Yes there are black cabinet installation screws as well as black wood screws. Would need a close up to possibly try to identify what was used, but might be hard to do.

GRK Washer head screws for cabinet installation. ^^ Them ain't that. They do appear to be using some wood screws to attach cabinets to each other. But they don't look like they pre drilled, and there looks to be a lot of the heads are stripped out. Hard to tell exactly on that front because it's not in focus, or close enough.

Thanks to everyone!

Mark/Jakuval: here's a pic of the underside of one of the upper cabinets (where I'm seeing this increased gap from front to back):

Though, if the gapping is due to racking, as Joe points out, this pic may not be very telling.

Here are close-up pics of the screws (that attach the cabinets to the wall):

Does this help ID? I'm not so concerned about their use of drywall screws to attach the cabinets to each other (Sophie: they attached only the left bank of uppers to each other -- the right bank are 'unattached'.)

This is underneath one of the uppers (attachment to drywall) where, for whatever reason (incorrect screw, no shimming, etc.), the back panel of the box itself is destroyed:

Stepping back, this is what you're looking at:

Will reply further below -- truly, I appreciate everyone's comments.

ETA: one more pic from -- upper left bank of cabinets, top view:

Similar to the photo(s) last posted, there is a similar detachment of the cabinet's back panel. No pre-drilling was ever done (which appalled my husband, who does some very basic woodwork around the house). When I opened this cabinet at night, you could see light pouring in through this crevice -- they caulked the gap.

Joe: When the SP regional rep visited (with the dealer), I pointed out the caulking issue, hoping he would comment regarding proper installation practices. He didn't comment. To me, that is as much his giving the dealer a thumbs up on the practice -- i.e., move on. What else can I glean from that? The cabinets are stained, so the toekick will not be painted. When we first saw that the installer simply drove the screws into the walls without shimming the cabinets, we already put this on a bullet list to the dealer. The dealer ended up turning the project over to his other/better/A team crew (presumably). But when they came back, all they did was jam shims into the cabinet spaces next to the screws that were already in. There was no attempt to remove screws and shim properly.

Sophie: I'm told the original installer (in-house w/ the dealer/owner) is himself a custom cabinet builder in Houston. The apprentice works for the installer. The sense I get (understandably) is that the dealer is SP's customer, not me. And while I stress that the rep has been attentive/responsive, it's clear he doesn't wish to 'step on' the dealer. I'm repeatedly told we need to work with/through our dealer, which we've done. But whenever we've pointed out issues on the job site, the dealer has gotten very upset with us. I don't know if he's frustrated that his crew's poor workmanship puts him in a bad spot, but venting his anger at the customer is not the way to go about things. Still, we keep living the mantra: give them a chance to make it right. (Did I mention the original installation was in autumn, 2015?)

I come to find out that the second/A team crew is a contractor (not a cabinet installer, per se), so the dealer is subbing out. But when I recently spoke to the dealer and reminded him of outstanding issues, he said he wouldn't send this crew out again; instead, he'd send his custom cabinet guy. Golly, I hope he didn't mean the first guy.

ETA: The dealer is a former president of the local NKBA chapter. This is another reason we went with him. With natural stone countertops, I've been using the MIA guidelines as my bible. Unfortunately, I see no such consumer resources from NKBA that addresses the issues I've seen -- this is why I've resorted to online videos about basic cabinet installation (and a lot of common sense).

I will try to get a hold of someone higher up at Showplace and seek advice -- continually going through our dealer, I feel, isn't an option.

Javiwa,

This is so bad that your only remedy is to ask for you money back and the installers to come and remove the cabinets. They also need to return your kitchen to the pre installation state. You can then proceed to find another manufacturer and a new installer. I don't think it is possible to have a rational conversation with people who are so wholly incompetent. I am sorry your remodel has come to this. Deep breathes!

Call showplace, ask to speak to the president and show them this thread. Make lots of noise. The squeaky wheel and all. This is a hack job through and through.

