Same here!

Over in Ontario I haven't heard anything bad about the service and people have been helpful. I'm very happy with mine so far! (Though its not as cool as yours :)

Nothing I've read anywhere (and I've read it ALL!!) states this.

FWIW, what we call "profile wash" here is called "cold fill" in Europe, and it is there that you will find more discussion of the advantage of cold-fill machines (since few exist over here). It is really just a way of dealing with some well-known indisputable facts: (1) Many staind set in hot, or even warm water; (2) For those that don't, warm or hot water cleans better; (3) the enzymes in enzymatic powders get killed at higher temperatures. Obviously, you can also get similar results by, for example, soaking stained clothes in cold water w/enzymatic powder; doing a warm wash; then doing a hotter wash if necessary. Thus, you are completely correct that cold-fill machines can't remove stains that other machines won't; it just automates a certain fiddly process.

While your LG rep is right that most FL problems are due to user error, there have been some egregious problems reported on this forum with respect to LG machines (and most of the other brands!) that were clearly not the customer's fault. LG in the US seems to have been less good than their competitors at dealing with these problems. (The incident with the persom whose 3-month-old 2277 rusted, and LG wouldn't take any responsibility, is the point at which I stopped suggesting LG to people looking for washing machines.) Hopefully your experience in Canada will be better.

BTW, when your machines get delivered, can you let us know where they were manufactured? Rumor has it that they are shifting their production facilities out of Korea. It should say on the label on the edge of the door frame. - DR

perhaps it's just me, but shouldn't you expect to get good reports from sales (who get paid to tell), engineers. who designed it and may mot want to admit problems)and customer service/ who are paid to turn in good customer service statistics). This doesn't seem like a very representative sample it you are looking for unbiased information on a product. If all you were looking for is responsiveness, you may have a feel for that.

DROSS: Thanks for your informative post as always. I will definitely let you know where the machines were manufactured...I'm taking delivery tommorrow!!

ALICEINWONDERLAND: I can fully assure you that I was as critical and skeptical as one can be in my discussions with the LG representatives I discussed at the beginning of this thread (comes natural to me as I am a lawyer...lol). I most definitely did NOT get a biased review/report from these two gentleman as they were very critical of some of their other appliances as I mentioned, and also asked me if I was installing on concrete etc etc and thus didn't avoid the levelling issues either.

Further, I initially contacted LG 1-800 customer service who very responsibly gave me the cell phone numbers of these two more knowledgeable individuals when they themselves couldn't fully answer my questions. As mentioned, I spoke at length with both a service technician and sales rep and they described various demonstrations they had done in training etc etc.

Believe it or not...I mentioned that LG sold Gas dryer in Washington state (10mins from me here in B.C.) and not in Canada yet U.S. purchased warranty wouldn't transfer. LG sales rep was so kind that he has asked me to call him back as he is going to inquire with his senior management to see if they can honor the warranty cross-border for me.

Now THAT is excellent service!!!

So NO, no bias involved with these guys, and they were absolutely candid in their remarks about their brand and what I can expect.

After extensive research and it being rated number 1 in the consumer report I also ordered the LG 2487 in white, I really wanted the red because they are so beautiful but I wasn't brave enough. I was afraid I would get sick of the color after a few years. After reading this post to DH he said, "see you should have gotten the red" I am going to think on it and may make a phone call to the sales rep tomorrow.

I too was going to go with the Bosch nexxt because it was rated number 2 in the consumers report but I wasn't fussy about the buttons being on the top. I wanted to go with a built in look and I would need the buttons on the front. It was the red LG's in the show room that got my attention. Actually it got everyones attention. It was like a crowd of people standing around a red Lamborghini.

I canÂt wait to get mine on the 21st.

Thanks for the post; it made me real happy with my decision.

SUGAR AND SPICE: Your welcome! And YES, listen to DH and get the red!! Heck, you may look sideways at it down the road, but that's years away if ever and in the meantime, your guests will be staring at it in wonder in the meantime! lol

Seriously though, for the money they cost you HAVE to get the red or may as well step down a couple of models and get the nice silver WM2277.

I too am one to not base much on looks, but when a laundry set is so overwhelmingly attention grabbing as compared to any other set on the market...you simply HAVE to factor looks into the equation.

They do look so kool at night with the Super-Bright LED on in the tub. :)

What did he say about the "2nd floor install issue" ?

I need a W&D for my 2nd floor laundry room... does that mean that I shouldn't go with LG ?

"Profile washes" actually go beyond just being cold-fill. There is also the agitation to consider, along with the temperature-curve. Any computer machine will fill with cold water, wet the laundry thoroughly, then proceed to raise the temperature in stages - in particular, holding the "enzyme activation phase" (which is around 40 degrees Celsius) for a number of minutes (varies according to manufacturer). This is so that protein and starchy stains can be more easily broken up.

If you use a hotter cycle, the same still applies, but the temperature will rise again, after a set number of minutes for the enzyme activation phase.

