That looks like a nice plan. What would concern me a bit is the use of honey locust in that spot. A deeper shade may be desired for the patio and also due to large surface roots, that may disrupt the pavers for the patio if applicable. You might swap out the placement with the river birch.

Isn't Sunburst provide more shade than the River Birch? So SunBirst are known for shallow roots?

Thanks!

Ron

What if I put the Sunburst in between the existing red maple and the front of the house? Will it be fine and will it look ok?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Ron

I congratulate you, and your wife, on a plan that looks to give you a very attractive back yard.

River birches can have surface roots as well, so it may not be a good substitute for the honey locust by the patio. I do think you will want a tree by the patio, to provide shade, but am not familiar enough with the honey locust to say if it will do. Putting it in front, and maybe putting the crabapple in that spot might work better, if its roots would be problematic. Or, you could swap out the crabapple and the honey locust, but put the honey locust further out in the lawn. OR, you can go through all the angst again, and pick another tree to go next to the patio... Won't that be fun? ;-) (NOT!!!)

If you leave the plan as it is, I might move the crabapple a little further away from the site of the future trells/arbor. As I recall the width for Prairie Fire, it gets fairly wide, up to 20' or more. The distances there aren't given, but it looks as though the distance from the tree to the edge of the trellis/arbor is only about 6-8 feet. Low branches on the crab may block the walkway into the arbor. If I am wrong, then ignore that bit.

The other thing I might do is move the lilac grouping a bit closer to the front of the house. As the birch grows, which they do fairly fast, the lilac closest to it will be more and more shaded in the afternoon. Moving the whole group more to the east would help with this. And by so doing, you may get a bit of shade at the corner of the patio, and maybe the windows at that corner of the house.

The only other "tweaking" I would do is to lay out hose, or use flour, to mark the lines of your planned beds, and then run your lawn mower along it to see if the turning radiuses are sufficient. (Just don't actually run over the hose with the blade turning!) An easily navigated, easy-turning mowing pattern will save you untold hours of being aggravated in the future. While all the indentations and nooks along the edge of the bed, as shown on your plan, look great, and would add to the appearance of the yard, sometimes practicality has to take precedence.

We decided not to put anything yet on the spot near the patio. We are thinking of getting a Northern Red Oak next year for that spot. I think, that's the tree that will give real shade. There is another one that my wife loves so much but we don't know what it is. It's all year round dark red or maroon, or burgundy. I really haven't scrutinize up close but looks like the leaf looks similar to maple. It's wide, ver dense leaves, and rounded too.

I have a question regarding our River Birch. Since I will be showing the video about SGR(Stem Girdling Root) to the person who will be installing it, I would like to know if River Birch has a flare. This way we can properly plant it.

I will be making a new drawing soon! :)

All trees have a root flare. All trees are more shallowly rooted than many folks realize.

Northern red oak-now that's a shade tree! Not too slow-growing either. The honey locust would do good service over to the the S. of the driveway somewhere. Filtered shade when in leaf, just right for warm summer mornings.

Good luck.........+oM

The honey locust would do good service over to the the S. of the driveway somewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong. When you said south of the driveway, did you mean close to the walkway that is leading towards my front door? It's the area were the existing serviceberry is.

Thanks!

The crabapple should be placed far enough from the patio to not make a mess.

Sounds like the tree that your wife loves is the Crimson King Norway Maple - Acer platanoides. It has dark purple leaves that give dense shade. It can grow to 50-90 feet, grows moderate to fast and is rounded in shape.
HTH
~ Gerry

And it is also a pest taking over the northeast.

That is good advice about the lawnmower. There are spots that I have to cut with the weed eater because the mower will not fit.

