Post up a floor plan with ALL dimensions for the best advice.

Both look decent. If you want a more high end look, that can be supplemented with trim. You have crown in the drawing, but consider adding corbels to the cabinets over the range. Under cabinet lighting and a light rail trim under the cabinets will also give them a more custom appearance. 1 may look a little more custom but I also like the counter space in 2. 1 may be a little more open? Both are fine.

I like the first one as it incorporates the ice water stone fire concept.

What are your goals for the remodel? What problems with the previous layout are you trying to solve?

Where's the DW? It should not be b/w the sink and range.

I like the island location from 2. That gives room to put the frig where the short counter return is. Add the sink and range spacing from #1. You need recessed 4" led task lighting. 450 limens at the counter placed so you don't shadow the work zone. Pendants are accent lights.

What about flipping the range and sink locations in option 2?

DW is between the fridge and sink so it is not in the prep zone as Buehl mentioned. This follows the IWSF work flow that rosiembog talked about. If you are unfamilar with this concept, here is a humorous thread describing it.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

I got rid of the glass stacked uppers just because they looked really squatty and not in proportion with the cabinet underneath. It could just be the rendering though. What is the ceiling height?

in regard to the DW I would want a larger upper cabinet to load and unload the DW to.

I personally do not like one wall kitchens; people get stuck between the island and the wall, but that is just me. You mentally make a meal and clean up in the area and find which suits you most for the way you cook and clean.

I’ll pretty much alwYs say yes to the bigger window!

Love the large window--but not the oven vent arch that you have with it.

Thank you all so much! This is fantastic advice and we really appreciate every single comment. Please keep any thoughts/ideas coming! It means a lot to us. :)

@Kendrah for your comment about the crown stretching over the sink, I like where your heads at.. so are you thinking it would look better to wrap it around the cabinet and leave the wall area above the sink empty? Also, curious why you are against the spice pull-outs. I'm totally open to it! Just wanted to pick your brain on why... too small of a kitchen? Thank you!

OP - the spice pullouts are generally bad function. You can only see the stuff on the top row, and then only if you label them all from the top. Anything on rows 2 or 3 you need to squat down to see. A friend of mine had a vertical spice pullout in her kitchen and I cooked a meal when we were visiting...I didn't realize how much I would hate that set up until I used it. I had to look through 3 rows of spices all while practically sitting on the floor to find what I need. Spice drawers are so so so much more functional. Here is mine - I had to decant spices and stand them up in the drawer as I didn't have enough space to lay them down, but if you have a drawer that will fit your spices laying down, that works too and wouldn't require decanting (although I have to say that I love this system - everything is the same size and easy to find - no squatting or sorting through spices required).

Regarding your kitchen...I would honestly put the sink on the island and put windows flanking the range. I used to be a staunch "no sink in the island" person, but in my new house (production build) I didn't have a choice. Yes, we had to change our habits a bit regarding clean up, but having the sink on the island situated perfectly for prep...it is such a pleasure to cook in. And having the DW out of the prep space so I just have it open while I'm cooking so I clean as I go - it's awesome.

If you plan on using your island for prep, it should have a sink. You could possibly make a prep sink work as well.

I agree about the spice pullouts - we have them and I found they were not very functional for spice, oil, etc., storage. I eventually moved my spices to an upper cabinet next to my cooktop & in my Prep Zone and oils to the pantry.

The flanking pullouts are one of my regrets with my Kitchen. (The biggest regret is that I put the trash/recycle pullout in the Cleanup Zone instead of the Prep Zone -- it's needed far more often from the Prep & Cooking Zones than the Cleanup Zone!)

If you post a fully-measured layout of the space & sketch of the entire floor, we can take a shot at coming up with a better, more functional layout.

See the Featured Answer in the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First!" thread. I've posted a sample layout below.

