Nobody wants a desk in the kitchen anymore -- just collects crap. If that's an extra little bit of space, what about a beverage center? Could keep your coffee maker here, with colorful mugs and so forth on the little shelves, or more in a drawer underneath. Could even have a narrow bev fridge for creamers or for wine or other things you might like to have getting special treatment.

Kitchen beverage center- small butlers pantry · More Info

Vermont Beverage Area · More Info

Wet Bar with tiled niche for glassware and floating shelves · More Info

Second choice would be as a charging center, with a magazine rack to hold tablets and phones on one wall, or whatever works...

Charging Center · More Info

Third choice might be storage drawers for serving ware, with cookbook shelves above.

Couldn't bear the thought of living with those dark, dark floors throughout our house . . . what do you guys think about this version?

The cabinets are a softer gray. No more waterfall edge but instead, marble backsplash and warm it up with a wood island

The layout of your kitchen is ideal. If your looking to re-outfit the island, you may want to consider changing out some doors for oversized pot drawers and shelves. This would add a designer touch and elevate the style of the room. For style and color updates, refacing would be a cost-savings solution. You could also add a pantry or hutch to match.

Otherwise the kitchen is very nice as is. Happy Remodeling!

Do you have other, unpainted wood trim in the house? That's where I would take the inspiration for your floor colour from. In our 1912 house, it has tall thick 1/4 cut oak baseboards. I knew I wanted to keep those. Very dark floors wouldn't look good with them, nor would the light scandannavian floors that are popular right now. A mid-tone white oak suits our house. You have to look at other elements of the house and see what is going to suit your house?

well, it all depends.....but I would close the entry into wet bar. Reconfigure the pantry and wet bar with the sole entry on the pantry side...… I'd place range at position of entry into wet bar which means only one bend for venting. then I'd clear the wall areas at desk and up to the left of range along the outside wall. this allows a bigger, different island with seating ,to be designed...... up in a little higher position in the space. The separate breakfast room can be used for something else or continue with some type of seating...but it no longer needs to be the only seating arrangement. Island with seating would be my goal.....finishes and looks don't rate nearly as much as if you could achieve this. Good Luck.

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herbflavorthe wetbar is the butler's pantry which leads into the dining room. The problem with that plan is that there is a chimney stack which bisects the butler's pantry and new pantry from the kitchen and it would cost a fortune to remove it

This is the wood tones in the rest of the house. It appears a bit more red than the picture shows. I feel like this color doesnt really work well with any aesthetic except for the grandma's house theme which it has now

Wow! What is that material on the stairs? That would be the first change to be made in that space...

Yes that carpet and the wallpaper has to go. Gorgeous woodwork otherwise. As for the floors, I had that color in my old 1898 house originally. We refinished it to a more walnut color and it really set off everything very well since the red was toned down completely. To tone the red down you want a brown with green in it since the complement of red is green and that will tone/gray it down.

A thought on painting is to also consider the ceiling as part of your walls and maybe consider a "color" for the ceilings.

place sink down to the right of range....clear existing island you show. tighten corridor in front of range to 39 inches and behind island...increase aisle to 48 in , maybe more, and adjust an open island for seating......depth 33-39 in. Rid yourself of desk.....make storage there so island can be open below for island legs and stools to go under. I've been in many old kitchens where the main function did not include any seating...everyone comes in to do a "function" and then disperses . big downer if that's all you get. You added a pantry it appears.....you can use wall by desk for more storage/counter/whatever....the aisle you show is even questionable because back to backs between sink and range. Get the sink off, and island can be much more..... with seating. You won't regret seating there......you'll be there constantly. It will bring the use of your space up to the modern era...you can keep the style whatever you want. Demand more from this.

Seeing other pictures of the house makes me think that you might want to contact design consultant Tessa Foley of Nine + Sixteen; the style of the house is right up her alley and she would have some good ideas about updating the style without wildly overcorrecting on a 1912 house with lovely bones,

http://www.nineandsixteen.com/p/consults.html

https://www.theglampad.com/2018/07/style-profile-tessa-foley-nine-and-sixteen.html

I hesitate to post this layout, both because of scope-creep (reconfiguring windows and walls separating the kitchen and breakfast nook), and because it puts more distance between the range and fridge. It incorporates a couple of ideas mentioned by other posters--it's closer to the original layout, with the sink under the window, and puts the clean-up and dish storage zones closer to the BP and what I assume is the DR. The island has more prep space, since the second sink is smaller.
Since you don't need a desk, and since I made the range 36" for a better fit in this layout, I labeled the former desk space 'baking'. You could have an under-counter oven, with space for baking ingredients and a stand mixer (KA). You could shift the oven to one side and include an UC fridge, or fridge drawer, for baking-related perishables, which would also make them more convenient to the range--but only you know if that would be more convenient to your cooking/baking methods.

herbflavorwith the sink to the right of the range, where would the dishwasher go? Im not sure I would like the dishwasher to be right next to the range. Typically, only I am cooking at a time and clean up happens after cooking is done. Are you saying the optimal way to have a sink across from the range is if there is 48" between the two?

