Common sense isn't telling people to an anything what want to. Its easy to know if something is acidic, maybe not without a pH meter, but taste can also tell you if its sour or highly acidic. Many people follow recipes recipes to the exact letter and 'assume' its safe or will have a good flavor and texture. They quickly realize that recipes are not exact science when it comes to the ingredients used. Preaching about home canning safety and using 'scare tactics' only make many people afraid to can anything even though there are many recipes out there that are safe and can even accept suntitutes for some of the ingredients. Maybe not everyone who does come canning for years knows that eggs, dairy, pasta, and oils are all considered unsafe, but for a recipe that is based on acidic based fruit like apples, its sure to be safe enough if the low acid components are added in dehyradted state, and soal up acid and all te rest of the liqids. Making a salsa with apples, apple cider vinegar, a few onions, and a few hot peppers will most definatly be something that can be made safe enough to home can. I'm not taking about a half cup of apples, and 6 cups of hot peppers and onions. Obviosuly thats way too much low acid. Adding cider vinegar like a cup to two cups, with 2-3 cups of apples, and a half cup of onions, an a quarter cup of hot peppers will suffice as bsic recipe. Were not making a hot pepper and onion salsa here, but an apple based one. The main reason most all my home canning has been safe for many years is not because I follow recipes, but know, by their nature what things can be added to increase acidity, and go structly by taste BEFORE its canned. Common sense tells us that we know there are toxins out there that need to be avoided, and improper home canning can encourage some safety issues. A good example of following a pickle recipe that calls for vinegar, salt and water and spices. I do NOT add water, so anything I pickle will be much safer when it comes to an actaul acid level, as far as I am concerned. Adding water to dilute things only adds more unsafe factors to an otherwise safe recipe or a procedure. Tinkering with other ingredients amounts also factors in, but for a salsa, I wouldn't even think of using a lot of hot peppers, as it can spoil many recipes if you can't eat a lot of hot stuff. I made a large batch of sugar free orange sauce, not for canning, added just a tablespoon of jarred garlic and chili paste and it was way too hot for me. I had to dilute the sauce with more orange and its grated peel to dilute the heat. I bet if I wanted to safely can it, I could. It was cooked, and the thickener used was Clear Jel. Because it was sugaress and used Splenda, I also added citric acid to increase the acidity. If I were to test its pH it would probably be down below 4. Obviously, home canning that would require more than 'common sense', and would require me to do a bit more research about what can go into it, to keep it safe. I don't tell people to can everything, and don't intend to hold hands to guide them through every facet and detail. If that were the case, I would tell them to forget about attempting to home can anyuthing as they simply lack common sense. ANY recipe, no matter how safe, can still be dangerous if the ingredients were incorrectly added in amounts that can change the overall results. You said that what we do in our kitchens is our own business, and you can rest assured that I don't have things like pickled eggs. I do make pickled pepperoncini peppers without any added heat only because I use full strength vinegar and a process that will force the all vinegar brine into each pepper's insides, by means of a strong vacuum. Common sense tells me the process I use is quite safe, and is the exact same way they are pickled commercially, but there, they use 20% vinegar and water it down to the 5%. No heat used in commercial pickled peppers either.

Hi! I am fairly new to this forum, but have been reading and learning a lot from it. There is such a wealth of knowledge and great recipes too. I was also looking for a recipe for peach salsa that included tomatoes and not being as confident about switching out ingredients I found this recipe on Recipezaar (www.recipezaar.com) I haven't tried it yet, but there were several good reviews. Peach Salsa Recipe #30555 10 ratings An excellent salsa that goes well with fish dishes, or just as a snack with crackers. by William (Uncle Bill) Anatooskin 8 1/2 pints time to make 45 min 30 min prep 6 cups chopped peaches (about 3 pounds) 3 large fresh tomatoes 1 1/2 cups chopped red onions 4 medium jalapeno peppers, seeded and finely chopped 1 large sweet red pepper, seeded and finely chopped 1/2 cup finely chopped cilantro 1/2 cup white vinegar 2 tablespoons liquid honey 3 cloves garlic, finely chopped 1 1/2 teaspoons ground cumin 1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper Sterilize 8, 1/2 pint jars, then place upside down in a 325 F oven for about 15 minutes. Blanch peaches, cool in cold water, peel, pit and chop to measure 6 cups. Blanch tomatoes and cool with cold water, peel, remove seeds and cut into chunks. In a large stainless or enamel cooking pot, combine peaches, tomatoes, onion, Jalapeno peppers, sweet red pepper, cilantro, vinegar, honey, garlic, cumin and cayenne pepper. Bring to a boil, and cook for about 5 minutes, stirring frequently. Adjust seasonings to taste. Add more cayenne pepper if you desire a spicier taste. Ladle salsa into hot jars to within 1/4 inch of top for headspace. Remove air bubbles by sliding a rubber spatula between the glass and salsa. Re-adjust the headspace to 1/4 inch. Wipe jar rim to remove any stickiness. Center lid on top of jar; apply screw band just until finger tight. Place jars in a hot bath in a canner and process for 10 minutes. Remove jars and place on a towel, then cover with another towel to cool slowly. Jars are sealed when the lids pop and are curved down, (concave). Label jars and store in a cool, dark place. NOTE: You can substitute and use 6 cups of fresh, chopped pineapple for a different flavor.

