If you can find Seventh Generation power, it's pretty good. It used to be fairly easy to find; not so much anymore.

@mxk3 z5b_MI

Unoftrunately, the Seventh Generation laundry powder has been discontinued.

"Unoftrunately, the Seventh Generation laundry powder has been discontinued."

Ack! Now what am I supposed to use?!?! Maybe I can round some up on Amazon.

I don't want OB's or fragrance -- those requirements right there limit a lot. I had a bad experience with the Tide F&C liquid stuff -- I posted how oh yes indeed it DID fade my darks. So I'm swearing off Tide products. I'll be watching this thread with interest...

First, John Brady, let me tell you that I love you because you have a picture of a Samoyed in your name line. I had 2 Sams in my past life and so it is clear we both have good taste.

Second, greeny or SEA SEA, can I conclude that ALL FREE/CLEAR powder boosted with oxygen bleach is on par with TIDE+BLEACH powder? Or, as Cavimum is alluding to, is the small amount of sod. percarb. in the ALL just for the chlorine elimination?

Tide with bleach has a bleach activator so cleaning will be superior to All powder boosted with extra oxy bleach. Tide and All free powders have average whitening on their own as neither has an activator. For blazing whites, use Tide with bleach.

littlegreeny - thank you for that ingredient list. Trying to use Tide's website puts one on an endless loop that circles one back to the start without ever giving the ingredients. Argh.

I have no idea how, why or where I got the idea that liquid Tide Free Clear detergent had a small amount of sodium percarbonate (or STTE). I feel much better now, knowing it has none of that.

@Pat Z5or6 SEMich Agreed, we both have great taste! We have 2 Samoyeds (3 year and 10 year old) and they are incredible dogs.

@littlegreeny If I understood your post correctly, Tide w/ Bleach has an activator in it that makes it more efficient in cold and warm water? Or does the activator make it more efficient all the time?

Bleach activators make the oxygen bleach work better at lower temperatures. At higher temps, it won't make any difference performance-wise.

@littlegreeny that is good to know. I mostly wash in cold water. Is it possible to purchase “activators” separately?

I'm so bummed; I just read the ingredients of TIDE FREE GENTLE powder and "fragrance" is listed. How is that possible? No wonder I like ALL FREE CLEAR powder better!

John, you may want to do a search on this forum for cold (vs hot) water washing for some background information. I think you'll re-think washing in cold water. Except for soaks, I wash with hot or very warm water.

My only concern is shrinkage. We have some cotton pajamas and shirts that say to cold wash only. I’m assuming those are not pre-shrunk?

Fragrance in otherwise non-scented products is typically to cover/neutralize the odor of ingredients that natively have an objectionable scent.

I have not found a bleach activator available as an single ingredient additive. And I agree with Pat and Sea Sea about cold water washing.

@Pat Z5or6 SEMich

Unless P&G recently changed the ingredients (which they are very famous for) that ingredient list is incorrect. I have a few unopened boxes and they have the ingredients listed. Dyes, frangrances and bleach activators are not among the ingredients listed. I will snap a pic of the label and post it for you.

"My only concern is shrinkage. We have some cotton pajamas and shirts that say to cold wash only. I’m assuming those are not pre-shrunk?"

You won't know until you try. Sometimes that is a CYA thing on the part of the manufacturer, sometimes not.

Does your LG washer's COLD setting use cold water as it comes in from the tap supply, or does it have an internal water heater for all temp settings (not just Allergen/Sanitize), with a designated temperature for COLD pre-set as something like 86°F? This alone will make a difference with the odors, as it affects cleaning.

Right now in mid-winter, our incoming COLD supply is 55°F which won't remove anything in the way of oils, body or other. I won't wash anything in that temperature nor would I expect the detergent to dissolve. You are hundreds of miles north of me, so your incoming COLD water is probably an even lower temp.

We don't wash hands or dishes in COLD water for a reason. Even washing on WARM is better than COLD. WARM or HOT won't ruin the bedding and should not ruin pajamas.

@Cavimum Our LG has a Cold setting (which mixes with warmer water) and a Tap Cold setting. I am not sure of the exact cold water temperature that the LG WH3900 uses. I never use Tap Cold but I do use Cold often but now I am leaning towards using warm and hot.

@SEA SEA Our friendship was fun while it lasted! I will check out Drops. Sounds like convenient way to add bleach

@Pat Z5or6 SEMich

Ingredients attached. No perfumes though mine always has a little scent it must have picked up just from being next to scented products at the store but there is no scent left on finished laundry.

