I remember the evolution of the U-shaped layout and there are things I like about it, but the one thing I really don't' like about it is the hemmed in range with very minimal space on either side. Some folks would be fine with that, but I don't think I could enjoy that kitchen. I have had islands with limited space beside the cooktop and didn't like that even when the area was more open.

The tradeoff with the island version is that the minimal counter space flips over to the sink area. Some folks would be fine with that. It would be a challenge in our house, but I wouldn't be upset if the guys finally learned to put their stuff in the DW instead of leaving it at the sink. I do like the fact that people don't have to walk through the kitchen and past the range to get between the two eating areas. It is less likely to bottleneck if you entertain much.

The pantry/bench seat idea has some possibilities too. I like that it has counter space between the sink and range so neither is lacking as much -- and the open island can serve well for prepping, baking, serving, crafts, homework and projects -- really anything. If your appliance budget and needs would allow you to consider a Subzero 27" or a 24" Thermador fridge in the kitchen and a freezer in place of one of those pantries, then add something like a 12" pantry pullout next to the fridge for the most often used items and have a second pantry next to the window seat for seasonal storage and things less likely to result in multiple trips to and from the kitchen. That would be a great place for some of your bulkier pantry items -- including cereal that is likely to go to the table and not the cooking areas. It does add some to the budget.

Koala, you are funny! Nice to dream though!

Mindstorm, yeah I don't mind moving doors (DH does though!)but I couln't move the laundry door because it's basically a hallway with a closet on one side and the garage on the other. Trying to stay on a budget here!

Island with a tiny additional thought. If you're going to move the door anyway... Here's a sketch of another door location. It won't work if you use the dining room a lot.

{{gwi:1895187}}

Unless you make the LR the DR and the DR the office, which could be closed off with some French doors. There would also be room for a bar, buffet, sitting area or butler's pantry where it meets the FR.

Since I have no training in these matters, I humbly offer this idea.

Maybe the U-Plan would work if you added a doorway from the FR to the LR. Right where the bar with the stools dies into the wall that runs between the FR and LR. It would create more movement between the LR and FR, as well as offer another path to the DR. Also I think it might be more comfortable sitting at the RH side of the bar with an opening to my right vs a wall.

if you are thinking about bmorepanic's plan (which goes a long way to solving the traffic flow issues, for sure!!).... I have a question. Do you use the LR for entertaining or is it really pretty much just your office? because in that case it would make sense to shift your office/den to the current DR area, and the DR to the current LR. It seems a much better use of the spaces available. People can flow much more naturally between the couch area and the dining table, and come and go from the DR to the kitchen without getting in your way. You could be working in the kitchen on last-minute cooking while others are going back and forth setting the table and bringing food out to the DR... without interrupting you. I REALLY like that.

Also, I think if you remove the pocket door from one of your kitchen walls, you can probably make a good layout with your 3 biggies (range/ref/sink) all on the walls, and then have a lovely clean island that's only storage, work space, and seating/gathering space. That would be most appealing to me!!

But that only works if you don't need the big formal LR for entertaining, holidays, etc.

I like Bmorepanics idea, however I agree that it would only work if the LR was the DR. But the LR is way too big for the DR I think. My table would look silly because it is small. I like the idea of getting better use of the space though because it is basically only used for my office/work out space, and it's only really busy at Christmas- becasue that is where we put the tree.

LOL, Spincrazy, are you getting enough opinions here?

I just want to respond to the person who asked in what household that u-shaped plan could ever work...mine! It works fine, and if anything, it's tighter than Spincrazy's version.

In 15 years, with 3 kids and their friends running around, we've never had any kind of incident w/ traffic in the way of the stove or with moving a big pot of boiling water over to the sink. My real problem is little landing space next to the stove, but she has some on both sides.

Spincrazy has already said that her dining room is rarely used, and now we see that interlopers could be shooed out to go around thru the LR if need be. So I don't think that's a problem. As for counter space, I think the U gives the best of the two plans originally provided, though I'm a big fan of empty islands and would be happy w/ the Wed. 16?06 plan myself. Or the U. Neighbors of mine who have the same U-plan as me but w/out that little peninsula (where Spincrazy has her bookcase) envy me my peninsula. It is modest space by GW kitchen standards, but it is my best workspace (and Spin's is slated to be larger than mine).