And I would INSIST that Showplace also replace the cabinets they ruined. Why do I say that? Because the Showplace rep was out to your house and he refused to take your side on the bad job, so he and Showplace are just as responsible at this point.

A dealer rep will only ever be noncommittal during a site visit, unless one of the parties is being loud and obnoxious. He is there to solve problems, not cast blame. Unfortunately, that can come off as not taking the side of the consumer. It's not that. When something is so very obviously NOT the fault of his factory, and instead is the fault of the dealer employees involved, you just don't throw your partner under the bus in public.

Behind the scenes is another thing. They should have told that dealer in no uncertain terms to clean up his act and find better employees or they might not carry their brand in the future. But you aren't privy to that meeting.

Showplace is on Houzz. They are on Facebook. Send them a link to this thread. It's time that they decide who they want to be their dealers. If the dealer gives that low quality of install, such that it ruins their products, then fish or cut bait. Either make the dealer respond and make it right. Or yank their privileges.

However, this all hinges on the fact that those installers were employees of the dealer, and you wrote one check for cabinets and installation. If they were independent contractors that you wrote a check to separately, then the issue is that you were acting as the GC on the job. The GC would never have hired or paid those guys to begin with.

You should really consult with an attorney at this point who can steer you through any vagaries about who is responsible for what. The cabinets look like complete loss.

Sorry this happened to you.

Sophie: I completely 'get' the dealer/SP relationship. However, based on end result, I can't tell if: 1) SP rep noticed installation 'issues' and didn't set the ship right with the dealer (behind the scenes); 2) SP rep didn't notice/catch these installation issues at all; 3) SP noticed them, relayed same to dealer, but dealer either ignored or his guys aren't up to the task. Communications with the dealer (his KD, the owner himself, the installers) have always seemed very disjointed (emails not replied to; emails replied to with only some of the questions addressed..which led to many follow-up emails). As you mention, I don't need to be privy to how the company runs, but it definitely on the surface is not a smooth-running operation.

I hired the cabinet dealer, and all checks were written to the dealer. He brought in the KD/installers/crew.

ETA: All interactions I've had with the KD, installer, dealer/owner and SP rep have been cordial and professional -- I think they would all attest to that. When we first encountered issues (one of them being that the drawers were misaligned and/or different widths within the same base) and had the owner come out to assess, his first words to me: "Seriously? Your eyes can actually see that, huh? I don't see a problem here." This was one of the cabinets:

After listening to the dealer for several minutes deny that there were any issues, DH (who was upstairs) finally had enough and told the dealer his tone wasn't appreciated (a la no one speaks to my wife that way). DH and dealer went back and forth in a fairly heated discussion, with the dealer telling us that he was doing us a favor actually showing up to our house to personally assess issues, and how dare DH be so belligerent? KD and I just cringed, frankly. Dealer settled down a bit, had the KD take notes and pull out the original plans/order (they also ordered the wrong drawer fronts for the top drawers), then ended up storming out of the house.

Before the cabinets were to be delivered, dealer told me (on a Thursday) that the items were 'in town', and that he'd call to let me know when they would deliver to my house. He called me the next Monday, saying he was on his way (their shop is 5 minutes from my house). I told him we weren't ready (the kitchen area was full of a lot of items that needed to be cleared away), and that no one ever called me....could he please give me an hour? His reply: nope...I've already loaded everything in to the truck. I'll drive slow. We had to scramble. He dumped the boxes willy-nilly in the kitchen space, even though he'd told us that whomever delivered would arrange the boxes where the cabinets would be installed. When the installer arrived, he was upset the cabinets weren't arranged properly, so that set him behind schedule! He was further upset (understandably) that no one at the firm had even inventoried the boxes nor checked the cabinets for QC purposes.

My eyes are bleeding. Showplace should yank this guy out of their dealer network if they refuse to make it right.

But, it isn't the cabinets. It's the installation. I'd send a link to Mr. Bigwig With No Eye For Details and ask him if he'd like the stellar pictures of such a fine installation to be shared with the public. If he's smart, he'll replace those cabinets. If not, and he's OK at being named as responsible for that, then share that name. And share those pictures across social media.