Wow - this community is so incredible. I'm really so touched and open to all your feedback - thank you thank you!! @Buehl that is such a generous offer. Here is our proposed main floor plan below. As you'll see, we are bricking in the existing back door, and putting in a bigger patio door in the rec room on the right. The kitchen in this plan was just more of a visual as part of our permit process - not want we need to do. Thank you!!

"the hoods are far too large for your size range, no arched hood, no crown stretching above the sink area, ditch narrow pullouts on either side of range, make larger lower drawers."

^^Exactly what @Kendrah said. I am so glad the OP has an open mind about suggestions here.

Not what you asked, but a bit more re the hood. I realize the renderings aren't precise, but I can tell that the hoods are too shallow front-to-back. This is a very common issue with hoods that are cabinetry-surround hoods. The cabinet maker or designer will not make them deep enough unless prompted, or even unless demanded with a lot of assertiveness by the homeowner.

The issue is that ranges are at least 24" deep front-to-back. Many of the "pro-style" ranges are deeper than that - around 28" deep. But these cabinet-surround hoods are typically only 18-19" deep (check what yours is). In your renderings that show the side view of the hood, you can see that the front burners of the range are not covered by the hood.

That means that smoke/grease from cooking on the front burners will float up onto the front of the cabinet hood, rather than up the hood exhaust. The solution is to make sure the design drawings stipulate that the depth of the cabinet hood surround is 24" front-to-back.

Do you have a layout with measurements of walls, windows, etc.? Unfortunately, the computer-generated measurements in your layout are not those that can be used. Computer generated layouts usually lack key measurements and, sometimes, measure to/from things like the middle of a wall or the middle of a window. Neither are useful. We need measurements that are the widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway.

This is what we need:

Do you have a basement or crawl space beneath the Kitchen? Or, are you on a slab?

Glad you saw this thread Buehl. You always figure out a great kitchen layout to fit the space. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

And, I'm back! (Busy with work & family over the past few days.)

I came up with four layouts and, of the four, I would probably use #1 it this were my Kitchen. I'll put them in the next message.

Frist, here's the "blank slate" with constraints marked.

General:

• Window(s)…All layouts modify the window in some way. In #1, there are two 33" windows flanking the range. In the others, there is only one window 66"W window. None move it over more than 30". (I know you said you can go 31.5", but I wanted leave some "wiggle room".)
• Pantry Storage...Layouts 3 & 4 have shallow pantry cabinets. I was actually hoping to put shallow cabinets along the wall to the stairs, but it appears you plan to make that into a second Living Room. If it's possible, I would think about putting pantry storage under the stairs - b/w the studs, if necessary. For most items, pantry storage does not need to be much deeper than 6" to 12", even 3" or 4" can be very useful (one can or box deep). Small appliances and cereal boxes, will need 9" to 12", but they can be stored elsewhere.
• Island...All layouts have an island that's 57"D and have at least 4 seats, the width of the island varies depending on the rest of the Kitchen layout and seat locations.
• Island sink...All layouts have an optional island sink. This give you a nice place to prep while visiting with friends and family or while watching the TV in the second Living Room. Most people prefer not to prep against the wall, so putting the Prep Zone in the island is ideal. The island is big enough that you will have a large expanse of counter space even with the sink. If you don't want one there, then the island is far less useful for prepping and it becomes a "secondary" or even "tertiary" Prep Zone b/c there's no direct water access. (Direct water access with a minimum of 36" of adjacent counter space and near the Cooking Zone are KEY items for a successful Prep Zone.)
• Trash/Recycle Pullout...The trash/recycle should be in the Primary Prep Zone and near the the Cooking Zone. If possible, it should also be near the Cleanup Zone, but you can put a small trash can under the sink if it's not possible. Why should it be there? Because far more trash & recycling are generated when prepping and cooking than cleaning up. So, if there is a sink in the island, I recommend putting the trash pullout next it and near the Cooking & Cleanup Zones. If there is no sink, then put it on the non-DW side of the sink since that will be your Primary Prep Zone.
• MW...All have an under counter MW drawer. This saves you counterspace. I've had them since 2008. I did have to replace the first one when I did something stupid, but other than that, they work fine and even the first one lasted much longer than any countertop model I've had in the past - at least 3 times longer. My 6'5" DH loves it and has told me several times that he never wants any MW other than a drawer! My 6'7" DS also likes it. I'm telling you this b/c some people are spooked regarding them b/c they think they're too low for taller people. Obviously not in our family! The work very well -- smoothly open & close, just reach down to stir or to put/remove food without having to reach inside a countertop model, and controls are angled up so no squatting or leaning down to read or use them. Note that (1) Sharp makes all drawers and (2) the 24" & 30" are the same size inside (the 30" just has more external trim). So, stick with a Sharp (less expensive) and a 24" wide model.
• Refrigerator...All have a 36" Counter-depth refrigerator. Note that "counter-depth" only means the refrigerator box is counter-depth; the doors and handles stick out farther, which they have to do to allow the doors to open fully. It's located where it is accessible from the DIning Room as well as Living Room and not too far from the Garage for grocery unloading.
• Wall b/w the Powder Room and Kitchen...Layouts #1, 3, & 4 extend the wall a bit to provide more wall space on the left. The doorway is 42" to 48" wide in these layouts. (It's unchanged in layout #2.)
• Aisles...All aisles meet recommended minimums for more than one person working in the Kitchen (48"). (OK, one is 47", but you could probably move the island over an other inch to get 48" if needed.) Aisles behind the seats are at least 44" and wider where there are cabinets and/or workspace. [Aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest -- counter overhangs, appliance handles, etc., not b/w cabinets b/c the cabinet measurements only include the cabinet boxes, not the doors/drawer fronts, knobs/drawer pulls, or counter overhangs.]
• Seating...All seats have a minimum of 24" of linear space with 15" of clear leg/knee overhang space -- the minimums recommended for counter-height seating.