Spin, you've got a couple of great options here -- and we've probably truly made you spincrazy!

OK, well now we're suggesting you totally redesign your first floor... but what about putting the office in the DR, making the LR into the DR, and either using lascatx's suggestion above (adding a buffet or sitting area to the extra space in the new DR) ----OR---- either moving the wall (currently between family room and LR) back so that the new DR is a normal size, and the family room is bigger (room for the tree!) or even removing the wall altogether if you want more of an open plan?

Sorry this is not what you asked, however, when I was having a really hard time with my kitchen layout, some here suggested things like this and it really helped me!

So- just thought I would throw it out. It seems like it would make your spaces a lot more useful for the way you use your home....

Wow- can't say I'm short on options! Sad to say though, it's just not in the budget to redesign everything. But it sure would be fun!

Our DR isn't used often either but personally I'd hate to have to walk through the LR to get food to the table and return the same way with dirty plates and left-overs. I would think that would be a negative when you go to sell. At least, it would be a negative for me, especially because a fix wouldn't be easy or cheap.

However, I like the idea of swapping the DR and LR. A dedicated home office is quite attractive to buyers and it could be a bigger plus than a formal DR (I think it depends on where you live). Add a pair of pretty French doors that can be shut when needed (think about how much more quiet it would be) and you will have created an ideal spot for working or working out.

You wrote that you think the LR is too big to be a DR, but what if (warning, pie in the sky thinking ahead), you were able to move or remove the wall between ex-LR/now DR and FR sometime in the future? You could size the new DR to fit your needs and enlarge your FR to give you needed seating space. Why not gain space where you most need it and would use regularly?

Like I wrote, it's pie in the sky thinking and of course money is no object ;-) but I've found that sometimes dreaming the impossible leads to creative, doable solutions.

Another idea that is not quite as intrusive as the above is to remove the short wall to the right of the pantry in the kitchen and the DR (in bmorepanic's plan). Then it's just a matter of walking around the pantry to get to the DR instead of walking through the LR to get to the DR. Or move the pantry to the breakfast nook so that you'd have a handy landing spot next to the refrigerator for dishes and food on its way to and from the DR. I'm guessing that's not a load bearing wall since you wrote that a ceiling beam where you current kitchen wall is would be decorative not structural.

staceyneil had the same idea I did but beat me to the punch.

I hear you, spincrazy, that you're constrained by a budget. As a friend likes to say, "It's such a hardship to not be independently wealthy." ;-) That said, is there a possibility in the future to do any of the crazy ideas thrown out? Or is this a one shot, this is all we can do and that's that?

I really like bmorepanic's plan with closing off that door completely. Move your office into the rarely used DR. It's a very nice secluded spot in the house for it. Put the DR furniture where the office was. Short walk from the kitchen. DR furniture is usually attractive and is a nice view when guests come in the front entry.

if you're constrained by budget, then lascatx's idea of a small sitting area or a buffet area would be less costly then moving walls.

my other thought was to keep an opening to the DR, like you have in the island plan(but turn it into the office)and add an opening like Bmore's to the LR(new DR). In the space directly to the right of the new LR opening, you could build a lovely long narrow walk in pantry. Hopefully the cost wouldn't be too high as it would only be framing and drywall. That could take up some of the "extra" space that you're concerned with.

whatever you do, i think it would be nice to have the current LR space opened up to the family room and kitchen.

On a side note.....I know this process can be overwhelming and there really are a zillion options, but it's all worth it in the end. I've been at this design process for 2 years and am finally placing my cabinet order. I had to see every possible option before I could decide. Honestly, I could have gone with a number of plans, so you just have to decide what will be best for you. Good luck!

A lot of the ideas being tossed around either are not big ticket items. Flipping use of the DR and FR office, for example, is mainly moving furniture and French doors could be added later. Making use of the additional space in the LR could be something you take your time to decide whether that becomes a parlor off the DR, part of the FR, a butler's pantry, an expanded buffet for serving and storing, etc. Moving doorways isn't generally a big deal unless you start monkeying with load bearing walls, and even then a normal doorway may just mean a heavier header across the top. Get a contractor to take a look at it. One of the best things we did with our remodel almost didn't happen because we thought it would cost too much. I asked as a what-if while meeting with a contractor after we thought we'd decided not to do it. Now we are very glad we did.

