Wouldn't it be great to have a regional data bank with just this information?

Perhaps one could put in their personal experience data by detailed zonal information and be required to only list those plants that they had assessed for 3 years or more. Sort of like wikipedia for roses...

Really, the place is there for it.
Look up roses in HelpMeFind, and add your comments, noting your location/zone/conditions.

But you can probably take it as a given that very few roses can be objectively assessed
with less than three years observation.
And more is almost always better.

Jeri

Ingrid, I used to live in Zone 24 and even there we had the micro climates. Inland you had the ocean breeze but warmer daytime temps. A mile or 2 west you had more marine influence which affects most but the toughest roses. Rust and mildew were rampant as I don't spray. Without full day sun it's even more problematic.
Now I live in what I believe is Zone 10A (Sunset 22 or 23 depending if you are in a canyon or valley or hilltop). We have more cold, more heat and less sea breeze. The roses love it! I only get rust in the fall after a summer of no spray. I have sprinklers that water in early evening (so far, no control over that with the maintence company). Not good but it keeps me from having to water but once a week. Anyway, the best for me are the Austins, hybrid musks and floribundas. I am babying my first tea rose and hope I have the patience to see it grow into a lovely thing. Best rose overall is probably Irish Hope, a large floribunda found at Heirloom and Vintage Gardens. The shiny leaves and continuous flowering compliment everything around them.
I am always thinking of what to SP so I can plant something new; how about you?
Mary

You're quite right Jeri, I know it's too early for me to make a realistic judgment. I was hoping, though, that those of you who have grown roses for a longer time, no matter in which zone, would talk about your top performers, those roses that are absolutely your favorites. I may have mentioned one or two roses that not everyone is familiar with which already seem excellent to me at this early stage and was hoping to hear others' input on what their best roses are at this time. I enjoy that kind of assessment and thought others might too.

Ingrid

I know what you mean Mary, but I'm forcing myself to wait and give my young roses a chance to mature. As Jeri pointed out, some of them take quite a few years to get going and show you what they can do and I don't want to shortchange the roses (and myself) by not waiting long enough, tempting as it may be to try something new.

Ingrid

That was my dream, too, only in my zone close to the farm. It's not realistic, and now knowing the problems that can arise, I'm not sure one person, assuming one has the health to do it, could manage that many roses in a large area.

That's enough of my dream. I'm just doing what I can where I am for now. It sure beats being in a place where you can't grow any roses at all like an apartment, nursing home, etc.

To the OP, I think things may get better for you in time as long as your health holds and especially if you have someone who will help. I wish you the best. Everything in life is a tradeoff. Just that one rose is beautiful, makes part of it seem worthwhile to me, and I'm betting it will get better if you don't give up. I can't grow some of those gorgeous roses people post and talk about either, but I can still learn from, share, and admire theirs.

I was thinking the same thing about my 4yr old rose garden.
My clear winners are...

Mons Tillier -Tea - As large as my Santa Rosa Plum tree, constant bloom, lovely!

Dublin Bay - HT Climber - Always in bloom and a perfect pillar rose - true red

Hot Cocoa - Floribunda - The best color and constant bloom machine - right not the color is coral

Perfect Moment - HT - Best cut flower- Love the two toned color!

This is my Superstar list!

I have 2 that have been in the ground for 6 years now.

Prairie Princess is I think as hardy as they get. For the first 4 years I was gone so much it hardly got fed much less watered. Now I feed it but I never water it and it is big and full. I have it trained as a large shrub.

American Beauty Climber in growing in a part of my yard that proves to me it is a great canidate as a shade tolarant rose. Just like my PP it gets fed but never watered. (I get enough rain so that they do not need me to water them).

Ingrid,

I got into roses three years ago and jumped in enthusiastically. My initial goal was to create a small memorial garden to a beloved dog that had died. Well, in searching for the perfect roses (I had had luck with Therese Bugnet and was thrilled)I happened upon Ashdown Roses, and I was lured by the photos, descriptions, histories, names etc. My first trip to Ashdown resulted in about 30 roses...maybe 40...we got as many as we could fit into a Jeep Grand Cherokee, so many that the Pomeranian had to sit on my lap for the 8 hour trip home.

