Hi Folks I know it was literally years ago but I just wanted to chime in and say what a great discussion thread this is/was. So many claims are made by sellers and "makers" - for what it's worth, I am going the opposite direction with my project for our own home. I am building new doors that will look like 1930's commercial chiller units, with big hinges and handles as well as adding several personal touches to the whole lot, like refashioned Chrysler wings emblems etc . The two fridges I am using are a liebherr wine/freezer unit and a Jenn Air Alaska model - see attached link and click on AA kitchen project .... might cause some heart palpitations for some, but perhaps a smile for others. BTW In one of my designs I overcame the issues around the toe kick by replacing the floor under the fridge with an insect proof perforated metal grill ... still strong enough to take the fridge and enabled cool air to vent up from the underfloor. Of course, we live in a temperate climate so this may not be an option for N. America. best wishes from Kilmore, Australia Steve Ansell Here is a link that might be useful: Steve Ansell

Yo Ken, if your still around your up on this one. Far as Composites go I am with the Larry/whoever We are for the most part. Composites are really no longer using recycled material because there is just not enough of it so most of the raw stuff is virgin,the energy used to make composite is an enviro no no, when its time to remove the project composite is not real big on bio degrade its tricky to burn shreading it would be silly. Bottom line composites are not so enviro freindly. Info like that might suggest its not all that good to clean it either, with anything. I dont agree>> composites will out last Ipe, left to go silver/gray Ipe is as close to no maintance as a person can get. With the softer composites like Choice/MoistureShield even trex= tjunk I have found a coat or two of TWP 116 seals up the decking,locks in the color and keeps mold,mildew,stains from causing major problems. Of course not needing to do this is the reason the Wallet goes for composite in the first place. I my own self dont like composites at all for the reasons stated in several posts here and on other sites. Welcome aboard Larry!!! Sorry I dident understand your intent at the begining . John

Hollysprings, if molding is being run beneath the mw, then you are saying run the electrical into the back of the cabinet above, and then into an adjacent cabinet, is this correct? Aesthetically, this may be the preferred method. However, I would think from a mw replacement standpoint it would be better to run the electrical thru the 3" bracing between the mw and the cabinet above, and then into an adjacent cabinet. This would eliminate the need to unintall and reinstall molding below a mw every time a mw is replaced. Is there anything wrong with this logic? Electrical can always be run into the above cabinet if a taller mw is purchased later. Is there anything wrong with this logic? Trebruchet, thanks for weighing in on the subject. I would think that in the long run it would certainly be less expense to pay the initial $$$ of increasing wall depth rather than continue to pay someone to install new otc microwaves over the years since they all lack durability. In my home, electrical does not appear to be in that area on the garage side but electrical outlets are below on what will be the coffee bar side. However, there is a pull down attic ladder about 4 ft. past the door into the garage which is immediately adjacent to the area being discussed. Therefore, there is easy access to all the framing in this area. I don't know if this helps, but I thought it might. Is it structurally OK to install a header and jack studs if this is a support wall? At this point it appears I need someone who knows what they are doing to come in and advise me regarding my best options. I don't want to get into an electrical "hornet's nest." We may need to open up the wall to see what the situation is in that area. I'm deeply grateful to both of you for your professional advice.

Thanks to you all for replying, cpartist, salex and suzanne_sl. As hokey as this sounds, it really helps to not have a feeling of being alone through all of this. I showed DH the latest development this evening, and he silently just shook his head. We can't even get on with such a simple (yet gratifying) step as hooking up our UCL LEDs. cpartist: It'd be interesting to know what led your neighbors to choose Showplace, which is sold at a 'value' price point while allowing semi-custom choices. This is my first and last kitchen reno: I don't have anything else to compare with regarding price, value, etc. In the expansive world that is cabinets, I'm trying to figure out what the minimum benchmarks/expectations are for a value line. This is not to say I'm complaining about what we paid: if I balked at the price, I would have expressed this at the outset. It's night time now, but I'll also post tomorrow a few pics of the current cabinet interiors. salex: Thanks so much for reinforcing all the research I've done about screws, threads, etc. Regarding pre-drilled holes, I had to laugh (in a maniacal way, at this point): DH is the only person in three years (of folks who've held a drill in this kitchen) who as EVER pre-drilled a hole. I completely understand folks are working by the hour, time is money, etc., and they're willing to roll the dice when NOT pre-drilling; but the cracks and chips in the wood tell the tale. suzanne: Thanks for taking the time to post your pics. Not knowing exactly how cabinets are constructed, I don't want to automatically conclude that gaps are inherently bad (except for the one I posted Feb. 23/9:26 a.m. - above fridge).