The only thing I will tell you for sure is you are better moving everything around on paper until you are sure you've explored all your possibilities and come up with what works best for your needs.

Not that you asked, but I want to add my voice to the flipping crowd. Flipping the LR (office) and DR, that is. Eliminating that pocket door in the kitchen and going with Bmore's doorway into the new DR (X-LR) from the left side of the FR.

Re. the over-sized-ness of the new DR, there is no such thing! It's amazing how much space you can free up elsewhere by using parts of your DR, as long as you put unsightly stuff behind doors or screens or whatever. As an example, our DR houses a small computer armoire in one corner, a lovely antique Chinese cabinet full of office supplies in another corner, a china cabinet in the third, and a woodstove in the fourth. Alternatively you could line the walls with bookshelves or eventually section off part of it as a butler's pantry or bar, as others have suggested. None of this has to happen all at once, let alone now. When you feel the need and/or get inspired and can afford it. A beautiful curtain can even take the place of a french door (between DR and office) in the short term.

With all that said, I am still partial to the U (I can hear the screams from mindstorm and others), even if it means you have to walk around that peninsula to get to the dining room. Here are my thoughts on that: you will be using the DR only when you have guests, right? Guests are great for carrying platters and such from the kitchen into the dining room. You can set them out on the bar of that peninsula and off they go, like magic! (I've seen this a lot at freinds' houses.) Then back they come at the end of the meal, landing on that same bar, while you (or some exceptionally helpful guest) stand at the sink and just reach and wash. Of course, you will inevitably run a few circles around that peninsula during serving/clearing time, but in my case that would amount to about ten minutes out of every week at the most. Well worth the delineation it gives you between FR and kitchen.

Not that you asked!

I totally agree with lascatx.

I'd recommend drawing all your options out, including placing the furniture you have in the drawings... and look at how people would walk around, use the spaces.

We ended up doing something similar (re-arranging rooms) and we're so happy with the improvement in our daily use of the spaces. It ended up costing us a little more than we would have spent if we'd done just the kitchen, but FOR US it was the difference between spending gobs of cash on a kitchen that wasn't quite right, and spending just a little more for something that feels almost perfect.

A lot of the ideas were already discussed & discarded in previous threads, perhaps it would help if they were linked here...

My date with the cabinet guy
Meeting cabinet guy tomorrow...and had last minute idea!
Reality Check...what would you do?
Sad to say- still no decision
Is this layout worth the extra $$$?

Personally, I prefer the "U" (no surprise there!) The 3-D view reinforces my preference b/c I think the "U" is more striking than the island. The island looks like everyone else's kitchen, while your "U" looks different (in a very good way) but still very open and spacious. It also provides a better definition of living spaces w/o taking away from the openness.

One-person kitchen? Definitely not! There are at least 4 areas for 4 different people to work...not counting the seating area on the FR side! I have a "U" very similar to this and I fit 16 12-yo girls + 4 adults in mine...the girls were all cooking/baking and the adults were supervising! [They made a Mexican 3-course dinner for their GS Cooking badge.] I'd post a picture, but I'm not comfortable posting pics of people on a public forum, especially children. To be honest, even I was amazed at how well my kitchen worked w/all those girls cooking/baking at the same time!

The main difference b/w our kitchens is that the location of the range & sink are switched...granted that is a big difference as far as protecting the cooking area from traffic. However, the path b/w the DR & FR (cuts straight across the length of the kitchen) is a main thoroughfare in our house....it's the only way to the LR, DR, & Office b/c the other way is blocked w/a dog kennel. And, we use our DR for all our meals (no other eating area other than the 2 seats at one of the peninsulas. So, the protection was much more important in our case.