Oh mama goose this layout change is really interesting! I will have to think about it! Im not sure the wall next to the range can come down since it was originally the exterior and I do worry about the range being so far from the refrigerator and pantry.

What if the range and the dish hutch were switched? And then the dishwasher could go to the other side as well? With the smaller range, we would definitely need an additional oven so that could go where the desk is. I will have to see how it renders because I think I prefer the look of the sink across from the range

"typically only I am cooking at a time"...Change the premise.....a space this large??? multiple functions....for multiple people should be an inherent characteristic in your plans. Above drawing of movement into adjacent breakfast nook is a good start. You have no idea how dynamic your space can become. I would look closely at goals and budget of course...and then maybe a pro can assist you. Many times the envelope getting pushed or a plan revealed, happens.... that you cannot see at the beginning.

I'm a member of the facebook page American Bungalow. I just saw this post and thought it relevant to those who are willing to work with what they have:

"We had an HVAC contractor come out last week because our inefficient furnace from the 80s is on its last leg. While surveying the house to size a new furnace, he commented on our windows. "You need to replace those windows!" My wife replied " we just restored those windows!". He shook his head and said we should have at least replaced the wavy old glass with double paned modern glass. Next he asked about the insulation in the walls....."none" my wife replied. He was mortified...." My God, your gas bill in the winter must be over $500 a month!"

My wife smiled and let him know our heat bill averaged 150 a month in a 2000 square foot house over 140 years old, with no insulation, and 100 year old windows.

Maintenance will save you money and keep original parts of your house out of the landfills.

Go green. Restore, dont replace."

I changed the layout. I could see the refrigerator and freezer being adjacent to the sunroom as well. Im not sure if opening the sunroom like that is possible however.

I can see how this might work well to have multiple cooks at a time however I think I prefer the look of the range and sink centered.

I was too lazy to change the desk area but realistically, a second oven would likely go there. Also, imagine there is seating at the island

herbflavor I guess the other thing is, if we do have two people needing to be in the kitchen, if one person is on clean up duty, there is another sink in the BP which will also have a dishwasher or is that not a good idea?

I think I prefer the look of the sink across from the range

It is a kitchen. Symmetry, balance and look (other than house appropriate style and feel) really should be low on the list of design needs. In real life, no one is going to be viewing the space from above or from straight on -- and won't notice if things are not matching perfectly, lined up perfectly, or lined up at all. But they (and you) will notice if placement is a pain to work around.

Another vote for minimizing base cabinets -- unless you have a reeaally good reason for one in a certain spot, use drawers.

2nd dishwasher in BP: 18 in dishwasher is fabulous. Keep working, Malcolm: just go for it.....some walls cut back or eliminated.....a little more open/light/spaciousness/seating....then when budget calls for paring back, you take the zones where you are willing.....or idealized areas and tweak as need. Can you picture how the larger sunroom with windows can benefit the overall plan? It looks like a wonderful opportunity to do that.

Oh my, I can't offer any better advice than what you already have above. Just chiming in to say that I love your counter and integrated cooktop! That will kick a** in someone's kitchen, so definitely try to sell it. It could help finance a small bit of your renovation.

Lovely home! Good luck with your renovation!

Your inspiration kitchen has the wonderful opening that lets in tons of light. That is what MAKES that kitchen!

Balance in a kitchen is something a designer who ever cooks does. It's a KITCHEN! One needs to be able to prepare food in it and then clean up! Whatever makes that work best is what one needs to do.

I would question that enormous range - do you really cook that much that you need that many burners? I used to entertain a lot and I was a Julia Child-influenced cook and it's been a rare time I've needed more than 4 burners. I've never even had two ovens, but did have a countertop old Farber convection oven I could bring up from the basement for Thanksgiving cooking.

I love the color of your floors in the rest of the house. Continue those in the kitchen. You have no idea how they will warm up that room. My own floors are about that color - I like a bit of "red" in it - like antique mahogany - something I have a lot of in my house.

