Lower Cabinet Drawers Too Wide?

3 years ago

last modified: 3 years ago

I’m in the final stages of designing our kitchen in our new build, and I’d like to add as many drawers in the lower cabinets as possible. I asked my kitchen designer to change the cabinets on either side of the range (currently with 2 rolling shelves inside) to 2 deep drawers instead.

Unfortunately, these drawers would be 41.5” wide, and I plan to store baking dishes and pots and pans in them, so that presents some complications. Here are our options according to our KD:

“1) We can do a 3-drawer base with cabinets that are 41.5” wide. The 3-drawer base is available up to 42" wide.

2) We can do four 2-drawer cabinets as you mentioned. I would recommend doing a standard 21" wide cabinet and a customized 20.5" cabinet on each side. I don't think you'll see the .5" difference in the two cabinets, and it would save some money.

3) Since we're going to be customizing the width of the drawer bases anyway, we could do a 41.5" cabinet with two stacks of 2-drawer cabinets... essentially what you described, just as one cabinet box.

"The 2-drawer bases are available with heavy duty drawer guides that will carry 125 lb. dynamic load. However at approx. 21" wide cabinets, you would have 16.5" of interior drawer width.”

OP again. What would you do? Which size of drawers would be most functional? I have 5 children who like to be in the kitchen, so this beautiful space is going to get lots of hard love!

Featured Answer

chispa

3 years ago

@Barefoot Nurse, don't take any of the forceful feedback personally. People here mean well and want to help, but the final decision is what works for you and your family. When I read some of the people describe how a stranger they don't know should be working in the kitchen, I just roll my eyes, because I would never, and have never, worked in a kitchen in that way. In my view a kitchen can be too small, but never too large! Maybe trauma from living in some small city apartments in my younger years ;-) . I have no issues walking a few steps around an island to get to my fridge and don't consider it a mistake. I actually moved the fridge further away, because it was the only way I could get a bigger fridge and freezer to fit in the remodel. The kitchen worked great for our family.

So take all the advice and work through it in your mind, but if someone else's idea of a perfect layout doesn't work for you, then move on and do what will work for you.

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Comments (56)

cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Your island is a barrier to your sink from your fridge and will be a problem. When we cook, we first take food out of the fridge, then move it to the sink, prep between sink and cooktop and then move it to the cooktop to cook the food. And we try and do that without crossing zones. You'll be crossing the cooking zone too.

Another problem is your aisle is way too small. If you're a single cook with no one helping in the kitchen, minimum size between island countertop edge and perimeter countertop edge is 42" and that doesn't take into account things like the handle of the microwave and/or stove handle sticking out.

Then you have 35" between the sink and the island. I don't know where you are, but code in my jurisdiction says that the absolute minimum clearance is 36" and that is not again good. As with the other aisles, 42" is minimum for 1 cook. 48" is minimum for 2 cooks or more.

And you don't need to center the island on the cooktop. Trust me no one will notice it unless they stand dead center behind the island all the time.
AnnKH
3 years ago
Have you done a storage plan yet? What do you intend to put in each of the cabinets and drawers? Making a plan - which includes measuring your pots and pans, small appliances, etc will help you determine exactly what kind of storage you need.

