The only one on your list I have is Heritage, and mine is clean. How old are these roses? I have noticed in my no spray garden that a lot them get more resistant with some age on them. I have a few "baby Buck's" right now that look awful, but I know from experience that they will improve in a couple of years. Donna

It's not blackspot (our big problem is powdery mildew) but we have also found that a great many roses gain disease-resistance with maturity. In our garden, this is particularly true with Tea Roses.

When we first planted 'Le Pactole' I was terribly disappointed to see it mildew lightly, all over, most of the time.
It surprised me, because the mother plant I had seen was clean as a whistle.
Now, after maybe 4 years, our 'Le Pactole' has reached about 2/3 the size of it's monster mama, and it is clean as a whistle.
The blooms have gotten larger, too.
I have found that not pruning them down, but allowing them to reach the size and form they are biologically programmed to be seems to increase their disease-resistance.

Mrs. Dudley Cross is mildewy in my area -- but she's supposed to be resistant to blackspot. How old is your plant?

Jeri

Sammy, I've having a hard time seeing La Biche on your list of "may be gones". Our climates are so similar and I've never seen any problems on either of my La Biches. What seems to be the problem with this one in particular? I grow all the rest on that list and can see where in a "no spray" garden you would have a problem in this climate with the rest..but not La Biche.

Kaye, you think La Biche will make it? That is one reason that I posted, so I could get some feed back from others. La Biche bloomed,and had great blooms, then the leaves looked bad, and it defolitated. I have been hoping that she would come back, but right now she is almost naked.

After our 21 days of rain, many of my roses have powdery mildew - all 4 of Martha Gonzalez do, but I know Martha should bounce back. La Biche just really doesn't look good. I am hoping that she will regrow her leaves and look great.

Donna and Jeri, you have similar responses. I will definitely continue to monitor these roses and watch them. I would love for them to gain strength as they get older. That would also be true of La Biche.

Sherry, I think it is true that you need to learn how to handle a rose. You need to know whether to cut back, wait, or just enjoy the blooms on imperfect bushes.

Sammy

Sammy, with all the rains, we had some roses with leaves that turned yellow and some dropped, but La Biche was not one of them. Like I said before, I've never seen this rose have a problem..just wonder if something else is going on with her. What did the leaves do before they defoliated? Did you see BS? We do spray but I always skip this one.

I kept Gruss an Teplitz for years and it never improved. Terrible BS, hardly any leaves. I don't know why I kept it as long as I did...Certainly don't miss it.

Oh, Gruss an Teplitz was a disaster here in coastal SoCal. Mildewed ALL the time.
I gave it 4-5 years and gave it the old heave-ho.

Jeri

golden celebration is perfect for me- never gets anything on it period.

On your list, 'Mrs Dudley Cross' is really blackspot resistant for me. Not immune to it, but very resistant in my garden. I like her very much, even though she's the biggest thrip-magnet I've ever grown.

'Heritage' gets some blackspot, but is within my tolerance range. And its perfect blooms and great scent makes it one of my favorites.

For what it's worth, the longer I grow roses, the more I like them. But at the same time, the more I realize I don't need too many of them, and I need lots of the following plants to go with them:
Red Yucca - Texas native
Salvia greggi - Texas native
Daylily
Iris
Summer phlox
herbs, herbs, & more herbs

Randy

La Biche and Puerto Rico are two of my healthiest non-stop bloomers.
Gruss an Teplitz is forever the prima donna, but worth the problems for the fragrance.
Baronne Prevost grows more fungus than leaves, unless he likes his location.
You've got to take into account 21 days of rain coupled with the cool is going to spell fungal free-for-all. That happened here in 2007, pretty gross.
Randy's suggestion of companion plants is great. I particularly love Salvia Greggii and all herbs. Lavender is fantastic here in Texas. Agastashe is also a great choice and a hummingbird magnet, as are the salvias.

Hey Randy! We picked up two greggii yesterday (rose, and red) and one S. clevelandii. If you like greggii, check out "Hotlips."

BTW, please remember that the rose y'all are growing as La Biche IS NOT LA BICHE.
It is the true 'Mlle. de Sombreuil,' (Tea, Int. 1850-1851)
She was widely praised in her day for her resistance to mildew.

Jeri

I can't imagine shovel pruning 'Baronne Prevost'. Sure it loses some foliage, but still, beautiful flower form, shapely shrub and iron constitution must have some small bearing on the decision.

'Baronne Prevost' is one of the few HPs that have really thrived for us, here in coastal SoCal.
In our climate, she makes a lanky climber but you are sure right about the lovely flower form -- and she's reasonably disease-resistant here, too.

All that adds up to the reason she's still growing here, after 20 years.

Jeri

You know I quit spraying too- here's the ones on your list that I have:
Johann Strauss- Got rid of it. Too few leaves when going no spray, not much scent.
Puerto Rico- Still here but will be replaced whenever I need the room. Doesn't die back from blackspot, but doesn't keep leaves, either.
Gruss an Teplitz- Didn't have to get rid of it... died during winter because was so weak from black spot.

Baronne Prevost has flowers? I never knew that. Of course it never had leaves, either. At least it seems to be one of those roses that shovel pruned itself, saving me the bother.

Jeri, I went to get some more salvia greggi today too. Unfortunately, they were out, so I'll have to wait to add to my collection.
Thanks for the tip on 'Hotlips'

Randy

> Baronne Prevost has flowers? I never knew that.

Kay, even you should be able to coax a few flowers from him!

{{gwi:283947}}

You're cheating! That one has leaves.

