Sinks are not like appliances or cabinets, in that there are no working parts, or even parts at all. You get the configuration you want, and in good quality SS (my opinion is that 16 gauge is important), and there is no need to spend $3000+ on a Havens, $4000+ on a Rachiele, or even $1500 on a Kohler. (Also note that many of the Kohler SS sinks are made in China - I myself don't care about that, but if you are trying to differentiate between Kohler and Kraus, it's not going to be by the country of manufacture).

Can you explain more what you want from the Workstation aspect of the sink? You said "the version I want is fairly standard". We don't have a workstation sink, but when I see them, I feel we don't need the "doodads". We have the Elkay 16 gauge SS sink, 36" wide, corner drain. Also, it's an apron front which was non-negotiable for us due to our aging in place and an apron front's ergonomics. In any case, if you want the workstation just for its dish draining tray or its cutting board, those really can be used outside of a workstation configuration.

We are very pleased with the Elkay. My several thousand dollars I might have spent on a Havens or Rachiele were spent instead on better kitchen appliances. Those are my priorities and how I like to spend, but everyone is different, but you asked about justifying the price difference.

@royhobbs The functionality I want with the workstation is the dish drainer / drop in strainer that can be used as such, and recessed sponge tray - basically the ability to get things off of the countertop and into the sink. I don't personally care about the drop-in bowls and stuff. By 'standard' I just meant that the sink is quite customizable (dimensions, finishes). I believe the Kraus comes in 36" but Kohler/Delta don't have a 36" version (just 33" and >40").

I hear you on the lack of moving parts, and as long as both are 16 gauge SS, then I wonder what is different about materials quality or construction that warrants the big premium (or is this just the customizability that comes with being made-to-order, but the quality isn't very different?)

@Raimondi Same question would apply to the Rachiele -- ie, what are the differences vs. a Kraus or similar (if both are 16 gauge SS) that would warrant the price difference? I literally just don't know about sink construction, and it's hard to imagine that a stainless steel rectangle can vary so much... but I assume there is something in the quality of the materials, workmanship etc. that (at least partially) justifies the pricepoint beyond brand and customizability?

The difference is Havens and Rachiele are paying middle-class wages to workers in Florida whereas Kraus and others are using Chinese peasant slave labor until they finally involuntarily harvest their organs.

I am very pleased with my Kraus Standart Pro 18 ga single bowl sink--small radius corners and right rear drain. Got it on Prime Day for 10% of what a basic Havens sink costs.

I didn't want a workstation sink--many of those come with hard to clean 90 degree corners. And, getting a workstation sink automatically means you are signing on for smaller bowl size. That workstation ledge robs you of at least an inch of bowl size.

As long as you get a welded sink, I have found that 18 ga is perfectly fine. (I was in the 16 gauge SS camp until experience changed my mind. But, if gauge matters, there are 14 gauge sinks out there.) Mine is undercoated as most are. It is sturdy--no flex in the bottom of a 33" single bowl sink--and does not sound tinny.

I would much rather splurge elsewhere...like on a Wolf oven.

@ci_lantro Thank you. Helpful perspective!

@Joseph Corlett, LLC Yes, I understand the USA-sourcing argument and what goes with it from a human rights perspective (as with the many products across our supply chain and in our homes that come from China).

In addition to knowing that, I am curious to know whether there is any actual physical difference in the sinks that would also contribute to the price differential - materials, methods, construction quality, etc. Or is the huge price differential solely due to labor costs associated with paying US wages (and sourcing US materials). Can you comment on this?

I have a Havens sink because I needed a custom sink, we previously had a Krauss sink.

Rather than argue about quality, I will just note that there is no value to the quality difference in the two sinks (if there even is one). If Havens is better than Krauss, that difference is well beyond noticeable or useful to even the most demanding sink user.

Factory workers in China generally have OK working conditions and make a living wage. Chinese factories used to mostly do the 996 schedule.

9 am start work.

12:00pm to 2:00pm lunch and nap

2:00pm to 6:00pm work

6:00pm to 7:00pm dinner

7:00pm to 9:00pm work.

While that is a twelve hour day, most Chinese factory workers choose to live in apartments on the factory grounds and have no commute (they are typically nice two and three bedroom apartments). Plus they are only actually working nine hours per day. If the factory runs three shifts they will only get 30 minutes for lunch but it will be supplied by the employer and they will work a standard U.S. 7.5 hour factory shift. Traditionally Chinese factories worked six days per week, but that is starting to go away.

If you want to battle wage exploitation, you are much better off taking a stand against the local grocer, restaurant, or gas station. Those are workers whose living and work conditions you likely actually understand and are exploited so you don’t pay 2 cents extra for a bottle of soda.