Specifically, I'm wondering what you will put in the corner susan (make sure it's a super susan, not a lazy one). The DW seems a long way from any place to put dishes. Your 12" cabinet is perfect for cutting boards and cookie sheets.
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Trica, I'd do the 6/12/12 for sure, if not even another 6/6/6/12 ... Definitely not a 15/15' especially since you have a pantry for tall appliance.pot storage. A little story for you. Back in the year 2000 my father re-did his kitchen. He must have been a visionary, lol, because he put in all drawers even though he'd never heard of it being done before, he just figured it was more functional and as he was getting older stooping into cabinets wasn't as easy for him as it once as. Anyway, he did the standard pot drawer stacks (6/12/12) throughout and he LOVED his new kitchen. About a year later, his buddy on the next street over redid his kitchen and used the same company my dad did. Except his buddy had all 6/6/6/12 stacks in his. Both my dad and his buddy were widowers who did cook for themselves and enjoyed having the odd dinner party, but neither one of them had near enough big things to out into all those deep drawers. Once you have 4 stacks, that's 8 deep drawers, and my dad was in envy of his friend's kitchen every time he rummaged in his deep drawers to gout a bowl that was at the bottom of a big stack, or a pan that was in the middle. Long story short, he had the cabinet company back and rhey retrofitted the middle 12-inch drawers in every stack to be two 6-inches. He was happier than a kid in a candy store then, and his favorite drawer was where he kept his pans. He loved the easy of access to just grab his go-to pan instead of having to fish it out from the stack. He always pulled it out with a little bit of a flourish if anyone was there to see him do it, lol. Anyway, I learned from that also also when the 6/6/6/12 route more often than not. And the pan drawer even gives that same little kick. I wish he was still alive to see me pull it out with same same flourish he did, and to tell him much much in inspired me. :) Here is my pan drawer: Still think of dad every time I grab a pan or bowl. My go-to pan lays by itself so it's eeasy to access and I don't have to feel guilty about wasting space because the drawer above it is made full use of, even better use than I'd have had from a singe large drawer. Love having my go-to bowls at hand without unstacking them too. Less often used larger bowls and baking dishes are stored in the deeper 12" bottom drawer of another stack. Love this setup. I may only work with frameless where there's slight more depth for the pan and bowl drawer. Bottom line, go as narrow as you think will best accommodate all your storage needs without excessive unstacking and restocking. That definitely not 15/15 in your case, and you may even think about an ezra 6/6/6/12 if you already have a 6/12/12. Breezy really had the best suggestions which is to plan out all your storage first and thnk about what you want to keep where and then try it with some measurements. Good luck!
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Sorry for the unintentional mystery everyone! I have been clearing my counters and taking pictures to try to be helpful on several threads on GW and got tired of it, so I figured what the heck, I'm actually living here, right! Anyway, my marble island is in it's 12 month of use and was etched practically on day one, and weekly since then. After my daughter shook the Tropicana OJ jug (the one that USED to be 64 oz that they redesigned with a fancy flip lid that isn't easy for kids to get to fully close) and OJ flew all over the island, I gave up with babying and use it almost without care. Cheeseburgers were on the menu last night. Anyway, you who guessed cheese are right; it is grated cheddar. The plate is one of Villeroy & Boch "Design Naif" patter. There actually isn't anything on it but the painted scene. This pattern is actually a quaint set of six different scenes on each plate. I'll show you a pic with all 6 scenes to satisfy any curiosity. On the black meat tray is some unused raw burger meat that I ended up making my dogs do tricks for after dinner. There are a couple knives and, yes, a tape measure since I was getting info to answer someone's question about the dimensions of something on my island. To the right you see some thin slices of bread that I threw out. I used Zomick's challah rolls for our burger buns and they are a bit high. To make them easier for my son to eat a burger in, and to make them slightly less carb-ful for myself and husband, I sliced out the middle. To the right of that is what's left of a large, delicious tomoato that I made a sliced tom/mozz/basil salad with. I know, horrifying that a cut tomato would be on my marble. However, we're planning to have the island honed this summer due to all the etching it has received, so it sort of doesn't matter too much. Sorry for the hijacking this thread!!!! OP - a couple of things. First, RH often has sales. If you can wait it will be well worth it! Second, buy MANY more pieces of hardware than you think you will need. Lucky for me that there is a RH store near me bc I kept having to go back, at least 5 times, to get more. I counted with my installer, three times, before shopping and bought one extra of each. Some went missing, some were defective, a few were the wrong finish and labled wrong - stuff happens. The good thing about RH is that they have a wonderful return policy. The bad thing about possibly less expensive other retailers, especially online retailers, is that they may only give store credit or may charge a restocking fee, plus online you have to pay shipping to make a return. Also, buy a sample of whatever you are leaning toward before committing fully. Sometimes what you see and what you hold and feel are two different things. Last, yes RH was a bit expensive, although I saw much more expensive as well. But, they had the variety of sizes I wanted and they feel wonderful and are very well made. FWIW, I found some bin pulls on ebay that worked fine for a mudroom bench we made. Up close they are relatively a bit cheap looking, but they are functional and look fine from a distance. Best of luck to you!!! Feel free to ask any questions if I can be helpful! Time for me to payback GW for all the amazing help I found here!
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So you keep asking what other people like, but that is really irrelevant to what will work best for YOU. The correct size of drawers or cabinets depends on what YOU will put there - which might not be what I would put there. Kind of like saying "should I get a sports car or a minivan?", without telling us whether or not you're hauling kids and their cellos to music lessons. You need to go through a whole day in your kitchen - 3 meals, with some baking thrown in - to decide what needs to go where. Items should go near their point of use: prep area has knives, cutting boards, colanders, trash; cooking area has pots and pans, utensils, spices, potholders; baking area has dry goods, bowls, measuring cups; cleanup area has dishwasher, dishes, flatware. Somewhere you need food storage containers, bags and wraps, towels, small appliances, large stock pot, cookie sheets, baking dishes. Once you've determined WHERE things will go, then you evaluate your own stuff, to decide how much space you need. Use tape to measure out the interior of a 24 or 30" cabinet or drawer, and put your things in that space. Don't forget to determine how deep a drawer needs to be - I have cake pans and pie tins on their sides in a drawer, so that drawer needs to be pretty deep. The utensil pullout that decoenthusiaste posted would drive me nuts! I have my utensils in a drawer, with dividers. I can't stand rooting around in a jumble for what I need. What works best for deco would definitely not work for me. Now, going back to your question! After you've measured all your stuff and decided where it will go, you may have a pretty good idea about what size works best. Do you need 12" more pantry space, or counter space? Also think about getting something out of the uppers on each side of the stove. If one of those cabinets has spices or oils, a double door means you have to go around the door to get what you need; a single door is much more convenient.
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David Cary
3 years ago
Option #1 is fine.