Dave, I do think it sounds safe, for all the reasons you say. But consider it this way...it is a bit less acidic than the NCHFP recipe for hot sauce with tomatoes, and it is thicker than pickled peppers (in terms of convection in the liquid), so either way the tested recipe (hot sauce or pickled peppers) is getting a less-safe change (rather than an equal change such as peppers for onions, or a more-safe change such as extra vinegar for water). I do think subbing all peppers for the tomatoes is probably fine, and I would eat sauce made that way. I was just wondering, because sometimes when people post discussions on tested recipes with multiple substitutions, you feel it's too different from the tested recipe. Nothing wrong with that opinion, of course, and it surely matches the official food safety opinion from the USDA. I just like to think scientifically about whether the changes really affect safety - whether each substitution affects acidity, oil content, heat transfer within the product, etc. I usually have no problem with combining 4 or 5 substitutions that are individually approved, but I did, for example, think it was questionable to sub a lot of garlic for onions in the roasted tomato salsa thread. One thing I really like about this forum is the way we conduct reasoned and thoughtful discussions on the issues, so it's nice to have different opinions around, and to be able to talk respectfully. I wasn't questioning the pepper substitution, Dave, just wondering how it fit into your food safety views. Hearing it from an extension class seems like a pretty good approval to me. Melissa

Image by: Barnmom 8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained 2-1/2 cups onion, chopped 1-1/2 cups green pepper, chopped 3 - 5 jalapenos, chopped 6 cloves garlic 2 teaspoons cumin 2 teaspoons ground black pepper 1/8 cup canning salt 1/4 cup fresh cilantro, chopped 1/3 cup sugar 1 cup 5% apple cider vinegar 2 cups (16 oz.) tomato sauce 2 cups (16 oz.) tomato paste Mix all ingredients, bring to a boil and boil for 10 minutes. Pour into hot pint jars leaving 1/2" headspace, seal and process in a boiling water canning bath for 15 minutes. Adjust for your altitude (see below). Makes about 6-7 pints. Additional Notes for Ingredients and Processing 8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained Any type or color of tomato may be used (paste, canning, beefsteak, a combination of different types, etc.) The paste types will be meatier, the canners such as Rutgers are somewhat juicier than paste types and the beefsteaks the juiciest of all. Some prefer, as Annie does, to remove the tomato seeds and gel sacks. Some don't remove the seeds - this is personal preference. Measure after peeling, chopping and draining. 2-1/2 cups onion, chopped Roughly a 1/4" chopped size (this is the size used in the NCHFP testing - a little larger won't matter, but try not to have the pieces larger than 1/2" maximum). 1-1/2 cups green pepper, chopped Roughly a 1/4" chopped size. 3 - 5 jalapenos, chopped Any combination of green, red, whatever color peppers is fine. 3-5 jalapenos equates to roughly 1/4 cup, so total peppers cannot exceed 1-3/4 cups. For a spicier salsa, you can decrease the sweet peppers and increase the hot peppers by the same amount. Or, you can use hotter peppers (such as habaneros or serranos) but the TOTAL amount of peppers cannot exceed 1-3/4 cups. 6 cloves garlic, minced or finely diced Do not increase. Small differences in size of cloves should not matter. 2 teaspoons cumin For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely. 2 teaspoons ground black pepper For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely. Any dried ground pepper such as cayenne may be substituted for a portion of or all of the black pepper. 2 tablespoons (same measurement as 1/8 cup) canning salt For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely. 1/4 cup fresh cilantro, chopped Can be reduced or left out entirely. Do not increase. Dried cilantro or other dried herbs may be added, but not more fresh herbs (fresh herbs change the pH - dried herbs do not). Add additional fresh herbs only after you open the jar. 1/3 cup sugar For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely. 1 cup 5% apple cider vinegar Can use any flavor vinegar (white, cider, etc.) as long as acidity is at least 5%. However, you can substitute bottled lemon or lime juice in any proportions according to taste (for example, 1/3 cup vinegar, 1/3 cup lemon juice, 1/3 cup lime juice) as long as the total equals one cup. 2 cups (16 oz.) tomato sauce Can be reduced slightly. See "Canning & Processing" notes below. 