I'm also considering the Pilgrim goose.

--Jonathan

I am fairly new at this, but with 6/7 hens, maybe you want to forget the rooster. I am told that a ratio of 10-1 is good, but I think 15-1 would be lots better. We are working towards that ratio.

Pilgrims are sweethearts. I have a trio plus one American Buff. Buffs and Pilgrims have the best reputations for being good-natured and docile.

I've had both Speckled Sussex and Dominques. The Doms are new this year and are working out great so far. The Sussex were good too: excellent foragers, good mothers but only maybe 20% went broody, but they were very noisy and the large single comb of our rooster did suffer frostbite. This year we decided to try the Doms instead. They are good foragers and there is less scrapping than among the Sussex hens. They tend to free-range in a group, which I think is safer than in ones and twos.

I strongly advise having secure housing for all the birds and locking them in at dusk. It will cut your predator losses considerably.

Don't forget that you can eat duck and goose eggs as well as hen's eggs. They tend to be a bit richer, but they are every bit as good, especially for baking. And if you are not buying males of the species, you may as well eat the eggs. Any exrras can be boiled or scrambled and fed back to the chickens for extra protein. I'm getting too many right now and am beginning to think I should hard boil and freeze some for this year's chicks. Egg is a great supplement to chick starter.

You do need more hens for a rooster or he will run the poor girls to death, pulling out feathers while mating and just generally chasing them, we learnt the hard way. We kept our ducks and chickens separate.They are all in a 1 1/2 acre fenced in pasture along with our goats and ponies.The best for eggs we have found are Rhode Island Reds and Red Stars. Sounds like a good plan. They really need shelter from the winter elements and preditors. Ours are in enclosed chicken coop with an enclosed chicken yard and we have still had birds of prey get one or two while they were free ranging. We have had fox's get a few and almost all of our ducks but 2. You might want to get a few more because there will be some attrician(We have ended up with40 :)
...ie..sickness/wild animals ect....We get all of our birds vaccinated at the hatchery.. Sounds like a good plan though and good luck......

Thanks, that's helpful about the rooster. We were on the fence and had read that it would help with the pecking order, but I guess that's for larger flocks.

No rooster!

Now, we're thinking that all six ducks will be Fawn and White Runners. And we're up to eight chickens on our short list:

2 Dominique
2 Barred Plymouth Rock
2 Speckled Sussex
1 Araucana
1 Buff Brahma

You've sold me on the Pilgrim goose. Okay, we were leaning in that direction anyway. :)

Maggie, regarding the Sussex, were your hens okay in the cold? Getting appropriate species for our cold climate is certainly a critical consideration for us.

--Jonathan

I picked my breeds( I have 8 hens, 6 breeds) based on a lot of the same things as you. I have one barred rock-great choice. If you would like your children to have lap chickens I highly recommend the beautiful, cold hardy & super friendly buff orpington. I also have a black australorp that my daughter plans to show at 4-H this summer, I adore that chicken.
I didn't want feather footed varieties & I wanted a colorful flock as well. My other birds are EE's(I love those blue/green eggs), 1 red star(superstar layer), 1 SLW (her feathering is gorgeous).
My flock is housed in a coop & free ranges my suburban yard.
Depending on the climatewhen your chicks arrive you'll need to brood them indoors for more than two weeks, mcmurrayswebsite has very detailed brooding info(ideals probably does too)
Good luck!

1. A 4' fence will keep in the ducks and geese, but not the chickens. It will not keep out ANY predators.

2. 8 hens to one rooster is a perfectly acceptable ratio in most cases. Never heard of this rule of 10 is good and 15 better, but the birds can't count.

3. 2 weeks indoors will probably be fine for the waterfowl, but in March it might still be too early. Chicks will need warmth for much longer, 6 to 8 weeks, at that time of year. You've got a lot of research to do.

4. Children of that age who are now considered potential hazards, and who have not been taught how to treat birds, may be very rough on them, especially while the birds are young and easily accessible while in the house. Same for the dog.

5. All of the chicken breeds which you mentioned will do fine in your area, especially hens. So will most others with proper care. The biggest issue is males with big combs which freeze easily. They're all the same species.

A couple clarifications for Patrick:

1. My plan is to have heat lamps in the barn. They just get more space, over there.

2. My kids will be extremely closely supervised with them. Likely, the little one won't handle the chicks at all. Maybe not the big one either. The dog will not get on the same side of a door with them.