The rest of you kitchen appears to be a hot mess.

That a KD drew your elevation that way - I mean without drawers next to the range - makes them incompetent right away. In 2020, in a high end custom kitchen, that is absolutely ridiculous. Particularly in the setting of limited uppers.

I imagine making frozen cauliflower rice for a stirfry. Take from freezer, run around kids doing homework to the sink to add a splash of water (ok - not needed but usually for broccoli for example), press microwave button, move to the side, count to 3, put bowl in microwave, count to 3 while closing. Then add to cooktop. Imagine if kid is helping to do that. How does that stirfry go while the drawer is opening or closing.

Next I imagine where my glasses are going. In that awkward corner upper? No probably the other upper. Maybe in an island drawer? Great - kids getting in my way while cooking. Now I imagine emptying the dishwasher....

All with 5 kids?!?

I have this absolutely wonderful setup, where my entire day to day dishes are pivot distance from the dishwasher. Which is pivot distance from the fridge.

Ok - sorry for the rant. But this is my overall thinking. Lots of windows in a kitchen is great and all but certainly less practical. Your kitchen is too small for that many people and that many windows to be practical. If you have the money, why would you want to "get by" with 36 inches of fridge freezer for what is presumably 7 people?
suezbell
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
First, windows by your stove top: bold ... or you don't fry or don't mind cleaning windows.

Consider what you want to store in the drawers.

You could choose a deeper and/or narrower drawer plus a vertical drawer or just a vertical cabinet sized for your cookie sheets, pizza pans -- thin wide baking pans.

Instead of four more shallow drawers (left) you could keep the top two thin ones (to match the ones to the right), but then combine the lower left two drawers to create one deep drawer.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
OP here. Thanks for all the wisdom so far! I feel much more comfortable going with Option 1 and big drawers. I’m sure I’ll appreciate them.

There is a lot of beautiful, intentional symmetry going on in this kitchen, so I hesitate to off-center the island. However, I appreciate the thoughts about the aisle widths.

All the everyday dishes, silverware, and glasses will be stored in large drawers on the left side of the sink, near the dishwasher. My kids will be taking care of those so I want the dishes stored low and accessible.

FWIW, I’ve been preparing meals for my family 3xs/day in a 15x7’ kitchen (yes, you read that right) in 1400 sq ft house, so this is new build unbelievable upgrade in every way. Yes, there will still be inconveniences with certain types of food prep... but I have thought long and hard about them, and the pros in this overall design far outweigh the cons for us.
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Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
3 years ago
I agree with option #1 also. Having those wide drawers is such a practical feature for storing pots and pans. I love your range wall with the windows--I have the same setup and it's wonderful. Makes the kitchen look airy and open, and I those windows are no dirtier than any other windows in the kitchen.

