because it is finely milled and it makes for a smoother dough. Rule of thumb 1/2 as much liquid as flour. So if I am using 1 cup of flour, I use 1/2 cup water (I often use a tablespoon of whey or even yogurt or kefir - adds a little more flavor to the roti) and salt usually between 1/2 & 1 tsp. The dough is always going to be a little different. If the dough is sticky, I add a little more flour, just enough to make sure it is not sticky. I roll it in a ball and coat it in olive oil then let it rest for at least 15 minutes but usually overnight. (Soaking the dough helps remove the phytic acid, making the nutrients more available. This also makes for a more flavorful roti, as it will sour a little.) I knead the dough briefly to mix in the oil, then roll into little balls, which I flatten and roll in flour until I roll them into disks about 6". The trick with rotis is to make sure your pan is in the right heat zone. Too cool, and the roti will just sit on the pan without puffing, too hot and the roti will burn. I normally use a medium hot...it will be different on every stove. Often my first roti wont puff. If it doesn't puff a little, it will be too dense and a little unpleasant to eat. I just remove it and raise the temp before adding the next roti. Once I have the right temp and the rotis puff before burning, I add the original roti back on. Usually within a few seconds it will puff. I use a spatula to press down on the areas that don't puff, to encourage them to puff. ( I only press down on the cooked side, so not until I have flipped the roti at least 1 time.) I think I generally get about a dozen rotis per cup of flour. I don't usually try seasoning them with anything until they are cooked, because I use them for everything. I have slathered with peanut butter, and sprinkled choco chips and covered with a second roti, back on the grill. I make grilled sandwiches with them, eat scrambled eggs in them, use them for tacos/burritos, heat them, and coat them with cinnamon and sugar, they make great quesadillas, and I even throw them back on the griddle on low heat/or in the oven until they get crispy, and use them for crackers.
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Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
Oh man.
I use Annie's Honey Whole Wheat bread all the time, and it calls for 2 pkg yeast for 6 cups flour.

AnnT posted hamburger rolls that calls for 2 1/4 tsp yeast for 4 1/2 cups flour, and another roll recipe that calls for 1 tbsp yeast for 3 3/4 cups flour.

So you can understand why I'm confused that 7 1/2 cups flour and using only 2 1/4 tsp yeast is correct.
dgkritch
12 years ago
As the yeast "eat" the sugars, they release gas and your bread rises (I know, not a very appealing thought).

They will eat.
It will rise.

Just a matter of how many yeast there are and how fast the gasses are created as to how long it takes.

Deanna
annie1992
12 years ago
I agree, the question isn't whether it will rise, it's how long it will take to rise.

Ann T likes bread that rises slowly, which gives a different flavor to the bread than adding more yeast and getting a quick rise. She often keeps dough in the refrigerator for a couple of days and gets an even more developed flavor. I find that similar to sourdough, which I don't care for if it gets too "sour" but Elery loves it, the more sour the better.

That Honey Wheat calls for a lot of yeast, my family likes the sweet and yeasty flavor in that loaf, but if I'm making a plain white loaf I use less yeast and get a different flavor.

My family also loves Sol's Honey Rolls and those are soft, puffy, sweet, yeasty rolls too.

So, the bread will rise, it will just take longer and you'll get a less definitive "yeast" flavor. Some people like that, some don't. As usual, taste is subjective, not objective, so whatever you and your family likes.

Annie
happyday
12 years ago
I've tried to bake bread, always get a sunken lump. The last recipe I used called for a first rise, punch it down, get a second rise, shape and bake at something like 375.

Can I just mix and knead the dough, put it right into the baking pans for the first rise, which is always the best rise, then bake it at 400 or 450? I could put the pans in the oven to rise, then when it's puffed up, just turn on the heat.

Am using 9x5 loaf pans, have non-stick metal and cast iron. How long would I bake it?

The cast iron loaf pans are new and seasoned black but I should still wash them before using the first time, right? Like a rinse with water, not soap.
jimster
12 years ago
I am always amazed that NYT No Knead bread rises so well with only 1/4 tsp. of yeast. It's a long rise of course.

Jim
shambo
12 years ago
Annie, I think you explained it well. More yeast in the dough means a faster rise and also a yeastier tasting bread product. Less yeast means a slower rise and the development of more complex flavors. Again, as you already said, neither method is "right." It's all subjective. And a lot depends on how much time you are willing to devote to letting the dough rise.

I would venture to say that most lean or artisinal style breads need a long, slow rise to develop flavor. Breads that include sweeteners, eggs, or dairy products taste fine with that yeasty undertone.
Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
I'll cut back on the yeast in my honey whole wheat and white bread, as advised. It doesn't matter to me, how much longer it takes to rise, for the most part.

I'll try your method Teresa, using 2 1/4 tsp yeast for the 6 cups. Perhaps I should use a bit more yeast, because I use 4 cups whole wheat and 2 cups white flour.
teresa_nc7
12 years ago
No "knead" to use more yeast when using whole wheat flour - I use the same amount of yeast even when making 100% whole wheat bread. I actually don't really even measure the yeast exactly....I just scoop out the SAF instant yeast with a tablespoon measure, to give me a scant one tablespoon.

Teresa
sally2_gw
12 years ago
The first time I ever tried doubling a bread recipe, I doubled the yeast, and recreated "The Blob" from Steve McQueen's movie. That's when I learned that large amounts of yeast aren't necessarily necessary. I have made Annie's bread, though, and it turned out wonderful. I've made AnnT's recipe, also, and loved it too. I love that bread baking is so forgiving, flexible, and magical.