Let me ask you something v1rtuos1ty... how long have you lived in this house for? The reason I ask is because if you don't give it a couple of years to really figure out what your needs are you might wind up wishing you had done things differently as time goes on. For example, are there privacy concerns? What if neighbors move in and keep an untidy yard? And what if you discover that certain times of the year, the angle of the sun just beams down and scorches you. And what if you ever needed to get a truck into the backyard for some reason or another. Maybe to drop off a childrens playhouse or something. Is there space to do that?

As for honeylocusts, it seems like they are to the midwest what willow oaks are to GA. Overplanted. Honeylocusts are uncommon to find down here in cultivation despite being almost native. Likewise I'm sure willow oak is uncommon to find up there despite it being almost native to your area. Why not break the mold a little bit and plant something that you don't see every day. I'd never suggest a willow oak to someone down here but they do grow fairly fast for an oak, and cast a pretty deep shade even though it has very slim leaves. You might even get some fall color out of it up there.

hi quirkyquercus,

And it is also a pest taking over the northeast

What were you referring to with pest taking?

I have lived here for 9 months now. I have monitored the sun's movement and position from April to August of last year and have done it again this year. The sun position's in my drawing above are accurate. And also, we have used our experiences in the old house that we are correcting in the new house. So, from what my wife and I are seeing in the plan, it looks good to us. However, I'm learning from you folks the correct locations for the trees we've bought.

The plan drawing above does have a big spot for the childrens playhouse.

You guys are awesome! I'm very thankful that you are helping me so much. :)

Sounds like the tree that your wife loves is the Crimson King Norway Maple.

Yeah, looks like that's the one! Is it very hardy here in my area? Does it take full sun? Is it disease resistant?

Thanks

Quirky ~
I am simply answering a question as to what kind of tree that the poster's wife admired.
I do not like the large maples due to their invasive and greedy roots.
I also think they are over planted.
I had two Norway Maples (regular species)that I lost to the October Surprise Storm here in Buffalo. I was ELATED to lose them as I have replaced them with trees that are more unusual and w/o their particular problems.
~ Gerry

I was going to say.......
I figured you knew better

I have heard or read that they are affecting the sugar maple population in New England (NY?). When they reseed in the wild they regrow as green not red.

Ron, Norway maples as a species are aggressive reseeders, and have a root system such that, after a few years, not much grows under the tree, not even grass. They have been reseeding themselves freely in the woods in New England and out-competing with the native maples for growing space for saplings.

Mind you, most shade trees are hard on grass, although you can find some trees, and some grasses, that can co-exist. And, as the tree grows, you can limb it up to allow more light to get under it. A tree, like the honey locust and the birch, that casts a more dappled or filtered shade, is easier on grass.

Putting the honey locust in front - in the SE 'quadrant' - giving the serviceberry room to grow, would be a nice spot for the honey locust. If you buy a good pruning book - maybe ask on a separate posting for suggestions? - and keep the honey locust trimmed to a good frame and shape, you should have no trouble with it, and the color will be a nice welcome to your house.

I'm not a huge fan of red/purple-leaved trees - 'though I do have a 'Forest Pansy' redbud - but I can't think of too many large shade trees with red or purple leaves, other than purple beech, which grows s-l-o-w-l-y, and the 'Crimson King' Norway maple. The purple leaf plums abound, and you can get a moderate size on a red Japanese maple, one of the large, upright ones, but neither qualify, in my book, as a shade tree, for a yard. The JM could shade a patio, but might not do it quickly, and the plums could do for a patio, but are so trouble prone, I wouldn't do it. So, if you really, really want a large, red-leaf, shade tree, that may be it. As I said, I prefer a green-leafed tree, so would pick an oak, maple or other tree. But that's my opinion.

I have almost the exact same plot as you, and am trying to figure out what to do for shade later in the day. Do you have plans for late afternoon shade? Or are you not concerned with shading that part of the house (ie is it your garage there?) It is blazing hot from 2-7pm at least.

My concern is breaking up the look of the yard by planting trees in the middle, since I already have a focal interest of boulders and serviceberry in the NW corner, and a wooden fence on the North side.

