Not to argue over the unknown, but I can say from memory support for W98SE was dropped last year, six+ years after W-Whatever, forget its name, and six years after w2K. I don't expect them to drop XP any time soon. I just looked up information on the Dell C521 we purchased in December of 2006, it was under $600 before tax, so less than the subject Gateway of this thread. This Dell had the AMD 64 and 1 GByte of memory, but a much smaller HDD than the subject Gateway. It also has the 5 slot memory card input and a 17" LCD, so that says to me the Gateway price isn't particularly low. And speaking of our Dell and Vista, the Dell came with a "free" upgrade to Vista that had to be exercised by March 31. So, to be safe, and to pay only $10 S&H, I ordered our free upgrade to Vista Premium. I will not be in any hurry to implement it, and will have to see if it comes with a activation time requirement. The only statement this makes to me about upcoming Microsoft policy for XP is they want to get people on Vista so that it will be easier to provide support and to drop XP. Given what I paid for the Dell I can safely assume Dell paid the OEM for Vista and MS give them the XP Media to use until Vista (late as usual for MS) was available. Speaking of MS making money, a neighbor told me today (I have no proof, other than it sounds like the action of those who are paid way TOO much), the number 2 an MS, I forget his name, just had the largest private yacht in the world built for him, $400 million, don't remember the length but think it is several hundred feet, a crew of 65 (suppose some of them are off while others are on duty, not all on the ship at the same time), and an operating cost of 20 Million. So, MS clearly has to worry about making money off the Vista right away otherwise the top officers will not be able to buy a fleet of yachts next year.

HEY !! I am here in Banff ! I am at a coffee shop with free wifi...only thing free in this very expensive place. It is gorgeous here. Look for lots of pics in a while to be uploaded . Karl and Pete are OK and so am I . We had no access to computer along the Icefield Jasper road. We camped in Prov. Parks and no hot water either. guess which I would prefer LOL !! I missed you ALL !! Thank you for thinking about me. XXO and I will get back on the computer later. Having bike fixed ..again. c Sunday June 24th 25 miles/10.5 avg/ 2:27 pedal time 30 mph max I forgot something important from yesterday ...don't I always ? So I will cathc up from there. When we arrived at the very first road wash out we met Bryan the Hwy Dept worker. He had another guy there with him who is an AUBURN Graduate ! Wow...how likely is that going to happen ? He was there when Bo Jackson played and Building L was still in existence LOL. He said Wiley Hartzog was one of his profs. That is not someone I know. But we did have a nice few minutes to chat about auburn. He still has friends there. Last night we were both so tired and the rain was coming down so we slept great !! Pete had so much to do with his tires this AM that he was up at 5:30 AM !! aarrggghh. I didn't get up. I put my earplugs back in and rested for another hour. We packed up and I had the rest of my 500 gram cup of Greek yogurt and a banana. We then walked back over the road to the cafe from last night and I had my regulation 2 cups of coffee with 2 creams and sugar and a whole grain bagel toasted with butter and raspberry jam. We checked out of the Yellowhead Motel and rode to the gas station at the corner. Pete looked up and we saw the by now familiar Canadian Road Trucks with flashing yellow lights and men in orange vests...oh no. He went in to get a bottle of water and I was sent to talk to them. It was the idiot from the day before at washout number 2...I hope you are keeping notes as this just gets better and better LOL ! ! So "dumb dumb" says the road is out. I say well yes but that isn't the way we are going...and he says well it is out and you can't go to Jasper. I said but we were told they fixed the road last night. Hmmm...he says that ANOTHER road washed out at 3:20 AM. aaarrggh. He then says we can get as far as Mt Robson. Since the washout is past there and it is the whole road. I say " you are on " ! And I run in the gas station store to get Pete. This would at least put us 25 miles further up the road. He says lets go fast. I need toothpaste and then we are off. We go about 2 miles and guess what we see ??? Oh you are ahead of me on this aren't you ??? We see....drum roll here...a Canadian Road Work Truck and flashing lights !! Yes indeed the creek has stopped running and they won't let us go past it. I ask