3. In addition to the 4' fence around the paddock, there will be chicken wire fencing around their yard with a ceiling. I'm still puzzling out the chicken yard dimensions. Maybe 12 X 12. Fencing around the pond is more of a trick, though. Likely, electrifying part of the paddock fence would be the way to go.

--Jonathan

Chicken fencing does not keep out predators. It will keep your chickens in though.

Perimeter fencing to keep out predators needs to be small holed, like chain link, at least 5 feet tall, and either sunk into the ground one foot, or the wire needs to be extended out about a foot so nothing can dig under.
Raccoons & opossums will climb any fence. If you keep your chickens locked up at night in a secure coop, then you won't, or shouldn't have to worry about night time predators.

Electric at both the top & bottom of your perimeter fence should work.

12 by 12 feet is too small for 8 chickens. It will soon turn into a dirt yard.

I would suggest getting more chickens than you plan on now.
Sometimes chicks & adult chickens die without any notice.

Also, in the wintertime, unless you put lights in your coop, egg production, especially in the north, drops down to 0 to 25% depending. If you get too many eggs in the summer, give them to friends, or sell extras.

spring chicks usually, depending on breed, don't start laying until the fall or 6 months, if at all that year. Then with shorter days, cut back or stop until spring. Getting a few adult chickens to start out would give you a jump start on egg production. Good Luck.

M

The one thing you need to know, Johnathon is that everything you read on the internet is not necessarily true. Your own experience is the best lesson.

In our experience: We allow our chickens to free range. When they were too small to do that, the solar fencing protected them 100%. We, of course, locked them in at night. As far as egg production dropping in the winter, we are still waiting for that. Hasn't happened.

We are in the middle of nowhere and we have coyotes, fox, etc. out here. The only chickens we have lost to predators were to raccoons, large feral cats, and our daughter's dog. The dog is no longer welcome here.

We caught the raccoons in a Have-a-Heart trap and removed the feral cats. (They left us a litter of kittens that we had to have 'fixed' this summer. We love them, and they are great mousers. They grew up with the chickens that were food for mommy and daddy and are no danger to them at all now.) So just go for it. The worst hardly ever happens anyway.

Jonathan, rgarding the Speckled Sussex and frostbite, the hens were fine... a couple had very minor frostbite on the tips of the comb, but nothing serious.

However, our rooster, Napoleon, suffered frostbite every year on his comb and wattles. In September 2005, he had an accident, crashlanding from the roost into the nestbox, and suffered a severe concussion. He also lost the sight in one eye. He made a fairly good recovery, but during the 2005-6 winter, he developed severe frostbite and we found him far from his yard, lying in the driveway.

He rarely left the yard and he was obviously unwell, so we brought him indoors, and treated his frostbite as best we could. He perked up for a couple of days, then took a sudden turn for the worse and died. As a result of this experience, we decided to try a breed with a rose comb... hence the Dominiques.

Interesting that 12 X 12 is too small a yard. I do hope that they will free range much/most of the time, but I want the option of keeping them close to the barn. I do plan to keep everyone locked up inside at night.

Free ranging is appealing to me. I'm just concerned about daytime predators. I have seen foxes and coyotes here in the daytime, though not anywhere near the barn. The presence of chickens could change that, though.

Pilgrim geese wouldn't protect against foxes, could they? I imagine they'd be the first line of defense (and thus, probably the first to go).

--Jonathan

Friends of mine that have chickens have a real problem with hawks, They are near the woods but have a lot of open area that they free range the chickens in. We haven't had any trouble with hawks but we have a lot of tree coverage for them and some dogs. We have a five foot fence but the hens don't come out very often, occaisionally, as they feel safer inside. and our two dogs nose them back up over the fence. We have been very lucky as our dogs don't try to catch them but do want them to stay in their own area. I call them my chicken herders. We have a sleeping place for them a mini barn of sorts, but most of them roost in the trees that are inside their area.

Roberta is right in that everyone's experience isn't necessarily the experience that you will have. People in this area told me for years I couldn't keep hens without a top but so far we have been fine. Course most of them also told me that I couldn't get eggs without a roo. L You really have to experiment to see what will work for you. I also like to get a consensus from this site. their is a lot of good info here.