That is like ordering the best cut of beef available from your local farm to table butcher, and then the cook at the restaurant attached to it burns it to a crisp.

I'm not recommending an attorney because they can do the negotiating for you, you write another check and you're done, although that can be a benefit. I'm recommending you consult with someone because they can help you document what up to now have been conversations, and make certain that if you end up in court, you come out with a favorable result.

All these interactions are useless to you. Your exchanges have to be documented. And the fact that you're not getting a result with such obvious issues may mean this guy is going out of business. If he does before your issues are resolved, then what? An attorney can walk that tightrope and make sure you get something out of this that resembles an actual kitchen.

eam: Yes, I hear you. Because so many initial conversations were by phone, I made it a point to put everything down in emails: there were so many details (the world of cabinets and specs and measurements and mods) was so foreign to me, it was a way for me to keep everything straight. And whenever they replied (to my email inquiries) by phone, my follow-up email referenced the phone conversation, giving them ample opportunity to 'set the record straight' if I'd missed something. We took a lot of progress photos, and emailed pics to the KD (the designated point person) when we thought something didn't look right. So, I don't think documentation is the issue. Honestly, it's sad to think we're even talking in terms of building a case: is it too naive of me to think that if I pay for a service and product, that folks on the other end will simply do their jobs properly? Just call me a 20th century gal dealing with the 21st century world. To quote Sophie: Sheesh.

" And cabinet screws can have flat heads or truss heads..."

I've never heard of a flathead screw, drywall or not, recommended for fastening cabinets to the wall.

Jeez, they've trashed your cabinets and burnt your steak. When you talk to SP again, Mr./Ms Big this time, you should ask for a total cabinet replacement. Too many cabinets have structural damage and more have cosmetic damage. SP can make it happen and should.

When we installed our new cabinets as first timers hovering around 60 years old, we did a much better job than yours. Things were plumb, level, and shimmed. We read up, we watched videos, we prepared to do the job competently. Those cabinets are never falling off the wall (yours might) or having their bottoms fall out. There is no excuse for the damage has been done to your cabinets by guys who are supposed to be professionals. No excuse at all.

Javiwa, I can't believe you're still dealing with this! were tearing out our kitchen in the next few weeks. To the studs. If you want you can come for coffee and at least be relieved you're past that point. I do love the color of those cabinets.

Did you get everything fixed with your counters?

Withhold payment, dispute payment if paid with credit card. Be the sqeaky wheel, squeak, squeak in writing, complain to contractors state license board, still no satisfaction, then find an attorney. Consider posting on social media with correct but nonderogatory descriptions.

suzanne: DH and I have always DIYed what we could around this 25 y/o house of ours....down to making our own drawer dividers for our new cabinets:

But cabinets were one of those 'biggy' projects that we thought were best left to the experts. Having no experience with new cabinets, we couldn't have known that some of these 'symptoms' (e.g., gaps on the insides of the cabinets) pointed to potential installation issues. I've already posted onto SP's Facebook page and asked to speak directly with their CEO -- I referenced this thread. Thanks for the support.

townlakecakes: We never took our kitchen down to studs (but close!), but I actually think that's a really exciting time! Dusty, yes...but exciting all the same. Good luck. You know me with work this time of year: rain check on the coffee as I'm absolutely buried ... which could be a blessing in disguise, given all this. No, sadly, countertops still not resolved. I'm still sitting here with a four-piece quartzite top when we contracted for two.

practigal: No balance left to withhold. Contractually, the final amount was due (and promptly paid) upon substantial completion.

-------

Pros, a few more pics and follow-ups from me (this all pertains to structural now -- I'm way past the cosmetic). After initial installation of a 39" upper (above fridge), I noticed a bowing/gap/separation towards the rear bottom -- at it's widest, 1/2":

Their second crew returned and eventually closed the gap (though, at this point, I can't recall to what degree -- I was told this gap was merely cosmetic). It's obvious that due to their installation, they also caused the back of the cabinet to separate/bow. Did this substantial separation cause permanent damage, even if the gap has since been closed?