if that isn't a good thing and of course I know that it isn't but the road is dry after all :) He says NO !! You have to wait till the backhoe gets here. And sure enough we hear one coming fast up the road. The problem of course is that the creek stops running due to debris...like logs and rocks that wash down the mountain. If it is left blocked then it floods up and over the debris and washes out everything below. Scene repeats over and over . They got it cleared in about 30 min. and we were off. Mostly downhill and very relaxing. We headed up past Tete Jeune Cache and on towards Mt Robson. We get to an area where the Fraser River has the highest falls of its course. This is where only the most hardy Chinook salmon get back to. Pete and I hiked down to see. Whew...the Fraser is SO high that it is almost up to the observation area. The wood is wet. I get great picks and then get out of there. It is really amazing and scary. I later reported the deep danger and they said they would go and post a "keep out" sign. Good Idea. They have been so preoccupied with the roads. Anyway back to the salmon. They live 7 years The males and females return to where they were spawned and then they spawn and then they die. The babies go back to the ocean and then in 7 years they make there way back to the exact spot they were spawned. How do they know ???? Pete says they all have an inner GPS...funny guy that Pete. We entered Mt Robson which is a Prov Park. A very very nice park. The day had been sunny and then got more and more cloudy and cool . We were told to go one and get a camping area and get set up and then come back to the cafe and get something to eat. So that is what we did. None too soon as it happens. It started to rain. Sheesh...give me a break will you ??! We hurried and got all done. I got us a site right next to the bath house. My priority every day is a hot shower. No matter what !! I found the "family room" shower and it was huge and had a handicap area with a regular handle and not a push button shower...sorry Pete ( he got the push button shower in the men's room )....it was wonderful. We put on our raincoats and walked back a mile to the cafe/visitor's center. We had a very expensive lunch....a steak/mushroom pot pie...good but small and a very nice fresh salad...10.50 !! We then sat and talked as it was pouring out. This is of course the last thing the Hwy dept needs. After a while the rain stopped and the sky lightened and the SUN came out !! Absolutely gorgeous. The sky is radiant and a lapis lazuli blue. Mt Robson , in all it's glory peaked through the clouds and then it cleared completely. We sat on the deck of the Visitor's center and talked and looked at the map for the Icefield parkway. This is where we will head from here..when they get the road open. Jasper is the start of it and it goes 280 km down to Banff. We will stop at 3 hostels on the way. I decided I was hungry so back to the cafe and I had a large slice of warm mixed berry pie and a large scoop of "hard ice cream" , as they call it here 6.95.... Pete had 2 day old muffins 1.75 a piece. We then walked back to the camp and washed out our clothes and hung them to dry in the SUN and BREEZE ! Lovely. I took my panniers off and rode back with Karl and he got to have his picture taken. He was ecstatic. We chatted with several folks. A couple from Dusseldorf who are biking from Calgary to Vancouver. So they did the Icefields in reverse. They have almost nothing with them. They stay in hostels and buy all their food so they don't cook in camp. They got through the road closing this AM by going through the woods !! When the highway men saw them they yelled at them and told them to get out of there !! No wonder it was very fool hardy. They are young and dumb I guess. I rode back to camp and decided to type this although there is no internet in the area. The VC won't let anyone use it anymore since they had some kind of privacy thing happen. We have purchased some mosquito coils and they are lit and smoking. They work great. Our only mistake so far was not stopping at a liquor store in Valemont on Saturday night ! What were we thinking ??? Oh well...sober is good :) Pete has just left to walk over again to the VC and see if there is any news. Maybe we will get out tomorrow. All highways are currently blocked in all of BC . Even the Trans Canada. Valemont is having to boil their water. So booze is probably being sold. There were some folks going to the grocery store but I was too slow on the uptake and missed the ride. Sigh. We will have to wait and see what happens next. What an adventure. There is a wonderful hike to a lake up 