I would consider getting a larger refrigerator, maybe a 42" or 48" side by side, if you have 5 children. And move the microwave so it's not directly opposite the range.
Trem Wills
3 years ago
The island is symmetrical to the windows yes which make sense if you need symmetry. But you don’t need to center the microwave. No one would see that except you. And for safety reasons it doesn’t make sense. I have three kids and a bad set up right now so I am constantly watching over my shoulder when boiling or frying in case someone slips in behind me to grab a snack or drink. I’d be worried with the microwave in that location. And I can appreciate you having to get creative due to size. My kitchen is 10 x 16 so I know there are challenges. Good luck!
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I love the windows beside the range hood! I'd prefer the wider drawers, too--wide drawers can always be divided, and storage space won't be lost to the extra set of drawer glides.

As for the layout, I couldn't agree more with cpartist, AnnKH, and David Cary. I find it helps to diagram the prep path, to understand how functional or dysfunctional a layout is. The yellow line is the direct path between the fridge and prep area, but of course you have to walk around the island (green line). The NKBA recommends that the line between two points in the prep triangle not intersect an island by more than 12". Plus one of the island seats will be in conflict with the open fridge door, and the door on the left might not open far enough to pull out bins or crispers for cleaning.

If this is your dream layout, go for it, as long as you are aware of the problems.

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Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, Mama Goose! I’m going to discuss this with my interior designer and KD designer again, but one important thing is that we’ve added a 12” cabinet beside the fridge so we can now open both French doors fully.

Also we have a second fridge and freezer in the garage, for all who are concerned about fridge space with 5 kids. :)
Cherie
3 years ago
I’m for Option 1 too!

I have the same layout and almost the same dimensions (192” / 125”) but my fridge is directly across the pantry. I had a really hard deciding if I wanted to center my island with the range and having uneven aisles or having the island off centered with 48” aisles because I wanted symmetry. I met a KD who gently broke it to me that it’s not possible with an L shaped kitchen. It’s not symmetrical to begin with and I had to compromise something. She suggested picking a design that didn’t draw the eye to the imbalance since the range wall was my focal point. Uneven aisles would be more noticeable than on off-centered island from across the room.

What room does your kitchen open into? Your uneven aisle widths may be very noticeable from the across the room and take the eyes away from the range wall. Can you ask the installers to lay out the island cabinets with a cardboard island overhang before you pick the final location?

Also, have you considered swapping your pantry and fridge and placing the microwave in the new pantry location? Or adding a prep sink to the right of the range? You’ll lose the symmetrical cabinets drawers but the counter lengths are the same and cabinets will be blocked by the island.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
OP again. Thanks for all this advice, everyone! After reading the comments and thinking a lot about it, I am ready to move the island off center from the range to allow for better work flow and larger aisles.

However, what to do about pendants over the island? We have the added complication that we’ve got 6 wide beams in our ceiling and 2 of them are lined up beautifully on either side of the range hood. It would be nice to have pendants coming out of the beams, perfectly centered on either side of the range, but there’s no way to do that and center them on the island too.

What would you do? Forget trying to line up the range + pendants + island and just focus on lining up the pendants and the island, and stop trying to also align them with the range and beams?

Or do one pendant (maybe a linear island chandelier) over the island? I don’t love this because I’ll already have a linear pendant over the nearby dining table.

Or have my builder move the beams? (They’re just roughed in so would be a pain and cost me but we’re still on the studs and electrical wiring stage.) I don’t love this idea either, honestly, because I think the beams should line up with the range, even if the island (and therefore the pendants) don’t.

Thankfully we’ll never look at the kitchen straight on, unless we climb up and sit in the middle of the dining room table. We’ll always approach it from an angle, so the centering of the range and island may not be too significant in the end.

Thoughts? TIA!
chispa
3 years ago
I think you just realized the truth about perfect symmetry in a 3-dimensional space ... sometimes it is a waste to strive for perfect symmetry that will only be noticed when someone stands in that one perfect 12" x 12" spot in your home!