@bry911: "If you want to battle wage exploitation, you are much better off taking a stand against the local grocer, restaurant, or gas station."

No American forced to work at a particular job. My local Wawa has a sign advertising jobs starting at $17/hour. Most grocery stores are unionized and wages are even higher. Work life fine in the Chinese dictatorship but American employers "exploit" their workers? Kayak shows one-way flights from NYC to Beijing starting at $900. Off you go.

@wdccruise - No American forced to work at a particular job.

This has to be in competition for the silliest thing I have read in a long time. No American is forced to eat or have a roof over their head either. In 2019, 44% of workers were considered low wage workers, making an average of $10.22 an hour and having an average annual less than $21,000 per year. If facts are so scary that you want people with access to them to leave the country, maybe the country would be better off without you.

There is nothing anti-American or pro-Chinese about suggesting you help people in your own community.

I see — even Houzz has become a Facebook comments section these days, full of people arguing and generally being rude to one another! I usually have seen these forums full of really useful and good natured exchanges of information…

I’m taking from this exchange that a couple people have had good experiences with Kraus or other sinks (thanks to those of you who gave earnest responses)… and no one actually has any evidence or specific insight into quality differences.

I remain open to anyone who has a perspective that is on topic and not hijacking my thread to argue!

@rmb_sf - I have been here since Spike owned Gardenweb and it has always been like this. So let’s not pretend it has suddenly changed.

Let’s also not forget that we are not here for your service. You are getting free information from a community of people who choose to be here and help others largely for no benefit to themselves.

I offered real perspective from someone who has actually owned both sinks, the only person in this thread to have done so. I also countered a valid point on Chinese labor conditions from the perspective of someone who has worked in China. Then, instead of simply saying, ”thanks,” you decide to also paint me and my response to an attack as part of a problem with forums.

I truly regret trying to help you. I am leaving my response up because it may help others in the future.

A little thread drift is a good thing.

I noted and appreciated you sharing your experience with your sinks (no perceived difference). I’m reacting to stuff like this “If facts are so scary that you want people with access to them to leave the country, maybe the country would be better off without you.” And the person above you being equally rude to you (“off you go”). And even the guy toward the topic suggesting that by even contemplating buying a Kraus I am happy to support slave labor.

I’m sure this exists elsewhere in the forums but I’ve read many other helpful exchanges over the years on all manner of topics home and garden, and this stands out for how it went off the rails.

@ci_lantro I saw a Kraus Standart Model #KHT300-33 Pro 16 gauge 33”x22” at Lowes.Compared to their workstation ones it seemed huge!Also it was the best looking sink out of the bunch.It is beautiful.

I found & ordered (it was $100 cheaper)slightly smaller similar Kraus non-workstation sink at Costco-theirs is 32x19”.Their measurements on costco website are not very accurate.We’ll see how compares to the Pro...might end up with Lowes Pro

@rmb_sf

have you looked at the workstations in person?I would love to have space for a 36” sink.Curious what you decided to get.

@jtkaybean: "I found & ordered (it was $100 cheaper)slightly smaller similar Kraus non-workstation sink at Costco-theirs is 32x19”.

That sink appears to be the Kraus KHU100-32 Standart PRO which is $280 at build.com, lowes.com, etc. Specs and other docs under the Documentation tab on the sink webpage.

@wdccruise thanks so much for that link!Hmmm not sure how I feel about the groves on the bottom.I noticed the Pro one also has it.

I guess its better for drainage

@jtkaybean: "not sure how I feel about the groves on the bottom"

It enabled the designer to create a sink that consists of a collection of flat panels while still allowing the bottom to slant towards the drain. Curves are only in the corners.

P.S. I'd call them subtle folds in the metal rather than grooves. I like them.

I have 2 Kraus sinks. I have the one mentioned above-KHU100-32 and I have a D-shaped sink(KBU15) as my prep sink. They are 5 1/2 years old and I have been very pleased with them. As far as the grooves go they are not as prominent in real life as the pictures make them look and then with the sink grid in you hardly notice them at all.

@jtkaybean Thanks! As I research the Kraus, their spec page says the 36" sink requires a 39" cabinet... so I may go with the Havens simply because it fits my 36" cabinet.

"I may go with the Havens simply because it fits my 36" cabinet"

Have you taken a tape measure and stretched it 32", the width of the KHU100-32 sink? It's enormous.

@wdccruise Yes, I have. Agree 36” is large, but I am hoping to have the 3” sponge caddy and a 12” drying tray (or strainer that can be used that way) in order to get those things off of my countertop. I hate the wire drying rack with rubber tray under it that we currently have on the counter! So the bigger bowl gives us flexibility to do that while still preserving open space for washing dishes. At least, that is my thinking.