Diane, Ron has dealt with the afternoon sun with his planting in the SW corner. That's the spot where you want to put your protection, as well as putting some to the the W of your house. Double-check his map, and the directional labels. Unless you have trees all across the S and W sides of the house, you can't really avoid all the afternoon sun. And unless you are already sited in the woods, it's hard to plant trees that will give enough protection, fast enough and on a reasonable budget, as well as doing all the other things you want and need to do, that go with moving into a new house, working, having a family, etc., etc., AND have a garden, yard, and all the other things that go with living in an urban/semi-urban area.

For Ron, the garage is in the NE corner, and his birch and other small trees/large shrubs are in the SW corner. He COULD plant something taller along the W property line, instead of the viburnums, but it seems as though he has plans for a play structure near there, and wants to give it plenty of room. The 2 trees near the patio are planned to give more afternoon shade to the house and patio. All in all, I think he has it pretty well covered.

Personally, I might put a tree closer to the house, in the middle of the lawn (because I don't care about lawns), but it would 'cut up' the yard and the space, so I can see why he hasn't. If you want to make "garden rooms" and make your yard look larger with the illusion that you have paths going off into an unknown destination, you can "break... up the look of the yard by planting trees in the middle", and have something planted beyond the tree(s), even more lawn or trees or flower beds. But, it's up to you what you want to do, how much effort you want to go to, and the look you are striving for. And if you have small kids, and want room for them to play in, then you need to do that for the next while.

Unless you are trying to put in a windbreak, you don't really need much in the way of trees to the N of most houses, except for looks. Or, unless you are talking about South of the Equator, in which case, you need the reverse of all I have said - but I don't THINK you are, since you are in the USA somewhere, in a zone 5.

hi dibbit,

I'm so very thankful for the wonderful advice you have been giving to me.

Yes, I want to have bigger area for the kids to play. Actually, in my other plan(in paper here), I have all the shrubs or flower beds mostly around the house and patio. I also haven't decided yet what small plants to put. The plan I have above is just phase 1. That's all I can afford right now. :)

So guys, here is the question. I think, I haven't asked this yet as I haven't seen any answer yet. Looks like the oak family of trees are really a good choice for shade. How far from should I create the hole from the marks that JULIE have put for the oak tree? Is 10 feet enough? Are oak's root devastating or invasive/aggressive?

Thanks again! ;)

V1rt, I was not suggesting you crowd the service berry with the honeylocust. Somewhere between that tree and the maple on the terrace, as you mentioned.

I'm not a huge fan of honeylocusts, not because of anything bad about them, but rather, there's just so many trees I like better. And in my area, I do believe they are over-planted. But.......they do serve a purpose. Tough, fast growing, and producing a light shade which won't shade out the lawn beneath them.

I really like the red oak idea, and that location will do much to mitigate the hot summer sun. Good luck. I think you're on the right track.

+oM

Thanks dibbit :) I am realizing I can't have what I want here...I'd like to transplant a nice woodland into my backyard oh say, this weekend...but I Do have kids and a house payment and those pesky food and gas bills, lol.

Every time I read another post, I fall into lust with another tree and find reasons why the previous one is invasive or 'horrible' in someone's eyes. I think I'm becoming a tree snob. When I ask my friends what they have planted in their yards, I bite my tongue when they say "4 beautiful pears" "I love my silver maple" or "this cute little thing called a sandcherry"...

I've come up with a few ideas and I'm gearing up my nerve to just go for it. My children are respectful and will arrange their playing around anything I plant. I'll have to go to Plan C to arrange for shade on the patio. I like the plan above and I know they'll be happy with it. I like the idea of dappled shade for a patio; that is exactly where I was going to place a Honey Locust in my yard. Can you give an idea of how far-reaching the roots will be? Is 6 feet away too close? Ten Feet? My mom has one in her yard that has been in place for 10 years and she does not have a problem with roots in her lawn. Hers has a very nice shape, but I am noticing there are a lot of them around with poor shape. Any advice on picking one at the nursery?