3 miles on Mt Robson. If we are here tomorrow Pete and I are going to do it. So we are good no matter what. Later... As it turned out we made friends with 4 guys that were all going into town. They offered to make a pick up for us. I went along and chatted with the young men . They were all 24-26 and really great kids. Two were civil engineers and one was an apprentice builder in Vancouver and had just completed working on the new sea wall there. The last was in the army reserve in Canada and continuing his studies. We made our purchases and started back to camp. The town was packed with people waiting for the road to open. When we got back to camp Dave ( from England) and Sean and Levi ( from Edmonton ) and Barry from Edmonton , set up their camp by ours . They played frisbee and drank beer and Pete and I had a bottle of wine and dinner and we all had a great time. Monday; 66 miles/10.5 avg Fast forward to the AM. I will never know what happened but Pete and I walked to breakfast and when we got back I noticed my bike computer was gone. Great. The evening before my 2nd kickstand broke and was not fixable. Pete and I set off on our ride. It was a long day to Jasper but a great ride. We were going along just fine and Pete saw a bear right by the road. He yelled at me to stop and I said "no !" . Then I thought better of it and decided I would get a picture. I stopped...Pete was trying to get out his camera with one hand ( like Allen used to do :) ) and he ran full speed into my stopped bike. Oh boy...I went flying as did Pete You can see the pics. My bike rack was broken on the rear and Pete's knee was scraped. We did get pics of the bear...he watched us and probably wondered what the hell was wrong with the stupid humans. We had seen the momma bear and 2 cubs before we saw the male. We didn't stop for her :) We rode on after Pete fixed my rack with 2 spliced spare spokes and electric tape. We got into Jasper and went immediately to the bike shop in town. He said he was there till 10 PM and so we left and went back 3 km to the Whistler c/g and got a site...$21 a night. Very beautiful site. I got my shower and as I was getting dressed I dropped my glass bear amulet and broke the part that holds it on the rops. At that point I lost it...Pete was kind enough to give me hug when I got back to camp. We rode into town and left the bikes. I decided not to get a new computer...mindfulness will have to do . I also decided to leave the rack alone as Pete's fix was perfect. I did have the guy clean the chain and he also sold me what has turned out to be a very good kickstand ( this one is the old fashioned kind like I used to have ..should have stuck with that type i the first place). Pete and I went to the laundromat and we did the laundry and I called Robert on facetime. I told him I am not going to send out anymore emails for awhile. I am worn out with all that keeps happening and want to just get my focus back. We then went to Cassio's and had a marvelous Italian dinner. I had a lovely Ceasar salad with gran padano cheese and then a manicotti stuffed with veal and a lovely sauce. It was a huge dinner !! Pete had an amazing burger and fries. I for got to mention what it was like to ride on the Yellowhead with wide loads coming. In my mirror I would see a truck coming and it would have lights flashing on it...as he would get even with us he would toot his horn...then he would go on...you would then have a minute to GET OFF THE ROAD...as it was a wide load and they take 1/2 of the shoulder !! Chilling experience but you sure get fast at getting off of the road. We forgot to set out clocks forward an hour so we ran to the bike shop and got the bikes. All was good. We rode to the campground. Had some JD and slept well till 6:30 AM. Tuesday 52 miles/9.4 avg/5:30 pedal time Up and ready we rode our unloaded bikes into Jasper..it is 3 k each way and had breakfast at same place. 2 eggs over easy and hashbrowns, 2 slices of toast and jam and 2 strips of bacon and a slice of tomat...2 cups coffee with lots of cream and sugar. All set. We then went to the grocery and I got 2 more canned chicken, one more Knorr dinner, a pint of blueberries, a qt of raspberry full fat yogurt, 3 oranges, 3 apples, 2 bananas and 2 different kinds of cinnamon rolls. All for $20. We went back to camp and loaded up the bikes and headed down the Icefield Prky. Has wide shoulders and all were in very good cond. till near the end of the day. We stopped at the Athabasca Falls and got pics. We had a long day due to LONG climbs and then the Suwapti Pass too. We are now in Jonas Creek c/g and we have a wood cookstove. You can see it in the