Related to my first photo (increasing gap that Sophia and Joe attribute to racking), here are other shots of the inside of this same cabinet (15"w upper):

Same conclusion drawn?

ETA: the upper and lower gaps in the 15" cabinet are wider IRL -- hard to focus with an iPhone.

About your gaps: yes, the damage is structural, but how serious depends on how the cabinets were built. Panels can be attached by just gluing and nailing one side to another or they can put a dado all around (looks like a trough) or rabbets (looks like a step) or pocket screws. If your back panel was simply nailed to the rest of the cabinet (likely) then the gap which was caused by pulling those nails loose was "fixed" by shoving the pieces back together. Backs are not critical structural features. My 1970s cabinets didn't even have backs. Hopefully, the cabinets are secured to the wall through the framing pieces, not the back panel. Unfortunately, some of your photos make me wonder about how badly they trashed some of the framing pieces. That could be a structural issue.

The sides and bottoms are more serious in my opinion. Realize that my opinion is based on 2 semesters of cabinetry courses at the local community college. The bottom and sides are the weight bearing parts of a cabinet. If the joins are pulling apart, the integrity of the unit is compromised. Depending on the type of join, there could even be something broken inside. Your joins look to be pulled out of square just a little, but the acceptable amount is none. SP didn't build them that way, the installers damaged them, and that is damage.

"Backs are not critical structural features."

Yes and no. Production cabinet backs are usually very thin, but have structural "stretchers" or "cleats" built in. The stretchers/cleats connect to the cabinet sides and hold the cabinet to the wall. My IKEA cabinets had no back, but the stretcher/cleat holds the cabinet sides to the wall. I'll bet the manufacturer of these cabinets has very specific instructions as to where to place very specific screws into framing through the backs.

I've never taken any community college cabinet classes, but I left some fingertips on a table saw in 1979 and spent a decade in the store fixture manufacturing and installation business.

Your dealer should be ashamed of this whole thread. The workmanship of his employees is beyond sub standard. His response to your issue is also sub standard. I would have already posted the worst of these pictures on social media with his name attached. It is his issue, not Showplace's. Yet Showplaces's name is the one getting all of the bad press, and his name is no where to be found. That isn't right. If you are going to name names, you start with the ones of those actually at fault.

Be nice but persistent with the cabinet maker. It's not their fault but what you want them to do is pressure the dealer to resolve it and the best way the cabinet maker can help is to provide the dealer with replacement cabinets at a discounted cost. They shouldn't have to bail out their dealer that way but it will help make this problem go away.

Hi LWO. Showplace chooses its dealers. They bear some of the blame, and if it goes to court would absolutely be named in the suit as well. Blame is divvied out in percentages. Based on what I see here, I will never patronize either one.

Javiwa, who is the dealer, and in what city?

K, got a breather and some time to look this all over.

Javiwa, this is far beyond a little cosmetic touch up and fixing caulk. As LWO says this is an install issue, almost or maybe entirely. Very little if any is a factory problem. It is difficult for a manufacturer to justify bailing out a bad dealer install, sets a poor precedent. As is noted too often on this forum there are some less than sterling players out there. (Which is why all the pros say "who" you work with is more important that "what brand should I get") That said I sent a suggestion through my rep that was a bit radical. Can't say it would happen-I'm nobody special.

IF I were trying to fix this-

I'd take a serious look at what can be reasonably salvaged. Most if not all should be uninstalled, caulk removed, then what can be repaired should be. Then assess what can be salvaged, even some (maybe all) of the racked and slightly damaged cabinets can be taken care of BY a COMPETENT craftsman once uninstalled. Check doors and drawer alignments to see what is wrong and what just needs adjustment.

I'd replace the cabinets every place that skinny fillers were used with others that have "extended stiles" instead. That also goes for the cabinets set on an angle to each other. The way that was done is a design flaw.(goes to a "layout is NOT a design") Barring that would be to get all new fillers and attach them while the cabinet is down with glue and blocking prior to installing the cabinet. Everything should be pre-drilled, everything.