I spoke with someone at Havens and asked directly about the quality differences. The answer had what I expected (re material quality and handcrafting) but also some silly things (suggesting that a lower quality sink might have to be replaced “every year” .. my current ss sink has been in place for 15 years and seems largely unchanged). I’m going to look into Rachiele a bit before I pull the trigger, as I think their cost difference vs Havens for SS is minimal.

" As I research the Kraus, their spec page says the 36" sink requires a 39" cabinet... so I may go with the Havens simply because it fits my 36" cabinet."

Kraus is incorrect. A 36" sink undermounts into a 36" cabinet, a 39" sink into a 39" cabinet, etc. Your have to strap, not clip or block, your sink in place to do so. Hercules Universal Sink Harness or Sink Strap. I have literally done this thousands of times. I've put 33" sinks into 27" cabinets.

Apron or not, an undermount is an undermount.

I swapped out a 33" cast iron 60/40 double bowl sink for the Kraus 33" single bowl stainless sink in an existing countertop. The single bowl SS sink is a freaking bathtub in comparison. (Streamlined designed owing to material & without the chunky divider and cast iron bulk.)

Bought the new sink with the intention of reusing it when we move the sink to the island. But I may downsize to a 30" or 27" one when that happens if it facilitates fitting everything I need/ want into the island. I think you could bathe a Labrador Retriever in a 36" sink.

@joseph_corlett Thank you - helpful!

@ci_lantro Haha. Agree it’s big. I’m hoping to get our 13” drying rack off the counter by having a 12” drop-in strainer. That plus a 3” sponge caddy will reduce the interior from 34” to 19” opening for washing dishes. So we if use it this way, it shouldn’t seem so ginormous.

I like how Joseph Corlett started the flame war and then stood by while the sparks flew! LOL

But he totally redeemed himself with the insight about the sink size = cabinet size. I did NOT know that!

I’ve been on the fence about the true utility of workstation sinks, but I’ve come to realize the real value of huge sinks is not all the fancy sliding accessories but having enough space to take clutter off the counter for an orderly kitchen, like drying racks, sponges, soaps, utensils, and of course, cutting boards, which both reclaim “lost” counter space and reduce the visual impact of such a wide sink (especially if it is close to the same shade as the counter).

Now that said, back to the actual topic: IMO it’s hard to justify the Havens/Rachiele/The Galley sinks vs your Kraus/Ruvati/Deltas, as the benefits do not increase linearly with the price; they are NOT 4-10X as good as a Kraus. But for me, there may be real value in:

• getting a 48” vs 45” sink for more usable space with accessories in place (45 vs 42” bowl width - 15” cutting board - 15” drying rack = 15” vs 12” open sink width (33% more space)
• a slightly >0 mm radius for easier cleaning
• supporting American jobs

Still hard to justify 4-10X more money, especially knowing it’s not our forever home.

One more option I just learned about: Delta Lorelei Undermount Workstatino Sinks. These have a gentle radius in all corner joints for easy cleaning. I've settled on the Lorelei after finding the most "reasonable" option among the high end offerings, The Galley, raised their prices (a bit, to $4315) and no longer includes accessories, instead charging $1080 for them now, for 5.7X the cost of the Delta.

IMO the Delta accessories are nicer.

I didn't want a workstation sink--many of those come with hard to clean 90 degree corners. And, getting a workstation sink automatically means you are signing on for smaller bowl size. That workstation ledge robs you of at least an inch of bowl size.

Serious question: does a 15" (two tier) or 16" (single tier) front-back width really make a difference vs 17"? I really want to know what items don't fit in a 15" wide sink.

I had no trouble keeping our Kohler Stages 45 clean in the corners, it was about a 2-3 mm radius in all the corners. But maybe it was the cleaning lady? She always cleans the sink and leaves our faucets and handles/knobs gleaming and sparkly.

My daughter bought the Delta Lorelei drop in 30” sink. She is very happy with it. I agree the accessories that comes with it are nicer than several other brands (eg not using bamboo for the cutting board). She got a great price on it from Lowes.

" That workstation ledge robs you of at least an inch of bowl size."

Simply undermount your sink with a 1/2" positive reveal. Have your handyman rabbet your cuttingboard and you've got a workstation sink with no loss of bowl size.

I may be too late to be of help, but as I am researching SS workstation sinks right now I can offer that as long as it's 16 gauge I think you're good. The more expensive options will be 316 vs premium 304 and I think that's where the big price jump happens. A quick google search will tell you that 316 can increase cost as much as 40% but doesn't necessarily warrant major benefits for a kitchen sink. Look at Nantucket too, made in Italy with some lovely options and good price.