pic of Karl and the end of the JD. It is amazing and puts out huge heat. It is exactly like what my grandmother used to cook on. I want one now for sure. It is great to use and draws very well and takes very little wood. Such a wonderful day. cap site $15.70 and we are right on the creek. Pics to follow. At one point we stopped by a viewing area to rest and get a drink. There were no bathrooms but there was a huge RV with the 4 popouts. They were asking us about the bike ride. I casually mentioned that it was too bad there weren't any bathrooms at the rest stop. The lady said "come inside and use ours " . Cool. I have never been inside one of these huge RV's. She had everything in there. An oven and washer/dryer and lots of furniture. It was pretty cool. Can only imagine how much gas it takes to run it. Although I bet our food bill would give it a run for it's money LOL. I told Pete we should total up all the cost of food for the trip and see what it is and compare to an RV rental/gas. We are probably more expensice. We stopped at Sunwapati Falls and had lunch. These resturants have you as there is nothing else up here. We each had a bowl of very good beef stew and a roll. 9.75. Lots of hills and more hills...we are in the Rockies so why am I surprised. When we got to Jonas Creek I had a "pan bath" with cold water and even washed my hair. A very chilling experience I can tell you . Wednesday June 27th -40 miles and 10.4 avg So we were riding along and it was 12:51 PM...just past noon. I hit a big bump, something I was trying to avoid due to the mended rear rack which was still holding but just barely. I heard something fall off of the bike and I saw something black bounce. I yelled at Pete that I was stopping and got off the bike and ran back to find....my bike computer on the shoulder . WTF !! How could this be ???? Pete said he had no idea. We finally puzzled it out sort of. When he turned my bike upside down to try and fix the kick stand he knocked the computer off. He didn't realize it. He had checked the ground as did I but it must have lodged somewhere on the bike although we can't figure where. Anyway I am back in business with the data. We saw a group of 4 mt sheep in a parking lot..they look thin and funny as they are losing their winter coats. Stopped at Icefield Center after the 2 mile climb up to it. It was so cold and slow !! We had a bowl of chili and cheese...9.75 !! The rack rebroke and Pete put in the spokes now on both sides. It seems to be more stable now but will have to replace asap. Rampart Creek c/g tonight. Great place. Hot water on our wood stove so my pan bath was more comfortable and I filled my water bottle with hot water and used it to squirt my hair and wash it again :) Luxury !! Saw a bear along side the road. We haven't seen too many though. Hills and wind. Coming down from the Icefields was very frightening . The wind off of the glaciers is so cold and strong. I used my breaks for sure. Thursday. June 28th 41 miles and 8.7 avg ( approx) We are still on the parkway and we now have Bow Pass today..note the lower avg mph . It is 5 miles up. Not bad but slow. I later learned that my cables needed replacement when I got to Lake Louise I had that done at a great bike shop. Took Rob's pic as he did a great job. We climbed and had head winds. It is beautiful but you really have to watch the road. As we were coming down a long descent I was going about 25 mph and saw folks stopped by the roadside . This means that there is some wild life to see. It was a grizzly !! We didn't stop :) We camped at Mosquito creek. A gorgeous c/g . NIce as there are no mossies. Lots of pics and we rested as we got in early due to the downhills. Friday June 29th 53 mi/11.9 avg ! We rock. When we left Mosquito Creek we had almost all downhill. We headed for Lake Louise to get a new rack for me. The bike shop is great !! Will and Rob were wonderful. Got an axiom rear rack put on and new cables . RIdes like new. Also nice to have a shop that isn't trying to soak you for prices and repairs you don't need :( We get plenty of that. We noted the bear fence that surrounds the whole town and has gates to keep out the bears. They also have Texas gates...the wide metal bars set into the road to keep cattle in/out. Very cool. We got on the Bow Parkway as it is scenic and also leads into a paved bike path into Banff. It was wonderful riding. Saw a baby bear running by the roadside. No we didn't stop . But a bunch of tourists did and were taking pictures. They then ran down the middle of the road back to their cars. How stupid...too bad the Momma bear didn't snatch a couple of them LOL. They were