Happy Day, when I bake my usual loaf bread, I do the first rise in a bowl (Although after Christmas, I'll get to use a dough rising bucket!). Then I make the loaves, let them rise in their pans, then stick them in the oven when they've risen enough to put into the oven. There are much more accomplished bread bakers on this forum, though.

Sally
Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
Oh, you're using instant yeast, Teresa. Accordingly, I should use a bit more yeast than your tbsp.

I'll play around with it this weekend and see how it works out.
I'll put a sticky note, I'm so used to just using my 4 1/2 tsp, which is 1 tbsp and 1 1/2 tsp. I can just use 1 tbsp, and see how it fares. (My honey whole wheat).

I really don't mean to be over-thinking this, and agonizing over the measurements. Just seems to be contradicting amounts.
teresa_nc7
12 years ago
There is not a lot of difference between measuring instant yeast and active yeast. I wouldn't worry about adding more. If you decide you really want to "get into" bread making, I would suggest you order some SAF yeast online and keep it on hand for your bread making. So much more economical than the little envelopes! I buy a pound package, pour part of it in a glass jar to keep in the fridge, then seal up the bag and keep the rest of the yeast in a zip bag in the freezer where it can stay a long, long time.

Teresa
User
12 years ago
Annie, Like you I'm not a big fan of sour dough breads. I only grew a sour dough starter so I could make bread for Matthew. He loves sour dough.

One of the reasons I like a long slow rise is for the more developed flavour but without the "sour".

Ann
Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
I buy my yeast at the bulk store and put in smaller jar(s) in the freezer. I bought the little jar from the store once, and now keep my yeast in the frig in that. The rest goes in the freezer.

I don't like sourdoughs either. I've made the no-knead bread where it rises in 18 or so hours. That is good!!

I also love Bumblebeez' buttermilk rolls that rise in the frig overnight.

So I'll cut back on the yeast, and let it rise, however long it wants to.
happyday
12 years ago
Sally, thanks for the tip. I'll try that next time.
Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
Happyday, I'm guessing, by your words "a sunken lump" that the bread has over-risen.

If you put them in your loaf pans after shaping, don't let them rise to the size you want them to be, after baking.

Let them rise to the top of the bread pans, or a little higher. They will rise higher, when they hit the heat of the oven. This is "oven spring".

If you let them rise far higher, before baking, they will rise even higher, with the heat of the oven, then fall.
annie1992
12 years ago
Happyday, I agree that you are overproofing your bread, probably. If you let it rise too high it will collapse on itself and you'll get that sunken lump. Ask me how I know. (grin)

Ann T, I do bread dough overnight and it's good, I've done it up to two days in the fridge and it's good, but I keep it more than that I it seems to develop a flavor that I find similar to mild sourdough. Elery loves it, so he's always hoping that I don't have time to bake that dough, LOL.

jasdip, you won't find a consistent yeast amount in bread recipes. Some have more and some have less, depending on the flavor the originator of the recipe was shooting for and liked. As has been mentioned, bread is simple and forgiving, you can use more yeast or less, you can use whole wheat or white or off brand flour, oil or butter or none, milk, water, coffee, whatever and it will usually come out just fine.

I just made a loaf for Elery that took a cup of liquid, I used 3/4 cup of water and 1/4 cup of Sriracha sauce, along with a bit of dry mustard and some black pepper. White whole wheat in place of all purpose. He loved it, I'm not even tempted to try it! I had seen a similar recipe on the internet, but I didn't feel like looking it up, so I made it from what passes for my memory and it was still just fine and an absolutely beautiful color.

Annie
lindac
12 years ago
Yeast is a loving thing....given food (flour and/or sugar) it grows. More yeast "fills" the bread with yeast faster and it rises faster, less yeast takes longer to grow to "fill"t he bread and make it rise. Temperature also affects how fast the yeast grown....warmer and it grows faster....too hot and you kill it, too cold and it hibernates. It has been said yeast is like a a baby it needs to be kept warn out of drafts and fed often, so it will grow and flourish.
Asking how much yeast is enough to make your bread rise is a little like asking how many rabbits it will take to populate a meadow....it depends....just 2 will do the job but it will take longer.
That's why no knead bread can be made with just 1/4 tsp fo yeast!
Linda C
Jasdip
Original Author
12 years ago
Great comments Annie and Linda.

Srirachi Sauce Annie??? Wowzers!
triciae
12 years ago
Jasdip, here's a good primer on yeast from King Arthur Flour. You seem to bake bread quite frequently. That also makes a difference. Your bread will rise faster due to the wild yeast present in your environment. Somebody making their first loaf of bread may experience a slower rise. If they keep baking bread though that rise period will lessen.

/tricia

Here is a link that might be useful: KA Yeast Primer
happyday
12 years ago
Jasdip and Annie, thanks for the tips. I was following this recipe and blog
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/lessons/yourfirstloaf

It rose well the first time, punched it down, then either didn't give it long enough to rise the second time before baking, or maybe it ran out of food and died off/quit rising. It seems more likely that it failed to rise, than that it rose too much and collapsed. Now I have an oven window so I can watch and find out.

I washed my new cast iron loaf pans and have them seasoning in the oven now, will try putting the dough right in them for the first rise, then bake, and see if that fixes it. This time I also have bread flour and gluten flour, instead of just the cheap all purpose flour. Maybe I'll throw in some Sriracha sauce too, that stuff is great, it cures rheumatism!

Quick Question about Yeast Ratio in Bread

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