I'd like the second configuration.

I’d forsure do the first layout.

I prefer the first one too

I like the first, but you need a prep sink on that island because the fridge is way too far from the sink otherwise.

Thanks. Where would you place that prep sink? The island is the only place we really have some wide drawers and placing a prep would mean sacrificing those drawers…:

Could you please post a larger version of the Kitchen and identify what each item is & the size?

Is your sink really 66" wide and/or 2 sinks (it looks like two in the "picture" of the Kitchen)? If so, could you please explain why?

Do you really need two DWs?

Is this supposed to be a Kosher kitchen?

Is that a table where it says "Family Room"? If so, do you really need two forms of seating so close to each other?

It looks like you have a Dining Room as well, is that correct?

Unless you have very long arms, your island should not be any deeper than 60". Most people can easily reach no more than 30" without straining, so anything deeper will be difficult to clean (reaching the middle of the island).

Keep in mind the following for seating at an island (or peninsula):

• Each seat needs a minimum of 24" of linear space. So, to seat four people, your island will need to be at least 8' wide (96").
• The minimum recommended seating overhang for short to average height people is 15" -- after accounting for any doors or decorative end panels on the cabinets under the overhang. (If you are a tall family, an 18" overhang would be better.)
• For cabinets under a seating overhang, I would not go any deeper than 18", and 12" to 15" would be better. Why? Because you have to squat/lean over & under to reach things inside a cabinet under an overhang and you will have trouble reaching into the depths of a cabinet much more than 15" or so deep. No drawer in the top half of those cabinets as well as the overhang will block access to the drawers from the top.

Your island would be better as:

1.5" overhang in the front

+ 24"D cabinets

+ 15"D cabinets facing under the overhang

+ 1" for the cabinet doors (doors & drawer fronts are not included in cabinet measurements & they stick out another 1" or so from the front of the cabinets)

+ 15" overhang

========

56.5"

When considering the width of your island, be careful not to make the aisles around the island too shallow. Plan for 48-inch aisles around the three non-seating sides and 60" b/w the seating side and the table in the "Family Room". (Aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest -- counter overhangs, appliance handles, etc. They are not measured to/from cabinets because, as I mentioned above, cabinet doors & drawer fronts are not included in the depths of cabinets. 24" is the depth of the cabinet box only, not the doors/drawer fronts. Counter overhangs aren't included in cabinet measurements either.)

I like plan one, really nice.

Other comments...you do not have any landing space next to the refrigerator or within 48" in front of the refrigerator.

Is that a "Pantry Door" I see on the Dining Room side of the refrigerator? If so, does that mean you have a walk-in pantry? If so, consider eliminating the wide pantry cabinet and replacing it with a counter + cabinets -- maybe put the MW there as well and make it a "Snack/Coffee Center"?

For sinks, consider eliminating one of the sinks under the window and, instead, putting a second sink in the island so you don't have such an excessive distance b/w your Prep Zone and refrigerator. A successful Prep Zone needs:

• Direct water access
• Sufficient prep counterspace adjacent to the water source (at least 36" (but 42" to 48" is better))
• To be near the range (either across from it or next to it with the prep counterspace between the water source and range.

Additionally, there should be no more than 9' between major work zones & appliances. So, no more than 9' from the refrigerator to the sink, from the sink to the range, and from the range to the refrigerator.

Buehl. Thanks for the responses. I’ve seen your comments elsewhere. Always helpful. Thanks for giving of your time so generously.

In response to some of your points:

Yes. This is a kosher kitchen. I’ve designed in 2 separate sinks each 30” with 6” between. Have thought to make these 27” (which would generate around 14” between with the granite overhanging each sink by 1” + the 12” space). Still a bit short of the recommended 18” but I’m even reluctant to go down to 27” on the sinks. Jumping a sink to the island would allow proper spacing and room for two large sinks….but…a sink on the island is not ideal. I’ve designed out this option as well (and cooktop in island version) which I will share with the thread. My wife does prefer a clean island. Two sinks under the window seems to have a nice symmetry and we have a good size yard and decent view. The window is 67” wide which is perfect for the two sinks and spacing.

Two dishwashers is a must.

Seating at the island is for 4 or maybe 3 under the current setup. Our family is (soon to be) 6. The island is more for quick breakfast and conversation with my wife while she cooks. It’s not for regular eating at. Though I have tried to design a complete table into the island which would leave the family room completely usable for other things. I have not been successful and I’m not sure this is the best move anyhow.

We do have a dining room which will be used often on weekends and it is necessary and more formal than kitchen/family room. Not great for kids breakfasts / nightly dinners. Not at this point at least.

More to follow….

As for island size, because of all the appliances and necessity to have double storage (separate dairy and meat dishes and pots) we do need to maximize our space. Shrining the island reduces storage and we lose the under-counter subzero (which we own). I agree the depth of the cabinets under the overhangs are less accessible at 24” deep, they still are accessible and can be handy to store less used items like large cake platters etc.

I’ve seen a number of pictures on Houzz of similar sized islands. We could do 60” but that would reduce eating overhand in this case to around 10.5”. Doable but I think those jumbo slabs come in at 63”? Why not just use it?

As for the fridge landing...

Our fridge opens with the door swing towards the family room. A landing adjacent to the the fridge would require a walk around. Swapping the two subzeros would mean the handles would be on the outside and not sure how that looks. Also not sure on technical feasibility. MORE critically however, the right side pantry is our only pantry in the room. The left side pantry is indeed a doorway to a semi 'walk in' pantry but this is just some room under the staircase (two feet walk thru then 64" ceiling height and deep shelving with large floor area for access to crawl space). Good for costco storage / large items but less good for daily food storage and use. The dream plan is to move the staircase altogether and this would create a 6X9 walk in pantry BUT this is not in the cards at the moment.

We are closing off an entryway into the kitchen to fit the right side pantry and opening up instead the walkway through the family room opposite the steps. I felt like this was the optimal move as it gave the backwall symmetry and much needed additional storage space.

It's 5' 7" from fridge to island. It's 3' 6" from island to sinks with 3" we can get back by pushing the sinks back into a straightline with the rest of the wall (4' 1" on range side). We could also push the island down or increase its size by 9" without hitting the walkway. It will however go past the where the double oven is and I was trying to contrain the island within the 'L' zone. Maybe that's not necessary.

Hopefully these close ups are a litte more clear. Corner cabinet is blind pull out.

Some additional close ups