Isn’t this something VRBO should be handling? That’s why they make the big bucks.

Putting someone else into the chain of communication is only going to add confusion and misinformation about the situation.

Join Facebook, set your privacy settings, search for her and leave. Or let VRBO do their job.

Good luck.

Vrbo has tried to find her, too. Same dead ends as I have found. They claim to have no mailing address for her, but know her zip code in CA. They'd be fine with my cancelling her!

I don't use those platforms, and I really don't want to 'sign up'. IMO she just needs a reminder about the payment due.

With the spread of the Coronavirus, many people are canceling flights out of fear of catching it. It's possible this woman doesn't want to travel, and is willing to forfeit her initial payment.

"She and the foundation have posts on Facebook and Twitter. ... Vrbo has tried to find her, too. Same dead ends as I have found. They claim to have no mailing address for her, but know her zip code in CA."

VRBO is on Twitter. The account for them is @vrbo. Why isn't someone at VRBO sending this woman a direct message (DM) through Twitter? When someone DMs you, you get an e-mail message notifying you (at whatever e-mail address you used when you signed up for Twitter), and that e-mail message contains the DM. Tell the folks at VRBO to do their job and to contact the woman.

Also, the woman entered into a contract when signing up for your condo. What does the contract provide for failure to comply with the terms? You said her final payment was due 5 days ago. What does the contract say about how long overdue the payment has to be before she forfeits the initial deposit?

Edited to add --- you should make sure your contract includes a clause that you and VRBO must have an absolute way to contact the renters, to avoid any future situations like this. You know how sometimes when you sign up for something, you get an e-mail or a text message to verify, and you must respond to it in order for your "sign up" to be valid? Do the same thing with VRBO contracts.

I would say she has already forfeited her right to use your place. I would move on and book the next people interested.

I agree with the others. You really shouldn't bring a 3rd party into this. I have rented through vrbo and all communication went through them.

Are you sure the funds she provided were legitimate funds? Have they been verified by the bank?

I would let VRBO handle it, that's why you have a contract with them. It's not your job to remind someone to make payments.

Book it.

What does the term "legitimate funds" mean?

I know I could legally cancel her reservation and keep the first payment. I'd rather try to speak with her first.

When guests book our condo they make an initial payment (generally half the total amount). The final payment is due 30 days prior to their arrival.

Refunds are 100% with 60 days notice prior to arrival and 50% with 30 days notice.

I think she may have been confused because there were only a few days between when she booked (and paid half) and when Vrbo notified her that she owed the second half. It makes no sense to me for someone to deliberately forfeit that much money.

Lindsey -- I will ask Vrbo to try to reach her via Twitter! Had not thought of that.

I'm not asking 'a third party' to do anything more than to ask this person to contact me or Vrbo about her reservation. I didn't think that was complicated, but maybe it is?

Rose -- All communication goes through Vrbo UNTIL a booking is made. (They insist on that to prevent owner and guest from making a deal and shortchanging them their fee.) Then the guest and I have one another's phone number and email address. I usually take communication off Vrbo and use my own email to welcome the guest, answer questions, etc.

I no more than finished writing the above post when I got an email that the party in question has paid her balance due. No explanation so far, just the usual form Vrbo sends notifying me that the payment has been made. Maybe she will email me, and I can find out what happened.

(Thanks to the KT member who sent me a PM, volunteering to help and expressing that she, too, would try to find the guest, if only to see that she wasn't ill.)

Whew. I hope this is the end of the drama with this couple. One of the reps at Vrbo had me concerned. He said that guests have scammed owners who don't pay attention to funds paid, beyond the initial payment. The guest gets the reservation; shows up; uses the rental and disappears before the owner notices the nonpayment. (I didn't think that of this guest, but I'd never heard of that scam either!)

Channeling the late Gilda Radner as Rosane Rosanadana..."Nevermind."

I think it's admirable that you are trying to find her! $3500 is a lot of money to lose out on, especially if you think she might be confused on the payment dates. I hope you succeed!

