I have been married for 26 years now. Took the obey part out of it, left everything else (richer or poorer, sickness or health) alone.

It's been 31 years, but I think we took the obey part out. I remember the Episcopal priest being scandalized about something, that may have been it.

No that was not in our vows, we had our own. But we are very close and we are more than willing to help each other out so no to obey, yes to love and respect and support.

We did the traditional vows, but left out the obey part. With the 'obey' out, I think those vows are perfectly lovely although I suppose the "for better or worse" part is a matter of interpretation. There are a few worse things that I wouldn't put up with and I doubt hubby would either.

Nope.

We parted over 40 years ago ... and she died over 13 years ago.

I don't think that the "obey" part was included (for either of us).

ole joyful

I honestly don't remember, it's been 36 years. I do know that if either one of us ever even thought to tell the other one not to do something it would get interesting around here!

Some things don't get remembered, I have to say that for me, wedding vows certainly belongs on the list.

Did anyone ever refer back for guidance to what was said at their wedding, if in fact that was possible? Like other traditional things some do, vows are for the ceremony but what's included or excluded therefrom hardly matter the next day. Or am I wrong?

Our vows didn't include "obey."

I did refer once, to my husband about our vows. I told him, "best as I can recall, there was nothing in the vows about me doing all the house work." LOL

We had a Unitarian minister and told her to leave out the obey. She forgot. We both glared at her and she went oops and started over.

I did not promise to obey.

But I do, if I feel like it. If not, I don't.

I don't remember either.

It was 60 years ago so I probably repeated it, but in all honesty, didn't take it to heart. The vow was probably broken on day one. Now the in sickness and health, for richer or poorer part I have kept. :-)))

We married 35 years ago and I told the priest to leave out the “obey” part because I wouldn’t make a vow I had no intention of keeping.

It did not get included in our vows.

Book of Common Prayer in 1978. No “obey” since the “new” prayer book. Those were the days of the Green Book (trial liturgies) and I don’t remember if it had “obay” or not. Have no memory of Presbyterian vows at first wedding in 1966 - probably had “obay” - most did at that time.

Bet no one who is on these boards included it. It's pretty much been changed to honor, and the vows given and received are identical.

I asked in advance and there was no "obey". Archaic idea even a few decades ago.

No Elmer, those vows are important - those are vows you took before God in the presence of witnesses. To forget and not honor your vows is to insult God and your spouse. If your spouse is still alive (lots of widow/widowers here & I can't remember) have you discussed your vows to find out if they're important to them?

Yes, I still have a copy of my vows and look over them each anniversary. And yes I made sure the "obey" portion was in them. Paul tells us in Ephesians 5:23 for wives to submit to their husbands and goes on to say that the husband has the responsibility to treat the wife properly. So a Godly husband is commanded to not mistreat his wife so that her following him is a good situation for her. It's never a license for a demanding husband to be able to harm his wife.

Some day I'd like to frame them with a photograph from our wedding shadowed behind the words.

LOL It wasn't in our vows either...but wouldn't have mattered, he never "ordered" me to do anything. Wasn't that kind of guy. He didn't do much of

the housework (like the young grooms tend to today), but, took care of the

cars, lawn, repairs, etc.) That was fine with me (well, most of the time). ;)

Hah! I wrote our vows. Obey was out of the question!

Yes, we do look at our vows every year and, no, neither one of us even considered for a second to include "obey" in our ceremony. Marriage is a social contract, in our minds, and one that we believe is subject to negotiation and change in a loving and kind way.

We are equal partners in this journey and if we are in a situation where one of us has to "be in charge", we decide together which one of us it is. We decide together how to allocate our resources, but I'm in charge of our finances because I focus better on details. We decide together on construction projects, but my DH executes them because he is more skilled in that area. The important thing in all of our decisions is that we do them together. We believe that partners agree, compromise, reach consensus, but do not command obedience.

I just wonder how many people truly plight thee my troth? Or know what it means?

;)

The vows didn't include obey when we married in 1974. I checked.

Love is the precedent in human relations. Vows? IMO vows are words to help close the ceremony.

