I don't know the AMD 4200, I thought the dual-core processors were all 64-something, i.e., 64 bit processor. In any case it sound like a lot of machine, hot! No monitor I assume.

I consider XP better than Vista, but think the machine you describe can run Vista if you want to upgrade sometime in the future, when MS gets Vista working :::>>>>

Tiger Direct has this machine for $749.97 with keyboard, mouse, speakers and a remote control. Seems all that is missing is the monitor. I posted just so you can read all the specs so you can ask the local store if he is providing these things. This has XP Media Centre.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tiger Direct specs on this computer

I've read mixed reviews about Tiger Direct. I'm leary of 'too good to be true' There's alot of stuff there...but I dunno. My guess is that won't last five years, I could be wrong.

At ABS, there entry level with pretty much the same specs, with Vista and less stuff was twice as much. Its just better stuff.

ABS Nighthawk Silver/Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (Item#ABS11215005) 1 Standard
Intel 100% Cotton Black T-Shirt (Item#ABS00995001) 1 Standard
ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard (Item#ABS13131022) 1 $0
VGA EVGA 7900GS KO 256-P2-N624-AR R (Item#ABS14130056) 1 $16
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W Power Supply (Item#ABS17103937) 1 Standard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Windsor 2.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 (Item#ABS19103742) 1 $40
2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) (Item#ABS20145034) 1 $157
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit (Item#ABS32116354) 1 Standard
ASUS X-Mars CPU Light Cooler for AMD Socket 754/939/940 Processors (Item#ABS35193002) 1 Standard
Western Digital Caviar 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (Item#ABS22144701) 1 $10
Microsoft Curve 2000 B2L-00002 Black USB Wired Ergonomics Keyboard (Item#ABS23109149) 1 $14.99
Aopen Internal 56K V.92 Voice/Data/Fax PCI Modem (Item#ABS25131005) 1 $35
Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000 (Item#ABS26105183) 1 $31.99
DVD_BURN SAMSUNG:SH-S183L LS SATA % (Item#ABS27151141) 1 Standard
ABS T-Shirt with "ABS" logo on front and back with "AMD 64" logo on sleeve Size: L (Item#ABS00999273) 1 Standard
ABS 8" x 9" Mouse Pad (Item#ABS17114110) 1 $0
Microsoft Works Suite 2006 Bundle (Item#ABS37110032) 1 $39.99
ABS Computer System Binder for Organizing Drivers and Manuals (Item#ABS57101101) 1 Standard
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas PC Game UBISOFT (Item#ABS32138024) 1 $0
FarCry DVD Edition PC Game UBISOFT (Item#ABS37109002) 1 $0
Age of Empires III BUNDLE PC Game Microsoft (Item#ABS37110031) 1 $0

Price with Option(s): $1443.97 (and I know you do not want to spend that much). Everything in this is much better though, even the RAM. Lets not forget that free TShirt! (lol)


The graphics card on the Tiger Gateway is integrated and 128MB which is going to cripple you severely and may cause some problems with certain monitors, not too mention Vista.
HP told my aunt that you couldn't support 19 inch Widescreen Monitors and Vista with a low end 128 MB integrated graphics card. If there is a slot for a graphics card addition, why pay for the integrated one at all?

The power at 300W might be a big concern too. It might be OK for a while, finding something a little more solid will get you through what's coming up. Your paying for what you are getting.

300.00 more for the next Gateway model up a notch might be worth taking a look at on the Gateway site. I can't warn enough about what's coming.

Polywell is another company that comes to mind.

marf

I don't get the "tiger direct" connection, must be me.
Still, a Gateway, while not the market leader, is a good machine, in fact I'm sending this from a Gateway Notebook, which was a lot for the money. Another brand that'll give you more is Acer.

As for small computer shops, they usually try to have good customer relations, they can't afford to turn-off the locals, which are most or all of their business. If the shop supports the machine and it has the normal Gateway guarantee you should be alright. Again, if the package doesn't include a 17" LCD monitor or similar, the price isn't all that low. I just purchased a Dell C521 with 1 GByte RAM and a 17" LCD monitor for about the price you have been quoted.