2 cups (16 oz.) tomato paste For texture only. Can be reduced or left out entirely. JAR SIZES You may: Process in pint jars (either regular or wide mouth) or smaller (12 oz., 8 oz. half pints, or 4 oz. quarter pints). Process all smaller sizes at the same processing time for pints. You may NOT: Process in larger jars (24 oz., 32 oz. quarts or 1/2 gallon jars). Testing was done only in pint jars. CANNING & PROCESSING The recipe for pressure canning originally specified 1/3 cup vinegar and copies of that recipe are still available on the Internet. Pressure canning salsa has not been tested, therefore it is not officially recommended. If you wish to pressure can the salsa, you must include a full 1 cup of vinegar. Processing time that is currently used by some is 10 lbs. pressure for 30 minutes. Adjust for your altitude (see below). Because salsa is eaten out of the jar without heating and includes low acid vegetables such as garlic, onions and peppers, it is one of the riskier products to can at home due to two factors: the pH or acidity level (the normal cutoff point for boiling water bath vs. pressure canning is a pH of 4.6 and salsa can edge very close to that) and the density of the product. The salsa should be thin enough for the liquid portion to thoroughly suspend the chopped vegetables so the very center of the jar heats up to the same temperature as the outer portion next to the glass during processing. If you want it thicker, puree it AFTER you open the jar. DO NOT puree before processing - this would affect the density. Or, add a thickener such as Clear Jel or cornstarch AFTER you open the jar. DO NOT add other low acid vegetables before processing, such as corn or black beans. Only add them after you open the jar. ADJUSTMENTS If you live above 1000' in elevation, you need to calculate your altitude adjustments for both boiling water bath (BWB) and pressure canning (PC). As your altitude goes above 1000 feet the atmospheric pressure is reduced. This causes water to boil at temperatures lower than 212 degrees Fahrenheit. For safety in water bath canning, you must bring the contents of your jar to at least 212 degrees Fahrenheit. To compensate for the lower boiling temperature at altitude, you must increase processing time. For this salsa recipe, BWB times at altitudes of (per the Ball Blue Book): Up to 1000 ft. Processing time is 15 minutes. 1001 - 3000 ft. Increase processing time an extra 5 minutes to 20 minutes total. 3001 - 6000 ft. Increase processing time an extra 10 minutes to 25 minutes total. 6001 - 8000 ft. Increase processing time an extra 15 minutes to 30 minutes total. 8001 - 10,000 ft. Increase processing time an extra 20 minutes to 35 minutes total. Adjustments for pressure canning can be found in the Ball Blue Book or on their website. Do make sure you know the altitude where you do your canning. People that live in Denver know they are in the Mile High City and have to make adjustments, but portions of cities like Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Oklahoma City are all above 1000' and it may be something you're not aware of and need to be compensating for. DO I HAVE TO USE BOTTLED LEMON JUICE? The pH scale runs from 0 (very acidic) to 14 (very alkaline). Each increment from 0 to 14 is 10 times more acidic/alkaline (remember the "magic" number of pH 4.6 for BWB vs. pressure canning). pH testing on fresh lemons ranged from 2.20 to 3.20, so one variety of lemon or even an individual lemon grown in a different orchard might be 10 times LESS acidic than another. Bottled lemon juice, which is processed to a standard acidity, is used for testing in recipes and is also pasteurized, therefore it also will not create any further enzyme reactions in your canned goods (per the folks at ReaLemon a couple of years ago). Note: Bottled lemon or lime juices are only called for when canning borderline pH foods (tomatoes and salsa usually). If you are making jams and jellies with high acid fruits (any fruit excluding Asian pears, bananas, mangoes, figs and melons), feel free to use fresh lemon or lime juice. Do I personally like using bottled lemon juice? Not particularly, but when a canning procedure SPECIFICALLY CALLS FOR IT, I use it without questioning it. A very good explanation is in this publication from North Dakota State University - "Why add lemon juice to tomatoes and salsa before canning?" Especially note the different pH values of individual varieties of tomatoes (and there are thousands more varieties). For the more science oriented, this 2004 paper from the NCHFP: On safe acidification of salsa for home boiling water canning