@littlegreeny Is there a downside to always using oxiclean when washing whites?

Does Oxiclean Free have activators?

littlegreeny - that's the one I buy at WalMart. It's great detergent. (The "color safe bleach" and optical brightener are why I don't use it on my dark clothes.)

John Brady - I'm not littlegreeny but I always use pure powdered oxygen bleach (not "oxyclean") when I wash sheets to keep them white. I often toss it in with the poly athletic golf shirts, too.

@Cavimum I am using Tide F&G powder as well for whites/lights. So far I am enjoying it.

It seems to me for Oxi Bleach to be effective it needs an activator which is why Tide w/ Bleach does such a great job. Since Oxiclean contains mostly filler and no activator, can I conclude that I am better off using a different brand that contains less filler and more Sodium Percarbonate? Ideally, that brand would also include an activator to be most effective.

I'd like to avoid using Tide w/ Bleach powder because of the perfumes (Cheer powder is really subtle and old fashion smelling) and be able to control the amount of Oxi Bleach that is added.

https://olgaslaundry.com/2017/12/24/ode-oxygen-bleach-favorite-laundry-additive/

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?61474_51

Another rabbit hole!

@SEA SEA Do you know how much powder is in each Dropps OXI Booster pod?

John Brady - sorry, I don't know the answer but someone here will. I buy pure Sodium Percarbonate and use it in HOT wash temps. The hot water activates the bleach.

As far as I know, there isn't a downside to always using oxiclean when washing whites. And it appears none of the Oxiclean products have a bleach activator.

My whites are blazing and I only use Tide Free powder in my Miele at 140F.

HEllo All!!! Its been some time since I've visited the forum and love reading through most of the thread. Littlegreeny, so you now have a Miele. Hope you are enjoying it....

...I digressed, sorry John Brady! I like the discussion..

I have sooo missed my Persil USA type powder. I stocked up on it when it was discontinued, and I have a tiny bit in a jug that I cant bear to use, cause then it will be extinct! So I need something new. I have been minimally impressed with Tide from costco. it doesn't have bleach if Im correct, but was informed that there is the activator in it. I add oxygen bleach to it and wash at 140*F and its ok. As Cavimum says the high temp is needed to activate the oxygen bleach as I recall. Im not sure if there are OB's in the Tide from Costco or not. I don't care for the smell of the liquid Persil USA version.

So I will try Tide Free powder. But I do like a scent in my laundry detergent. I have some Cheer powder I need to use up. All my DH farm clothing gets washed in 140*f. That is the test if things get clean and fresh.

John, you mention that you use cold water due to worry about shrinkage. By far most shrinkage happens in the dryer, not the washer, so the water temperature does not matter very much in that respect.

Hisown is right. I wash my DH 100% cotton flannel shirts in 140* water temp. There is scant shrinking initially. I hang to dry. He has not complained about any shrinkage over the years that I've done this.

enduring, so nice to hear from you again.

@littlegreeny Do you consider white with colored prints/logos to be white? Would you avoid using Oxi with Whites that have prints/logos and light colored fabric? We don't have a lot of pure white clothing or sheets but we do have a lot of whites with prints, logos, etc. (ex. kids pajamas). We also have a lot of light and bright colored clothing and sheet.

In other words, when does it make sense to use Tide with Bleach

I wash in warm or hot only. Most clothing (not undies or socks) I put in the dryer on delicate for five minutes (setting a timer for this), then pull them out and immediately put them on hangers. This knocks out most of the wrinkles and saves me from almost all ironing. I only fully dry things like bedding and towels.

John, I suggest only using Tide with Bleach on whites. I have similar clothing and wash whites with prints and logos with other colors.

greeny and SEA SEA and whomever else uses TIDE FREE & GENTLE powder: If TIDE PLUS BLEACH powder had no fragrance, would you still use TIDE Free & GENTLE powder instead?

Great question Pat.

Littlegreeny, just to clarify. Would your definition of whites include whites with prints/logos. Because of stains and delayed washes, I’ve used Tide F&G with added bleach to loads with whites that have logos/prints with no issues. But I’m concerned issues could arise long term. Again, most of this is toddler/baby clothing that will no longer fit before they actually fade

Pat, I don't see any reason to switch. I am very happy with Tide F&G powder.

John, you'll just see quicker fading using Tide w/Bleach on those items. I'm sure they'll be fine.