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Layout #1 - my "favorite":

• Note the seats at the island are not all in row like in a diner, they're perpendicular to each other for ease of conversation and visiting. While all layouts have seating on two sides, the 4 so close together are more "intimate". (In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I would probably not string all the seats across the back in the other layouts like I did. Instead, I think I would replace one or two with more cabinetry for more storage.)
• You have two "primary" Prep Zones -- one in the island and one b/w the corner and range. Both offer a pleasant place to work. As mentioned before, the island lets you visit with others. The one next to the range is in front of a window so you can see outside while prepping (assuming it's a desirable view!)
• Regarding work zones and their work & time spent in them:
• -- 70% or more of the work done/time spent is in the Prep Zone - preparing a meal, making a sandwich, etc.
• -- 10% is spent in the Cooking Zone -- stirring, adding ingredients (you rarely stand there and watch food cook (yes, there are exceptions, but most food doesn't need constant oversight))
• -- 20% or less is spent in the Cleanup Zone -- cleaning up the Dining Room & Kitchen. It may seem like you spend more time in this zone, but much of the work is not in front of the sink. This work includes clearing the counters & table, wiping down the counters & table, sweeping up, loading the DW, and unloading the DW. Not much time is spent at the sink -- you don't even have to rinse dishes anymore b/f loading the DW -- just scrape & load.
• I really like the layout with the Cleanup Zone on the far wall from the Dining Room so there's less reminder of the "mess" while eating (one of the issues with open concept layouts -- you're reminded of the Kitchen mess while eating (which for can cause a bit of stress for some people).
• Dish storage is above the sink & DW and across the aisle in the island. If there's a sink in the island, then dish storage could also be b/w the range & sink. If there is no sink in the island, then I advise not putting dish storage b/w the range and sink b/c someone unloading the DW or setting the table will get in the way of someone else prepping. (Another advantage of an island Prep Zone -- less zone-crossing.)
• The cabinets and counter are 3" deeper than standard along the left wall. It provides you with more "face" room as well more storage. Above the sink you could put a 12"D plate rack or a 12" upper cabinet - but I would install them higher than normal, maybe 30" above the counter. Or, you could leave that space open and put an interesting piece of artwork or tile backsplash. Note that unless it's your Primary Prep Zone, not much time is actually spent at the sink.
• There's a Tea/Coffee & Snack Center b/w the refrigerator & range that contains the MW drawer. Most food that's MW'd comes from the refrigerator or freezer, so it makes sense to locate the MW close by. Water is in the island for the coffee maker tea kettle.