How many couples have a reading of Corinthians 13 at the wedding ceremony and don't have a clear understanding of love. Failure to accomplish any of the verses 4-8, and vows can become meaningless.

I'll get back to you after my morning colonoscopy. :)

That was removed from our vows. Mind you I also got married in the bright open air, not in a church (I'm Athiest) by a Justice of the Peace in a civil ceremony. But even if I had married in a church, I would have changed that line. I'm not a puppy. I don't obey anyone.

Debby, our lives are filled with obeying, even when we don't realize it. A police office is directing traffic, do you obey his signal to stop or do you mow him down? An ambulance is behind you on the road, do you obey the law and pull over or do you block their way? Do you file taxes with IRS, that's a act of obedience? We have boundaries in our lives to protect ourselves and others, we have a choice of obeying them or suffering (not enjoying) the consequences.

We had a civil ceremony before a judge. I told him to leave out the obey. He obeyed (LOL). We ASK each other to do things, we never think of it as obeying.

I guess it depends on one's perspective :-) Obeying the laws of the land is one thing and I think we can all agree that is the path we should follow. But the part of the definition of 'obey' that deals with "submission to another's authority" and that 'authority' is presumed to be your spouse is where I dig in my heels!! First, we are intended to be marital partners, not the all powerful male authority figure and the docile, submissive housewife. That archaic concept has been outdated for decades!!

'Obey' was not included in my marriage vows and was never part of our marital relationship. We asked each other for help or requested certain tasks be done but obedience was never part of the equation. My DH and I had a running joke in that he would never tell me 'no' or 'you can't'.....he knew darn well that if he said either of those, I would do the opposite!!

DH and I will ask each other to do something but even after all these years, we still say please and thank you. I think that serves as a reminder that it is a favor not a demand.

( "plight thee my troth" I believe means to pledge to be truthful to each other. )

I once heard a very true statement....about having control. If you do it yourself, for him, puts YOU in control. :0)

I like to cook, a hobby of mine... for instance and.....he likes to eat. It's a good exchange of skills. :0) I get to cook what I like....he gets "fresh" fruits & veggies made into delicious meals. It's a win win.

We "agree" on most things....so the "obey" is simply a natural "agreement". lol

No. We didn't exchange marriage vows. I purchased our rings(got great deals on them). I've always been a treasure hunter...."he" is one of my "finds". smile

Got married 57 years ago in Germany. No such thing in either the mandatory civic ceremony nor in the voluntary church vows.

I concur with everyone’s replies. I think the word obey has negative connotations but in a way we all do it to some extent. The banana example above is a good one!!

I’m pretty sure we did say obey in our vows but I don’t remember anything about a troth.

"No Elmer, those vows are important - those are vows you took before God in the presence of witnesses. To forget and not honor your vows is to insult God and your spouse. If your spouse is still alive (lots of widow/widowers here & I can't remember) have you discussed your vows to find out if they're important to them?"

I know your comment was personal and well intentioned but it's off the mark. Our wedding was conventional in most respects but there was not a religious element to it - neither of us has ever had religious activities or beliefs. I asked her about the vows and she chuckled and said these words or close to them - "I don't remember what was said and it doesn't matter to me. I do remember what songs were played though. " Funny enough, when I thought about it, I realized I also remember the songs that were played. They were rock music songs current at the time with lyrics that we liked.

Back in the day " plight thee my troth" had several different meanings. At one time once spoken you were considered to be legally bound and depending on the era would need an annulment to break the vow. Many just ignored it as if it did not happen. Later it was spoken as an intention to marry and some used it to have sex outside of marriage.

Contrary to some of the definitions I have looked at this morning "troth" was a shortened version of betrothed.

Hmmm, didn't it also say ' until death we do part' or something like that and how many are divorced? LoL

In 1984 we said the typical 'love, honor and cherish' instead of obey. I don't know what my parents said -- they got married in the early 50's. Or my grandparents, who married in the late 20's. Regardless of what word was used, I observed their marriages to be partnerships, not dictatorships.

Last I checked LOL means "laughing out loud" or does that acronym have another meaning? Surely no one thinks divorce is funny?!?