Some front-loaders (european) also vary the agitation: alternating between normal and faster tumbling or introducing low speed spin-bursts for a few seconds at a time. Some have a jet-spray recirculation pump that re-introduces the wash solution back into the laundry. The Dyson machines (now discontinued) had the contra-rotating drums to flex the laundry sufficiently, but only at certain stages in the cycle.

rolls, it was obvious already from your second line that you live in Europe. Alas, here in the US, the only large-drum FL machine that can fill with cold water and heat to temp is the Bosch Nexxt. Many other models have onboard heaters which only work as a boost for warm fills, or in select temperatures, and do not profile the temperature curve.

In other words, what you take for granted is a 'special feature' in the US machines, which is why one needs to point it out. - DR

Dross & others:

As I've mentioned I just purchased the LG WM2487 washer/dryer set and a detailed report is coming soon!!

However, I did try the sanitary cycle, and to let you know, my machine filled with cold water and little by little through this lengthy cycle, the water temp was raised until scorching hot (I paused the machine several times through the cycle to check water temp).

So could this be the LG version of the "lauded" profile wash?

According to the LG WM2688 Service Manual in the TROUBLESHOOTING SECTION, under the heading "WASH HEATER TROUBLE- HEATING CONTINUOUSLY ABOVE THE SETTING WATER TEMPERATURE", it lists the target temperatures for the various settings.

Extra Hot: 70 °C
Hot: 50 °C
Warm: 40 °C
Cold: 30 °C

It seems silly to have a troubleshooting section concerning heating of the wash temperature if it wasn't supposed to do so.

Also, in the section- "NEURO FUZZY WASHING TIME OPTIMIZATION", it talks about how the actual time for a wash is a function of:

1) water temperature
2) selected washing temperature
3) load size

All of which determine the final time for the wash. I would assume one of the main factors in figuring time would be to attain the temp in 2) from the initial temp in 1).

Yes, the LG, and all other machines with a sanitary cycle, will heat from fill temp in the 'sanitary' cycle; how else can a temp higher than the hot water heater temp be attained? I am surprised to hear the LG fills from cold in this cycle, all earlier reports were that it filled from both taps. Most machines in Europe, and the Bosch NeXXt in the US, can fill from cold in any cycle. If you have a stained cotton shirt, profile wash is great, but you probably don't want to wash it at 170F!

As for the manual, in the fall of 2005 there was a long thread in which several LG owners were upset because their machines fell a few degrees short of the machine's promised temperatures. When they called LG, they were told that the published temps were just ball-park/target figures that might not be attained in practice. IMO a few degrees doesn't make much difference, but these owners were miffed because they'd bought the LG because in part because it beat the Whirlpools on this spec. - DR

It's never been 100% clear if the LG machines use their internal water heater in all cycles. Over the past couple of years sometimes people thought that was true and others were not so sure. From the service manual description above it sounds like it may be true. Has anyone been able to confirm the detail of how the water heater operates in the various settings?

The Program Cycle Chart on Page 14 of the service manual shows Cycle #6 in all of the programs as a Heat Cycle. I would assume it uses a "mix" of hot and cold water intake to come close to the desirable wash temp, and then heats from there, as the water will cool down as it mixes with the cool clothing. That part is just a guess by me, but that's how I would program it.

I suppose you could shut off the hot water tap to the washer forcing it to fill with cold only, and see if the wash time dramatically increases. It should.

BTW, you can see the water temp at any time by pressing WASH/RINSE and the SOIL buttons at the same time. (Pg. 26 of the Service Manual)

I suppose you could shut off the hot water tap to the washer forcing it to fill with cold only, and see if the wash time dramatically increases. It should.

It might go to infinity; some machines will simply not function without the hot water being connected. (For example, the HE*ts - at least the older ones - would stop with an error message with the hot tap off, and with a T from the cold tap to both inputs it would run but not reach target temperature. The Danby on the other hand can run off a T and heat from cold with no problem.)

In fact, it would be great if someone with an LG would shut off the hot, run the machine, monitor the temp, and see if it actually gets up to/near max temp in a variety of cycles, if so that would be an important 'found' functionality of the machines. - DR

SR712, your info on the LGs is greatly appreciated.

I own my THIRD Tromm Steamwasher (in blue) and always wondered what the target wash temperatures were. I guess the "dumbed down" US consumer is not deemed worthy of such scientific information!

BTW, the first 2 washers and first dryer were duds. The washer arrived dented and delivery guys and myself agreed to not even install it. The second washer made a horrible grinding sound and the first washer was incredibly noisy. The second washer may have been damaged between Korea and the US, but it certainly didn't help that the stupid delivery people unpacked it from the carton, and put their tools in the DRUM, before dragging it up our 100ft. drive on a dolly! They also removed the shipping bolts before positioning the machine in the laundry room , and refused to level either the washer or the dryer, saying, "they work themselves out" !