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Layout #2:

• This layout is close to a "galley" layout with one wall + the island.
• In this case, the Tea/Coffee & Snack Center is on the far left since there isn't room next to the refrigerator.

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Layouts #3 & 4.

• Both layouts are similar. The difference is the refrigerator's location. In #4, it extends past the end of the Kitchen so there's more room b/w the range and refrigerator.
• These are the layouts with the shallow pantry cabinets along the left wall. Note the corner is voided out, at least at the upper cabinet level. You might want to leave it open under that space to put a seldom-used large appliance (e.g., stand mixer), but I wouldn't put anything you use a lot in that space b/c it's going to be similar to a blind corner -- but at least it will only be 12"D and not 24" or more. (That means that space will be more accessible.)

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Oh, and make most of your base cabinets drawers! They don't have to all be the same size, size them for what you plan to store in them. Once your layout is done, create a storage map (see mine below) and decide what to store where keep in mind that most items should be stored at their point of use for best functionality.

Oh wow Buehl! Once again, you never cease to amaze me! I would ”like” your posts a million times if I could. Your detailed notes explain things so well. That storage diagram is awesome! I am saving that. I liked all of your plans, but I love the look of the windows flanking the hood, so that one is my favorite too. 💗

Great idea you had of extending the wall by the powder room. It not only gives more wall space for the kitchen, but it makes the bathroom more separated. I tried moving the range to the short wall and this is what I come up with. Sorry the text is kind of blurry.

I “put away” stuff in the cabinets where I personally might like to store them, but you can switch it however you prefer. I would keep my coffee pot and toaster out on the counter to the right of the main sink. Maybe a colorful mixer in the corner?

I centered the range. It does make the counter to the left tight, but I did not like it pushed too tight towards the corner either. Plus I liked the symmetry of the two small uppers opening away from the hood. They would store cooking items like oils, vinegars, S & P, tall spice containers, etc…

I kept Buehls island pretty much the same, but I flipped the two seats to the other side. Hopefully there is enough space between the seats and the corner. I made the trash slightly bigger. I thought it could have two back to back bins with one for trash and one for recyclables?

The window is the same size that you have existing. I liked that you have a nice big window as the focal point when enter from the front door.

@rebunky -- That layout would work as well. However, the island & the island sink aren't as useful since they "face" the Cleanup Zone and not the Cooking Zone. There is plenty of prep space b/w the cleanup sink & range, so I might eliminate the island sink in this layout.

There is some zone-crossing since the refrigerator is on the other side of the Kitchen, but if the aisle is wide enough to get past an open DW door, it's probably OK. It does follow the "Ice.Water.Stone.Fire" flow!

@Christine F - Rebunky's layout is a 5th option!

Thank you so much for the valuable feedback Buehl. I totally agree with both of those points. I learn so much from you!

I really did not love how in my layout the L shape was so looooong on one side and so short on the other. It gave lots of prep space between the sink and stove, but it elongated the work triangle so much that the fridge to range was pretty far.

I think I was basing it off of my kitchen layout, which is very similar. My island is across from the clean up zone with my range over to the side. I could not orient my island to face the range because our open concept room didn’t have enough length. We also wanted the island to face the living room and the ocean view. I think it works okay for us, but possibly it is because the ”L“ shaped walls are more equal lengths. And, as you mentioned, the working isle is nice and wide at ~54” from perimeter sink to the island. We have a full depth fridge and it lines up with the end if the island. The distance is about 47” which is the perfect distance for me to pivot from the fridge to drop stuff on the island.