If your heart is set on the waterfall island, go for it. It's not going to keep you from selling the house someday. They are expensive and if your budget is of concern, use the money elsewhere. I'd keep the island simple - they get kicked a lot and they are massive. I prefer the top of an island to be more the "star" than the island itself.

As others have said, drawers, drawers and still more drawers for those lower cabinets. Once you have them and discover how wonderful they are, you will wonder how you ever lived without them all those years! It was the principle reason I did a gut job on my own kitchen - I wanted DRAWERS!

As Virgil said, that carpet on those glorious staircase really has to go. It's stunning and a runner would be more appropriate. And not a broadloom carpet runner. An inexpensive option that wears like iron is a bound sisal runner. My DD just replaced hers after 2 boys and 20 years! And yes, she replaced it with the same. Her cats don't scratch it and if they do, it causes no harm. She quickly realized that they went nuts over the samples of the carpets she was considering! The bill would not have come and they would have been toast.

Your house is going to be wonderful!

I like the openness of the new sunroom space and how it captures all the light. That said, you had indicated you were planning on part of that area as a mudroom. If that is your usual entry, you might want to plan for a bench under the window, on the left side of your drawing, with shoe storage. The tiny bit of wall opposite the door could be for coats or a tall closet unit to organize. Realistically, that space is a traffic pattern anyway so it's not like you'll be putting furniture there.

Love what you have. I like this layout OR the original layout with sink in front of window like people said (I will have to trust them about no one noticing unbalance).

The opening to the sunroom really lets the southern light in like I was talking about! I thought sunroom and breakfast were already built...didn't realize removing those walls was an option.

Anyways, do people feel there should be an island in here at all? It just seems 3 feet or even 3'-6" is too little clearance! I've seen narrower islands than what you have...I think yours is a bit too wide for your space. IMO, 4' or more is the right amount of clearance around an island (but TBH, it seems I do not cook as much as someone like anglophilia does, so let's see what she says about that).

I like the new sunroom space, but that's probably the last place I'd put the range. (I don't care for island cooktops, but in this case having a range in the main traffic path from what I assume is the rest of the living areas would be worse, IMO.) I do appreciate the fact that the oven door opens into the long aisle, leaving some 'step-back' space.

Wider window. No room for a dish hutch, but I drew a rounded, vintage-style shelf.

And what Anglophilia said - there is no such thing as too many drawers!!!

White and gray alone makes a very cold space. It needs something organic and textural to come to life and warm it up. Reclaimed wood, antique brick, period lighting in brass, handmade tiles, all will warm up the kitchen and keep it appropriate to the era in which the home was built.

J Dthe breakfast room and porch are already built. They were both additions however only the breakfast room is heated. I was thinking we could take the windows that separate them and reuse them in place of the screened windows in the porch and then add in one new window to match the existing ones and then eliminate the wall separating the spaces. No idea how much that would cost. There's also a radiator along that wall too.

The existing island does feel a bit snug in the space and it's 3' x 6' right now. I guess we could put a smaller island table there but then we wouldnt get any seating. I was thinking a 3' aisle could work if the range wasnt in the center of it but then I did think that with our dishwasher now, 40" is kind of the smallest it could go.

Anglophiliahaha, you are right, we have never used more than 4 at once . . . but I wish I had double ovens all the time. I recently cooked in a friend's kitchen with them and it was great. I do cook a lot. I asked this before but it wasnt really addressed, is the butler's pantry an okay place for the clean up to be? It could function like a scullery. That way I could have the design I like best and also the functionality restored. Noted on the drawers.

Diana Bier Interiors, LLCThere is the chimney stack there which we want to expose (but it will probably get painted). I loved the wood island and felt it really warmed the space up a lot and I love those handmade Cle tiles! I had planned to use those if we went with the waterfall edge. Planning to use unlacquered brass fixtures for the sink and cabinet hardware; do you think that would work well?

mama goose_gw zn6OHhmmmm, I do see what you are saying about the range being right in the foot traffic. I worry that in the other area, it is a bit too far. I feel like centered across from the island on that wall may be just right. In that case we could still also put the sink along the wall or plan to use the B/P as a scullery when multiple people need to cook if we keep the sink across from the range in the island

Ok, Malcolm, since you asked, here are my thoughts, in addition to what I posted above:

1. Not a fan of the waterfall edge, especially in a 1912 home.

2. I prefer kitchen sinks centered under windows. I'd hate to stare at a wall when doing dishes/prep/cleanup.

3. Ranges/cooktops should be on an exterior wall for best venting.

4. The last 2 layouts that mamagoose posted achieve both 2 & 3, but create a "barrier" island between the cooking appliances/sink and the refrigerator. You need a smaller sink on the island on the side that faces the refrigerator.