Well, I'm now over 500 different varieties of roses. I love the climbers especially. But, as I walk around my property, I go through periods of joy and sadness. I want each of my roses to grow like the pictures. And I want them to grow without spray!...Talk about reality check. I'm evaluating roses now..to see their habits of growth, their disease resistance, and whether they please me. Rebloom is not really a concern of mine, although I am trying MANY Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes...as well as David Austins. Well this week I looked at my main rose bed and realized I hated it, so I tore up about 30 roses, added evergreen structures and paths, and relocated the roses. I'm pleased with the results so far. I am finding that hybrid perpetuals and bourbons don't seem to care for my yard...I'm sad about the bourbons because I really want them to work.
So, the point of this response? You're not alone in having a reality check.

Robert

And remember -- the garden that's finished is dead.

Your garden will always change and evolve.
That process will continue to happen even if you grow to frail to move or change a rose.
Roses will die. They will mature.
You'll learn about roses you want, and you'll decide which to sacrifice,
in order to have it.
Part of the pleasure is enjoying the evolution.

Jeri

Ingrid, I like this thread of yours.
A reality check on the roses growing in the garden is a good thing.

Here's my five "clear standouts" right now in our intensely hot summer:

* Duchesse de Brabant - because of her incredibly delicious and consistant fragrance, bushy habit, unfailingly healthy leaves, overall plant form, globular/cupped bloom form, & ability to self-clean. This one has no negatives in my book.

* Mrs Dudley Cross - because of its durability, drought tolerance, and its beautiful and healthy large-sized leaves. During tough blackspot breakouts in my garden, I am always thankful I have this rose in my garden, with its healthy leaves, to keep me from getting totally disgusted with my roses.

* Nur Mahal - because of its luxurious, flawless, completely smooth foliage, naturally arching plant form, and rich color. I can not resist running my hands through the plant every time I walk past it, because it's so silky and harmless. The biggest pleasant surprise in a rose that I have ever purchased, because it was such an unknown for me. Wish I had it positioned with some afternoon shade so its beautiful blooms wouldn't crisp in the summer.

* Reine des Violettes - because its blooms are so incredibly "old rose" and powerfully fragrant to me. The bloom form and color never cease to blow me away, love the button-eye. And the blue-greeen, matt foliage is uniquely beautiful. Nice repeat bloom for a Hybrid Perpetual even in the summer after getting well-established. The perfect "short" climber for my needs.

* Heritage - the foliage is okay (looks like the leaves from a Nellie R. Steven's holly), the plant form is okay (a little stiff and modern), but the blooms are pumped out like a well-oiled machine all season long, even in the scorching heat as long as the plant is positioned with afternoon shade and gets lots of water ... and the blooms are beautifully formed all year long. That soft blush color, cupped bloom form, rapid repeat, and self-cleaning ability makes this "modern" rose a must have for me.

Randy

Well all was really good till we got 2 weeks of rain and another on the way! However before all this rain my roses all looked better than ever. Clean leaves, and several have been constantly blooming even in the 90 degree temps. The only issue I have with my roses is black spot some get it others don't and a few have very little to complain over. I was out inbetween the rain storms and noticed quite a few have bs pretty bad. I'm hoping that after weeks of rain they will recover. Mind you I'm not complaining of the rain! Trust me I'm very thankful for it as it had been so dry for months. So here is my report:

Lamarque- By far my favorite for sure! Beautiful flowers are always being put out and with strong fragrance, strong grower and very healthy leaves.
Mrs B. R. Cant- Finally this rose has cleaned up its act. It had bs really bad for 2 years and now (haven't looked at it after all this rain we have had) has nice clean leaves and no bs whatsoever! Hasn't put out a whole lot of flowers and her growth has been slow. I have read she can take awhile to get established and since I have seen good improvement she stays.
Hermosa- Put in the ground this spring and has more than doubled her size. Very little bs and blooms like crazy.
Blush Noisette- Wonderfully strong scent, constantly blooming, another that has more than doubled her size this this spring and healthy leaves with just a touch a bs.
Climbing Pinkie- Very strong grower! Crazy how much this rose grows. So far hasn't rebloomed since spring and gets a fair amount of bs. Beautiful though when blooming and hope to see some better repeat next year.
Marie Pavie- Another strong grower, great repeat and wonderful fragrance.
MAC- I got this one this spring and repotted it but it is still waiting to be put in the ground. So maybe because of that it hasn't been too strong of a grower and hasn't been a very good repeat. When it does bloom the scent is strong and I can just imagine it matured climbing up the pine tree full of flowers! Can't wait! Oh ya, it does get a fair amount of bs as well.
Ducher- Got this as a mistake, repotted it and waiting for a spot to put it in. Again maybe because it is in a pot I don't know but haven'y been too impressed with it. So we'll have to see about this one.
Mrs. D. Cross- So far haven't been too impressed with her either. Slow growing for me and very little repeat but she is a new rose so I'll give her some time. One flower so far since spring but it sure was a beauty!
Sombreil (sp?)- Love this one! Moderatly fast healthy growth, fantastic repeat, beautiful flowers and wonderfuly strong scent!
D D Brant- First year. She's the one that I ordered but got Ducher instead and by the time I new it it was already late spring. So she's got a late start. So far though she has had a pretty good repeat and fairly healthy leaves.