The fact that you don't have a counter run on one side is what really throws off any symmetry. Your range might be centered on the beams, but part of your view on the right is obstructed by your cabinet run, so the room is going to feel asymmetrical in spite of you trying to make everything else line up.
decoenthusiaste
3 years ago
Don't forget some pullouts for utensils. If you want smaller drawers, then a skinny one of these on either side of the range would balance the symmetry and let you install smaller drawers. Wider drawers full of heavy pots and pans might not be so desirable down the road, if this is your "forever" home." I wouldn't want herbs, spices or oils that close to the range, but for utensils it would be great. Personally, I'd prefer an induction cooktop (you can store anything beside and have drawers under it) and a stacking oven and micro where the fridge is, moving that fridge closer to the sink. Remember Ice - Water - Stone - Fire! Also consider moving the DW to the left of the sink and the dish and silver drawer to the right (I presume the dining table to be set is through the wide opening.)
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mdlang
3 years ago
Lots of great thoughts here. I too agree that the symmetry, while nearly perfect on the back wall, doesn't really compute when you add the rest of the 3 dimensional items like the island, lights etc. Yes, you'll maybe notice those perfect lines from one spot but you'll REALLY notice how tight the isles are when you have multiple cooks in the kitchen. I also agree with decoethusiaste above about the pullouts beside the range. YES, do have big drawers, but there are other things that also need to be close like the spices and cooking utensils which work great in a thin pullout. Have fun! It's going to be a beautiful space!
houssaon
3 years ago
I have a cabinet like the one shown on your elevation that open to tow adjustable sliding drawers. Similar to this but no divider, so they are very wide. I also thin the sides are just a bit taller.
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Cheryl Hannebauer
3 years ago
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biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Just wanted to echo what @cpartist and @David Cary said about the order of operations. My kitchen is almost exactly the same size as yours and has the exact same layout, with the fridge and sink opposite each other and the range on the long wall between them. I HATE IT. I am forever taking vegetables out of the fridge, walking around the island to wash them, then walking back to my prep area to chop. Soooooo inefficient. If my husband happens to be in the kitchen, he is always in my way because I have to cross zones constantly.

I have a thread going about my potential remodel that you might want to take a look at - it could give you some ideas. At the very least, I would consider switching the position of your sink and range in this kitchen (and definitely moving the island to give yourself more than 35" on the one side!).

My kitchen thread:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6019643/thinking-seriously-about-a-kitchen-remodel-layout-advice-needed#26203873
roccouple
3 years ago
Swapping the sink and range would help a lot. No windows on the range wall and all windows on the sink is possible if you wanted that. Would give you more storage. Or a galley or u shape peninsula kitchen could work. A peninsula would give you more seating.
cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Can you post your full floor plan? There are a couple of ways around those beams. One might be ending the beams before the kitchen by putting some sort of visual separation between kitchen and the rest of the space. By posting your full floor plan, I’m guessing there is a much better layout

As for your comment that it’s better than what you have now? You are spending 6 figures of your hard earned money. Why would you settle just for better when you can instead have best?
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks for the thoughts on switching the range and the sink! The windows are in, though, and I have a beautiful trio of casement windows over my sink, so there’s no switching range and sink anymore.

I stood in the roughed-in kitchen yesterday, and it was easy to imagine cooking with the cabinets and island marked out on the floor. I could pretend to take stuff out of the fridge, pivot to place it on the island, take dry goods out of the pantry and put it on the island, and then move to the island to pull out tools (knife drawer, cutting board drawer, pull out trash) to prep on the island. Then I’ll pivot to cook. It doesn’t seem too terrible of a set-up to me. I have a food storage zone (pantry and fridge), prep zone (island and near sink), cooking zone (range), and clean up and dishes storage range (sink and surrounding cabinetry).

As for water access on the fridge side of the kitchen, I can’t add a prep sink because I’ll have my swinging pantry door there, between the fridge and the start of the cabinets.

Do you think adding a pot filler over the range would help? That water won’t be accessible for my kids (still too short) but could be for me. I’ve chosen to forgo one thus far, but could be convinced.
cpartist
3 years ago
PS, if this is what your KD came up with, I’d seriously consider firing him/her since that one aisle isn’t even up to code
cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
No adding a pot filler won’t work. The kitchen is dysfunctional now and once you have kids helping,it will be even less functional. sorry to be so blunt
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Cpartist, here’s the original floor plan from January (things have changed), and penciled in kitchen beams, and a kitchen floor plan with the proposed shift in island (in blue) with the original island and pendant placement (in red).