And, voila! You did succeed! lol We were posting at the same time apparently. Glad it's working out for them.

chisue, I think the Radner character you had in mind was Emily Litella.

She'd mis-hear things and go on a rampage with her confusion. Items like "endangered feces" [species],"violins on television" [violence], "presidential erections" (elections),["conserving natural racehorses" [natural resources], and others. Maybe Youth in Asia too (euthanasia). Her misunderstanding would be ironed out and she'd replay, "Okay, nevermind !"

Thanks to Wiki for the list

Good Lord! I'm wrong. She has NOT paid. The notification from Vrbo is just my portion of her initial payment going from Vrbo to my bank! (Rent, taxes, etc.)

Honestly, I wouldn't be expending that much effort trying to make someone be responsible. The person signed a contract. They know how much they owe and when it's due. That person may have a reason for not paying, and this is going to sound cold, but is that really your problem? I don't think so. This is a business transaction involving a large amount of money. And you could lose out $$ by trying to make that person be a responsible adult. Just move on to the next person who wants to rent it.

We've rented thru VRBO several times and I'm always very aware when a payment is coming due. If I recall correctly, I also receive a notice from VRBO reminding me when the next installment is due.

I also check my email every day because I do get important notices via email. I would never let several days or weeks pass without checking email. To me, it's like not picking up mail from the post office for an extended period of time.

Unless something traumatic has happened in this person's life (major illness, family member died, house burned down), it's hard to imagine someone forgetting about a payment that size coming due. I dunno, maybe she's flaky.

I think if it were me, I'd send one more email, give her a couple of days and if you don't hear from her, rent it out to someone else. She agreed to your original terms and it's on her to follow through.

Good luck sorting it all out. I hope you figure out what the snafu is in this situation.

Hopefully she has travel insurance.

If you know the zip code you can go to ZABA SEARCH and put in her name and state and her information will come up.

Whatever happens, I'd sure keep good written records -- the contract including payments & advance provisions, all the times you contacted or attempted to contact her at the email/address she provided, etc. She might possibly have had a genuine hardship but you have already waited past the due date, and business is business. (And if her hardship was such that she cannot return your contact attempts, she probably shouldn't be planning on leaving her town for a vacation anytime soon, is my own guess.)

chisue, you're a good person for trying to get in touch and giving her the benefit of the doubt. I hope this gets resolved quickly for you.

You are a good person for being concerned.

Asking for a friend (me).

When does VRBO take over and offer the property up for relisting? I really thought they handled all the problems that may come up.

maddielee -- Vrbo takes zero responsibility (same as airbnb). Their sole concern is raking in $500+ payment from the owner for running his ad and their fee from the guest, who pays a 6% and up to book the owner's property. Vrbo doesn't even check to see that the property is a legal rental -- or SAFE, for that matter. They pressure guests to give positive reviews of properties and pressure owners to rate guests highly.

It's all about the MONEY. The guest pays Vrbo to book. Vrbo's bank makes interest on the funds until close to check-in date (can be months), when they forward the owner's portion to him.

It's not up to Vrbo to offer dates. That's the owner's decision.

Vacation Rentals By Owner used to be a wonderful system. The Owner ran an ad. The guest contacted him directly and they made a deal. There was no middleman preventing communication between the two until the middleman got paid. Expedia ruined this good system for the sole benefit of ...*Expedia*!

" It's all about the MONEY. "

Of course it is, it's a business to make money for Vrbo exactly the same as it is for you. How could it be otherwise?

Chisue, does VRBO track the payment in full, or lack of payment in full? or do they take their 6% from the initial down payment?

Elmer, sure, businesses have to be "all about the money" to stay in business ... but it's a shame when management cares so much about maximizing their profit, that they allow their product or service to deteriorate. Oh well. I'm sure it's a complicated situation.