Guess that is everybody! I like posts like this to see how different roses do. It was these types of posts that helped me decided what roses to get. Also lets you know that your not alone when roses don't perform like you want. :O)

Meghan

Right now I'm just struggling to keep my roses (and everything else) in the yard hydrated in this drought. I just drained my rain barrels because it may ran early next week and it hasn't since last weekend, so everything needed water. Since I moved here 8 years ago to new construction, the yard has been a WIP since then.

There are some roses I probably would not replace (with the same one) if they croaked, but for the most part, I'm not going to SP anything unless it doesn't bloom at all.

I think I would be bored if everything was done and all of the roses were behaving perfectly.

There are only about 3 of the 65+ roses I grow that I am not sure about. I guess if I had to make a 'cream of the crop' list it would include:

Maggie--while she has a very slight case of PM during the hottest summer months, she is covered in blooms all of the time. Her bush form is nice and rounded.

Duchesse de Brabant--same as Maggie.

Salet--this rose has really stepped up the bloom production this year (approx. third year in the ground). The foliage is a bright dark green and the blooms are a lovely soft medium pink, which really stand out against the foliage.

Archduke Joseph (MT)--what more is there to say about this magnificent rose?

Secret Garden Musk Climber--blooms all the time; love the bush form wrapped around a rebar tee pee.

That is the short list, though there are many more I could add. I think the reason I am so satisfied with my rose choices is that I researched them thoroughly on this forum before I purchased them. I also realized in the very beginning that I wanted roses that did well in my climate without spraying instead of the perfect bloom on a diseased bush. So, I chose the whole plant over just the bloom. I think that has made all the difference.

That was my mistake in the beginning.. Not choosing a rose based on the whole plant. Thank you Vintage for providing whole bush and mature size and description of roses. I found out about Vintage after I bought a bunch of J&P. Now I am dealing with poor spacing and ugly HTs.
Yes, it is an evolution!

I have been buying only old garden roses from the Sacramento Cemetary and Vintage. Most are still small and I will be planting in the fall. Then I hope my issue of ugly bushes and replacing my duds that are in prime real estate will be a Work In Progress..

It's funny because some of the roses which were doing less than well in the spring (such as Louis Philippe and Molineux) are doing great now and some of the roses which were doing well in spring (Prairie Star and Hermosa) look pretty awful right now. Overall, I would say that the roses which do the best in my Mississippi garden are the Chinas (I love Ducher, White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth, Carnation, Louis Philippe, Vincent Godsiff), the Teas (Monsieur Tillier, Beaute Inconstante, Rosette Delizy, Clementina Carbonieri), Buck roses (Winter Sunset, April Moon, Country Dancer, Pearlie Mae, Golden Unicorn), and Polyanthas (Verdun which I just planted this year has become one of my all time favorites).

I will be getting rid of a couple of Austins (Portmeirion and Sharifa Asma) in the fall when I have a new order coming and a couple of Bucks (Blue Skies and Distant Drums). They're too finicky for me.

I have also discovered that if a rose isn't doing well, moving it just might do the trick. I moved a couple in the spring and they started growing and blooming as they hadn't in the prior location.

Mary

Mary, the oddest thing happened with Hermosa. It was not doing well earlier this summer so I cut it back severely. It has releafed and has lots of blooms and buds on it now with no bspot. Jason Powell at Petals of the Past told me that fertilizing Hermosa on a monthly basis helps also with its bs problems. It seems to be working, but the rest of the summer will tell what it will do.