The sun position on the drawing does not seem to indicate a consideration of how the sun moves across the the sky as the seasons progress through the year.

In my area, the sun sets in the southwest in the spring and sets in the northwest in the hottest time of the year. In the Spring the sun rises in the Northeast and in the hottest time of the year it rises in the Southeast.

Is the sun's seasonal pattern different in zone 5 Northern IL; and if so, how is it different?

It's just how my eye sees the sun's movement everyday.

You know what, I have too look again tomorrow. I remember the other day, around 6:30am or 7:00am, I was standing at my driveway facing east. I see the sun staring directly at me but it was about 10 to 15 degrees to the left. It's because sun wasn't still high. Then, I also remember around 7:30pm today, the sun was at northwest, about 30 degrees to the right if I am facing west. But I really can tell that the sun around 1pm, 2pm and 3pm were a little somewhat at south to were I was standing. Here is a nicer explanation. I'm standing at the backyard and facing south. I look up and I can see the sun at about 70 degrees.

Well, I don't know how to answer your question.

Sun position is hard to visualize, if you aren't standing there looking at it. The thing to remember is that as the earth turns and the seasons change, the position of the sun as it rises and sets moves north and south of the true east and west, being at the furthest north on the summer solstice, and the furthest south at the winter solstice. For the equinoxes, it's about at true E and W.

The thing to remember is that the position of the sun, and the amount of sunlight, that a site gets at 2 PM in Mar. or Dec. is nothing like the position and amount of light on that site at that time on July 4. I have areas on the NW side of my house that get no sun in the winter, and afternoon sun in summer, which makes planting there interesting.

Mostly what people want to do when planting trees for shade, is to block the afternoon shade in summer, as that is the hottest. Blocking late morning, noon and very early afternoon shade is harder, because it's mostly straight down, under things. If you REALLY want to get technical, many utility companies have a program that will let you see how your house will be affected by the seasonal movement of the sun. I think there is one or more out in 'computerland' somewhere, but have no idea of how and where to find it.

So what my wife have been doing/designing is correct. Also, the degrees I mentioned above based from my previous monitoring of the sun position is accurate. That means, the best location to put the shade tree is to find out where the position of the is at at 3PM? 4PM? 5PM?

Folks, I'm sorry if I keep repeating this as I have not seen any answer yet. My wife and I have decided to put Northern Red Oak. It's final hopefully. How far in feet should the Red Oak root ball be away from the cable lines or whatever utility wire/pipe is under the ground? I want to make sure it's not going to damage it. :)

Thanks again folks!

What areas are shaded in the afternoon from 4pm to sundown?

Would your children like some cooling, dappled afternoon shade over their play equipment and area? An American Sycamore, if fed in such a way to promote good root and bark health with increasing tree's foliage, should make the sycamore tree a good choice. Especially if you prune it regularly to encourage it to develop a strong main leader trunk.

How far away from the play area that the tree is planted and at what angle away from the play area to plant the tree will be best determined by where the dappled shade is best needed.

The easiest way to determine such is, in the hottest months of the year, like July and August, to position a few stakes or fairly tall items around the outer edges of the play area and from 3pm to sundown, take note of which ones indicate a dappled shade tree planted there would provide the kind of shade that the area needs.

As far as the shading goes you should consider two factors.
One: how broad spreading is the canopy of the shade tree you choose to plant; two: and at what range will the shade cast under the canopy travel throughout the year's seasons?

According to the arch of the sun you have drawn, a sycamore tree planted just east of the comcast box should provide the desired shade now, But in July and August will that assessment still be true?