After assessing needs order parts/cabinets/replacements. Yes, you will be without cabinets for a while. Dealer should be working with the factory on an expedited order-that I know can be done.

I don't know if your dealer will do all that OR if they can do the labor properly. The installers that worked on this obviously can't. If it came down to getting an outside contractor to fix cabinets it is likely just as cost effective to replace them, labor always costs more than materials.

So sorry about this.

jakuval

I agree with eam44. When my cabinets arrived damaged, it was mostly the carriers fault. The dealer hired the carrier not Omega, but Omega carried the burden of replacing the cabinets. MasterBrand picks and chooses which lines go to which dealers and is responsible for the vetting of those dealers.

Good morning to all. I'm swamped with work this weekend, but didn't want to disappear on everyone -- you've all been so generous of your time and advice. I'm a "sleep on it" type of person. Given the scope of the more substantial issues that have gone beyond aesthetic (not that that shouldn't matter), I now feel I have a mountain ahead of me. I don't want to be rash in what I post here, so I'm taking a beat.

LWO: I sincerely hope anyone reading this thread realizes it is not a 'bash Showplace' opportunity. I was very careful not to use SP's name in the thread title, lest that ever be misinterpreted as disparaging the brand. I'm trying to be very cautious about calling anyone out on the internet. Pictures tell a thousand words. Were I to outright post the dealer's name (for now), we could get caught up in libel messiness -- I just don't want/need that right now. I just want to get my cabinets installed properly. Folks have gleaned from above that I live in the Houston area. A number of local friends and acquaintances (starting their own renovations) have already messaged/contacted me and asked for the dealer's name (which I've provided).

Showplace messaged me late yesterday, said they're looking into this already and are assessing.

ETA: Ooops, my link to the original thread didn't tale, and it's too late to edit. If anyone's interested, for clarity, [here it is[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/help-need-to-choose-kitchen-cabinets-asap-like-today-dsvw-vd~4419054).

I don't want to hijack the thread so briefly...

"MasterBrand picks and chooses which lines go to which dealers and is responsible for the vetting of those dealers."

... not so much; other than sales volume, credit rating, feet of display, and proximity to other dealers.

What a horrible installation job!!

Jawiva!!! This is beyond words to say how sorry I am for you. I remember your whole kitchen remodel, but didn’t see this thread. I remember the H-CoW though! Your countertops were a total nightmare too right? This is the worst contractor I’ve ever heard of. He should lose his license and pay your psychiatric bills, as this would have thrown me in the looney bin. Did you report him to the Licensing board? Please, please update. Tell me this got fixed by now. You poor thing!

Rebunky: I owe you a reply...I owe everyone a reply. (If you're interested, my countertop saga -- scroll down to June 2017.)

Warning: this is long, and the proverbial fat lady hasn't sung yet, sadly. I may need to split this into several posts in case Houzz limits me out. I'm going by memory and emails, so am hoping I'm piecing this together with some semblance of clarity. Thanks for your patience.

(to be continued...sorry: Houzz isn't cooperating)

In early February 2017, SK from SP home office contacted me immediately. This would be a challenge as SP is not accustomed to working directly with the customer/homeowner, but they'd do what they could to make this right. It was determined I would be working with original regional SP sales rep SM.

Feb. 10-15: SM lined up another local installer P to finish the work. P arrived, and the first thing he said after 'hello' was: I see nothing wrong in this kitchen. SM asked me to go over my punch list (which I assumed -- wrongly, as it turns out -- would already have been done). I started by saying my primary concern was of a structural nature (i.e., that the original cabs were installed using drywall screws, and I was concerned they might snap over time). P proceeded to tell me how many decades he'd been installing cabs with drywall screws, that he didn't appreciate my disrespecting the original installer's workmanship; and if I had a problem with P using drywall screws (cuz that's what he was gonna use!), then we were done. Buh-bye, Pete. He stormed out the door, leaving SM and me incredulous and shell-shocked. SM walked the kitchen with me, itemizing everything that needed to be done. All new uppers would be ordered for eventual replacement.