Gean

Hermosa, Valentine and Francis Dubrueuil are all doing so well this year and they are in pots! I think it is b/c I feed them weekly with Miracle Gro rose food. They all have super clean foliage and are all blooming regularly. My garden roses, for the most part, are resting in this heat. They are all blooming sporadically except for Mutabalis and Allistar Stella Gray which have small but constant blooms. I look forward to a good fall bloom when it is cooler and not so humid.

I, too, like this post. I think for me what I need to see is information on the starter years of roses. When you don't know what to expect, it's hard not to be disappointed with gangly, awkward bushes. BUT if that's the nature of theses roses when immature, I can hang with it. It's the not knowing that's the problem. Thankfully, we have this forum with others in the same boat (dinghies about to swamp?) and others who have moved up to luxury yachts!! We in the dinghies have dreams of rose yachts and smooth sailing! I hope you don't mind the many photos. Personally, the lack of personal experience frustrates me like crazy, so I want to share these in case others feel like they're walking in the dark, too. I'm learning that my roses probably aren't "bad", just immature. And immature roses don't look like mature ones - thankfully!

My most impressive rose is Maman Cochet, CL. Wow! Wow! Wow! Planted at the end of April (3 MONTHS!!!) on a 12' wide x 8' tall trellis, here she is:
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It looks bigger from the other side! No BS. Light blooming right now but it's so young that's to be expected. It just amazes me. An absolutely healthy vigorous rose in hot, humid Florida! This is my "yacht" rose. East location (out my kitchen windows!!!) - sun from 10 to 5.

Monsieur Tillier immediately grew into a nice round bush shape. The flowers are much smaller than I expected (maybe the heat?) but dozens of them! On a bush in the ground for less than 4 months. It's starting a new growth spurt now. Also, no BS! Gets bright shade late afternoon.

Felicia - Wow! In the ground 3 months, 4' tall and heavy blooming. It's had a few yellow leaves, a little BS but not a problem. Nice big clusters of large flowers. Growing in full, all-day sun. I know she smells luscious, but I have not been out in the morning to smell her. (Oh, no!)

Louis Philippe - the iron man. He flushes, partially defoliates, refoliates and flushes again. One in full western sun, one in mostly shade. Can't tell the difference.

Spice - need I say more?
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That's an 8' wide section of 6' tall fence. Planted in 3/07. Zero trouble! Stayed very leafy even in Jan & Feb this year. Flowers are fairly small - maybe an inch & a half. This is the prettiest flush.

Maggie was slow starting, planted in April this year, I think, but it is building up some nice structure with much less BS than I expected - hardly any. Basically, just a few yellow leaves. I think I'm really gonna like this rose. The flowers are BIG even in the heat and tough in the rain and smell strong & GOOD.
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Hermosa - Much less BS than I was expecting. Mine also has doubled in size - maybe more - since December but small of stature & leaf size. Always has lots of really pretty blooms. Really pleased with this one.

Mrs B R Cant - a tough rose bush! Have only seen very few yellow leaves from new growth pushing them out. Last year - her first - she was low & very slowly spreading. This year she sent up 4 straight-up canes, bloomed in candelabra fashion - very surprising to me! - then sent up growth from the candelabras and bloomed again. No more new canes yet. First pic is in second bloom, 2nd one after bloom. To me, these are photos I would like to have seen before, because I had no clue what to expect. And these bushes don't look anything like I thought rose bushes looked like. Now, the trees may be less that helpful to her & she's on Fortuniana. She's a good 5' tall. The trees are 5.5' apart.
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Jean Bach Sisley has been truly lovely until recently. She stayed covered with flowers. She's gotten that "see-through" look with few blooms. Could be the heat or just a normal pause. I fertilized today. I like this rose a lot - nice round shape, beautiful foliage & new growth.

Some climbers: Reve d'or & Chromatella planted a couple of weeks ago going great guns as are Duchesse d'Auerstadt & E Veyrat Hermano, both still in pots. The potted ones are scaring me. They are getting to be monsters. No BS on any of them, just a couple of blooms so far.