Good Luck!!

CI

Jonathan, if you intend to free-range the chickens most of the time, you might be able to get by with a 12' x 12' pen. The vegetation will be eaten pretty quickly, but if it is just for security in times of trouble, that need not worry you too much.

I have eight hens and a roo and I would like to add just such a secure pen to the outside of the chicken house so that the pop-hole could be open 27/7 from spring until fall. That way the chickens could at least be outside at the crack of dawn and I could let them out to free-range at civilized hour like 8 a.m. And times when the hawks are a problem, they could stay in it all day and I could cut fresh alfalfa, clover and so on for them. I find that if the hawks don't get a meal for a week or so, they tend to move on, at least for a while.

Of course, if you can make their pen a bit bigger than that -- maybe 15' x 18' -- it would be better.

Hi Zootjsj and welcome to the wonderful world of poultry.

Your scheme so resembled ours I couldn't resist a reply, but as beginners, it truly is a mere 2 cents worth. We have 4 Indian runners, 2 Buff Orpingtons, 2 Brown Chinese and 2 Toulouse. How's that for a mimic of your plans!

We raised all of them from a home made brooder - as wonderfully educational as it was messy - so fair warning. All were very different. As we put it, "the chicks were dizzy, the ducklings were busy, but the goslings would look you in the eye!"

The "buffies" (recommended by my Mom who raised birds for years) are good layers (brown eggs) very sweet and easy to handle. I'm told they're a dual purpose bird (okay for the table) but can't verify from experience. Were so pleased with them weÂre planning for more, or a good buff roo as they do go broody and will populate.

The Runners are equally reliable layers, but too flighty to sit on a nest. We have 2 drakes and 2 ducks. They are very "patterned" birds - so what ever routine you begin, know that they'll count on its repeating, everyday. They will rid your gardens of bugs & slugs (of which we have no shortage in these parts). We give ours range of the garden in the mornings, it's hard to herd them back to the pen though.

Our drakes are fiercely protective too, though not at all aggressive to humans. Early last summer when the geese were younger, though 3 times the size of the runners, we would put them together in the same yard to keep them safe while we were away. Rudy, our lead drake, would not back down for the sake of size. He once latched on to the tail of a goose that got too close I guess. She ran around the coop twice bellowing and trying to shake him loose. He held on tight, flailing and bobbing along behind her like a loose diaper. Finally Lincoln, our gander got involved and then things got even more exciting! Suffice to say that after that we got busy fencing a separate paddock for the geese.

We free range our geese when we can. I believe they're healthier for it. Ours do not wander much. We raised our Chinese (thinking they were Africans), and added the Toulouse after we lost a pair in a dog attack. And yes, as someone mentioned, Fido across the street, who wags his tail every day as you retrieve the mail can surprise you and become your #1 predator. In nearly a year, this was the cause of our only loss (though I think weÂve also been plain lucky).

We are finding our gander to be a bit of a handful now that breeding season is approaching. We tried not to get too chummy as we raised them and I would offer you the same advice. Don't hand feed them, etc. We are simply learning to work with/and around him now, and fortunately have the space to do so. We don't have children, which would worry me at the same level as an aggressive dog with kids about. Don't know if its due to his breed, upbringing or individual nature, but he is beginning to slowly charge us at night when its time for lock down. The Toulouse are more mellow, but were flock raised and are now beholden to our gander - so can't tell you much more about them. Just be careful with these guys. Oh and yes, gosh are the Chinese noisy!

Good fencing and night shelter is a must, at least around here - we went the extra mile and have been grateful for it - cage wire 8"-12" underground then overlapped with chicken wire 6ft or so up! We supply grain and layer pellets supplemented with greens we've grown on our own. All are terrific foragers if you plan to free range. We get lots of advice from the homesteader down the way who blatantly told us that despite all you do, you have to expect some losses. If you have farmers in your area, make friends and ask lots of questions.

Hope this was helpful. Good luck. You'll do just fine with what ever you decide, have a ball and learn lots along the way. Please, please keep us posted. No matter where youÂre at as your plans unfold, we can inevitably learn from your individual experiences too!

Since you asked for a reality check I am not going to gush, but your plan sounds reasonable. Her are some thoughts.