April 3-5: Five replacement cabs delivered to the house (by original dealer, who's still in the picture at this point). New installer J (from out-of-area 100 miles away) arrives and, upon opening boxes and inspecting cabs, immediately finds QC issues: worse workmanship than what we already had on existing cabinets -- glue seeping through seams, caked with dust/sawdust; several cabs badly over-sprayed with black specks of stain; intertior veneer panels missing; badly warped shelves; edge-band issues). J refused to do the work, saying he couldn't in good conscience install the replacement cabinets.

(continued)

(cont'd)

At this point, MK (SP Mgr Customer Relations) steps in. MK is extremely apologetic and embarrassed. He says new cabinets will be ordered; but this time, they'll be personally, separately inspected by VP of manufacturing (?) and given a personal stamp of approval before they ship (to the original dealer). Estimated delivery by original dealer: end of April. I trade a few emails w/ original dealer re: delivery, but then he goes AWOL. SM needs to intervene and follow-up re: delivery date to my house. New cabs don't arrive at my house until May 18, at which time a swap is made for the first set of replacement cabs.

SM says I should inspect everything before he schedules installer J again. (OK, wow, I think to myself: So, this is on me, now...OK. No other option, but what exactly am I looking for? a la you don't know what you don't know.)

In case any of you haven't had to do this yourself, these cabinets are extremely bulky/heavy. (The over-fridge cab measures 39"w x 23"h.) Space is tight at the house, where the cabs were dropped off, so this was no easy task. I uncrated all the cabinets and inspected as best I could. All of this happened the night before I'm headed out of town for my sons' college grad weekend...timing was not great, but I was doing 'my part'. Uh oh...bad news: the over-fridge cab is the wrong size (I wasn't even going to measure the cabs, but something in my head told me I should) -- 36" vs 39". SP will process a replacement (which arrives June 5).

(cont'd)

Early June: Installer J is no longer available.

June 27-29: New installer V completes most of the work, which generally started off OK. (I think he expected it to be a one-day job; but removing the original cabs was more difficult that he expected, and I think he was frustrated to have to return a second day.) He left us with an original toe-kick gap that he said cannot be remedied 'due to the way it was originally installed':

Disappointing, but what else do you do when someone says that's the best they can do?

Also, he said nothing could be done to make the ugly caulk-and-touchup job less ugly. And despite the instructions (punch list) to completely replace both island end panels (due to original cracking/bulging/chipping), and despite SP providing the extra end panels for full replacement, he'd left the old ones on. We brought this to his attention, and he rather begrudgingly said he'd install the new ones if we insisted. I don't know why he was resistant to just replacing them as intended and directed.

(cont'd)

On what was supposed to be the final day, V's wife did the wax-crayon touch-up. On the doors, she filled divots that she said bothered her, then buffed/sanded (very vigorously, I must say, with a gray scrubby that looked like steel wool...but wasn't), so we'd end up with a uniform, matte finish. The next morning, to my shock, the abraded areas were very apparent and shiny...my heart just sank:

A touch-up kit was ordered, and I expressed my fear that the resulting finish might not look 'factory original'. V returned days later to fix the scrubbed areas, but it didn't look right at all. I thanked him for the effort, but I could still see the abraded areas that now also showed a frosty over-spray. He said: I don't see what you're seeing. When I pointed out the frosty areas, he told me that's how a door is supposed to look after it's been touched up.

Rather than order two more doors (which SM offered to do) and risk a color mismatch (different dye lots and all), I had them bring back the original doors that they'd taken back to their shop, and just re-hang those.

ETA: BTW, I'm posting these latest pics to show everyone this is not all just in my head, that I'm too picky, it's my fault, etc. I was disappointed at how things ended, as V seemed a very experienced, meticulous craftsman, as evidenced by a couple of things he noticed and improved upon when he first arrived. (After he left, I noticed he actually didn't end up replacing one of the island end panels with a new one after all.) I was ready to be done and move on with life once again...I just had to be done.