Duchesse de Brabant - may be changing out of her ugly duckling stage. Her first tall-caned candelabra shocked me - didn't know about those. She's sent up 3-5 more this season. One is 5' long and leaning. She has a leaning, rectangular shape - very awkward to me. Always with many yellow leaves, some BS. She's been blooming pretty well since the heat set in until now, just finishing a flush. In spring she mildly balled & her blooms were not impressive - pale color. Truly, if I had not heard all the constant raving about this rose, she would have been gone. I'm trusting for a good outcome. This photo is today, 1.5 years in the ground in Florida, land of big, fast-growing plants. DdB is SLOW.
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I didn't mention Marie d'Orleans. She immediately started growing & blooming but has been in a holding patern for about a month. She's just starting new growth. Some yellow leaves - no BS. She's going to be gorgeous.

The Marie's are not for prominent postions here. They will be moved into big pots on the side of the house where I can hopefully walk by and smell their perfume when they're pretty.

The Gruss an Aachens may get the same treatment. Very disappointed in them so far. Not much growth, few leaves, even fewer that aren't grungy and lately the buds are brown and the flowers the size of 50-cent pieces. Yuk!

I was going to say this may be the worst part of the year BS-wise. But then I thought, no, August & September could get a lot worse. Oh, well, I'm gaining experience!

Ingrid, I would think Teas would be a really good bet for you, judging by the Australian Tea Rose Book. It sounds like you have a similar climate.

Sorry this is so long. Hopefully, it's helpful.

Sherry

When you don't know what to expect

*** Some things to expect include a slower progress to maturity than you
would have with a Hybrid Tea.
Also, twiggy growth is GOOD.
In my climate, where blackspot is a non-issue, powdery mildew can
drive you nuts.
Young Teas and Chinas (and some young Noisettes) may have mildew issues
until they mature as plants.
Maturity requires that the plant build up its "bones," so DON'T plan to
prune down those basals your Teas are pushing up.

I think those roses love your heat, Sherry. :-)
Teas and Chinas mature more slowly here, where the weather is cooler,
(and we have little or no rain).
I do see a change as our overall climate heats up.
Plants are putting down roots more quickly now than they used to;
They're pushing basals more quickly than they used to, which is some
consolation for the hotter climate.

Jeri

Jeri, do you think my roses are proceeding normally? I mean, what is is, but something you said made me want to ask. It would be a comfort to know they're OK and normal. Kinda like "Whew! Be ye anxious for nothing." They're not dying, so that's good. And I know enough not to prune - or even shape. One day all those awkward long canes will be a real bush! Right?

Sherry

Thanks, Gean, for that information about Hermosa. I'm going to try your treatment and see how it does. I've wondered about pruning Chinas, because I know you aren't supposed to prune Teas much. The reason I had doubts is because I pruned Mutabilis quite a bit this spring and it has not done much of anything since (grown or bloomed).

Mary

Great post everyone! Wouldn't it be great if every catalog described growth habit as well as Vintage?

Sherry-you've said it well-it's hard when you don't know what to expect. I was very suprised by Louis P's 'disco arms' earlier this year but reassured by folks on this forum. HMF is a great resource but mostly folks seem to post their Sunday best (including me). It would be helpful to see an occasional 'warts and all' picture. I like that you provided measurements-pictures alone can be so deceiving.

My own favorites change from day to day but Mme. Joseph Schwartz stands out for me even though still potted. (Preparing that bed soon, i hope.) A few roses have come and gone already. Clothilde Soupert has bloomed terrifically but then just can't let go of those brown moldy pompons-no way she's going to grow out of that. And i found Just Joey to be just disturbing. Janet may have gotten better with time but probably not better enough.

Ingrid you have about enabled me into trying Wild Blue Yonder myself. And you like Blue Mist better than Baby Faraux or IHT?

Mauirose, I don't think I like Blue Mist better than the others because they look nothing alike. Blue Mist has very small flowers with very many petals and is a light mauve color while the other two are a warmer purple with larger flowers with fewer petals. I do think, though, that IHT is overall better than Baby Faurax, in terms of appearance of flowers and size and appearance of the bush.

Sherry, your Duchesse de Brabant looks nothing like mine, which is low and wide with bushy growth where you can't really see the canes much at all. She's also disease free but I live in a hot and dry climate which seems to discourage disease. I don't have the rust and mildew that Jeri has near the cost. I've definitely noticed that the teas have smaller blooms in the heat, the Duchesse being an exception to that. Mutabilis is hardly blooming at all, and I would have thought it wouldn't mind the heat, especially since it's shaded in the afternoon. My teas that have afternoon shade also are doing better; the flowers aren't shriveling so much in the heat. By the way, I loved your comments about dinghies and yachts. It's really not so bad having a dinghy now when you know you'll have a yacht some day and in the meantime you get to hang out with all the other nice dinghy owners and look up to the yacht owners with respect and admiration.