idiots ! We had fantastic weather and almost but not quite all downhill. We arrived in Banff. Very pretty bike path into town past a beautiful lake. Very quiet. The town is bustling with tourists as it is Canada Day on Sunday. We finally found out where the c/g is. UP the mountain. Sigh. We took the bus and I managed to mess up my front derailleur on the holder on the front of thebus. Sigh. Will see to it tomorrow. Hit the liquor store and got a large beer. We then went on to the campground on the bus and set up and had showers !! Yea...first one since Jasper :( Feels great. Road the bus back to town as my bike is messed up and talked to the bike shop they will look at in the AM ( We are there now ) . Had Aardvark pizza and a ceasar salad for 2...$29 with tip for us both. So not as bad as it could be. We then walked to the Safeway and Pete got us a 1/2 gal of vanilla icecream. We caught the bus back up..we get seniors rate for $1 a piece. We are the WHOLE thing. So good. Slept well for a while then at 4 AM the idiots aussies in the next camp site had visitors and they all whooped it up. I yelled at them and they finally stopped. They will be reprimanded by the c/g people as it is supposed to be completely quiet all night. They are very strict about that at all the c/g. Saturday June 30th ...off day ! We are at the coffee shop by the bike shop. I think the guy is trying to upsell me on stiuff....sigh. Will see what is what in a minute. Had another shower this AM ...so nice. Slept LATE !! 7:30 AM>.. We rode to the town and got a large coffee and a cranberry/lemon muffin for $5. Nice to not have all things cost so much. Free wifi too !! We are going to do laundry soon and then Pete has to have a nap he says. Karl and I will go explore so expect more pics. XXXO to all. c

Splurge Coffee - like French Roast but buy Costco Kirkland which is a good deal. Beer - DH likes small breweries beer or imported. It is one of his few expenses and he works hard so deserves it. Food - Occasionaly we will buy something special like the expensive creamy blue cheese or lobster. But only a couple of times a year. Egyptian cotton sheets/towels - After 32 years of cheap towels and sheets I finally broke down and got some nice ones. My old skin appreciates it. Kitchen Appliances - Finally remodeled our 1971 kitchen and since we DIY, we splurged on the appliances but nothing else. Hobbies - DH occasionally has to buy new tools for the remodeling projects. I buy tools and materials for my metal and glass art projects. Dog - Elvira get special diet food, she needs and deserves it. Anything she needs medically she gets and once a year teeth cleaning (so expensive!). More expensive TP - My old B*t can't take the scratchy stuff anymore. Don't Clothes - I buy a lot of them at Ross and other discount places as well the thrift store. Shoes - Buy them at Payless or Kmart. I hate shoe shopping! Purses - Buy them at the thrift store. Books & DVDs - check them out at the library. Dinners out - we only go out on special occasions. DH says I cook better healthier meals at home. Wine - $2 Chuck is fine with us. Latest electronics - I wouldn't have any of it if we didn't need to but DH does need a cell phone for work, got the cheapest prepaid we could fine. Basic Satellite - We are in a rural area in the mountains so we get nothing without it and keeps DS happy, but again got the basic package. Manicures & Pedicures - I finally got a manicure at 56 YO and wasn't impressed so never again. Haircuts - Go to the cheap chain places. I had my haircut by a stylist 28 years ago and I am still in sticker shock. Hair color - out of a box when on sale. Furniture - All bought used or unfinished (32 years ago) and refinished. Vacations - Haven't had one in over 8 years. DH uses the time off to work on the place and do remodeling projects. (Should remodeling go under the Splurge category?) Cars - We buy the less expensive ones that have been returned to the dealer after a short period. You save a bundle that way. And keep them 11 to 13 years. House - Bought a small place on 2.5 acres that needed a lot of work and have been doing that for 22 years. We could have got a mega mansion and really gone into debt forever but don't need the space. Veggies & fruit - I have a big garden and fruit trees. I can, freeze and dry a lot of what I grow plus have a garden all year long with the basics like lettuce and carrots, etc. Hired Help - Never use any, do all the work ourselves. Have only hired someone when it required big or specialized equipment. We dug out our septic tank, cut down 80Ft trees, ran our own trench lines for watering. You get the picture.