Or, so I thought. (See below.)

(cont'd...sorry)

Once work/life settled down, I was going to post a follow-up and put a period on this phase of my life...and to not leaving everything hanging about Showplace, for the benefit of future potential customers. To say this all has taken a great mental toll on me is not an exaggeration. Throughout all of this, Showplace and their home office folks tried to handle this very quickly and in as hands-on and friendly a manner as possible...at every turn. I thank them for that. << I hope that didn't sound patronizing, as it isn't meant to be. They DO mean well.

However, the pieces just aren't in place to handle such a situation (i.e., manufacturer dealing directly with a homeowner). My only resource (AKA boots on the ground) was SM, the regional rep. Not to take anything away from SM, but his job is that of a salesperson who is the liaison between dealer and SP. He has no working relationship with his area dealers' installers, yet it was his task to find a capable installer to finish the job. What made this already-difficult situation even more so is that I had to 'supervise' the installers once they showed up at my doorstep.

Fast forward to today. DH and I are getting ready to install the UCLs, so I peeked under the cabs to recon. OMG, I couldn't believe my eyes this morning. These cabinets, too, have been over-sprayed/speckled with stain droplets. It's mostly on the underside of the exterior and lower portions of the interior side panels, and I guess I missed those when I did my quicky inspection in May.

Click pics to enlarge.

(cont'd)

I didn't think to completely flip over the cabinets (nor did I have the space nor energy, frankly) and do a full inspection. Had I noticed then, I would not have proceeded with the final installation. However, need it have been on me to do a binding field inspection?

I'm sure SP will receive email notification of today's follow-up. This isn't how I wanted them to hear about this latest glitch, though. But potential customers need to see such posts as they research for their own kitchens. This was me, not long ago, and it was because of the positive remarks about SP that steered me towards them in the first place. This will have been the second set of cabinets that have arrived, over-sprayed. (SP: I'll email you directly later this week, unless you get in touch with me first.)

Regarding the dealer who originally installed the cabinets: Designer Kitchen & Bath -- formerly located in Stafford, TX, but it appears they've since moved to a different address in Houston.

GW forum: now what? How to proceed? My nightmare continues, and I'm rather beside myself right now. I haven't even had a chance to break the news to DH yet.

Also, do me a favor? Please open your cupboards and snap a pic or two. Do you have any gaps where interior walls/surfaces of the cabinet meet? I'm told gapping is to be expected. TIA.

The end, for now.

My neighbor behind me and across the street installed SP cabinets. I'm glad I instead went with cabinets from the Mennonites.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

I have a few of my cabinets installed and I'll take a picture tomorrow of their interiors. I don't recall any gapping.

I am so sorry to read about this frustrating situation and hope you find satisfactory resolution.

I have never seen the types of interior gaps you've shown here - but I am accustomed to dado/rabbet joinery. I've seen up to a 1/32" gap on the edge of the dados (only when the dado was cut slightly too wide, which is due to poor set-up during manufacturing and NOT due to installation issues). If I saw gaps opening between pieces of the cabinet carcase during installation, I would send the box back to the cabinetmaker for repair or replacement - strength has already been compromised at that point.

Drywall screws do not have a lot of shear strength. Which means that they can hold a cabinet in place (i.e., a base cabinet on shims that just needs an attachment), but are not a good choice for supporting weight (i.e., hanging cabinets). Also, they typically have threads throughout their entire length - which makes them a bad choice for joining two cabinets together. To join cabinets together, the best choice is wood screws with threads that do not extend the entire length of the screw. Thus, the threads are only holding the piece furthest from the screw head, and they "pull" that piece toward the screw head (and thus toward the piece through which you predrilled your hole) as the screw is tightened.

No gaps anywhere, not at the sides, back, or underneath. These are InnerMost cabs, which are no longer available. They were an Elkay product sold through HD.