One other thing I am wondering is why no one else has mentioned any concern about the location of your riverbirch tree. Yes it should look nice for someone looking from your patio to see the riverbirch growing where you have drawn it. The concern I have though, is the sewer drain. In your photo you have something labeled a manhole, Is that in fact the access lid for your sewer drain? If so, I am not so sure a water hungry shallow rooted tree like a riverbirch is such a good idea to plant so near your sewerline. At first the riverbirch should not cause any obvious problems, but years down the road as the sewer line ages and the tree matures with wide spreading roots, I am wondering if those roots will seek even the slightest hairline cracks which might form in the pipe joints and over more time, cause those cracks to open wider.

When describing how to feed the Sycamore tree, I meant to say without increasing the leaves.

Focus on making the tree's roots and bark strong and healthy, but do not feed with high nitrogen ratios and other such elements which could encourage the tree to produce more leaves than what is good for the tree's overall health.

katrina, that is awesome! About the position of the sun, I have pictures last year of my house around 5pm to 8 pm from june to late August. Yes, the position of the sun always sets at the same spot but a little more to the north.

I will look at the pictures again tonight to check the sun positions.

About Sycamore, I heard that they are prone to disease. I also don't like them because I remember someone that in order for you to appreciate the beauty of it, you should look at it half a mile away. I did google it and saw pictures of it. The body is massive. Hehehe. I don't like those kind of trees.

So for the River Birch, where is your recommendation? Yes, the manhole I was referring to is a thick circle metal with holes. I think it can be lifted too.

Thanks folks, I only have 2 more days left to redesign my plan. They're bringing in the trees on Saturday.

Again, you folks are awesome!

V1rt, I envision your home being a newer one. Is this correct? If so, your sewer lines, which are the ones to be concerned with as far as roots growing into them, would likely be the newer pvc. These lines are near-impervious. I'd not be worried at all about roots getting into them.

+oM

I think, but am not certain, that the manhole cover would be for a storm drain, and not for water or sewage lines. I rather think those would be run in front, along the street, along with power and phone, so that any needed work could be done without having to go into people's back yards. I may be wrong, but I imagine that these would be more likely to need repairs than storm drains, so would be placed where they were accessible, since most of the time, they seem to use back-hoes and not shovels to dig them up. In any case, since it's are new, whether storm drain or sewer, I don't think you need to worry too much about tree roots getting into them.

Ron, I am a little confused about where the oak tree is going, and why you are mentioning utility wires in connection with it. Where do the wires run - I assume underground? There have been so many subjects covered so far, and I am not clear if the oak is replacing the honey locust or going on the W boundary. My experience with oaks and their roots next to buildings, etc. is more limited than mine with maples, but I think it won't be a problem next to the patio if you plant it out from the patio about 8-10', which I think is about what you had allowed for the HL. If you are worried, then allow another 3' or so.

If you are thinking of near the Comcast box, I wouldn't plant any tree within 30' of it, just because if it ever has to be dug up, the disruption to the roots of the tree will be extreme, and it won't like it. At 30' or better, any digging would affect less of the tree roots. An oak tree can get pretty wide - after a good few years, I grant - and the roots will be wider than the branches. Planting perennials, annuals or shrubs near it would be much less disruptive to them if they had to be dug up. Much less impact on your pocketbook, too. This distance should probably apply to wherever the utilities lines run, also. Do they start at the Comcast box and run straight to the house? If they do, then the proposed site of the crabapple might affect them, and may need to be moved. Since crabs will live shorter lives than oaks, if it is affected by digging around its roots, the loss of it would be much less than the loss of a good-sized oak.

Hope this makes things a bit clearer.

wisconsitom,

You are correct. It's a newly built house. New community too. I do remember seeing last year a 6" pvc protruding from ground in front of our house. They were 2 of them.

dibbit,

Looks like you are right about the manhole. I remember someone from the builder mentioned storm drain. I can verify it tomorrow.

Below is a drawing of what my memory recalls. I'm positive that the line I drew looks like the one in my lawn. The spray painted lines are colors red and orange at the back and in front of the house, the color is blue. Also at the back, there are 4 flags, 2 red and 2 orange.