I tried to get the delivery guys to listen to me, but to no avail. Finally after many phone calls, and days waiting at home, Ihad a working washer and dryer pair. I think it took over 3 weeks from purchase to get both working!

I do like my machines, although I have some slight problems with the washer making 'ticking' noises on the spin cycle. I wish the Miele's had been available last year, so I could have compared those.

Please let us know more info on troubleshooting and wash performance. For example what are the diff. spin speeds? What temp and spin speed is the tub clean cycle?

Thanks!

bargainacious,

Here is the info you want:

=========================

Posted by sr712 (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 6, 07 at 11:34

I am creating this post because I just can't find, when I need it, the original post I got this information from. On this site you can find Service and Owners Manuals for the complete LG line of consumer goods. This includes their TROMM Washer and Dryers (Discovery line). [...] Also there are installation (includes leveling) and disassembly videos. [...]

Manuals
Videos

Other LG Appliances are there, too. Just poke around the directories.

=========================

HTH, Alex

Thank You!

Well I have just joined the ranks of proud owner of the LG FL Steamwasher and dryer. And cherry red too (who would ever have thought?) Did my due diligence checking out the Consumer Review info and then Googled my way to this site. After reading a lot of postings here I was pretty sure an LG it would be.
I've been waiting for my old washer to call it quits for awhile now. I've always had to clean a layer of black dust from beneath it whenever I washed the laundryroom floor. Last time I found a piece of worn metal that had most likely fallen off one of the machines workings and it's been unsure whether it was in normal or gentle cycle mode the last couple of weeks. So when I saw it on sale at Home Depot this past weekend I grabbed my paperwork and lasood my husband and away we went. Of course he thinks I am being reckless but even he came around when he got a look at them and the salesman and I told him about all the ratings and features and the efficiency and how much less water would be going into our septic system. The price is always an issue for my husband but it helped to know about the energy star rebate, the store specials and the long term savings. We are psyched.
We will be having them stacked (there's a special kit you can purchase). I did like the pedestal drawers but space is at a premium in my laundry room and we will probably be taking these machines with us when we downsize living quarters in a few years.
As it happened, the LG rep was at the Home Depot and answered a few questions that the salesman (who was very knowledgeable) was unsure of. For example, the steam feature is not really meant to take the place of drycleaning which is done with chemicals. It's more of a freshening wrinkle remove session for lighter clothes that get squished in the closet (which is just about everything in our old house). The steamwash feature is meant to be used in conjunction with the washing cycle and my husband is looking forward to melting the ring around the collar from his white dress shirts that is such a pain to get out. He's a greasy guy.
Another thing he mentioned to make sure of was that the installer removed the 4 shipping bolts on each machine that hold the drums in place during shipping and make sure we keep the bolts for if we ever move the machines. One final thing. Because I had read on one of FL forums about vibration due to high spin speed. I asked him about it and he gave me the contact info at LG to order the vibration pads for under each foot. The Home Depot salesman was interested in this info also. Apparently you have to get them directly from LG. The number for LG Part & Service is 800-243-0000. The vibration pad part # he gave me was 462OER3001B which he said cost around $20. When I called they said the equivalent part is 4620ER4002B and they are $6.52 each or $26.08 for 4. I figured it was easier than trying to find a stable pad and cut it down to size. Keep in mind if you think vibration might be an issue for you order the pads a week or so ahead so you have them when the machine gets installed. O.K. one more final thing. The Home Depot salesman said NOT TO SIGN until everything is set up and checked for any dents or scratches and that the installer should do a 6 pound test load to make sure everything is working properly (no leaks, level, spin, etc,) BEFORE you sign on the delivery line. So, I should be ready for them when they are delivered next Saturday.

As those of you who purchased the beautiful LG washer/dryers are patting yourselves on the back. Take a look at the condition of your tops. I bet that they aren't as nice looking as they were on the day you bought them. This is because, although LG says that the lids are porcelain coated... they aren't.
I purchased a set in Feb. '07 and within a day, the tops were blemmished and scratched. I asked LG to investigate and they admitted that they switched from porcelain coated tops to regular painted tops. Turns out that the folks who sold me mine did not know this. If you want a nice looking and durable finish, you'll want porcelain. If you bought LG's Tromm, you just paid for porcelain, and did not receive it. Would you spray "Shout" stain remover on the hood of your car? Would you slide a laundry basket across the hood of your car? Probably not. Well, you wouldn't want to do this with your beautiful Tromm either. If you purchased a Tromm, you may wish to inquire whether you received what you paid for.

We almost bought the LG Tromm...but the closest LG certified repair tech is more than 40 miles away...can be as much as two hours travel-time depending on traffic. I didn't want to have to deal with service calls once the things were out of warranty. (The Bosch tech lives less than ten minutes from my house.)

SO--that's why we went with Bosch. Maybe by the time I retire THIS pair of Bosch's enough LG's will be around there'll be a local repair person.