Business having to be all about the money is a fallacy that many of even the top CEOs are beginning to abandon in favour of a less black and white model of capitalism as they recognize its limitations.

"a fallacy that many of even the top CEOs are beginning to abandon in favour of a less black and white model of capitalism as they recognize its limitations."

Can you express this thought in different words? I'm not sure what it is you're saying.

Since you say "many top CEOs" (that part I understood), can you cite several examples of companies that are doing whatever it is you're describing?

You’re right I worded that poorly. I meant many CEOs are combining social activism with running a business and realizing that making money and having a social conscience aren’t mutually exclusive. IMHO, Larry Fink’s latest address to CEOs was an important move in this direction.

I am the furthest thing from a business or financial expert, but, again IMHO, a business does not exist in a vacuum where it’s only criteria is that it makes money. As nickel says, it’s complex. Again, my opinion.

"I meant many CEOs are combining social activism with running a business "

I'll keep it short. I spent a long career working with and as an advisor to publicly held companies. I'm retired but still in contact with many of them. Running their businesses successfully, profitably, and producing growth and good stock price returns remain the goals. Other things are way down the priority list.

I've been involved in CEO searches. Someone coming in who made a point of saying that they want the company to have more "social activism" wouldn't likely be back for further screening. It isn't what the job entails.

Larger companies have posts like "Director of Community Affairs", or something like that - part of the PR Department - and the objective is to make the biggest splash and as much noise as possible while limiting how much time and money are spent. Sometimes it involves managing charitable contributions, as a for instance. But not social activism, from what I saw.

Money managers, especially those with large portfolios, can always get press ink and microphone time. But unless they're leading a shareholder revolt of a hostile takeover, no one really cares what they have to say.

Elmer, it’s almost as if you believe in your perspective as strongly as I believe in mine. Have a good night.

Yes, could be. My career gave me a broad exposure and the chance to learn a lot about business and to develop expertise in many areas. You say you're the furthest thing from a business or financial expert. Factor that in.

Elmer, I have no doubt your career gave you experience way beyond my limited exposure and I am definitely not arguing against anything you have said - about the past. My argument is that the model you are describing is not the only model and that, moving forward, many feel that model needs to and can change. Larry Fink's letter to CEOs was extraordinary and most agree that it makes way for a shift in thinking about how businesses operate within society.

I apologize for taking this thread off track, but I feel that the displeasure voiced here about how VRBO is now operating should not be dismissed by saying they are in business to make money. I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but it feels right to me when people like chisue try to look out for their fellow human beings rather than just worry about making money.

Daisychain01, I appreciate what you are saying and I agree with you. There are many, many, many more small businesses with leaders with a heart that care about their fellow man than there are huge conglomerates that only care about their CEO's bottom line. Lots of entrepreneurs take great care of their employees (I used to work for one) and don't feel the need to suck every penny out of their company for themselves at the expense of giving their employees a living wage. I would much prefer a country full of those kind of business owners to the greedy bunch we seem to have now.

You said:

" many of even the top CEOs are beginning to abandon" and

"Fink's letter to CEOs was extraordinary and most agree that it makes way for a shift in thinking"

For a topic you admit you have little real experience with, your unwarranted use of 'many" and "most" suggests otherwise.

And, slipping in:

"about the past. "

I've told you why I think your're misinformed or just have wishful thinking. Why public companies are not pursuing nor have an interest in pursuing "social activism", and why comments by a money manager go out into the ether and dissipate without really sticking anywhere.

I have decades of experience and relate what i consistently saw. You think you have other information - please cite examples.

The concept of corporate activism is not new nor isolated. If respected sources such as the Harvard Business Review and Stanford Social Innovation Review and CEO Magazine feel compelled to publish articles on it and Google searching turns up various corporations and CEO's with well-known positions on social and political activism, that should put paid to misinformed assessments such as the above.

Pretty darn easy to verify.

Once again IKE hits one out of bounds :-)

Stick to your gardening, you too are not well informed. And stop the name calling.