Let us know your thoughts Christine! 🥰

I am so often in awe of the expertise on this forum! (“lurking to learn“ should be my screen name)

I am bursting with gratitude and excitement over here for all your support... and I have a vision of coming back to this thread, and posting a REAL LIFE photo of our kitchen with your layout!! A more opinionated response to come... but right now, I'm combing through your every words to formulate a decision based on all this gold advice and guidance. THANK YOU to the moon and back friends!!!!!! <3

Oh please do come back and post a reveal thread with before and afters. We love seeing the vision come to life!

Having your support on this is game-changing for me - seriously, thank you! I could've cried last week trying to tackle this without you. I used the Ikea Kitchen planner to mock Layout #1-3 in 3D.. now, it's not drawn to scale, but I did the best I could (as a beginner using this type of software) to get a visual of the options. What do you think?? :) I'll try tackle #5 tomorrow!

Absolutely the one with the windows flanking the range but only if you can get a prep sink in the island.

Another vote for #1!

Agree with anj_p that a prep sink on the island would be great because then your main prep area faces the kids or guests seated at the island and those hanging out in the family room. Then just turn your head to the left to interact with those in the dining room. It puts you front and center to all the action as you prep. Secondary prep can be on the back wall so that two people can be working at the same time. But the island would definitely be the prefered spot for me.

#1 with a couple of modifications....

1. As Rebunky & Anj_P also said, a prep sink in the island to make the island much more useful. Is there a reason you did not put a sink in the island?
2. Move the DW to the left of the cleanup sink - it looks like it's around the corner right now. Directly next to the sink is more ergonomical as well as gets it out of the Prep Zone b/w the sink and range. This is especially important if there's no sink in the island.

#1, to me, looks the most spacious and provides a lot of counterspace where it's most useful as well as provides a place for Snack or Snack/Beverage Center.

Do you have a basement or crawl space under the Kitchen or are you on a slab? If there's a basement or crawl space, adding a sink to the island shouldn't be a problem and will be relatively inexpensive. However, if you're on a slab, then it is more work and more expensive.

Looking at the other layouts, if the window will be divided like you show, I would not center the sink on the window as a whole, I would center it on one side of the window or align it on one side. Centering a sink on a split window like you show in #3 means looking at the divider, not out a window. #2 has a better location for the sink. If aligned with one side of the window and you prefer the appearance of being centered, install the faucet so it's centered on the window, not the sink.

If you can get it, I would get a sink with an offset drain so there's more usable room under the sink.

If #3, I would move the sink to the left to center on the left window section and to give you more prep room b/w the sink and range.

Overall, to maximize storage, I would get a 30" single-bowl sink. If you prefer a double-bowl sink, then I would probably recommend a 36" sink base with a 60/40 or 70/30 bowl arrangement (2 different sized bowls -- 60% for one bowl & 40% for the other OR 70% for one bowl & 30% for the other). Different sized bowls gives you the advantage a larger bowl on one side for larger items/tasks and a smaller bowl for smaller tasks.

I really love Layout #1, for many reasons but another notable one is that I had hoped to do a cool plaster hood, and I think windows flanking it would look nicer than cabinets. So in #1, I can still do the hood I had envisioned! My second choice is layout #5 - love the increased upper cabinet storage. Thank you @rebunky!!! You are all so amazingly generous. ❤️

@Buehl, in my layout #1 pic, I couldn't get the sink on the island using Ikea tool (updated pic below) - but YES to the island sink. I was against this, to be honest... but you've all sold me. I trust all your advice! Also, the dishwasher is to the left of the sink (I just made it panel-covered so you can't tell it's a DW). We are going to do cabinet panels on our fridge and dishwasher.

A couple thoughts I have:

- I may like to move the MW drawer in layout #1 to the island so the range and MW drawer (the only visible appliances), aren't beside each other. Thoughts?