1) I'm tempted to advise a slower start. We started with chickens 10 years ago. Added ducks 5 years ago, and plan to add geese this year. Follow your desires, but most books would probably offer the same advice.

2) To a large extent the animals will do what they do, not necessarily what you want. The area around the barn will likely be barren of vegetation, regardless of the size of the chicken run, just because that is where they will spend the majority of their time. The solution is to cross-fence the pasture, and move them to different small sections. This requires a moveable coop and may be more work than you want. Option 2, accept that there will be little vegetation around the barn (that's what we do).

3) There are obviously many different experiences out there. As far as egg production, my experience is that 1st year pullets will begin laying late fall, and continue through winter. The second year they lay extremely well spring and summer, then slack off the second winter. Each year after that they only lay in the spring, until reaching 5 or 6 when they shut down completely. (we had one light brahma bantam hen that lived to the ripe old age of twelve. Many years past her productive age, but she was so small we just let her live out her years. We generally can't afford to feed animals not in production.) Since egg production is low on your priorities, this should not be an issue.

4) Entertainment value is NO PROBLEM. They are a blast to watch.

Oh, and finally, whatever plan you make will change once they arrive and decide to do their own thing and not bother to read your plan. Our main purpose is feeding our family, so the priorities will be different, but the end result is that we constantly evaluate our results, and adjust accordingly. It's never dull.

Good luck, Have fun.

I have 3 hens and 1 rooster...it was suppose the be 4 hens..hmmm hmmm,anyways they are ok,but do I need to get more hens?? Now I'm worried.

This is a little late but perhaps this information will help someone else.

The hardiest chickens which took 20 below weather (inside) were the English games which locally are termed "banties". The next was the green egg chickens.
I have Wyandottes, Black and Golden sex links, Plymouth Rocks, but you have to be careful as allot of birds advertised as "setters" are so artificial commercial inseminated now that they do not set which is important if you want to save money and raise chicks.
Brooders must be warm and dry. Horse troughs get wet and stay wet and chicks die quickly or get diseases fast.

Everything loves chicks and chickens. Rats, cats, dogs, fox, horned owls, badgers (eat the brains out and leave the body) hawks, mink, coon, coyotes and bobcats will make quick work of your property. You are going to have to employ a trapping program as a hobby or you will be heart sick looking at all your pets disappearing. I even lost a Canada goose male to a red fox.

Contrary to what is above, you do need a rooster as the hens will for lack of a better word just sit in front of you otherwise waiting for what roosters do. So you do need a rooster to keep things working as nature intended.
Roosters too as for breeds differ in aggression on hens. An English Game or Leghorn are 24/7 breeders, but I have a Americana my neice gave me named Bruster with 2 other White Highland 55's for 8 hens and there is no problem damaging the hens.

For ducks, I love the English Caller, but they like all ducks can be difficult to raise. I might suggest Muscovy "ducks" which set like the best brood hens, are quiet and very hardy and forage on their own.
I prefer the black and white as they are prettier than the white which tend to be kind of greasy looking.

For geese, I have never had Pilgrims, but hear good things about them. I have had though Toulouse, brown and white Chinese, Embden. The Chinese geese are noisy and light geese.
The Toulouse will set, but you have to take the goslings from the mother as they do not take very good care of the little ones. Embden will set and raise young ones, but the best thing is to not get bit, take the little ones, keep them warm and feed them.
Geese are like puppies in just loving human attention. You can't pet them but they will adopt you as parents quickly.

I hope this helps.

Good advice here. :) Your breed choices look good, the heavy breed girls do well in the cold. Seconding the advice for small-combed birds if you live in an area that gets very cold in winter. Also, how old are your chickens at purchase time? If getting chicks, I'd strongly advise keeping them in a warm place until they are two months old, before turning them out into the barn for good. It's a little extra inconvenience that pays off in more birds surviving to adulthood. Cold and drafts are big time chick killers.

I've got a chicken info page here that might help, although I am in southern California so I don't have the same severe cold weather issues that you do (instead I get to deal with blistering heat!):

http://home.earthlink.net/~velvetsparrow/VSChick.htm

Good luck and have fun! :)

Velvet ~:>

All your advice is much appreciated!

Here's an update.