swampwiz, Think of your home as a set of interconnecting elements that function in harmony (or not in some cases) to give you the environment that you desire. While there is certainly value in looking at the different elements individually, as Calbay noted in his post, and I agree, "...it is unclear how to apply it as a decision tool. There are too many unknowns." Also, I would suggest that since your premise is window performance, starting out by discussing "constant: BTU = .00024 KW-hr", "cost for power:", Coefficient Of Performance of an air source heat pump, etc. detracts from the basic idea of measuring or comparing window performance. These are variables that don't directly affect window performance, at least not as I read your intent. I am not suggesting that you don't need that additional information, but I am suggesting that you need to establish a baseline (in this case basic window performance) before you begin adding variables that are affected by, or affect that baseline. In your post you added variation, including at least one unsupported assumption, before you introduced measured or calculated window performance. In your post you suggested comparing a 10 sqft window with U-factor variations of .5, .3. and .25. The formula for calculating Btu from U value is Btu = U x # hours x ft² x Delta T (temperature difference - which I am going to assume 50° for these examples). So, if Btu = .50 x 1 hr x 10 ft² x 50° then Btu = 250 If Btu = .30 x 1 hr x 10 ft² x 50° Btu = 150 and If Btu = .25 x 1 hr x 10 ft² x 50° Btu = 125 These are really simple examples of the difference in Btu loss and window performance rating, it is possible to interpolate the value of improved performance when our only variable (so far) is the U-value (or U-factor) difference which is based on clear/clear (.050), clear/LowE (.030), clear/argon/LowE (.025). But your house isn't confined to windows. It has walls and things as well. Assuming for the sake of simple math that a house has 1000 sqft of exposed wall (125 linear feet x 8') and that 15% of the wall area is windows - we can calculate overall wall performance by changing window performance. By definition, while R-value defines thermal resistance of a material, U-value measures thermal transfer thru a material. The formula for computing U-value is: Btu / (hr x degrees F x sqft) and the formula for computing R-value is: (hr x degrees F x sqft) / Btu and the formula for computing heat transfer is: (BTU/hr) = (area / R) * ÄT With ÄT again representing the temperature difference between what is inside and what is outside the house. Using the formula U=1/R, we can convert U.50 to R2, U.30 to R3.33, and U.25 to R4. However, this time we will assume a less severe environment so that ÄT = 25° If ÄT = 25°, then (10 sqft / R 2) = 5 * 25° = 125 BTU/hr loss or gain If ÄT = 25°, then (10 sqft / R 3.33) = 3 * 25° = 75 BTU/hr If ÄT = 25°, then (10 sqft / R 4) = 2.5 * 25° = 62.5 BTU/hr Keeping in mind that the Btu losses or gains are based on one square foot for one hour and the example has 150 square feet if windows. Combined they equal: 125 Btu x 150 sqft = 18750 Btu 75 Btu x 150 sqft = 11250 Btu 62.5 Btu x 150 sqft = 9375 Btu I am also assuming a typical 2x4 wall with R-13 fiberglass insulation. The overall wall insulation value excluding windows will calculate out to a bit below R-10, but I am also assuming R-10 for simplicity (and laziness on my part). Wall = R10 or U.1 Window = U.5 Window = 15% of wall Wall area = 850 sqft and window area = 150 sqft Wall = 850 sqft x U.1 = 85 Window = 150 sqft x U.50 = 75 85 + 75 = 160/1000sqft = U.16 or overall wall R value including windows of 6.25. Wall = R10 or U.1 Window = U.3 Window = 15% of wall Wall area = 850 sqft and window area = 150 sqft Wall = 850 sqft x U.1 = 85 Window = 150 sqft x U.30 = 50 85 + 50 = 135/1000sqft = U.135 or overall wall R value including windows of 7.41. Wall = R10 or U.1 Window = U.25 Window = 15% of wall Wall area = 850 sqft and window area = 150 sqft Wall = 850 sqft x U.1 = 85 Window = 150 sqft x U.25 = 37.5 85 + 37.5 = 122.5/1000sqft = U.123 or overall wall R value including windows of 8.1. And assuming that I didnt make any errors in my arithmetic, Improving window performance from U.5 to U.3 results in an overall wall performance improvement of 18.56% in this example Improving window performance from U.3 to U.25 results in an overall wall performance improvement of 9.31% in this example And improving window performance from U.5 to U.25 results in an overall wall performance improvement of 28.46% in this example And finally, in my opinion, now would be time to begin discussing "constant: BTU = .00024 KW-hr", "cost for power:", Coefficient Of Performance of an air source heat pump, and any other variables that are affected by window performance rather versus effect window performance. And as a final, final aside, Btu actually = .0002931 Kwh, and there are large portions of the country, primarily California and New York and parts of New England, that have already exceeded the $.12 Kwh.