Homemade vinegar is still hard cider

14 years ago

I tried to make my own homemade vinegar last year. I have about 20 gallon jugs. Half of it is apple, the other half are pear.

Anyway, now 9 to 10 months after making it, it's not vinegar yet, just very hard and very alcoholic cider. While some people might enjoy that, I don't drink at all, and I really was looking forward to vinegar. I had fantasies of using my homemade vinegar this year to make pickles (with the acid level augmented, of course, to be safe).

I used recycled, cleaned out vinegar jugs and gallon containers from distilled water. Those with the tighter-fitting lids actually have a fairly substantial amount of CO2 building, so some of it is highly carbonated, sparkling hard cider.

There is a pretty heavy sludge layer on the bottom, but it will go back into suspension temporarily if I shake it up.

So, what am I missing here? I think the answer is oxygenation - do I need to open the lids, or even pour it out into something like a crock and then loosely cover it so that it gets more oxygen? Would that make it transition to vinegar?

Or, do I just need to leave it in the basement and wait for it, even if it takes 5 years? Sooner or later, doesn't pretty much all wine and hard cider turn to vinegar?

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

wiringman
14 years ago
this is what i found on Answers.com

"as apple cider ages it turns to alcoholic apple cider then to apple cider vinegar.

So take apple cider leave it out preferable in a cool dark place and wait after a certain amount of weeks you will have apple cider vinegar. "

i hope this helps.

WM
myk1
14 years ago
Since it's you I'll answer in this forum because I know you want experience and not just "approved" answers.
Are you the one that insisted on fermenting the apples with natural yeasts?
If so, you're "lucky", you only have the stuff that makes alcohol in your cider. If I was assured of only the natural yeasts and not the bacteria I'd use the natural yeasts too.

If you pasteurized or used camden tablets and threw bought yeast that is why you were lucky, you killed the bacteria.
You now need to throw the bacteria that turns the alcohol into vinegar. You should be able to find it by searching homebrew stores for "mother of vinegar".
Alternately you can throw some unfiltered unpasteurized natural vinegar from a healthfood store and grow your own culture to inoculate all your bottles with.

If you are the one that tempted fate and used the natural yeasts you probably want to tempt it again and use the natural bacteria. In that case expose them to air and hope for the best, but it didn't work the first time so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Know you would be taking a crap shoot with the correct bacteria entering and being the one to grow the fastest (a dog in the yard and feeding ecoli to little kids is why I pasteurize my cider).

By expose it to air I mean really expose it to the air, put it back in the vat you pressed into and whisk it. This will drive off the CO2 and since you said it was carbonated it may be helpful no matter what method you use, if I'm remembering right the carbonation serves a purpose other than tickling the nose.
If I didn't want to expose it to random acts of bacteria I'd siphon it from bottle to bottle letting it slosh before throwing the mother of vinegar.

You can test and adjust your own acidity pretty cheaply (again from the homebrew stores). If they don't go by the simple "acid test kit" it would be a "titration kit".

You're really lucky you didn't have blow ups if you had those sealed the whole time. The amount of potential alcohol it takes to blow a beer or wine bottle designed to take pressure is not that much and if you plugged fresh cider bottles that tends to finish around 5%, that's a lot of gas.
The bubbler tops are not that expensive, you can even use balloons and burp them (and if you want to know some other ways just ask me in the other forum where I'm sure to see it). I wouldn't doubt if now that you've taken the pressure off some of them start fermenting again.