Thanks again!

If the Storm drains are made of PVC, it should be true what +oM says about them being safe even with water hungry riverbirch trees.

The aspects you mentioned about the Sycamore, is why I specified that any you might plant should be pruned trained to maintain it as a strong main leader tree; and also fed to support healthy roots and bark without trying to cause the tree to produce an over abundance of leaves. The canopy of any large tree you choose to plant will also need to be pruned up high enough for any planned future activity clearance.

One thing about the Oak consideration for near your patio is that depending on which cultivar of oak you plant, they also can get large like a sycamore that is properly pruned. The Oak if planted closer than 30 feet from your patio, could drop acorns on your patio if you happen to get a female tree.

If you have the trees coming in on Saturday, and as along as you are not going to be digging too near the marked underground lines, it will be helpful to dig those holes prior to when the trees are scheduled to come.

As far as what you will need to plant to help cool down the July and August afternoon heat-up, it may take the next 9 months before it dawns on you as to where you need to plant whatever large shade tree you find best meets your space and upkeep needs. At least you already have the future trellis, and the crab apple tree to help provide some of such needed afternoon shade for your patio area. I still think that the children's play equipment and area will be much more comfortable for them to use if the area is over shadowed by a dappled light type of shade tree planted in the right spot to accomplish that.

If the Sun does set farther north in the months of July and August, after living in the house for a while you should be able to easily identify what is the best postion to plant such a tree, and also which does not cause future problems when work needs to be done on the comcast box,

v1rt,

I like your original plan just the way it was. I do like the honeylocust and I don't care if they're "overplanted." The Sunburst variety should be beautiful by a patio and, as long as the tree is healthy, the dappled shade should be just right.
If anything, based on your original drawing, I would move both the honeylocust and crabapple a few feet to the northwest ...but you can see and 'feel' the property, so you know best.
I don't think you need it, but if you're also thinking of a large oak, I would put it in the northwest corner of the lot. I think 15 feet is enough from the Comcast box.
Good luck and enjoy your new trees.

It looks as though you, or whoever drew the plan, mostly followed/paralleled the track of the Comcast, and maybe phone lines, (are the electric wires in front, or is it also in the back? If in front, does it run along the driveway into the garage?) as you decided where your SW bed was going to go - very clever. It would seem as though the planned spot for the oak (which I assume is replacing the HL next to the patio, since you didn't say) will be far enough from the lines not to have a problem.

One thing you might definitely do, ASAP, is call both the power, phone and Comcast people and have someone come and mark where the lines run, unless the marks are still visible. That way, your memory maybe being off by a foot or three, there will be no nasty surprises. They'll do it for free - it's usually a "call-before-you-dig program", or some such name - since it saves mightily on their repair time!

Digging the holes ahead of delivery is not a bad idea, although the crew coming to plant may have to do more work on them. YOu don't have to do it, esp. if you are paying for the job and not for the hour. If all they are doing is delivering, then having the holes, and having them deliver the trees next to the holes would be good.

It wouldn't hurt, if the man (or woman) power is available, to place the plants in their planned spots, and take a few minutes to look at them from several angles, including inside and upstairs. You may see some minor tweaking that you can do, even at that stage. It's a LOT easier to re-dig a hole than to try to move a tree, or to kick yourself for the next umpty-ump years about how that tree would have been better over there, just a bit.

A future tree near the play area/structure is an excellent idea. I am not sure a Sycamore is the best bet, as they can get very large, can be messy, and, if a friend's experience is common, can cause allergies in some people. If you do decide you want to put a tree there, start another thread, as this one is covering enough topics, and confusing readers enough, already!

By the way folks, I'm wrong at the sun's position at noon in the drawing. It's is almost directly above me, maybe 5 degrees down to south, very little. :) It's a perfect day today since it's sunny and that I will be able to monitor sun's position at 2pm, 3pm, 4pm and so on today and plus the pictures I have for June/July and August. This would help a lot in properly positioning it.