Over the MW

Thanks to you all for replying, cpartist, salex and suzanne_sl. As hokey as this sounds, it really helps to not have a feeling of being alone through all of this. I showed DH the latest development this evening, and he silently just shook his head. We can't even get on with such a simple (yet gratifying) step as hooking up our UCL LEDs.

cpartist: It'd be interesting to know what led your neighbors to choose Showplace, which is sold at a 'value' price point while allowing semi-custom choices. This is my first and last kitchen reno: I don't have anything else to compare with regarding price, value, etc. In the expansive world that is cabinets, I'm trying to figure out what the minimum benchmarks/expectations are for a value line. This is not to say I'm complaining about what we paid: if I balked at the price, I would have expressed this at the outset. It's night time now, but I'll also post tomorrow a few pics of the current cabinet interiors.

salex: Thanks so much for reinforcing all the research I've done about screws, threads, etc. Regarding pre-drilled holes, I had to laugh (in a maniacal way, at this point): DH is the only person in three years (of folks who've held a drill in this kitchen) who as EVER pre-drilled a hole. I completely understand folks are working by the hour, time is money, etc., and they're willing to roll the dice when NOT pre-drilling; but the cracks and chips in the wood tell the tale.

suzanne: Thanks for taking the time to post your pics. Not knowing exactly how cabinets are constructed, I don't want to automatically conclude that gaps are inherently bad (except for the one I posted Feb. 23/9:26 a.m. - above fridge).

Javiwa, NO WORDS, JUST NO WORDS.....

Okay a few words... My heart more then aches, it has stabbing heart attack pains for you!

I thank you very much for responding in detail about your experience because it may save the next person dealing with SHOWPLACE. You must be soooo beyond done, but please I encourage you to see this through. It just is so wrong that I’d hate to see you compromise from sheer exhaustion.

SHOWPLACE, if you are reading this thread, shame on you! Make this right!!! Your rep is on the line as many on GW will research your cabinets and read this. I’ll bump this thread any time I hear of someone using SHOWPLACE cabinets. Give her a new kitchen and compensation for her endless nightmare!

Thanks as always for your words of support, rebunky. I'll get to our backsplash yet! Every time I step into my kitchen (which is tons every day), I try to suppress the negativity; but the upset never goes away. At best, I'm numb. And all of this before yesterday's discovery.

I have most of my stuff put away in the uppers already, so I didn't want to go through and pull everything out (yet again). However, the following are representative of the gapping (that I was told wasn't uncommon and was perfectly acceptable). The first five pics are from the 39" over-fridge cab. For scale, I can fit 2 to 3, even 4 playing cards into these crevices. Click to enlarge.

Lower left, front corner:

Upper left, front corner:

Lower right, front corner:

Upper right:

Lower right, rear:

And this is the lower bottom portion of a 15" cabinet -- the bottom edge is rather raggedly cut:

When I was assured that all cabinets have gaps here and there, who was I to argue? I had no frame of reference. SP sent replacement shelves for the ones that had edge-band issues. At least one of the shelves is chipped on the end (similar to the last photo below...possible indication of using old blades?). But I did so want to be done with this, I didn't want to be nit picky about small gaps and frayed edges: my brain kept telling me this is to be expected with a value line. Am I wrong, then?

The over-spray issue, though, is unacceptable to me.

Gaps? No. I have IKEA wall cabinets that have been installed THREE times in assorted laundry rooms and have a cardboard-ish back. No gaps!

I have to admit that the overspray on the undersides wouldn't be a big deal for me because they aren't finished anyway. On the insides of the cabinets though...looks like fly specks. I'd be peeved by that. But it's nothing compared to the rest of it.

:(

Just to follow up, I wrote to the Showplace higher-ups who'd been handling my issues in early January, but all I received was an out-of-office reply. Have not otherwise received a reply.

So sorry for all your troubles with this reno, Javiwa. I hope it is all resolved soon - this has dragged on for so long. :(

Thanks for the supportive thoughts, cyc2001 -- they really do help. Fatigue has taken hold. This is not right at all, but the most I have energy to do at this point is to post my pics and warn folks away: they can judge for themselves as they shop companies for their renos.