Thanks to all who replied.Processor is Athlon 64 X2.Monitor is not included but does have keyboard, mouse and XP Media Center. I am not trying to open can of worms but I am confused. Should I get what seems to be an outdated computer with XP Media Centre because it would be better to avoid Vista or should I spend more money to get a Vista ready and installed computer? Vista capable computers seem much more expensive. Could stretch budget to $1500 if I had to ( no nail salon vists for a long time...) but would that be enough? Cherie

Tiger, people have had trouble returning damaged merchandise...that was about a year ago. There were a few that were getting to be notorius for sending damaged goods, I'm going to get the names wrong, I don't want to pan an oraganization that doesn't have a bad rep. As I said, I"m not sure about now, so I probably shouldn't have made the remark about Tiger. (Comp USA was another).

marf

I've always built my own until a little over a year ago I found I could buy a dell with what I wanted cheaper than I could build it. I bought two dimension 8400's and we have been very happy with them. My daughter recently asked my advice about buying a new computer. I recommended the dell xps 410 which you can see here: dell xps series. This model includes shipping and handling and a 19" lcd monitor for $999. She wanted to buy one of the lower priced dells but I pointed out she would have to pay shipping and handling and they had the 15' monitor, integrated graphics (which before vista anyway) are fine for some people and only 512 MB of ram. She got the xps and has been very happy with it. One drawback (for me) is that you can't buy a new dell with windows xp.

This makes more sense to me. XPS series is solid.

While I'm not recommending for anyone to run out and buy Vista, I personally cannot see investing in XP if you are getting a new computer. The XP game is over. We just don't know it yet.

You just don't dare buy Vista without 2GB of RAM...don't do it. I imagine this is dual channel RAM, to upgrade your RAM ...you have to have matching sides/sticks/channels. I don't know how many memory slots this has, you don't want to buy RAM that you are going to have to throw away to upgrade. Make sure you are going to have what you are going to need at the checkout. This is common sense.

This is the PC World review of the Dell in question, it is a 2,000.00 + model, I imagine there's a lot that they probably included that you could go with out or buy later. I imagine with the (at least) 2GB of RAM your take home price will be about 1,200.00 to 1,400.00 ...sort of around the ABS price.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,126554-page,1-c,desktoppcs/article.html

I know you want to go cheaper ... but don't. I certainly don't expect you to spend 2000.00. A good quality computer, delivered ready to go in the 1200.00 to 1,500.00 range (with a monitor) is a find.

At this point you are trading in quality for a bargain.

This includes a monitor. While it isn't as good as the ABS choices for 1,300.00 and 1,400.00 that I looked at, it is solid. There are some issues about expansion, but since you won't be the Kennedy Space Center's backup in case of an emergency, you won't need a lot of expansion in the next five years. The cooling issue is where they all pale in comparison to ABS in my book, and again the ABS is "better", but this model starts in to close that gap...considerably.

This is one to look at. This is a very good price for a better quality computer...and that is what should be looking for.

Finding the cheapest computer is often finding junk. There have been some high priced lemons...don't get me wrong. Sony made a few back about 5-7 years or so.

Common sense.

The Gateway had a 300W power capability? I know reading lightbulbs that use that much. Ohhhh, it looks so good though, and my sister's boyfriend's cousin (twice removed) had a Gateway and thought it was great! (that's supposed to be a joke)

Common sense.

I know a few people with eMachines, and though a lot of the critics like them, the owners that I know of ...don't.

Here's a recent review from an owner (from PC World):

"Reviewed by: tstinson
01-25-07Duration of ownership: 1 Months
Strengths: Great sales support. Sales associate was knowlegeable, patient, and informative. She even gave me her personal extension so that I could call her back. I also appreciated the no-haggle approach. -Internal components are easily accessable. -Delivered quickly! -Options for building my own machine were adequate and well explained
Weaknesses: -Needless or undesired software preinstalled! -Why are we still selling keyboard/mouse combos with wires in 2006-2007? -The Silver/Black/White color of the tower does not work.

Overall Evaluation: I purchased a Dell XPS 410 with: Intel Duo Core Processor E6600 2 Gig Memory 250 Gig Hard Drive Windows Media Center 2005 w/ free Vista Upgrade 256MB GeForce 7900 GS nVidia Graphics Card No Monitor For under $1,500. With the overall performance of the machine for the exceptional price, it is a STEAL! I can raise all graphic settings and never notice a stutter. Even while running high demanding games such as Doom III and Company of Heros. I am not disappointed in the performance at all."