Seriously, it was very similar to Comte de Chambord here. The blackspot was so bad that the poor thing just sat there, didn't grow and certainly didn't bloom.

What this whole thing illustrates -- AGAIN -- is that different conditions demand different roses.

Roses that are clean in my garden turn out to be bigtime blackspotters in places where that's a problem. Roses that mildew or rust horribly here, turn out to be blackspot resistant.

Iceberg is so resistant here, it's used for gas station landscaping. Take it into blackspot country, and it's apparently a mess.

They say that "all politics is local."
It's obvious that rose evaluation is also local.

That's why the system of huge rose producers marketing roses identically to the entire country, inevitably means that some cultivars will be sold to people who could not possibly succeed with them.

Jeri

Jeri,

Oh yes ICEBURG is a complete, utter, black spot disaster here in the east - BUT - he responds well to fungicides. Go figure. Same thing can be said for Heritage.

Frankly, 99.9% of all roses suffer here in black spot hell. Even the much vaulted KNOCKOUT will spot up on the lower leaves. The only rose I've seen that was completely clean was a spectacular specimen of Rosa rugosa alba growing in a city garden. It also had evil thorns so closely studded together that the canes looked like some kind of weird cactus.

So if you want remontancy and full, lush flowers, then you'd either better spray or learn to put up with naked bushes. At least that is my experience in the Mid-Atlantic where black spot rules.

I would never get rid of Baronne even if I have to cut it back. This year we've had a lot of rain and she's horrible. I don't recall what she was like at the other house; I don't spray.
{{gwi:283948}}From Roses

Kaye, I just took another look at La Biche, and the canes are mainly bare with new growth at the top of a couple of canes - and a new flower. Sadly, that is the one rose with bermuda that I have put off weeding. It takes so much longer to dig out bermuda, than regular weeds, and I couldn't reach the bermuda safely with Round Up. Considering that you have no problem with her, I am going to get out the bermuda, and watch her. She is between Mrs. B.R. Cant and Belinda's Dream. When I get to the base of the rose, I may find out that there is some important damage.

Jimmie'sgran and Jerri, as soon as the rain stops, Gruss an Teplitz is gone. I think the bloom is unique, but it won't work for me.

Joebar, it is a beautiful rose at first, but the black spot is ugly. It will be interesting to see which roses spring back, and which ones need to go.

Randy, I have added those companions to my list. What herbs do you like? I bought a flat of herbs, and as I smelled them, I realized that I don't enjoy eating them. Now it may be too late to put them in the ground.

Thrips are terrible with the rain.

Greybird, I have added yours to my list. I guess I need to watch Puerto Rico as well as La Biche.

Jerri, I made a list of the roses that were misnamed last winter, and have them around here somewhere. What would you do if you were to purchase a rose from a nursery that you consider reputable, and the nursery named it an older name, like La Biche. Would you use the nursery's name, or the authentic one. The authentic name makes sense, but the nursery name seems more accurate. I have this with a number of roses, but Nicole comes to mind. It is now Hannah something, but what I purchased was Nicole. (In Nicole's case it would be easier since Edmund's is out of business and cannot make the correction. I mean Mr. Edmund, not the people he sold it to.)

Palustris, you are one of many that feels that way. It is growing new growth, but the old is 100% black spot, and will more than likely drop the leaves.

Jeri, I may just learn to live with the imperfections of Baronne Prevost. It is one of my first roses, and by dating back to 1841, is one of my oldest roses.

cweathersby, next to Kaye in Arkansas, yours and Randy's weather and growing conditions are very similar to mine. I am interested in what everyone can grow as no spray, but especially those of you who are only a short drive from me.

Mad_Gallica, you're so funny!!! I can say that about so many roses in the past.

Palustris, those are beautiful, absolutely beautiful - and just look at those thorns!

Mad_Gallica, Comte de chambord was one I got because Gertrude Jeckyl would only bloom once. Comte just sat there. I think for three years I tried to keep it, and it gave me occasional blooms and almost no growth nor leaves.

Oh, Iceberg! Jeri, I had it with Prairie Star, and I think there were three of them. I sprayed them so diligently, and did my best with them. For a long time I did not read the zones well, and thought there was something wrong with me that they would not perform well.

Patrick, what about Carefree Beauty, Penelope, and some of the teas and chinas? Is your zone not suited for teas and chinas?

Sue, I feel so much support for Baronne that I am going to fertilize it, and try to really baby it and see if it can be a success. The same goes for La Biche.

Thank you all for the wonderful responses and discussions.

Sammy

Sammy to answer your question, my favorite herbs are:

* Lemon thyme (rub your fingers over it and it really does smell like fresh lemons)
* 'Provence' lavender (other varieties don't do well for me)
* Rosemary (I like the upright ones more than the trailing ones)

Randy

What would you do if you were to purchase a rose from a nursery that you consider reputable, and the nursery named it an older name, like La Biche. Would you use the nursery's name, or the authentic one.

*** I would use the authentic one.
I do, AAMOF.
Would you label your 'Double Delight' as 'Queen Elizabeth'?
Would you label your 'Fortuniana' as "Snowflake" because a flakey nursery in CA put that label on it?

My 'Mlle. de Sombreuil' came from ARE with a tag that said 'La Biche.'
It is correctly labelled 'Mlle. de Sombreuil.'

When we spoke down there, at ARE, we explained the mis-identification.
They sold every remaining plant of it within an hour.

It makes me itch all over, to see mis-labelled roses.
Really!
And if you label it 'La Biche,' knowing that it is NOT-LaBiche, what are you going to do if they bring back the REAL 'La Biche'?

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Sombreuil, Mlle de Sombreuil & La Biche.