Ingrid

Ingrid touches on something --

No one can REALLY tell you what is a normal progression for specific roses in
YOUR garden, unless they have lived, oh, next door to you, and grown the same
cultivars, on the same rootstock or lack of rootstock.

It sounds to ME as though Sherry's roses are way ahead of where they'd be in my garden.
It sounds to ME as though Ingrid's roses are going along as they should be.

But I'm not standing in either of your gardens.
And where I AM standing, roses behave differently than they do in YOUR gardens.

Jeri

I feel so much better knowing I am not the only one feeling the distance between my rose garden dreams and my rose garden reality. When I first started acquiring my roses, I was hypnotized by bloom form and fragrance, rarely giving disease resistance and bush form a second thought. In the last couple of years I reversed the order of importance: 1) disease resistance 2) bush form 3) bloom and 4) fragrance. Of course I still look for all of these qualities to be present in one rose, but, usually they are not. One little gem of information I never picked up in my early rose garden days is what a nuisance beautiful blooms can become when they refuse to fall cleanly. For me, it almost zeros out the pleasure of the beautiful bloom. Changing my priorities has brought my rose garden aspirations closer to reality and has greatly reduced my garden labors and anxieties.
Molly

My garden is 12 years old now. I've had a long time to observe how things do here. I do think it is very hard to compare notes when we all live in such different climates. I have been very fortunate here. It is temperate. Roses love the clay soil ammended with compost. I dislike pulling out roses or moving them. Since I have a lot of room roses that might have been banished from a smaller garden remained. Some of the "iffy" rose built slowly into fine roses. Some of them have faults but other attributes that make them worthwhile to me. PaPa Meilland is an example. It is a very awkward shrub that often has die-back, however, the flowers have such a fabulous smell and are such a lovely dark red, plus it has a history, so I keep it and love it for what it is. Jeri said some wise words: "A garden that is finished is dead" I couldn't agree more. The garden changes and evovles and so do we. I can see that you, Ingrid have a sensitive and artistic spirit. Your garden is going to evolve and mature beautifully.

Every rose but one of mine is new this year or last. But the one 'not new' rose is tough, hardy, healthy, and gorgeous even in the shade. I have no idea how long it has been here, as it was here when we moved in and the house had been empty for three years before we moved in. All the more reason to give this rose high marks.

Rose de Rescht. This year I fertilized it well, and the blooms were amazing and abundant! Rebloom has been spotty, but it is putting out new growth like CRAZY. I hope I get a good fall flush, too. And the darn thing is in the shade, of all places, and planted under plastic and rocks! It had a tiny problem with thrips, and doesn't like it when the pine tree drops big splats of sap onto it's leaves, naturally.

I can't wait to see what it does when I actually get it moved to a good, sunny location and out of the rocks and plastic.

*** Since I have a lot of room roses that might have been banished from a smaller garden remained. Some of the "iffy" rose built slowly into fine roses. Some of them have faults but other attributes that make them worthwhile to me. ***

Pam, you teach an excellent lesson here. Because you have the luxury of space, roses in your garden get the chance to outgrow or shine through their awkwardness and/or faults to eventually reveal the outstanding traits for which you chose them in the first place.

Personally, I think I needed to adjust my attitude. I felt somewhat embarrassed by the condition of many of my roses in the front yard. "What will people think about these ugly roses?" But I see know that's totally wrong. I need to reserve judgment - for perhaps a long time - until these roses can establish themselves and live up to the descriptions that sold me on them.

Basically, Pam, you have softened my attitude toward my roses with your words. I wasn't really ready to yank any, but still, you provided a whole new perspective - a more long-suffering one. And I must interject this from a Bible study because it so perfectly reflects my change of heart: "Long-suffering is that patient endurance and steadfastness under ill-will (BS, PM, etc), that has no thought of retaliation (shovel-pruning). It is that quality of self-restraint which does not retaliate or punish (ban from the garden). Long-suffering is the opposite of anger, is associated with mercy and does not surrender to circumstances (defoliation & need for space)." Yes, my attitude since reading your remarks is merciful toward my roses - no joke. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and time along with water and nourishment.