One thing you might definitely do, ASAP, is call both the power, phone and Comcast people and have someone come and mark where the lines run, unless the marks are still visible

Yes, the lines are still very visible. Just an FYI, the red/orange lines parallel to west border line where the comcast box isn't there. They didn't mark it. It ends on the flag. But still, it's obvious that there should be a cable there which I will take note of.

It wouldn't hurt, if the man (or woman) power is available, to place the plants in their planned spots, and take a few minutes to look at them from several angles, including inside and upstairs.

That's a really cool idea. Will do.

but if you're also thinking of a large oak, I would put it in the northwest corner of the lot. I think 15 feet is enough from the Comcast box.

Yes, we are thinking the same way. I am pretty sure that with that location for the big tree, it will bring good afternoon shade. The northwest quadrant is free from any cables, pipes or wires which is really good!

I will do more measurements to really make sure I'm not going to trouble anything down the road.

As promised, here are the pictures of the shadow casted by sun.

http://www.hideitsafely.com/sunposition.htm

First two photos of casted shadow are very good. By using that method along with considering the width of canopy each item presents; you are equipped' at this time of year, to know how planting your trees in their spots will affect the heating and cooling of comfort areas on your lot.

Like I said, that is good for this time of year. Of course the real need for such information will be in June through August when summer heating really kicks in gear. That is why I suggested waiting that long this year, before choosing where to plant your shade tree over the children's play area.

As far as the type of tree, which you want goes; what about researching details on using a scarlet oak there? If that is the tree you choose, then realize that after about 6 years or so its lower branches may need to be pruned up for mowing the area, and for the children to play under. It may take 10 years, depending on how mature of a tree you plant before you see much acorn production and drop from the tree.

At least my Scarlet seems to drop far fewer acorns than my Shumard trees, which are planted on the west side of my house.

Most shade trees which go dormant in the winter, will survive better if you plant the one you select in the late fall just as it begins to go dormant. Planting a shade tree then or at least selecting and reserving your shade tree then is best. That way you can be more sure to check the tree you want to choose for fall by not only the structure of the young tree, but also by the leaf color change potential that each tree specifically presents. Lots of nurseries will even hold the tree you choose in the fall for you to pick-up and plant or for them to deliver and plant, just after the following winter ends, and when the tree is just about to break its dormancy.

Hi Katrina,

Thanks for recommending trees. It's really good since I really know nothing about tree names. I looked at google and Scarlet Oak tree looks good. In what features does it differ from Northern Red Oak? I noticed that Northern Red Oak is more hardy than the Scarlet and likewise a fast grower too.

And Yes, I will follow your advice regarding fall planting.

Thanks,

Ron

If you can save up the money for the cost of having a 15-20 foot tall white oak tree transplanted for the shade tree, it would really, really be nice.

their structure is simply stunning.

Only thing is that with the expense it will cost, you had certainly better make certain you pick the one with the lower branch structure and the exact fall coloring you want. Also, the white oak is so transplant temperamental that it is most important to not transplant them until they have gone dormant in the late fall or earliest of winter prior to the ground freezing. Also make certain that the tree will be dug with no smaller than at an 8 foot or wider rootball.

Of course, not many would want to hide such an expensive and beautiful tree in their back yard. At least I do not think I could justify that, but it is fun to imagine.

hi katrina,

doesn't Northern Red Oak have a stunning structure too? And also, when you said, structure is stunning, can you describe it more please?

Here is an update folks. The drawing above is becoming a reality. Please see 2 pics below. This morning, I have planted 2 lilacs and last night, a crabapple prairie fire on my right which is not seen on picture. And also, I followed your advice by looking at the window and second floor. I noticed that the first position I had for the lilac didn't look well but not really bad. So, I had to reposition them. My wife and I like the new positions.

{{gwi:352485}}

{{gwi:352486}}