5. You mentioned seating at the island. That is going to be very tight and crowded with only 4' on that side. I'd keep the island as a work space only.

6. Re the hardware/metal choices. I probably would use a stainless steel faucet. Unlacquered brass would bother me as it shows water drips and spots. But you don't need to match the faucet to the cabinet hardware--you could still use unlacquered brass on the cabinets.

A smaller sink on the island, on the side that faces the refrigerator? So that after items are prepped they are picked up and carried around the island to the range? How is that different from taking them from the fridge, carrying them around the island, then prepping them across the aisle from the range? Not to mention that one would be prepping in the traffic from the stairs. I do agree that there should be no seating on the back side, where the traffic from the stairs enters the kitchen.

Malcolm, if you proceed with the plan to open the sunroom, you could have a longer, shallower island, with a pony wall for plumbing, and the NKBA minimum recommended seating overhang of 15", beyond the stairs. That would mean the cabinets (or shelves) on the front would be only 12" deep; standard uppers could be used in that area, with added base for a toekick.

The desk area then becomes a coffee/snacks center, or you could use it for a pet feeding station, if you have pets. Or, mudroom storage--shelves for shoes below, with hooks on each side of the window, for a few jackets.

I would move the range closer to the butler pantry, add a prep sink on the island, push the main sink and dw toards the breakfast area and arrange the windows accordingly. That way, your prep area (island) is close to your fridge and pantry, which is close to the range and you get a washing area that is not in the way.

The picture below illustrates a kitchen where you have the range and the main sink againts the same wall. I'm not sure of the dimensions but would think your 16' wall is longer than what is shown. There is also a prep sink on the island. However, they have their fridge and pantry to the left (not shown) but I would think that having them to the right, like what you have drawn, would work even better.

Traditional Kitchen · More Info

I do all the prep and cooking and DH does all the dishes. We set up our kitchen so that we don't walk by each other and it works perfectly, with aisles that are 39 to 42'' wide.

We are redoing the kitchen and master bath in a 1912 home we plan to live in for a while.

I suppose one of us should ask -- what's your budget, and what's your definition of "for a while"? And aside from the kitchen and bathroom, do you have other projects, because the entry photo seems to indicate there might be more on your plate.

Because budget and duration in the house definitely inform the scope of the kitchen project.

mama goose_gw zn6OHI like this last layout a lot. The only issue is that opening up that space, there is an elevation change where you'd have to step down into the sunroom. Still, we could have 6' of clearance on that side for stools where 3 people could sit (although I guess the last stool might be too close to the edge there).

Or, mudroom storage--shelves for shoes below, with hooks on each side of the window, for a few jackets. I think if we can open up that space and create a sunroom, that would be a really great idea and we could have cabinet doors that close so you couldnt see the mess all the time but it could be conveniently located.

beckysharp Reinstate SW UnconditionallyWe have a total renovation budget (to do kitchen, master bath, plus a few other areas in the house like removing carpet and wallpaper and add AC) but not sure how much should be allocated to just the kitchen out of the $300k total

We are guaranteed to be there at least 5 years job wise. Probably 10-20 years but I cant predict the future that far if we might have to move. I certainly could not imagine us buying another larger home in the same town.

We have a total renovation budget (to do kitchen, master bath, plus a few other areas in the house like removing carpet and wallpaper and add AC) but not sure how much should be allocated to just the kitchen out of the $300k total

We are guaranteed to be there at least 5 years job wise. Probably 10-20 years but I cant predict the future that far if we might have to move. I certainly could not imagine us buying another larger home in the same town.

I would figure out the kitchen allocation and also think about doing the update in stages. One to take you through the first five years, and then after that, if you know you're staying longer, put in more money. But if you're going to stay for only 5-7 years, you might want to think even more carefully about how you spend the money.

And the usual good advice in the Kitchen forum is to live with and use the current kitchen for a year or so to get an idea of what you like and don't, what functions and doesn't, and what you'd like to change. Gives you a much better idea of what to do going forward. Good luck : ) .

beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionallythat is a fair point. I should say we are planning to stay forever but also are aware that plans change, if that makes sense. It's definitely not a situation where it's our starter house and then we want to get some bigger or better later

We havent moved in yet but since we want to do an extensive reno, are hope to wait before we officially make the move. Conventional wisdom would say spend no more than $120,000 on the kitchen but I think once we talk removing the existing stairs and opening it up to the sunroom and adding additional windows, I would guess it's north of $160,000. Im having contractors come by next week who could give better numbers

We havent moved in yet but I cant imagine cooking in that kitchen for one day, let alone one year!