If you have some thoughts about beams and pendant placement, I’d be curious to hear them. But please be kind—we’ve got a lot of excellent people working on this (extremely experienced and highly recommended architect, builder, KD, and interior designer) and I’m hoping for encouraging guidance from more experts on a helpful forum, not anonymous commenters telling me I have a dumpster fire here, because I absolutely know we don’t.
biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)
3 years ago
The issue is that most things you will take out of the fridge will require an intermediate step of being taken to the sink to rinse before you will want them on the island to prep them. That means either remembering to grab every item you want to wash and making one trip to the sink with your arms completely full, or making multiple trips back and forth when you inevitably forget something. It isn't a super long distance on paper, but trust me when I say it is annoying, especially with an island in the way. A pot filler won't help. A prep sink in the corner between range and fridge would, if that is something you could consider.
homechef59
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Option #1. Be certain to install beefed up drawer slides hardware to carry the load of a larger drawer. You won't like two smaller cabinets. They just aren't as useful.

Cabinets with doors and sliding shelves are a pain to use. The three-drawer stack is the superior option.

You might consider the option of the 12" spice slider on each side of the stove. I ended up adapting them into a two-shelf system for my oils and vinegars on side. I adapted the other one for kitchen tool storage. It works really well.

You might want to add more distance between the cooktop and the island. 36" is really tight for more than one person working. 40" would be better.

The general rule is to try to get the microwave closer to the refrigerator. This is where the most reheating takes place. You might also consider a small sink next to the refrigerator, too. This would really help with multiple helpers in the kitchen. Pot fillers are pretty useless. Spend your money on a prep sink.

Lighting: recessed can lights throughout, decorative fixture in the center, under cabinet lights. Rather than two pendants which tend to be vertical in shape, select a single centered chandelier type of light that has a horizontal shape and multiple bulbs. Selecting the single centered fixture will scratch your symmetrical itch.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, Homechef59! Planning to do the 3-drawer stack now, thanks to all this helpful advice, and now I’m strongly considering the 12” spice/utensil sliders, too.
biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley)
3 years ago
By the way, I just noticed that you show pantry cabinets from counter to ceiling in both corners on your range wall. They look beautiful but I can tell you from experience that the one above your Super Susan will be very difficult to access beyond the first shelf. I am 6' tall and I find it incredibly awkward to access items in the flat cabinet I have above one of my corner Susans. My other corner has an angled corner upper which is not only 100% easier to access, it is nice and deep and a perfect place to store oversized plates and other unwieldy pieces. While I understand it would destroy your symmetry on the range wall, I think you would gain a lot in terms of functionality by considering a standard cabinet plus prep sink on the left and a corner cabinet on the right.
Cherie
3 years ago
Wouldn't a prep sink solve the barrier island issue?

I admit, I am biased to putting the prep sink beside the range. I regret not moving mine from the island while I had the chance. You'll loose the wide drawers but you'll gain a narrow drawer for cooking utensils, salt/pepper, spices and cooking oil bottles. And if you changed the cabinets on the island, you could store pots and pans in there.

A few links to consider.

https://www.bloomsburykitchens.com/english-farmhouse

https://www.bloomsburykitchens.com/south-forest-hill

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cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I would drop a header between kitchen and dining room and run the beams only in the dining room area. Are you also running the beams in the living room?

Your actual kitchen/dining/living room setup is very similar to mine and I have to say what you have in the original was a better setup because it would have allowed for a prep sink on the island.

Here's a link tomy kitchen btw. (To answer your original question, the drawers on either side of the cooktop are 39" on one side and 42" on the other side. They hold my pots, pans, heavy glass items, etc) Also notice how nothing is symmetrical and not one person has come into my kitchen and said, your sink doesn't line up with your cooktop and your lights over your island don't line up with your windows. We don't live in a 2D world so we don't notice things like that.

So where is the pantry now?

Can the wall to the right of the dishwasher be removed? Notice in my kitchen/dining area, my kitchen/dining area become one space and I used headers and dividers instead between kitchen/dining and living area as opposed to kitchen/dining. Just something to think about.

I need to see the layout as to how it relates to what you have now so I can suggest some changes. Can you give us the actual 2D and 3D layout as it is now in the kitchen?

I'm really concerned about your aisle widths. They are way too tight.

(extremely experienced and highly recommended architect, builder, KD, and interior designer)

I hear you but I've seen doctors, lawyers, etc who are highly recommended who I wouldn't give 2 cents for. My girlfriend used one of the top KD's in the NY metropolitan area and she wound up with a hot mess that was unworkable as an everyday kitchen. It looked great but it didn't work.

I was an interior design major for a few days in college but unlike those who have great schmoozing skills, I knew I didn't. Meaning I'm not a great salesman (can you tell?) unlike many "highly" recommended ones are. :)
cpartist
3 years ago
Wouldn't a prep sink solve the barrier island issue?