(One of the negatives of today's world of the internet is that people confuse search results with knowledge, experience and understandings gained in the real world. It happens far too often and those who are so often and easily mislead usually don't realize it)

What was suggested was widespread and growing corporate "social activism". Do some more searches (is that all you know?) and if more of such in-depth knowledge you have can comes up with examples of that, share them.

The original VRBO was a thorn in the side of rental agencies because it allowed an owner to run an ad for very little money (I think $300/year twenty years ago when we bought our Maui condo). It supplied the website for potential guests to peruse, then contact the owner directly to inquire/strike a deal.

Rental agencies went nuts. Their 'middleman' function was redundant. In addition, guests no longer wanted to book a generic "1BR 2Bath Ocean View" out of the pool of condos the agency had permission to book. On VRBO they could see THE condo they'd be getting -- every aspect, from view to what's in the kitchen cabinets. Eventually the agencies had to follow suit, allowing guests to choose a specific condo.

A couple of years ago Expedia saw an $$$$$ opportunity and bought the original VRBO, re-creating the middleman. Today even rental agencies have to advertise condos in their pools on this marketing giant.

As an owner, I, too, have no choice but to advertise ($500/yr. last year) and to subject guests to the control of Vrbo -- no identities may be exchanged between owner and guest until guest PAYS Vrbo! Our guests pay our rental fee, plus the 14.42% state and local taxes we collect for the government, plus the Vrbo fee of 6 - 10%.

All condo expenses and responsibilities are on the owner. Vrbo is just 'the treasurer', collecting and disbursing...for a fee.

Elmer, your manner in discussing this issue, makes me feel disrespected, intimidated and scared to share my opinions.

Ah, but I returned to this thread to announce that the mystery guest has resurfaced!

Yesterday afternoon I pulled the plug and cancelled the woman's reservation to rent our condo starting March 22. I kept our portion of the first payment she'd made to Vrbo, figuring that IF she resurfaced, we'd collect the second payment and move on...or not.

I'd spent a week trying to locate this guest -- even had help from a KT member -- yet, it took the *cancellation* to make an impression.

Oh dear, she's been out of the country. She never GOT our 10 - 20 emails/phone calls. HOW can this be fixed? (This person claims on Twitter to be CEO of some business?)

ANOTHER half hour on the phone with Vrbo...they've sent her a new payment due message, in effect creating a new reservation for the same time. She says she will pay the instant her plane lands this morning.

Oh please let this guest arrive on Maui and go home again from our condo in peace!

Thanks for bearing with me in this little drama. Special thanks to my behind-the-scenes helper in CA!

daisy, I thought you grossly inflated the significance and substance of what you had read and misunderstood the nature of the source. I said that my own two eyes' experience was quite different and that in my experience, such "sources" were not paid much attention to. Nothing personal was expressed or intended.

"Stick to your gardening, you too are not well informed."

Apparently just as well informed as you.....maybe even slightly more so. And as for telling me what to do, let me reciprocate by suggesting you stuff it up your you know what!! The arrogance you display is truly astonishing and so incredibly unfounded.........

Companies with well-established policies towards social activism:

• Ben and Jerry's. They even have an "activism manager".
• LEGO
• TOM'S shoes
• Microsoft
• Disney
• 3M
• Starbucks
• Levi Strauss
• Salesforce
• Dell
• IKEA

@chisue Thanks for the update. I hope you will update again once your relationship with this renter ends or if her plane doesn't land...lol. I'm always curious about "the rest of the story."

Good luck, chisue.

garden, the topic was social activism and you've had a Duck Duck Go-fueled Emily Litella moment.

Ben and Jerry's is probably a quirky exception but it's long been like that and anyway, it isn't a publicly owned company accountable to public shareholders.

As far as the others, just keep searchin'. Community activity, charitable giving, standards of moral and ethical conduct, etc., are not social activism. You've demonstrated yet again that key word search matches and an understanding of the subject matter don't go hand in hand.