Many people have cooked in much worse for much longer : ) .

The current kitchen has two ovens, SS countertops, and an island. I spent 25 years in kitchen with miniature oven and no island. With "pantry" space downstairs in the basement, and looking at a wall rather than out a window while washing dishes lol.

And in the old GW days, many of us spent years working on and planning our kitchens/kitchen remodels. The benefit to this was that the longer we waited, the more money we saved and the more good ideas we came up with : ) .

It might be worth coming up with a whole house plan, especially in terms of the design aesthetic you're aiming for, so you don't end up doing rooms piecemeal. This could be a problem if you're enamored of a particular popular aesthetic (like a waterfall island) now but plan to do other parts of the house later on.

Yes that's what we are trying to do is have a whole house plan so that it will feel unified altogether. I do agree that we want to spend as much time planning now as we can but we also dont want to move furniture in and then have to move it out for the large reno we are planning

I'm envious of that stainless steel counter. If it were my house, I'd repaint, replace old appliances if needed, replace the vinyl floor & backsplash tile, and take a nice trip to Europe with the money I'd saved! (Reuse is way better for the environment, too.) For a lot of good ideas about designing kitchens that look appropriate for a 1912 house, look for Jane Powell's book, "Bungalow Kitchens" (it actually covers early 20th century kitchens-- not just bungalows). It's out of print now but easily available from online booksellers. Jane really knew her stuff about how modern folks can live in old houses, and makes the point that there is a range of solutions, from historically authentic restoration, to more transitional solutions that allow for modern conveniences while still keeping the feeling of a historic home.. There's also Peter LaBau's book, "The New Bungalow Kitchen."

I understand your enthusiasm and appreciate your wanting to get a cohesive design nailed down before you start the work. But I just see a lot of questions all over.

You say you do a lot of cooking. Then, cook in that kitchen the way it is for at least 1 year. It might seem like an inconvenience right now, but it will save you a lot of these questions and future mistakes. We all have regrets regardless of how much work we put into it.

To me, your plan is a show kitchen. Make it YOUR kitchen! You do that best by working in the area, making notes and then making even more.

You might end up there forever? and you cook? Then why have marble unless you enjoy cleaning your kitchen too?

Do you want people in your face as you’re cooking? Then an island with chairs is good. Remember, friends and family that don’t assemble or help in the kitchen before a Reno aren’t going to do it after one.

Why look at a stove and not to each other to eat (at an island) when you can look at each other and make conversation surrounded by sunlight at the table nook?

With a Reno budget of $300,000 you’re way out of my league. You can likely afford to gut it and do it again when fashion changes.

Regardless of what you decide, the most important experience I would like to share with you is to make it YOUR kitchen and not to design for the future owners or for fashion. What’s your personal style - go with that!

One thing I did in mine which saved space and made it super efficient was a 5-burner (I cook from scratch a lot!) with double ovens with side-swinging doors. A la Cornufe 142. The smaller French ovens are more efficient and cook just as a large a turkey as a US oven and doesn't take up the wall space.

Hello just wanted to say thanks again for all of the input. We ended up deciding to wait to tackle the kitchen renovation this year. This is the final design that we came up with. I like that it feels fresh without feeling too trendy (thanks to all who suggested not doing the waterfall counter top lol).

Let me know what you think? (The light fixtures will be different; likely going with vintage sconces over the window and this light fixture over the island).

Thanks for the update. Even though you still seem very drawn to the symmetry of your original plan, I'd suggest adding 12" to the island, to give yourself a decent prep space of 36" beside the sink. That leaves 36" for the walkway, which is sufficient.

I think it looks great, Malcolm! I love that you didn't totally open up the kitchen to the rest of the house. It's large enough to have a great open feel and still be true to the period of the home.

As for lengthening the island, I don't think it's a good idea. Doesn't look like adding 12" to the length is going to give you 36" as a walkway. It looks like only 24" and the door swing will be a problem. But it's difficult to tell from the drawing above.

Hi @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC Im sorry I missed your message. Please see the new layout. We were able to push the wall back a few inches which gave us a bit more space inside

Looks very good! When do you start construction?

Planning for the fall! We expanded the scope so needed to wait a little bit

It’s too bad the fridge has to be so far away from everything else

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