Critique:

"U"
* Cooking zone not protected...but, as mentioned in an earlier thread, the DR is rarely used so cross-traffic will be minimal.
* No trash pullout (I think). To remedy that, I recommend a 33" super/lazy susan in that corner instead of a 36". Put the 9" side on the sink side & increase that 9" cabinet next to the sink to a 12" and put in a trash pullout. It would be convenient to both prepping & cleaning up....the two zones that use it the most.
* I'd like a little more workspace around the range, but 21" is pretty good...if you could get 3" more on each side, it would be better, but all in all it's not too bad.
* Separate "big project area" and visiting zone
* Dish storage is OK
* Prep areas are very close to a water source (and still leaving room for someone cleaning up!)
* View while prepping on peninsula is to FR & Breakfast Nook; other prep zone is against a wall

Island (1st Post):
* DW & range are in conflict...the DW opens into the legs of anyone working at the range
* Prep zone is far from water source
* Prep zone is far from trash pullout. Prepping uses the trash much more than cleaning up and over a longer work period. The current location is a hike b/w the prep zone & trash...a longer hike than I have and my biggest regret in my kitchen is how far away the trash is from the prep zone. You could switch the DW w/the trash pullout, but then the DW will block the refrigerator...but it might be better than the current arrangement. (The refrigerator isn't open for very long, but it might be opened several times...)
* Too small a workspace around the sink (would not allow much prepping there b/c of this)
* Big project area is quite close to the sink. If you plan to do anything that shouldn't get wet, be sure it's not too close to the sink!
* Good size overhang, though, to protect visitors from splashing.
* Dish storage location is OK w/the current DW location (wouldn't work if it was switched, though)
* View while prepping is the wall. The island really doesn't have much usable prep space. The opposite side of the sink on the island puts the island b/w it and the refrigerator, range, and sink. You could prep from the "top" side in the layout, but I suspect w/so little room on the 18" side of the sink that the DW side of the sink will become the primary work area for cleaning up...so prepping won't be easy on that side (the island is still a barrier b/w the refrigerator/range & that prep area, though.)
* Prep zone is next to range...a plus (but, far from water & trash)

If you went w/BmorePanic's island layout, I'd move the sink & DW to one of the walls as well (as someone else also mentioned, I think). However, if you leave the DR where it is, then this plan will be a pain. My mother has a similar layout of Kitchen/LR/DR--no door b/w kitchen & DR, just a pass through. It's a pain to have to go down the hall & through the LR to get to the DR. She does have a kitchen table in the middle of the kitchen, so needless to say the DR is hardly ever used...right now it has her treadmill & plant shelving (w/lights). The pass through helps to stage food, but it's still a pain to use....I grew up in this house!

Just read Viva99's post...I agree w/everything she said!!!

Every kitchen has some compromises...decide which ones you and your family can live with and go with what will work.

(BTW...I heartily agree w/Plllog's assessment of architects...we've seen some nice-looking but very dysfunctional layouts here from architects! They're specialty is NOT functionality...it's form...and to most of them, form is much more important than functionality! I hope I haven't offended you, but I hope you know that I have your best interests at heart for a truly functional kitchen that you'll love to work and play in!)

Oops! Sorry, BmorePanic...you did add a door...it does make it easier to use!

I really like the U plan--for many of the reason buehl pointed out. When looking at the 3D drawings I liked the defined space of the U kitchen. The island kitchen, too me, looks like a small kitchen space stuck into the end of the room, much like a studio apt. The U shaped kitchen looks more like a real space. I like the continuity of the U. I originally wanted no corner cabinets in my kitchen but caved. Now I don't know what I would do without our 2 super susans--they store all the stuff I didn't think about (some stuff I intentionally avoided thinking about hoping it would somehow resolve itself when loading the new kitchen.)

With the openness of the kitchen there should be no need for any non-cooks (or none cleaner-uppers) to wander around the kitchen as shown in the photo posted above.

Make your decisions based on the way you will use your kitchen 90% of the time---not for the less frequent uses.

I vote for the 'U'.....you would have more working counter space. Sometimes architects are good at drawing pictures, but not so good when it comes to using them. Don't let him talk you out of something that YOU like.

Ha Buehl- seeing all my old posts lined up like that is only slightly embarrassing. This has been quite the experience. Thank you for the analysis. That was actually what I was hoping for in the beginning- seeing how all the components break down.

Question- I was planning on putting trash/recycling in the back prep area of the U, in that 24" section. Actually I don't know if they do a 24" pullout. I guess I could do 18" pullout with a 6" something, or 12" cab and 12" trash and figure something out for recycling. Thoughts? I am currently looking at Medallion Silverline and I don't think it has the 33 corner.

Regarding the dish storage on the back wall, would it be best to keep it as shown, or do a corner wall cab for better accessibility? I don't think the diagonal type would look right, but I don't know if the square type is too functional.