And just now I was watering and saw several roses with bare canes starting to leaf out. Roses are full of surprises, and now I don't want to miss any of them.

Sherry

low and wide with bushy growth

*** Many Teas seem to grow low and wide, before they begin to gain height.

Jeri

Thank you very much, Pat, you are so kind.

Ingrid

The responses on this thread are truly inspiring. Last week I had redesigned my rose bed, and even though, now I have many shriveled roses (which I believe will bounce back in time), I am loving them again. This past weekend I went to a favorite nursery, focused on getting some unusal evergreens to add to my roses...and, I remained focused and returned with some glorious specimens. I have faith that my garden will become what I imagine. I also realize it will be a constant metamorphosis. Thanks for sharing everyone.

Robert

My growing conditions, in Oslo, Norway, (down to 20 degrees celcius below zero in winter - months and months of rain sometimes) is probably way different from most of you, and hardly what Ingrid was in the market for, but since you asked for different sorts of experiences, here goes. My best roses are the following:

Old roses:
- Rose de Rescht (Autumn Damask): Healty, seldom without flowers, beautiful colours, wonderful fragrance. Small bush, perfect for the small garden.App. 1 meter tall.

- Ispahan (Damask): Healty, wonderful fragrance, in bloom for almost 6 weeks, vigorous. Will grow as much as you let it - easily 2 meters tall.

- Commandant Beaurepaire (Bourbon): Extremely vigorous, masses of flowers in its first flush, some flowers later, very good fragrance, healthy. About 1.5 meters tall.

- Hippolyte (Gallica): One of the very darkest of roses. Has been voted most beautiful rose and best scented rose in my garden. 2 meters tall.

Hurdalsrosen (Alba): The largest rose in my garden - 4 by 5 meters. This is not a bush, it is a tree! It makes people go "Oh my God" when it is in bloom - which sadly is only for about two to three weeks. No scent, but very pretty medium size flowers.

Austin roses:

- Constance Spry: Enormously vigorous- reached my roof in three years, and the two I now have, which are planted on each side of the chimney form a wall of roses. Nice musk scent, large flowers of breathtaking beauty.4 meters tall. Generally healthy.

- Gertude Jekyll: One of the best scented modern roses, and one with lots of flowers and very healthy.

- Golden Celebration:

Best scented yellow rose, and rarely without flowers. Large beautiful flowers. Healthy.

Ramblers:

- Chevy Chase (Red rambler - 3 meters and growing).
extremely vigorous, lots of flowers and very healthy.
- Veilchenblau: (Lilac rambler - 5 meters): Ditto
- Minnehaha: (Pink rambler- 4 meters and growing): Ditto.
- Helenae hybrida: White rambler- 5 meters and growing) Ditto. Lovely fragrance.

I have to say this is such a good thread. Instead of a laundry list of good roses it has so much more just as roses and gardens are so much more. Sherry, I love your words from Bible study.

I just had another thought. Patience with these roses that are not quite up to my expectations will give me time to learn more and experiment with different remedies - organic sprays, etc. I also thought that my present "hovering" attitude reminds me of "first baby syndrome" where the new mama is constantly peeking & checking on her newborn, compressing months of worry into a few weeks. These roses will grow and progress - if I'll just let them. It's that patience thing again. But it IS fun to hover over them.

Sherry

- Golden Celebration:
Best scented yellow rose, and rarely without flowers. Large beautiful flowers. Healthy.

*** That is true in my garden, as well.
It's interesting to see that, as our climates could not be more different.

One thing we've learned about Golden Celebration.
This is a very thirsty rose. It does not tolerate going short of water.

Jeri

Cristina, thank you for sharing your rose choices. It would be wonderful to see pictures of your garden in the spring. All these huge shrubs and climbers must make a truly impressive display. It's interesting that even though you live in Norway most of the roses you mention are known and grown here.

Robert, I think your idea of planting beautiful evergreens in your garden is such a good one. When the roses aren't at their best the evergreens will distract the eye, and when they are the green bushes will form a beautiful backdrop to the roses. That's one of the reasons I have so many companion plantings, not only for their intrinsic interest but also because they are such a good supporting cast to the roses. Perhaps that way we won't feel this pressure to have our roses be constant, perfect performers.

Ingrid