Currently, we have seven adolescent chickens, about seven weeks old. After I spent many a night torturing my wife trying to decide exactly what varieties to get, I went in on an order with three other people, and they all got mixed up. What I believe I've wound up with are:

1 Dominique
1 Barred Rock
1 Buff Orpington
3 Araucanas
1 Yellow and black one which I'm not sure what it is yet

This is vaguely what I was after.... Close enough.

Meanwhile, I found a source for white Indian runner duck eggs, and fifteen of them are now incubating in my son's nursery classroom. I'm hoping a dozen will hatch, and then will gear up for giving the drakes to someone the teacher knows who says that they will spend thier lives grazing nicely in a lovely farm somewhere. Yeah right! I won't ask any questions....

I've got a lady who expects her pilgrim goose eggs to hatch in a few weeks and I'll give her a call then.

The chicks are living in a 9X9 stall, which seems more than enough space for them. They have a temporary yard that's 10X10, and are just venturing out of there. Five are adventurous, two are total homebodies and stay inside all the time still. Still puzzling out the permanent yard.

My 4-year-old son delights in digging up worms and handfeeding them. He yells "wormy worm" and they come running.

The horse trough worked very nicely as a place to brood them.

We've had one rather grisley unexpected issue crop up (if you'll excuse the pun), which none of the books talk about. I had created a little wood structure in the brooder as a fire safety device for the head lamp. Basically, a raised screen. One day I found a chick with a string coming out of her mouth, the other end tangled around this structure. How the string wound up in there, I do not know. I wouldn't want to blame a certain 4-year-old.... Anyhow, I tried to pull it out of her (gently!), but it got to a point where it wasn't moving any more. I called our vet who said to cut it. We did, and she seems fine, more than a month later. But ewwww!

--Jonathan

Well, the addiction has probably started. Next spring you'll be ordering more, trying to "deal" chicks to neighbors in order to get to the minimum.....
Seriously, it sounds like you've made a good start. If you do another order next year, be sure to get the Speckled Sussex. My husband got me into chickens about 10 years ago (he'd had them for about 5 years before we met). Anyway, the SS are probably my favorites, they are by far the friendliest and funniest, they do chatter non-stop when they see a person coming and will follow me around the property like a dog.
We also love our Barred Rocks and Buff Orpingtons. The Brahmas are very hardy and beautiful to boot. You might also look into the Hamburgs, they are great layers and wonderful mothers. If you need a rooster, the Hamburg roosters are the gentlest we've had thus far. Good with the kids and they don't beat up on the hens. We also love the Wyandottes, we have Blue Laced Reds and Silver Laced, my husband has one that will hop up on his shoulder at every given opportunity.
As for breeds we won't get again, the Leghorns were very skittish and frantic. We didn't really like the Andalusians, the hens were kind of delicate and the roosters were outright nasty.
Keep posting,
Annette

glad to hear its going well!!!!

It's so fascinating to read this thread, a year after the fact. What a lot has happened!

And what good advice you all give, regardless of whether or not I followed it.

Some updates:

1. The duck eggs were duds, and the goose lady didn't work out, so I ordered day olds from Holderreads, and currently have eleven pure white Indian runners and four pilgrim geese. By the way, Holderreads is a really wonderful source, and it seems to be the only place to get "The Book of Geese," which is a really terrific book (by Dave Holderread).

2. One late morning, a fox killed two chickens (buff orpington and barred rock) and a duck. So, I fenced in an area outside the barn that's about 25x25, five feet high. So much for free access to the pond. Now, the visits there have to be supervised. When it's not frozen, I try to get them there a couple times a week.

3. We have a new beagle puppy who definitely wants to play with the birdies. She does a pretty good job of testing security... as well as everyone's patience....

4. After the fox incident, a friend gave me two australorps and a cochin bantam. We briefly auditioned a bantam rooster (also named Napoleon), but he was too noisy.

So, the chickens are:

2 australorps
4 auracanas (the mystery yellow one turned out to be an auracana)
1 dominique
1 bantam cochin

They are all doing fine in the cold. Figuring out how to get water in these freezing temperatures has been a learning experience, but it's going okay, now.

We have eggs enough to give to friends and co-workers. This spring, I will try to figure out how to put everyone to work weeding.

The dead of winter is a fairly miserable time to tend to poultry, but it's a lot of fun, overall.

--Jonathan

The run is 50x50, not 25x25. I was thinking 2500 square feet.

--Jonathan