Normally a great idea, but she doesn't really have enough room on either side of the stove for a prep sink. The bare minimum between prep sink and cooktop is 30" and that's really not enough room. Ideally you want 42" or even like I have 48". Especially if she's going to be teaching the kids to cook with her.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
I might have missed some info since my first comment but if the windows are in, it seems not much else can be changed. The DR seems to be a nice size, so if you can just move the island back so it's not in the direct line between the fridge and sink, your layout will be improved. Not as efficient as it could be, but better. Did we establish that adding a prep sink to the island is not possible/feasible/desirable? (green lines)
cpartist
3 years ago
Mama, the problem is the aisle between the island and the sink perimeter isn't even up to most area's codes. It's only 35" wide
Cheryl Hannebauer
3 years ago
following
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I wasn't aware that aisles are included in safety codes--I guess that's from living in a rural, unincorporated area. 35" is inconvenient, but since dishes will have to be stored in cabs to the left (there's no other option), and there is another, wider, entry/egress to the kitchen, it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me (unless it won't pass inspection), and the OP should check local codes. It seems too late in the game to do much changing of the floor plan. If the stub wall can be shortened, that would allow more space for shoulder room, where it's most needed. Maybe end the counter there, or wrap it in front of the remnant of stub wall (if stub wall can't be completely omitted).
roccouple
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
It’s going to be hard to load groceries into the fridge I think. I might make that pantry next to the fridge a counter with upper so you have a place to put grocery bags. Not sure if there’s another pantry? Maybe make the area next to the fridge a snack center and put the microwave there too. Microwave could be in the upper.

The prep sink in the island is necessary but the grocery issue is tough there
dan1888
3 years ago
Windows are in? Take only 1 out of the sink wall and do the swap now. Rather than moving forward with this design. Make your kitchen function as best as possible now. The cost is minimal. You'll thank yourself for years.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, Chispa! That’s very wise. Like you (and most people), I’ve lived with some tiny kitchens, and some crazy ones (one in rural Sicily for 3 years with 2 tiny children!), and I made delicious meals in them without too much trouble. I’m so grateful for all the feedback, but I agree—I know what works for me and our lifestyle, and I take the advice on here with a grain of salt. I really do appreciate everyone’s thoughts and time!
David Cary
3 years ago
While I agree with the grain of salt and all, there is something to "you don't know what you don't know".

Obviously, you can make great meals in all kinds of kitchens. And everyone has different patterns. But the truth is that most kitchens are not well designed. And most people have worked mostly in poorly designed kitchens. That doesn't mean that proper design is meaningless.

I will disagree with Chispa here - our last kitchen was too big. Many things were too far away. It was about 18x14 with 2 islands. Impressed every guest we had. I didn't realize how much better a smaller kitchen can be until we moved into our current house. Unloading things from dishwasher is much easier etc. And we have 60 inches of fridge/freezer and 48 inch range - so we aren't exactly small....
cpartist
3 years ago
Human beings are very adaptable and can learn to work in any kitchen. I know because the kitchen in our rental was about the worst ever, but I was certainly still able to make delicious meals in it. Most kitchens I’ve had were adequate but not great. I can tell you that now that I have a kitchen that is arranged the best I’ve ever had, the difference is night and day in functionality.

If you’ve never worked in a great functioning kitchen maybe it’s time to listen to those who have
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
3 years ago
Most often any question regarding cabinet are best answered by the manufacturer of the cabinets.
fissfiss
3 years ago
I have a sprawling kitchen, enjoy cooking, and I don’t find it a hardship to walk a few extra steps....and I am team zone, rather than team triangle. I do have a prep sink next to my fridge, but it is not where I end up washing food, it is too small. And I find it very logical to assemble ingredients from the pantry and the fridge onto the island. I do think that the microwave should face the fridge, or be next to the fridge....the tween/teen work triangle of fridge/pantry/microwave is one of the busiest ones in the home, and you want to keep those monsters with giant feet and no coordination out of the cook’s way. And yes, they will come in from a sports practice, eat all of the leftovers from yesterday while you are cooking dinner, and then sit down and eat another meal immediately.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, Fissfiss—this is what I’m thinking! I’ve already asked our KD to move the microwave in the island closer to the fridge thanks to all the great advice on here this weekend.
PRO
Oasis Kitchens
3 years ago
Hi Barefoot Nurse!