I am interested in bmorepanic's plan simply to improve the flow in this place. But I honestly don't know how long we'll be here. I know we don't want to stay here, but I have a feeling we'll be here for a while. That being said, I don't know if I should really mess with re-arranging all the public areas. Thoughts?

I didn't mean to embarrass you! You should have seen all my posts when I was at your stage....I think most of us that find the Forum in time end up w/several design threads, several appliance threads, several "help" and question threads during install, a few more for paint/decoration, and then the "at last...it's done" thread!

Trash Pullout: They definitely do make 24" trash pullouts...I think you might even be able to get a "recycling center" in a cabinet that wide (3 bins, I think). It's a great spot! Most convenient to the prep zone and still accessible to the cleanup & cooking zones.

Corner Upper Cabinet: For the dish storage, I think in this case what you have is probably best. The diagonal would probably work OK b/c of the limited wall length on the sink side, but if you don't like it then I would leave it as-is.

Remodeling LR/DR/etc.: Why don't you think about it, maybe come up w/a design, and get 2 or 3 estimates. That may help you decide. On the up side, those rooms don't have a lot of expensive fixtures like a kitchen or bathroom. Keep in mind, though, that whatever room is in the "middle" will be visible from the front door, so design accordingly.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rev-A-Shelf recycling center

'tis true, viva99 ... I do want to scream! ... and then throw myself across spincrazy's doorway when the demolition crew comes to put in the "U" kitchen, screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo.........!" ;-)

The "U" plan is shades of my old kitchen. Pre-remodel. Stove with 18" on either side of it - inconvenient to say the least. Stove across from sink with doorway into kitchen - inconvenient and dangerous. Never had an incident it is true, but still, hardly a good configuration. Buehl's assessments are fine on paper - it is very easy to put an oval around an area and call it a "cooking zone" but when that cooking zone has 21" to either side AND walls beyond those, ... well, I'm sorry but that is simply NOT a cooking zone anyone would want to cook in. I know this from experience (well, experience with 18" anyhow).

Fact is that of course, it would work. Like others here, we've all worked in dodgy spaces and not been the worse for wear. But my point is that it seems like a capital waste of time, energy and money to invest only to come out with that frightful "U" plan - I'm sorry to belabour that point but I lived in something quite like it and I can only pity the poor souls who would have to deal with that. And wonder at the ninny's who put mine in! ;-)

I particularly like the second island plan and while I really like bmorepanic's kitchen layout, the DR access would be a bit of a nuisance if the other spaces couldn't be reconfigured.

Anyhow, carry on. Not my house and I really hope that spincrazy likes the plan she does put in.

Mindstorm, the image of you throwing yourself across my doorway really had me laughing. Thanks! I needed that! You want to hear something scary- in my existing layout I have the same "cook zone" as the U, just on the opposite side. The scary part is that I only have 15" on either side of the stove! So, 21" seems down right luxurious! But you're right, it's not ideal having to cross over to the other side with boiling water, etc.

If you could eliminate the pantry & put in a prep sink...

Mindstorm...did you also do most of your prep in the 18" on each side of the range? Even 21" would be too little if prep is done there as well. But, if prep is done elsewhere, I think the 21" is OK...no, not ideal, but I think it's disadvantage is outweighed by the other advantages.

Truthfully, if the peninsula legs were switched to the other side (similar to what she has now), it would work better; but (1) the refrigerator was an issue and (2) she doesn't like walking around the peninsula to get to the kitchen w/groceries....so the legs got moved.

No layout is perfect unless you have unlimited funds and space....

But, I went from an "L" w/a table to a "U" like SpinCrazy's plan and I love my layout! It works great! But, I don't have a pantry cabinet, or refrigerator on the range wall to "box" it in...maybe that's one reason mine works better...

What about something like this?

...no pantry.

Here's yet another crazy idea. What if you were to push back the kitchen into the DR eliminating that wall. You have a large kitchen into which you could incorporate an office space. Just want to know what you think of this before we go ahead and throw more layout options at you!

buehl - if she does that last layout she can have the pantry in the "nook" area - like in the June 10 16:06 island plan (the two pantries with the bench in-between).

