I reiterate what I said in my first post (this is about what Annie just posted), who knows what the next mutation will be? And that's not fear-based. It's the reality. It does keep mutating. I can hope for the best, do what I can, with intellectual efforts, and still know it's very possible that it can change to something that is far worse than the first one out of the gate. That said, I don't expect it.

@outpaientzero

“ A week later he caught the 19 again for the third time.”

You didn’t say, did he recover? I hope he did. By now you should have heard that Covid cases are not as severe in most that get the vaccine.

Seeing more masks around town. Our flu and RSV cases are among the highest in the country. Lots of stupid people live here.

Painting people taking health precautions as a bunch of cowards is a false premise.

Arguing against a rational fear seems absurd to me, since rational fear is a survival mechanism. IMO, it seems more like an effort to bolster someone's own uncertainty and desire to feel superior - a.k.a. whistling past the graveyard...?

Clear why such nonsense is best ignored. You discredit yourself, no more need be said.

Oh Bluebell66, I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to hear people minimize the seriousness of this disease.

When my test showed positive last Friday, I burst into tears. I'm fit and generally healthy. I wasn't worried about myself, but felt awful that I might have infected someone else. My slight sniffles are now a clogged head and horrible headaches; and my husband got a sore throat two days ago and now has a bad cough. I'm still worrying about my friends with whom I shared Thanksgiving.

The worst thing about this disease is that it's so unpredictable and affects people in different degrees. And we're contagious before we even have symptoms. Plus, regular colds and allergies make people think a runny nose is no big deal.

My husband and I are lucky enough to be mostly retired and able to afford ordering whatever we need. But so many people don't have that financial cushion, have to go out to work and can't afford Covid tests and masks without cutting back on groceries. I think much the same way that those of us who are more fortunate give to charities, those of us who have the means (and brains) to be take extra precautions should do it. Life's not fair, Covid's not fair and humans should look out for each other as well as themselves.

I felt the same way you did. I was up close and personal with my eye doctor the day before I got Covid and was so hoping he was okay. Masks were required in the past covid years but not anymore and he wasn't wearing one and neither was I.

Study: Those Who Obeyed COVID Rules Have More Mental Health Issue

https://catholicvote.org/obeyed-covid-rules-more-mental-health-issues/?mkt_tok=NDI3LUxFUS0wNjYAAAGPw_uBa0AmFjzBssOaoqNZGzqyRzSIW0AmyRf5ltGMxu7BbsCmo_eXoXdEwvbC6zvwouVinj9oKH1lI1ma1UEbz18rs5i4HpBmNdyAOY92

The challenge is finding unbiased data or studies. Sadly that is way harder than it should be. I think most people agree the massive lockdowns had unintended consequences. Knowledge evolves and we all have to stay open to accepting new facts.

FOAS, yes and your source also points out that it was done as a push poll so not really a study at all. And of course, the impact of mental health is irrelevant if you died from the virus. I know I would rather be alive even if distressed than be dead.

it was done as a push poll

Actually “my source” is older and is talking about catholicvote in general, not this specific study by Bangor University in Wales. I suspect they just spun the results of the study to bolster their agenda.

@Ally De - Yes, I’d agree about the unintended consequences. I’m also open to the idea that some of the protocols may have been frivolous and perhaps drawn out too long, driven by political agenda. (Please note the use of ”idea”, ”may”, and ”perhaps.” I’m not interested in discussing or debating this at this time.)

Good idea FOAS - I've found intelligent debate on such is not welcome here. ;) However that is unfortunate because I always learn something when people are willing to chat without rancor. Too many people can't have an exchange of ideas without insulting opposing views.

Also, I agree with you on your ideas for what that's worth.

" there’s only so much time I’ll tend to spend on trash like this, "

I have no time for obvious garbage. Why are some people so easily fooled?

I'm not trying to make choices for anyone else, but for me, when I see health misinformation, I think it is good to try to post another viewpoint. I do think that some people read misinformation and believe it to their detriment. As far as talking about whether there may have been excesses in how Covid was handled, I think that would be an interesting and fruitful discussion, because of course this isn't the last time a challenge like this will occur.