@littlegreeny @SEA SEA @Cavimum @Pat Z5or6 SEMich Thank you for all the guidance and information. This thread has been extremely informational and helpful!

Of course, I have more questions but I am also realizing that the best detergency system is definitely based on personal clothing and routines. I know Cheer is the answer for colors and darks (so far it has been fantastic!) but I am debating between Tide W/ Bleach vs Tide F&G with added Oxi (when necessary) for whites and lights (brights, pastels, etc.). We deal with a lot of toddler and infant stains (sometimes on our clothing as a result of the mess they make) so stain removal is often needed.

Today we have 3 baskets (Whites, Darks, Towels/Sheets).

1. Whites includes whites with prints/logos, and lights.

2. Darks includes greys, blacks and colors.

I typically separate our children's clothes from our and wash them separately as they are more likely to need oxi or stain treatment.

Should I avoid washing lights (brights, pastels) with whites (pure whites and whites with logos)? I am trying to simplify everything but also do what is best for the clothing.

1. Tide W/ Bleach

- Pros -- Simplifies the system, Cleans extremely well

- Cons -- Runs the risk of fading, Has fragrance (countered by Vinegar in Rinse cycle)

2. Tide F&G and Oxi (when needed)

- Pros -- No Scent, Cleans well

- Cons -- Need to add oxi, No Activator

*Dropps seems like a convenient way of adding bleach (with an activator)

Just want to say here that I do not, will not, want to add ANYTHING to my detergent. I am 80 years old, I am not buying additives for my laundry. I can barely make it down the frigging stairs to the basement laundry room. Hence, the 2 Tides we are talking about above. They must have the only oxygen bleach I will ever need or want or I won't use them. That's why I love the TIDE WITH BLEACH powder so much -- as MamaPinkyO once said, it is a totally complete detergent -- it doesn't need anything added to it. And it is a whites-only detergent. I think with the TIDE FREE & GENTLE powder, which has a little less oxy bleach that the TWB powder, one can use it also on non-whites. Right, greeny? SEA SEA? Bea? Anyone?

I'm out of it now, but as I remember it, the TIDE WITH BLEACH powder fragrance did not make me itch that much, or bother me, seemed to be very light, if my memory serves me right. I just ordered another box from amazon, so we'll see if my memory serves me right, won't we?

Sorry to belabor this subject, but although I do not have any toddler stains, I do have more than my fair share of the exact same stains(!) I do an awful lot of pre-soaking in these detergents and they work miracles.

Hi Pat,

You asked if TWB powder was unscented would I use it instead/in place of Tide F&G powder...

I wouldn't change my products if it was unscented because I only use TWB powder on whites--the important ones. Sometimes the rags and napkins get it too, like this weekend they did, with 2 TBS sttp and they are bright white, fresh, but I usually have some stains left on rags that look like rust, but they are not. Might be hot sauce or tomato sauce, it's a mystery. The TWB powder doesn't do a better job on whatever it is that we are getting on the rags. I would keep using the Tide F&G gentle powder for my own laundry as I've grown to love it. I'm trying switch the fam over to it, but they are protesting as they really like having a scent in their clean laundry. The TWB powder doesn't cause me or rest of us any irritation or problems with the scent. With the box we have now, the scent is the nicest of their line up. It's been a consistant fragrance since I started using it after joining this group, but who knows if they will keep it the same in the future. I'll have to buy a new box this year so here's to hoping...

John Brady,

I don't know exactly how much oxygen bleach Dropps oxi pods have in them. Perhaps it will help to know that I use two pods with detergent for whites loads, using my TL SQ washer. If you have a FL one might do the job. But I do give it time to soak to let the oxygen bleach have time to do it's job. I have naturally soft water here, so maybe that factors in? But we can get dingy laundry here, just like everyone else if I don't use the right products, machine and water temps.

Hi enduring! Very nice to see you here again.

Thanks! I am going to give Dropps a try.

I’ve noticed that Cheer suds up easily when using STPP. A Cheer little goes a long way! Since we have somewhat hard water, will extra rinses impact the softeness of the clothes since those rinses will be without any water softener (Stpp, vinegar)? Our last rinse always includes vinegar.

I get little to no sudsing with Cheer and STPP added. Fourteen shirts in an HE toploader with 5 tablespoons of Cheer, 2 TBSP STPP. Water visible swishing at upper-right.

I don’t know the temperatures that my
Lg wm3900 produces. should I wash my darks and colors on warm or cold?

'"I don’t know the temperatures that my Lg wm3900 produces."