Divorce is one of those painful consequences of not honoring their vow that causes harm to all involved. It does terrible damage to children. I was of the generation that saw a rise in divorce and I saw the pain it brought to friends that had their parents divorce.

Interesting that some see obey as a negative, when parents desire their children to be obedient, knowing that they have the child's best interest at heart.

"Divorce is one of those painful consequences of not honoring their vow that causes harm to all involved."

That is a pretty broad, blanket assessment that may or may not be entirely true. I'd wager just as many divorces are the result of simple incompatibility that has nothing to do with whether or not any vows were broken. And an argument can be made that more than a few divorces can be and are amicable "parting of the ways" that do benefit all parties. Not everthing is black and white :-)

And yes, I do consider 'obey' to be a negative with respect to a marriage......a marriage should be a partnership, not a lord and master vs. serf relationship. An entirely different relationship than one has with one's children.

No Raye ,divorce isn't funny. It was just amusing to me that everyone was concentrating on the "obey" part.

I'm sure everyone that says their vows have every intention of keeping them at that time , but as we know, things happen and people change.

Obey implies a difference in power.

A parent has that kind of power/authority over a child.

However many (dare I say most?) adults in current US society do not agree that 2 people in a consenting relationship should involve any power differentials - hence all the negative connotations to "obey."

I think the very high incidence of divorce is one of many compelling reasons suggesting most people think marriage vows are irrelevant. The notion of "honoring vows" is a well intentioned thought, and I understand what's intended, but taken literally it's an outdated sentiment.

I'm not against divorce, in fact, I feel they're quite necessary. I think people often tend to act in the moment, with or without thinking of consequences and with or without thinking or caring how their decisions may affect their relationships. Relationships either grow or wither depending on so many "in the moment" choices the partners each make.

I think many people get married much too soon in relationships anyway and at too young an age.

Some of the happiest marriages I know are between couples that were both less than twenty years old when they married. How sad and jaded our society is when it doesn't treasure marriage and upholding vows.

I don't see any "power differential", for the wife to obey the husband. For the husband must also be obedient to God so both spouses are given a command to obey. I Corinthians 13 goes into more detail - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+cor+13&version=ESV

I've not known of any painless divorces, the couple may say that but... Has their ability to trust been reduced, are there other family members that miss that missing spouse, will any children involved be afraid or unwilling to commit?

Obey - no, never nor did DH ever expected me to do so. In 1977 we both objected to 'obey' in the vows and changed it to cherish. We always saw each other as an equal partner, not slave and master.

It wasn't expected that either of us would "obey" - we do things that the other asks but that's not obeying. The word was not in our vows 52 years ago.

Raye, I can appreciate your very Biblical based views on marriage but you must realize that not everyone shares them :-)

And I myself had a very amicable divorce........after almost 30 years together we just drifted apart. 15 years later, we still communicate routinely, texting often, acknowledging birthdays , etc. We remain friends.....just no longer living partners.

Thanks for that comment, gardengal. As there is no majority religious denomination in the US, the beliefs of any group or any one person, and also non-beliefs for that matter, are by definition a minority view that a majority of others don't follow or agree with. It's something to keep in mind. Personal feelings are best kept to oneself when not in a setting with others known to be like-minded.

I don’t think people get married too soon anymore. From what history tells me, women were married VERY young hundreds of years ago as it was our job. Or lot in life, so to speak. It was our job to have children & take care of the house.

Things have even changed in the last decade where women don’t have to get married because of a pregnancy.

I told each of my kids that they needed to begin knowing themselves well and what they wanted in their lives, before they could begin to know someone else well. I suggested they'd unlikely be able to do that before age 25 and for many, it's later.

Marriage is not for everyone, just like having kids isn't for everyone. Whether marriage and vows are or aren't honored is an individual by individual thing, I don't think it has anything to do with overall values or views of our very heterogeneous country (if in fact there are any or many).

Gardengal and Elmer - thank you for your comments. You said that more eloquently as I was struggling to find the way to say......your god is not my god - and so your views on what your god may or may not want has no relevance in my life.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory or rude, just stating a fact.

My one regret when we got married 35 years ago was that we got married in a church. My MIL refused to come to our wedding if we didn't do so - yep, blackmail.