I wrote stuff down during the pandemic. I noted that on March 23 2020 550 people were known to have died in the US. March 23 2023 it was 1,135,087 which is 1,134,537 more over two years as we all who wanted to survive it tried to stay safe and abide by recommended safety practices and obey governmental regulations. I cant even imagine how many more would have died in this first world country with state of the art medical care if we didn't do what we did. I am more distressed by the loss of a brother who refused to get vaccinated than I was by the inconvenience of wearing masks. I have not had Covid by the way. It is neigh on impossible to get accurate data these days so I dont know the numbers now.

I don't need a study of mental health effects to confirm my observations and opinion reached. Many of the "control the spread" policies have created a nation of hypochondriacs. How many died not of Covid but waiting to be told to start living again. How many people needlessly gave up 2 or more years of living out of fear of dying? Those years can't be taken back. I had a lot of deaths among my age group acquaintances. Not from Covid but from lack of activity, depression and simply aging out more quickly. The plump became fat, the fat became obese, the obese became morbidly so. The cane users now have walkers, the walker users are on scooters and the scooter people are in assisted living. I guess those lives don't matter? Merely simply existing or dying years earlier than they would have, are just fine by some. The hypocrisy is clear. The mental health issue is real.

I certainly won’t refute anyone’s personal observations, but the weight gain got me curiois and I found this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9349426/

Objective

There have been conflicting reports concerning weight gain among adults during the COVID‐19 epidemic. Although early studies reported large weight increases, several of these analyses were based on convenience samples or self‐reported information. The objective of the current study is to examine the pandemic‐related weight increase associated with the pandemic through May 2021.

Methods

A total of 4.25 million adults (18 to 84 years) in an electronic health record database who had at least two weight measurements between January 2019 and February 2020 and one after June 2020 were selected. Weight changes before and after March 2020 were contrasted using mixed‐effects regression models.

Results

Compared with the pre‐pandemic weight trend, there was a small increase (0.1 kg) in weight in the first year of the pandemic (March 2020 through March 2021). Weight changes during the pandemic varied by sex, age, and initial BMI, but the largest mean increase across these characteristics was < 1.3 kg. Weight increases were generally greatest among women, adults with BMI of 30 or 35 kg/m2, and younger adults.

Conclusions

The results indicate that the mean weight gain among adults during the COVID‐19 pandemic may be small.

On the other hand, how many lived (and helped others to live) by masking up, by staying out of harm's way? It is not a black/white issue, but it is sometimes difficult to discuss the gray areas because of polarized positions.

How many would have lived if they had not gotten the C vaccine and boosters?

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2023/collective-trauma-recovery

Elmer J Fudd

2 hours ago

A woman like that can't hardly smoke cigars nor spit tobacco juice with a mask on.

Elmer, that comment is beneath you.

^^ I agree. That comment is disgusting and very disrespectful. Easy to make such comments from behind a keyboard. I doubt Elmer would say that to a woman to her face.

Elmer, that comment is beneath you.

Lucille, I believe Elm is just showing us who he is.

It is a cowardly comment that he made.

I accept the comment, there was a macho tone not for the first time and that was my impression. Deleted

Let it go. It's nothing new. True colors come out. The universe works it's magic. Meanwhile life is good. I'll share this week's adventure. Half day ride up to the top overlooking the Santa Ynez Valley. Be happy.

^^ love your gracious post. Beautiful horse and view.

Thanks to all who stay home when sick, regardless of the virus involved. DH and I mask indoors in public. Covid could make me very sick, even kill me, and I'm not the only person 'out there' with a compromised immune system.

This isn't about some political 'statement'. It's public health. Covid has revealed what a poor attitude Americans have towards public health. "We, the people," my foot! Me! Me! Me!

Bad behavior tends to get more notice than good behavior, it seems.

There are plenty of goodhearted folk around, IMPE - more than the coldhearted ones. You know what they say about squeaky wheels...

I work at a casino and I still wear my my mask. Not only for my protection but for others.