I grew up in a kitchen with 24"x30" over the dishwasher by the sink. This is the prep area. There's about 21" to the left of the cooktop. That's the mixer area. There's a shallow counter across the passage, about 6' wide, which is the landing area. My mother always wished there was more counter space. I never knew anything different so never minded. My just demo'd kitchen had tons and tons of counter space, and I rarely used much of it.

Which is a long way of saying that I think there's enough counter space in any of the plans. In the first island plan, however, too much of the counter space is in that dark corner. In the U plan, the corner is much more open and less of an essential work space. In the second island plan, the dark corner isn't as bad because it's now in the passage, but it's still pretty obnoxious. The island in this plan is useful as work space, however, because the water and heat are on the L, I think I'd be working cramped in that dark corner anyway. Someone else said that, I think.

I think the U plan is much more functional than the old kitchen. For all the reasons that others, especially Buehl, have given, the work zones in the U, um, work.

Bmorepanic's plan flows nicely if the DR is an office, but it would be lousy when you go to sell and want it to be a dining room again. I wouldn't do it. Having that room with only one entrance messes up the flow of the house. On that same thought, I wouldn't get rid of the pocket door. If you want to put the office in the current dining room, you could put something movable in front of the pocket door, like a sturdy serving cart, or a freestanding pantry cabinet. That's something that's useful, but doesn't permanently screw up the floor plan.

I would leave the door however. I like that there's flow, though restricted flow, through the kitchen into the current dining room. It's great to have a cook's access. If you were using your formal rooms as formal rooms this would work.

On the other hand, it might be great to have Bmorepanic's door between the family room and living room as well. I think that improves the flow of the house, and it also makes an easy way for your casual guests who are chatting with you at the peninsula to get into the dining room, whether it's the current LR or the current DR. That way they don't have to go around through the entry, or through the kitchen. If you keep your office in the LR, you can put up a decorative screen or something to channel people into the DR and separate them from the work area. Plus, if you put in that door, you'll be able to see the Christmas tree from the kitchen and family room.

Mindstorm -- I love your passion! And I bow to your experience. But please help me understand: are you preferring the island plans because 1) they offer Spincrazy that corner next to the range as a prep area (Which Buehl just added in her latest plan), and 2) they eliminate the proximity of the cooking area (and crossing to sink) to any traffic flow to the DR through that pocket door?

Because it seems as though the traffic to the DR problem would be largely solved by the door between FR and the current LR that Bmore suggested. As for using that corner to prep according to the island plan, I know it would really bug me to have my backside facing the entire public space while I'm working, not to mention facing a corner, like a kid being punished in the old days, as someone else said. And prepping at the island would feel way too out of the cooking loop for me to get into the habit of using it. I would do it only when guests were around, and it would feel awkward and unaccustomed.

If more counter space near the cooktop is needed, I really like Buehl's idea of eliminating the corner pantry, and plllog's idea of putting some kind of chopping block/ cart where the pocket door is (assuming the DR moves to the LR, at least temporarily. That butcher block could be an extension of the counter space next to the stove, if that were needed.

If I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time), please clue me in. As someone who is about to commit to a U, I am eager for your thoughts, and I'm sure Spincrazy is too.

Spincrazy, have you done this yet?

"Print out the layout, tape it somewhere you pass by a lot (like on the fridge, and live with it up there for a few days without actively analyzing it. Then, see what your subconscious says."

It's paraphrased from wherever I read it. The idea is that if the drawings are up on the wall and you go by them without actively thinking/analyzing them, then your subconscious has a chance to work with it. And it might come back saying "yeah, that one is fine, I can live with that."

I've so heavily left-brained, analytical that I have to remind myself to take this step.

I have had several plans now that people said would be good if I had a prep sink. My kitchen area is only 11x11. Isn't that a bit overkill in such a small area?

Buehl- I kind of like your new plan. I actually could get a pantry in there- where you show the 24" wall cab. DH really wants the panty in the main area. He said walking to the breakfast nook is too far.

I think the island looks better- but you'll be loosing much needed counter space and cabinet space.
If you are doing a kitchen remodel, you should check out www.bearcreekbronze.com - they have beautiful hand-crafted solid-cast metal accent tiles, cabinet hardware, switch/outlet covers and more. You can order on-line and they have a beautiful photo gallery for ideas!

Here is a link that might be useful: Bear Creek Bronze

spam? Kassiebcb (bear creek bronze)....