Does your particular model LG washer heat the water to specific temperatures for every temp setting? (not just "Allergen" or "Sanitize") The information should be either in the owners manual or somewhere on the internet. If it does, I'll want the model number to pass along to our son and his wife, so please share!

If not, you will can do some "scientific laboratory" testing. ;-)

For example --- My new FL does not have an onboard heater. It mixes hot with winter's incoming tap cold (currently 55°F) to make its "cool" and "warm" temps. Those temps will change in summer as the incoming tap cold becomes warmer.

* If your machine's "cold" is incoming tap water cold, the detergent might not dissolve well.

When the current machine was brand new to me, I stopped a few wash loads mid-wash-cycle, stuck a meat thermometer (carefully) into the clothing, and wrote down the temps in there. Now I know what to do to mimic the temps I used in my former FL that had an onboard heater.

I can also start the fill with "cool" (after priming the pipes with hot water at the laundry room sink---something I've always done for decades) and halfway thru that fill-time I switch the water temp to "warm" to achieve what I want for dark clothing. That's my "cold" in the previous washer with a heater and it suited me.

It's not rocket science, but close enough for my comfort level.

The LG wm3900hwa does have a heating element but it is unclear if it is just supplemental for certain cycles or if it actually boosts cycles to the correct temperature. I’ve seen “supplemental” and “boost” used after doing a google search and reading through Best Buy Q&As.

The heater surely is engaged whenever Extra Hot temp is selected. Other temps, the behavior may vary according to the selected cycle, selected temperature, selected soil level, and incoming water temperature. A way to determine for sure when the heater is active is with a Kill-a-Watt. It plugs into the wall outlet (like a surge supressor), the washer plugs into the Kill-a-Wall. The Kill-a-Watt then monitors and reports a variety of electrical parameters, including wattage draw. It'll be obvious by the wattage numbers when the heating element is operating.

John, I'm not sure of the particular button sequence of your LG, but try holding down the delay wash and temp buttons and it should display the temp in C. You can also check RPM speed by holding delay wash + spin speed. Make note of the temps for particular cycles.

I recommend never using cold water for anything. The coldest anyone should ever use is 85F and that for the most delicate items. And that might be the warm setting on your machine. I wash darks and colors at 105F, dark towels at 120F and my dark sheets at 140F.

@littlegreeny do I hold those buttons down during a cycle or before a cycle?

My LG3900

-Normal warm:82.4F hot:104F xhot: starts at 100F then crawls up to 122/150F depends

-perm press hot:111

-heavy duty: warm 111F, hot 122F, xhot starts at 122F and crawls up to 150+ depends

-sanitary: starts at 82F then increase temp up to 140+

-allergiene: temp up to 159F in 20 min (with little water) then a long wash at 104F

-bright whites 111F

-towel warm 86F

The xhot washes and sanitary are not one temperature washes. The temperature is increasing during the wash and the end temp depends I assume one soil level and amount of clothes. For warm/hot the initial temperature is not maintained during the cycle.

I do not know all the cycles yet. I am still learning.

@John Brady to read the temperature you hold those buttons during the wash.

For colors I really like Cheer HE powder. For whites I use Persil universal because I can’t take the Tide smell. I am interested to try the tide free and gentle when my Persil supply ends.

Thanks for the info Alex. My normal also runs at 30c (85F). I have seen users mentioning to enable steam during cycles to get higher temperatures. Have you tried that?

John, I used steam a couple of times and it faded my clothes so I did not look into it further. I noticed that during the Allergiene cycle the steam is used in the begiging of the cycle with very little water before the clothes are actually washed. It raises the temp very high for 20 min and then fills with lower temp water for the actual wash. When I have a load of whites I will run a steam wash and monitor to see how it works in other cycles and report back. However I do not think it is a sub for a true hot wash for whites and it is too high a temp for darks. I read in this forum that for darks some people like the perm press cycle since it has more water and the temps are a bit better than normal. For my whites I used to do the whites cycle but it is not hot enough and now I am switching to xhot or sanitary washes. Still experimenting. I am still learing what cycles work well.

My normal right now (winter) is consistently at 28C.

John, I washed some towels in normal cycle with steam and the temperature went up from 104F to 149F for a wash of 1:38 hours. So quiet hot and long. I would not use it for clothes but maybe linens. Maybe it would be good on the whites cycle.

Thanks Alex. And thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I finally feel like I understand how to use the laundry machine efficiently and effectively