Okay on a humorous note the other reason I wear it is because some days I discover that I forgot to shave my chin hair. Damm menopause lmao

Ha - that's another perk I appreciate about mask-wearing too, samkaren 😄

I get to put my money where my mouth is. I was at a Holiday work party and sat next to someone who announced to the lab today, they tested positive for COVID. I'll scale back leaving the house, and wear a mask for the rest of the week.

Does that answer your "but you're infectious days before you know you need to wear a mask" question, food? You can have an idea, and begin protocol. 😉

Rob, if I knew I were exposed to it that closely, I'd take precautions, too. But a close work environment where you’re close to a limited number of people who are apt to warn others if they come down with it is a far cry from being out and about in the general public, which is where I caught it every time I’ve had it. Whatever precautions you are taking against spreading it are great, but the majority of people will not know they’ve been exposed to it until they have symptoms, and possibly not even then. If you truly felt the need to protect yourself at all times you’d have been wearing an N95 at that party. Anyway, hope you don’t get it!

She didn't know she had COVID yesterday. Felt fine. I'm sure she was on a shuttle, or in a grocery store or loads of other places in public yesterday. So those people can't do anything about it.

I understand that.

It's the people, who do know they were exposed, but don't do anything about it and continue on about their business. Those are the cases that can keep it from growing exponentially, but don't. That's the part that's bothering me.

They can do what I'm doing and limit non-essential activities. And at work I will wear a mask.

I have one in a pocket and ready, Rob. Not too long ago we found ourselves in an elevator with a man in wheelchair who was masked and out of respect for him, put ours on.

Note on Seattle's news this evening: (for those who wouldn't know, Seattle is King county, Tacoma Pierce, and Olympia Thurston so three of our major W coast state cities. The nearest full service hospital to us is part of the Providence group)

Both Providence Swedish and MultiCare clinics announced they would start requiring masking from visitors, patients and caregivers.

Providence Swedish clinics and hospitals started requiring masks on Tuesday, while MultiCare will start requiring them in their facilities in Thurston, Kitsap, King, and Pierce counties on Wednesday.

What do we have but cynicism to say that people are going about knowingly exposing others to Covid? You may find your coworker responsible but what will all the people she exposed “on a shuttle, or in a grocery store or loads of other places” think about the unknown person they caught it from?

Say I was on the shuttle with your coworker. I’ve had a lingering cough for over a month now. Not covid. Improving and infrequent now. But say I do suddenly cough on the shuttle and everyone thinks "covid!" and a few days later someone comes down with it. Surely their memory will be of me, and they'll be talking about that nasty guy who should have stayed home.

How could an entire shuttle of people remember which person coughed? I typically respect your opinions food, but this one seems incredibly far-fetched?

Really? It doesn’t stand out at you when someone near you starts coughing? Perhaps moreso now in 2023 than it would have back in 2019? Upthread you sound pretty adamant that anyone with any cold type symptoms should minimize being out in public and mask when they are, but hou wouldnt take note of a sick person near you?

There's no way I could describe who was in line ahead or behind me at the grocery or Walmart at last visit, whether or not he/she coughed or sneezed, or who was in the AT&T store yesterday ... unless it was someone I knew as an acquaintance or friend and we spoke in greeting.

Keep in mind, we have zero control over what people may think of us. For all you know, someone may be thinking bad things about you right now - for any number of reasons, real or imagined...

You guys are getting ridiculously removed from my point. It doesn’t matter if someone remembers me, my cough, or my face. My POINT is that you’re making assumptions that some sizable portion of the population is going out and about in public knowing that they have Covid and selfishly exposing others to it. And I’m asking what evidence there is to support that. My example was to show that on that shuttle, many might assume the coworker is clear and I’ve got Covid. Both assumptions would be wrong.

I might notice it, but I wouldn't remember it later on. And I don't think I am reacting as I did in 2020. In 2020, I was horrified. But that's because I was highly worried that I'd obtain a disease that is my worst nightmare. I have asthma, and I know what it's like when I can't breathe well. I can't imagine dying that way. In 2021, I was dissatisfied with others who coughed for lengthy times or in areas with loads of people, such as a restaurant. These days, I can't even remember a time of someone hacking uncontrollably as they did when COVID was harsher. I don't even give it a second thought for an ordinary cough or two. Or someone sniffing from drainage. Who knows if that's from allergies or not?