Guess every kitchen needs some spam. You're so subtle, Kassieb(ear)c(reek)b(ronze).

Prep sinks are about function, not so much size. Sometimes a small kitchen can need a prep sink to overcome a space adn function issue and function larger. large kitchens need them more often because things that get spread out can start to have their own space and function issues, but more space isn't the only reason to have one.

The important thing is to have the counter space (and a sink) where it is most needed and used. That isn't the same for everyone. I have 24" to one side of my cooktop, but that is my short side. While others have said they would be fine with the cooktop space in the U plan, I would feel hemmed in, but obviously everyone is not the same. I was in a kitchen last night where the cooktop was set into a stone niche with virtually no usable counter space on either side -- maybe enough to lay a spoon on it's side. Someone paid about twice for that house what we have into this one with the remodel, so obviously we don't all have the same needs or priorities. In fact, I chuckled that they had a motion sensor trash can in the aisle while most folks here have a high priority on hiding the trash.

Spin, I'd get away from the forum. At least for a a day or two, if not two or three. Take your drawings, study them, measure, tape, plot in your space, then put them away and get out of the house -- go look at displays, model homes or see a movie -- maybe all of the above. Have dinner with friends. Do what ever you need to get you head clear and then come back. Of course, when in that stage, I found that even if I went to see a movie, I would be noticing kitchens. Went to the bookstore, same books and magazines with more kitchens -- but I got away from my plan and was noticing what I liked over and over and what of that felt most like my home.

When you think you have your answer, I'd suggest at least a one day/overnight break again. If you can remove yourself from all the things that sound great or worry you, balance them, make a decision that seems best for YOUR needs and then keep coming back to it, then you know you have what fits you. That's what you need to find. I have MY kitchen. Mindstorm has her kitchen. Buehl has hers and rhome hers. These are all great kitchens and these other women have great vision and experience -- but your vision, your lifestyle and your needs are what matter. We are all giving you our insights and preferences, and they are all valuable advise, but never feel that you have to please us, the architect friend, the KD or anyone else -- just you and your family and the way you live.

The only thing I would say about your plans is that you need to answer all your questions. This may seem contrary to what I just said, but it won't all happen overnight. Don't rule out moving a door because you think it will cost too much until you've talked to at least two people about what it would take and looked at whether there are cost factors you can trim (simple things like painting walls and trim yourself) that might offset those costs. Don't leave any questions unanswered. When you are done, you want to be able to say "we didn't do that because we would have had to give up......" not "well, we didn't think we could do that but now we wish we had."

It seems like this is getting overwheleming. Go enjoy a weekend. ;-)

I'm just so ready to have this done. I've been working on this since February, and have had to take breaks because I've been overwhelmed. It shouldn't be this hard.

Oh, gee. Just for openers, I am typically of no help when it comes to discussions of layouts so don't expect any brilliant advice from me on that score. But, having seen this thread grow and grow, my curiosity got the best of me today and I decided to open it to see what the heck was going on. :->

Sure enough, having now briefly glimpsed the discussion, I can't tell you to go "U" or "Island" or to totally reconfigure your space. But what Lascatx said! Sometimes when we've been at something for a very long time and with great intensity, we feel that if we just push a little harder, focus even more intently, we'll finally get it done. Ironically, usually the opposite is true. The fact that you've previously had to take breaks out of a sense of overwhelm makes a lot of sense. That's your mind and body telling you to step away. Rome wasn't built in a day and the good lord did prescribe a day of rest!

Take a deep breath, spin and step back. Although I know it feels like forever, the truth is -- working on your kitchen remodel since February is really not that long! Not that I would wish it on you but my own kitchen project took nearly 3 years to complete with substantially long breaks of 6 months and more in between. Over that time, I found that my ideas and plans changed significantly. Without a doubt, the kitchen I have today in no way resembles the kitchen I had in mind in 2006. And I couldn't be happier! Many other TKOs have the same story and have project completion stories that are even longer. But, oh the joy, when all is said and done! You will get there. Just accept that that this is a very fluid and dynamic process -- not all elements of which are under your control.

Ok. End of comment and I sure hope that sounded more like a note of encouragement than a lecture! As Lascatx said, enjoy your weekend. You deserve it!