Get it.

My2

marf

I should have written:
At this point you AREN'T trading quality for a bargain.

I should have don a lot of things with my life.

marf

Cherie,
The Gateway you are considering is Vista "ready", I still would not put Vista on it, especially if you have to pay extra: living by what I say, the Dell PC I purchased in December came with a free upgrade to Vista, I'm not using it, I'm sticking with the XP Media that came on the machine, it will run a LOT BETTER with XP, and Microsoft will support XP for at least the next 5 years, is my guess. More on doing what I say, I purchased in late February an Acer Aspire Notebook with the AMD 64 and Vista. The machine had a problem with its dial-up modem, so I had lots of chances to figure out how to use and trouble shoot with Vista. I finally took the computer back for a refund when Acer Technical Support was not responsive. I also concluded that Vista ran far too slowly considering the power the Acer came with. I then went looking the same day as the return, and found a shelf stock (display unit) Gateway notebook with XP, I purchased it and it works great, no plan to put Vista on it ever, but things could change in a year or two.

All the information has been really helpful. I feel like I can make a more educated decision on my computer purchase.My purse is feeling lighter already.Current Dell computer cost $3000 in 1998 so that Gateway at $650 was true temptation but I was suspicious that it really wasn't the best way for me to go.Thanks for the other recomendations. I am seriously looking at the Dell and the ABS.I thank all of you for replying. Marf thanks for taking the time to give me your recomendations and giving the reasons for your recomendations.Take care everyone and thanks. Cherie

Jerry, I just wanted to share something regarding updating to Vista with your Dell. Two friends of mine wound up with Vista on their machines. One bought just before the switch and had the free upgrade, and the other got a new machine with it installed. Both had initial problems with software glitches and some real problems. Dell has been incredible with their support to get everything working smoothly, they have even called these people back numerous times to make sure all working well.

Since neither of these people are computer savvy, I even started thinking it was odd regarding the amount of time the Dell support people were spending getting these computers running well. I was afraid these people would get billed for the time.

It appears to me that Dell is investing in support to get these Vista machines operating smoothly. I would suggest if you plan to eventually upgrade, you do it within the next year while Dell is spending so much time trying to make their customers happy.

Something funny, the Dell person actually contacted someone at Microsoft and they did a remote on her computer.

Now both machines seem to be working smoothly. I have no idea what was done, but they seem happy.

Jane

Jane, thanks...I may have passed the point for a "Free Upgrade", I can look back and see what the cut-off date is, some time this month.

As noted in this thread, I used Vista on an new Notebook that had other problems, but I didn't care much for Vista, especially when I needed to get down to the device/driver level.

As it turns out, PC Magazine tested Vista on a few machines that were rated "Vista Capable", one was the C521 we have, PC Mag said it ran slower with Vista..compared to XP. I believe XP will be fully supported for a number of years and I'm happy to keep using, the machine replaced by the Dell runs the unsupported W98SE, also have a still running W98.

Good for Dell on the support, and I hope it was easy to establish the first contact with technical support, and support in the US, or at least in a language that sounds like it is in the US.

I don't get the "tiger direct" connection, must be me.

Jerry, the same computer is at the link at Tiger.

Looking at the Tiger specs, it's a socket 939, which AMD has stopped production on. I just built something similar for a friend, the processor cost me a little over $100 after rebates.

The newest AMD socket is AM2, and according to what I've been reading, everyone is favoring Intels Core 2 Duo.

For the money of this Gateway, I'd consider looking at Cyber Power or I Buy Power. You could get newer hardware for the same price last I looked.

About Vista, Microsoft is in business. They are only going to stay in business (the way they have been) by force feeding Vista. They are going to do it and quite soon. I wouldn't mind keeping XP forever. It is finally getting to be where it originally should have been. But Microsoft won't make the money they are out of by Vista's delay if they continue to allow the choice between Vista and XP. Sooner than later XP wil be be discontinued for support just as 95' and 98' etc. were. We won't have "years" left with XP.

marf

Not to argue over the unknown, but I can say from memory support for W98SE was dropped last year, six+ years after W-Whatever, forget its name, and six years after w2K. I don't expect them to drop XP any time soon.