Another option you can do is to add two 9" full door base with tray dividers on each side of the range to shorten the length of the pullout drawers. We try to avoid going wider than 36" for cabinets that will store pots and pans due to their weight. And with the full door base, it will give you the perfect storage solution for any pans, cutting boards, trivets etc...
Cherie
3 years ago
I couldn’t agree more with the latest comments. I only have the best of intensions but at the end of the day, it’s your kitchen. You need to do what works best for you and your family.

But I make one my last post for a prep sink. I highly recommend a prep sink on the island as @mama goose_gw zn6OH mocked up with the green lines. You won’t need to cross into the cleaning zone where the kids will be working WHEN you need access to the sink to rinse vegetables or drain a pot of pasta. Personally, I don’t like the thought of carrying a 5+ gallon stock pot (homemade tomato sauce or chicken stock) and risk burning a small child who runs into my legs. I was that child and I am fortunate I only have a burn scar the inside of my ankle; at least on the my front of my body that I can see. This might be going overboard but you can train your family to call out “HOT BEHIND” when ever someone needs to pass through.

I come from a large family who likes to cook. I have 3 sisters, 2 foodie BILs, a mom and MIL. We trip over each other in the kitchen and push our way through each other to access to the sink whenever we try making a meal together. As kids I didn't really notice the lack of a prep sink but as adults, I find it more pleasant to cook with them when we each get our own sink. One person can be prepping while another person is washing up. And there’s aways a free sink to wash hands or rinse a glass. It was one of my many must haves.

If you still don’t see the need for a prep sink, please at a minimum, look into how much work it will be to add into later if you change your mind down the road. Like, how will it be vented and drained. Do you need a new drain stack or can they tie it into the existing sink drain. Will you have odd shaped bulk heads in the room below the kitchen.

Also I’m very glad to hear you’ve decided to move the microwave out of your prep zone. You don’t want someone trying to open the microwave while you're working with a sharp knife in your hands.

I know; I'm over the top. I worked in a kitchen before so I’ve seen my share of cuts and burns...
cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Moving the microwave is a start but you still have the problem of the way too narrow aisle where the sink is. And the too narrow aisle where the stove is too, but heck like others have said it's your house and if you're willing to spend your hard earned money on just good enough, who am I to stop you.
Barefoot Nurse
Original Author
3 years ago
Thanks, Cpartist. I had a long meeting with my KD and interior designer yesterday, and we made both the range aisle and the sink aisle larger, per the advice I received on this thread.
homechef59
3 years ago
You will be very happy that you made the aisles larger. That prep sink suggestion is a good one. If you have never had one, you don't know what you are missing.
cpartist
3 years ago
So glad to hear you made the aisles wider. Hopefully 42" minimum. I too second the idea of the prep sink. Especially as the children grow up and want to help more, you won't regret having that second sink and one so close to the fridge.
K H
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@Barefoot Nurse

You will be so glad to have the larger aisle space. I used to have a very small kitchen and when we were building our new home I posted my kitchen here on Houzz. It is hard to hear some of the advice but it is usually good advice! My range is a decent walk to the fridge and had the island in between of my L shaped kitchen. Luckily I heeded their advice and pushed my island out and over. I'm so glad I did! I have 54" aisle between my island/range and 51" between my sink/island. It's almost too much between the island/range but it isn't when I'm pulling stuff out of the oven or when I friends over, we all sit around the island and I have room to pull up a couple extra chairs and still get around everyone to host :)

I'm a symmetry person too and now my island is off center from my trio windows but I don't notice it now, functionality is so much more important than looks.

I would put the fridge back to the left of the stove. Looks like you still have enough room even with the windows between and you could do a pretty cabinet surround and keep your symmetry and leave the beams where they are! (see photo just flip fridge to other side. We have a full size fridge and just pushed out our cabinets/counters to 15" to accommodate for the deeper 30" fridge surround.

Or why not put your main sink and dishwasher in the island? Use the side with the beautiful windows as a serving area to take food out to the dining or as a buffet area? Or put a prep sink next to your left range window?

Combo of both suggestions, fridge on the left of the window and prep sink in the island.

Best wishes, hope you find what works for you and then share what you chose so we can see your beautiful kitchen after completion!

(how my kitchen turned out; thanks again Houzzers!)