Since you asked me. I heard you, but maybe my area of the country is different. If I remember correctly, you're from NY, is that correct? I can see folks there being a bit PTSD about it. It was much worse there. I think your area is going to feel more strongly than say, someone in Iowa or Georgia. It's not as populous, nor were they affected as deeply. Don't you think?

The evidence IMO is seen every day in the mindset of a faction of society.

Maybe I misinterpreted this post:

All this has done is prove that it's like the most selfish disease (like the rest of what's going on in the US) ever. No one cares about anyone anymore. Every man for himself! So sad.

If you’re not accusing people of selfishly exposing others to it, then what did you mean? If you are accusing people of selfishly exposing others to it, then what’s the evidence of that?

FWIW, I think some people use that type of phrasing unthinkingly. My hubby does it a lot - 'everybody knows that...', nobody does that...', and so on. It gets under my skin because it's so clearly not true and has fueled many an argument between us - a.k.a. painting with a broad brush.

It does say something about a person's attitude and outlook, IMO.

And I do know of some people who've gone out and about with zero precautions when they KNEW they had COVID. Hubby's boss's kids went on a cruise when they knew had it - they do not mask up either.

And please do recall the belligerent types who were deliberately coughing on or at strangers wearing masks in public not too long ago. We have a lot of them here where I live - and I'm in a relatively progressive area of the state.

I meant those who know, but refuse to mask up and don't curtail any activities (they'll get on a plane or go visit relatives). There were those that did it when no one knew who had it, how it was transmitted,etc. They just refused. Does that help, food?

And yes, I was exaggerating. I didn't mean no one.

I wasn’t bickering about “no one.” I don’t doubt that there were and are people who would do things like get on a plane knowing they have Covid. My question is if such selfishness is prevalent enough to be considered a significant cause of the spread. I don’t have any evidence saying it’s not, but I also don’t have any evidence saying it is.

My guess, and I admit it’s a guess, is that a carpload of people are spreading it unknowingly. If you’re concerned, the rational thing to do is protect yourself, not assume that others are willfully spreading it, which does you no good anyway.

There are 339 million people in the U.S. It is highly unlikely there will be 100% agreement on any topic although this one certainly is highly emotional and polarizing. Four years in and we are still slinging barbs at each other. I continue to be amazed at the virtue signaling. I think, perhaps naively, that most people are caring and considerate but as with any event our personal experience shapes our perspective.

I feel for those that have lost a loved one or have co-morbidities that make this such a dangerous illness. It’s understandable that this topic would evoke a strong response. I have not had the virus (that I know of) but was diagnosed with cancer at the height of the pandemic which significantly affected the care I received. The medical care I received was sloppy, unprofessional and riddled with errors. So, I’m still a bit peeved. Not at the general public but at the MD’s that treated me and couldn‘t figure out how to communicate with each other, do a biopsy and surgery correctly and accurately document information.

Grammar police need not respond.

(((heritage)))

I hope you are doing well now heritagehd07. I spent many hours during the pandemic with someone recovering from cancer. In his case, they caught if and did surgery just a couple of months before the shut downs and other rules went into place. But it was a difficult time non the less. He was doing his best to save his business while not knowing if he would live to see the outcome. We developed a deep bond of friendship developed during that first year. My best friend underwent a knee surgery to repair a botched procedure 3 days before shelter in place was announced. I was by her side right until they took her into surgery. Little did we know that would be the last time I would see for almost a year. She had to go into long term rehab since she had to be have her leg immobilized for several months before she could begin PT. No visits, food, not even prepackaged and factory sealed, everyone masked and vaccinated, regular testing of staff and patients and yet during that time Covid ran through the facility multiple times. A lot of people simply don't have an understanding of how difficult some of the policies for almost two years in some areas wreaked havoc on people's lives. Or, they refuse to admit it.