- Do you see a world in which I can have an appliance garage? I use a massive blender every day.. would be great to hide it if possible somewhere!

Next up... I'm going to go and map out 'where things will go' as you suggested.

Layout #1 - with sink in island this time

Option 1 is soothing and symmetrical. Easy choice. 2 looks like you made do. Sorry...my opinion

Regarding microwave placement, think of how much you actually use it, and that should dictate placement.

If you do a lot of cooking, the island will be your prep space. The microwave there will just take up valuable space for prep tools. For example, my prep space is on my island as well, and I have a 3 foot 3-drawer stack with top drawer being prep tools, 2nd drawer being large prep bowls, and 3rd drawer miscellaneous prep (chopper, dough mat, hand mixer). I would hate to have my microwave take that space. Adjacent is my trash and spice drawer. Having all that stuff right under my prep space is SO convenient and functional.

I don’t want to seem like I am pushing my layout or anything. I still love Layout #1.

Just for fun, I played around with adding a plaster hood and a place to hide your blender.

I got rid of the uppers on the range wall to let the plaster hood be the main focus.

I rearranged things to fit a pantry/hidden appliance storage on far right. (I like that it pushes the fridge closer to the sinks)

I was thinking of something like this but smaller and with only one door.

Oops, I just realized there is somethings that don’t coincide between the 2D and the rendering. You can switch it up to what makes sense for you. I think I have the sink bigger in the 2D?

Oh @rebunky, how fabulous. Thank you so so much for sharing this - you are a pro! I really love this (layout #6) too - that side cabinet idea is so smart! I think my fav is layout #1, because I love how the DW is off to the side for when people want to move around and someone else is loading. But that said, I think my husband's favourite would be this one, #6, because he is on "team big window!" We have a big decision to make.... but feeling so much better about it, knowing we have 2 awesome options. :) I think I'd be very happy with both. Thank you so much!!

Two windows are better than one IMO.

I layout 6 you really don't need two sinks. That layout puts the cleanup zone in the middle of the cooking zone so it isn't as functional (no offense to anyone's ideas). I feel like #1 is much more functional and aesthetically pleasing.

No worries anj_p, no offense taken!

I added a prep sink on the island this time, but it is not necessary. I agree, Buehl’s layout #1 with the plaster hood and flanking windows would be gorgeous and function well!

A concern some people might have though is that any clean up sink mess is in full view from the front entry and family room instead of being somewhat hidden behind an island. No one will probably notice though because they are focusing on the hood and windows.Get a deep single bowl sink to hide dishes or just put them straight in the DW.

Also for some people, like my husband, the main sink without a window above it is considered some kind of kitchen sacrilege. 🙄 I am fine with it because the time spent on clean up is much less then prepping. Most people do not hand wash all the dishes as they look out the window nowadays. When I scrub a pot or load the DW, I am not looking out my window above very often.

Something that may or may not become an issue is that the dishes are stored pretty far from the dining room. Hopefully the kids or a helper setting the table won’t try to go through the working isle to get to the table. Make it a family rule that you must go around the backside of the island if anyone is working in that isle.

Same thing if you want a drink or want to use the MW. You grab a glass or plate by the main sink and then you need to go around the island to get to the fridge and MW if anyone is working in the isle. Especially if they are using the island to prep and are going back and forth to the stove.

My plan has a few cons as well. If someone is loading the DW at the same time as someone is prepping or cooking, and the chef need something from the fridge, they will need to go around the open door. I have a similar layout and for us it is not an issue. We have wide enough isle to easily get around the door and plus we usually do not keep the DW open at the same time as we prep or cook.

I am sure there are several more cons. But the point is that most kitchens are not going to be perfect. There is usually one or more compromises you have to make. You weigh the pros and cons and then pick the one that works best for how you and your family use the kitchen.

Christine, It will be awesome no matter, so please keep us posted! Progress picture as you go are fun to see if you feel like sharing. ❤️