BTW, my apple wine came out pretty good. I don't normally drink either but 1 gallon is not going to be anywhere near enough. It has to be 12%-15% and I can't taste the alcohol (I can normally taste any alcohol). For the cheap yeast I used the yeast flavor isn't so bad either.
I'm hardening at least 5 gallons this year, probably 10 gallons if I get enough apples.
Related Discussions
Have I just made vinegar instead of cider?
Q
Comments (30)
Since you are aiming for a sparkling cider, and you still have Live yeast and sugar left in the cider -- it will keep fermenting.... and it will keep generating PRESSURE! DO NOT BOTTLE INTO ANY JARS THAT AREN'T MADE TO HOLD PRESSURE! THEY WILL EXPLODE! This is especially true if you try to pasteurize it.... Mason Jars are a No-No.. Wine bottles are a No-No... Miscellaneous glass bottles are a No-No... None of these are made to hold the sort of pressure the yeast will generate and they will explode... and they will shower you with sharp glass! You need to use either Beer bottles or Champagne bottles if you want to bottle a "Sparkling" beverage for long term storage.... Plastic soda bottles work quite well for short term storage. On the alcohol question - you got alcohol the 1st time it fermented.... Most fruit stand cider will ferment out to about 6% alcohol without any help from you... If it goes right, it won't have a sharp alcohol flavor.... but it's in there... Unfortunately, as you get closer and closer to the alcohol tolerance of your yeast by adding more and more sugar - it will start to generate weird, off flavors that taste like paint thinner, nail polish remover, and rocket fuel.... These are called "Fusel alcohols" because they generally taste "Hot".... Once you start generating this stuff -- there is nothing you can do but to let it age for a long time to mellow out. My advice - stop while you are ahead. Don't add any more sugar. If you want it a bit sweet - put it in the fridge to slow down fermentation and then siphon off the clear liquid off the muck in the bottom. Then, put it back in the fridge till you drink it. Don't be greedy here... Yeast doesn't taste particularly good.... Most sweet ciders and especially those fermented on their wild yeasts are best when they are young... Drink and enjoy. Thanks
...See More
Homemade vinegar from grape skins
Q
Comments (9)
The Herb Guild I am a part of makes herb and fruit vinegars to sell at the Botanic Gardens here. For fruit vinegars, we simply wash and dry well (my understanding is that any extra water will dilute the vinegar and lower the acidity that keeps bacteria from forming). We then place in a gallon jar with whatever herbs we like and cover with vinegar (white wine in our case, but cider should pair well for this application). In my experience, I see no reason why the pulp/skins wouldn't work, though you may end up with more of a tannin flavor from the grape skins, rather than the sweetness, since you've already pulled a lot of the sugars out with your juice. Personally, I would do the smaller batches, so that if one doesn't work, you can just dump it without losing all of it, and fill the jars about 1/3 full of pulp to start, or try a few different amounts. Also, it would be a shame to waste the vinegar if you find you don't use the end product. If you like it, expand production next year? I don't know for sure, but I would be concerned with the vinegar eating the seals on the spigot on your larger dispenser jar. I would taste your vinegar every few days to decide when it gets to the point you want it. I've had herb vinegars get bitter steeping in two weeks, while others steep longer with no problem. You could also consider some spices such as some anise stars or cinnamon sticks. Fennel seed may pair very well too. Ground spices generally tend to cloud vinegars and don't work that well. I would wait until you strain the pulp from the vinegar to deal with sugar, heating the vinegar to below boiling and stirring briskly to dissolve. Add just enough to sweeten to your taste and uses. Personally, I store my vins filtered, with no remaining herbs or fruit. You may have already discovered this fact sheet in googling and old searches, but it's still good info. Here is a link that might be useful: Fact sheet on making flavored Vinegars
...See More
Is my cider turning to vinegar?
Q
Comments (13)
> You've already got the water-filled airlocks - why do you need the latex things ;-) on top? Curiosity. If an airlock burps I won't really know how much gas has been produced unless capture it in a balloon. There wasn't as much info on fermenting 5 or 6 years ago and I was just experimenting & it's just my nature to question things. > But you say burping is fine? Doesn't let bad stuff in (no more than leaving it open long enough to pour a sample out does)? I think there is some contamination risk in burping, but not much if you wait until see bubbles rising through the ferment or collected on the surface. If I get a weaker 'whoosh' on day 6 compared to days 4 or 5 then I might wait several days before burping or don't do again at all. And is not long after bubbles are spotted that the pH is in the lower 4s. Not even pretending to be an expert on this. Made 'balloon wine' in my freshman dorm closet in 1961 though. (true story)
...See More
Hard Cider? Vinegar? So many apples
Q
Comments (2)
I've never made vinegar or cider but I also have a ton of apples to use up. I made NCHFP's canned apple pie filling, Apple Chutney, Cranberry Pineapple Apple "sauce", Apple Nutmeg Jam (same as Ball's Apple Preserves with 3 tsp freshly ground nutmeg instead of 2 tsp), and lots of chopped dried apples for apple cake and granola throughout the next year. Reading the recipe for making apple cider vinegar on-line does not sound too complex, except finding the right yeast for it. I don't know how others would keep the gnats from invading while it ferments though. My canning kitchen is filled with them dive-bombing the peelings. Nancy Here is a link that might be useful: Homemade Apple Cider Vinegar
...See More
ksrogers
14 years ago
A vinegar 'mother' started culture may be helful. They sell these at Beer and Wine making supply places like the following. Without it, you cna end up with a nasty tasing unknown?

Here is a link that might be useful: Mother cultures
denninmi
Original Author
14 years ago
Myk1 wrote: "Are you the one that insisted on fermenting the apples with natural yeasts?"

Sorry, nope wasn't me, must have been somebody else.

I didn't actually have a plan - just put the cider in gallon jugs and let it do its thing. I thought it pretty much all turned into vinegar eventually.

IF I were a drinker, it probably would be pretty good, actually. It smells pleasant and "winey" sort of. I do cook with wine at times, I should try some that way.

Actually, a few of them have "blown their tops" -- they are mostly in plastic vinegar jugs with a flip-up plastic top. As the pressure builds, it pops open.

Homemade vinegar is still hard cider

Comments (4)

wiringman

myk1

Related Discussions

ksrogers

denninmi
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Homemade vinegar is still hard cider

Comments (4)

wiringman

myk1

Related Discussions

ksrogers

denninmiOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

denninmi
Original Author