I just looked up information on the Dell C521 we purchased in December of 2006, it was under $600 before tax, so less than the subject Gateway of this thread. This Dell had the AMD 64 and 1 GByte of memory, but a much smaller HDD than the subject Gateway. It also has the 5 slot memory card input and a 17" LCD, so that says to me the Gateway price isn't particularly low.

And speaking of our Dell and Vista, the Dell came with a "free" upgrade to Vista that had to be exercised by March 31. So, to be safe, and to pay only $10 S&H, I ordered our free upgrade to Vista Premium. I will not be in any hurry to implement it, and will have to see if it comes with a activation time requirement. The only statement this makes to me about upcoming Microsoft policy for XP is they want to get people on Vista so that it will be easier to provide support and to drop XP. Given what I paid for the Dell I can safely assume Dell paid the OEM for Vista and MS give them the XP Media to use until Vista (late as usual for MS) was available.

Speaking of MS making money, a neighbor told me today (I have no proof, other than it sounds like the action of those who are paid way TOO much), the number 2 an MS, I forget his name, just had the largest private yacht in the world built for him, $400 million, don't remember the length but think it is several hundred feet, a crew of 65 (suppose some of them are off while others are on duty, not all on the ship at the same time), and an operating cost of 20 Million. So, MS clearly has to worry about making money off the Vista right away otherwise the top officers will not be able to buy a fleet of yachts next year.

Yep, unfortunately the Microsoft "owners" have found the pathway to wretched excess and they are going to stay on it.

marf

I read somewhere (don't remember exactly) that MS had planned to drop support for XP in 2009, but that this has been extended, at least as far as security updates, to 2015.

Actually, I believe XP was sheduled to end in 2006???? I really wouldn't plan on support through 2015. OS software is Microsoft's bread and butter. They have to sell.

That is normal to expect. That is the way of American businesss, planned obselescense. They can't keep selling XP to people who already have it and stay in business as well as buy yachts.

marf

Here is a link that might be useful: Microsoft and XP Home, original discontinue date

Martha, the link you posted is no more than someone's opinion in a blog. What I read was from a reliable source, probably on CNet or the like. Not wanting to start an argument, but the source of information is important. It's easy to speculate.

Security updates is all I'm concerned about, and as Vista (and I hope Apple and Linus) expand to be the predominate OS(s), the malware will migrate to those systems and XP will be of little interest. That's what happened for W(9x/20). I also think MS has to watch its step, they escaped, again, the weak efforts of the Justice Department, but if there are a few million outcries about mistreatment my MS, it could again bring on the Justice Department, something that MS doesn't want.

No it clearly states that was the original cut off date, obviously they have extended it.

Its not someones opinion, that was announced way back when.

They are not going to let XP run too much longer...they can't. They have got to sell or they will go bankrupt.

The only opinions stated are how much longer Microsoft is going to support XP. No one knows for sure. Microsoft can announce cancellations or extensions at their whim.

The only reason XP is still going is because they can't get Vista working like they expected to.

At present, Vista is a gaming OS that won't play any games.
The XP compatibility mode doesn't work on earlier XP games at all and only poorly with recent games.

I imagine as soon as a compatable catalog of software is available the cut off will be announced.

They have to sell. Vista is so delayed and Microsoft is so behind in their projected revenue, they will cut off XP, and especially XP home as soon as feasibly possible.

my 2

This Gateway thread has been hijacked by MS Vista, and I'm part of it. I suppose this information would reach more people with knowledge and interest if it came under it own subject: something like: When will MS Drop Support of XP.

I find the blog interesting in it states MS will support XP Pro and even W2000 Pro much longer than XP Home. I don't have the numbers but assume the number of XP Home licenses greatly outnumber the the Pro licenses, but I doubt that there is any core fix for Pro that wouldn't also be effective on Home...the only cost to MS would be the extra cycle time on their support network...and the loss of upgrade sales. My past experience with corporate IT decision making is that industry will not go to Vista any time soon, but most them have the Pro versions anyway.

If they drop XP Home this year (clearly the 2006 forecast is wrong) it will be further encouragement for me to go to Linus...I keep playing but have been too lazy to go beyond playing with Unix on a "test bed" machine. Besides, XP came on all the machines I purchased, the "text bed" machine is home made and didn't come with an OS.