I worked on my ideas off and on for 3 or 4 years. I had a six to nine month break when my leg got injured at a granite yard. The last several months were the most intense and where everything finally came together, but not without some changes. All during this period there would be brain aching, head banging, thinking and rethinking and that total frustration that something involving a few appliances and a sink shouldn't be all that difficult. There are so many decisions and so many things to consider. The layout sets the foundation for everything that comes after it and is the one thing you are least likely to do anything about once it is in place. Take the time to get it right. Think about what you want -- in terms of function, feel and appearance. Consider what others say about function and then see if it applies to you and your family's needs, then look at how it fits into you vision.

Certain aspects of planning a kitchen are not that hard, but others are tough. There are about a million choices and so many factors and trade-offs that have to be considered to make each one. That part is tough -- and it takes time if you want to make changes from what someone else already planned for that space. Take the time -- and sometimes that means getting away from it all and reflecting. Remember the saying about not seeing the forest for all the trees? You are counting leaves right now. Step back....breathe. It's going to come together, but you need to regain some perspective so you can weigh the choices. It's not my kitchen and I'm having a hard time keeping it in focus.

If it makes you feel any better, we started the beginning of March 2007 with our planning. We thought...no problem, we'll be all done by fall! Ha! We didn't finalize our design until November 10, 2007. We demo'd January 21, 2008. Moved back into the kitchen July 2008 (but not really done yet). Mostly done by September 2008. We're still working on our Punch List in June 2009! (It was supposed to be a 4-6 week project!)

Oh, and ditto what MarthaVila said...my new kitchen isn't anything like what we had originally thought we'd have when we started out in March 2007. I also couldn't be happier!!!

We were so sure we would have an island kitchen but in the end the small "U" worked better....and folks here made me realize it! (They were very patient with me!)

And Lascatx is right, you need to find what works for you...if it means going w/the island with its pros/cons, then do it. If it means the "U" with its pros/cons, then, again, do it. In the end it's your kitchen and you and your family have to live & work in it. What we want to be sure, though, is that you've seen all your options and know the pros/cons of each so you can make an informed decision.

Take that break if you need it....we'll still be here when you get back!

I don't think I'd have any hair left if I worked on this for three years! My situation just got more interesting- we now have a "beat the baby" timeline! We don't want any more projects with two little ones, two big dogs, all while working full time jobs. I hope this will come together very soon!

...if I went to see a movie, I would be noticing kitchens.

lascatz, I do this all the time these days. I'm driving my hubby crazy!

Congratulations on your happy news, spincrazy! Even though you now have a good reason to stick to a time line, try to follow lascatz and marthavila's advice and take a break, even if it's a small one. And it might not hurt to heed my hubby's advice. When I get stuck in a never-ending what-do-I-do quandary, he reminds me that "there comes a time in every project when you need to shoot the engineer and ship the product." ;-) Not that they actually do that (thank goodness since he's an engineer!) but his point is that we can fuss and fuss and fuss with a plan, thinking the perfect answer is just around the corner and we fail to realize that what we might be doing is just revisiting the same issues over and over and not making any progress at all. Besides, perfection isn't possible.

Congratulations, Spincrazy! Now we'll need to work a high chair into the layout, and an exersaucer (do people still use those things?).

I posted a response shortly after your 13:55 message, but I don't see it here...I agree that a break is a good idea for you. Have some fun enjoying your news, relaxing a bit, and get all this kitchen stuff out of your head...fresh eyes and a fresh perspective may help a lot!

Congratulations!

Congratulations!!

I'm SO glad I checked back...A BABY!! Very exciting! I can talk baby and pregnancy even more than I can talk kitchens. :-D

More important than a new kitchen, but it'll be nice to have both.

Best, best, best wishes!

Thanks everyone! I don't know if I can realistically stop thinking about it since I'm so TKO at this point, but I will step away from here for a minute. Like Ah-nold says, "I'll be back!"

Spincrazy,

Oh I am so happy for you. A baby in the kitchen.
Wonderful news. Now go and rest, take a wonderful nap and
enjoy letting things happen as they do. No worries for you.
Just good thoughts of your baby to be.

Best wishes,
~boxerpups

Well, you're probably away on your much-deserved break, but just in case...
CONGRATULATIONS! What beautiful news! I have a feeling its going to put all things kitcheny into their proper perspective and proportion in the most perfect way.