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Sanding solid oak table, seeking matte finish which will not darken

User
5 years ago

I’m in the process of sanding the old varnish and 90’s stain from a solid (what I believe to be) oak table. The wood underneath is so soft, buttery, and beautiful! I can’t stop running my hands over it.

Originally I was going to stain it with a couple of different stains to give it a weathered looking depth, but I love it the way it is now. Does anyone have any experience with sealing a table like this?

I want to achieve a matte, soft look, with adequate protection (Mom of three messy young boys!), without darkening the wood at all. Is this possible?

Here are a couple of photos I took yesterday. Since then I’ve taken the table apart and gotten quite a bit more sanding done. There are two leaves which I still need to sand also. I’m going back and forth between using Tung oil, or a water based matte finish.



Comments (41)

  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    5 years ago
    Why no poly? A water based poly is crystal clear where nearly everything else especially tongue oil will Amber.
    User thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thanks to both of you! Beverly, I’ve done a lot of research and found that an oil based polyurethane will darken and shine. The opposite of what I want here. Essentially I want it to look the same as what you see, with a hardening and waterproofing protection.

    Hallet & Co., you think a water based matte poly would be best? Is there any specific brand or type you would suggest?

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  • suezbell
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Sand a part of the underside of at least one of the leaves so you can test products you might use where the result will not be seen.

    You should know that any product that applies the needed moisture will darken or yellow the table some.

    One product you might consider trying -- boiled linseed oil. My late husband put it on a 12' wood ladder and it looked great.

    User thanked suezbell
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Sue, what an excellent suggestion! I will absolutely do that with one of the leaves. Thank you!

    Thank you for the linseed oil suggestion, but it won’t provide the water resistance and durability I’m looking for. I believe the table will speak our family’s story through the marks my kids will inevitably make, but I don’t want to scratch it up when I place a heavy serving dish atop it. I’ll need something a bit more durable. I’m asking for a lot, and I know each sealant has it’s downsides. I’m sure the linseed oil will provide the look, but probably not the protection.

  • Steve J
    5 years ago

    General Finishes is highly regarded as one of the better poly’s. I’d give them a shot for sure.

    User thanked Steve J
  • User
    5 years ago

    Whatever you use, know that any satin finish needs to be lightly stirred throughout the process or the particles that give it the satin finish will settle and you'll wind up with a gloss finish.

    User thanked User
  • Linda Ransom
    5 years ago
    Research polyacrylic. I don't think that will yellow at all.
    User thanked Linda Ransom
  • Steve J
    5 years ago

    Most satin finishes recommend you use gloss until your last coat so it doesnt get cloudy.

    User thanked Steve J
  • salex
    5 years ago

    +1 for General Finishes. I have not used their "Flat Out Flat" finish, but I'd recommend buying that and testing it on a test piece to see if you like that look and feel. Apply as many coats to the test piece as you would to the table.

    User thanked salex
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    that's not oak. it's maple. use a water based finish. It won't yellow like oil bases.

    if you want it natural and flat, use Flat Out Flat by General Finishes.

    Tung oil will darken it, and you will need several, many coats to get a good top coat on it. Tung Oil will harden over time. but w/messy kids and spilled water and juice, I'd use an acrylic. like the one I mentioned. or this one. and it's a wipe on, so no brush marks.

    what are your plans for the base and the chairs?

    User thanked Beth H. :
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Oh thank you, Beth! I’ll definitely use that, I appreciate the recommendation.

    What is it that makes you say it’s maple? It was a hand me down from my husband’s aunt and there are no markings to indicate what it’s made of, beyond a “made in Malaysia” stamp on the bottom of the table and all the chairs, so I had no idea. It is solid, though.

    The chairs - I’m not sure what I’ll do yet. I’ve been sanding my heart out with a random orbit sander and a detail sander for days (between naps and outdoor play sessions). The chairs seem like a big job... I considered buying new, less bulky ones. But, I might save them for a rainy day project. Do you have suggestions?

    The base - I’ve already taken the table apart and begun sanding the entire base to make for a uniform finish.

  • mike_kaiser_gw
    5 years ago

    Without a close up (or two) of the top it's difficult to say for sure what kind of wood your table is made from but given it was made in Malaysia I would suspect one of a several tropical hardwoods that all look about the same.

    While I personally thing that the appearance wood benefits from oil and it's one of the reason modern manufacturers of low-VOC, water based finishes try so hard to mimic the effect of oil. But it's your table, not mine. I've also had good luck with General Finishes products over the years and I would suggest their High Performance water based topcoat. Their Flat Out Flat isn't the best choice for something like heavily used table and the Arm-R-Seal has an amber tone. From General Finishes FAQ:

    Flat Out Flat is a matte water based topcoat with a velvety feel and was developed as a durable alternative to our Satin Wax.
    Choose this product if you want a finish that looks more like wax and
    your project will not require high use. Like wax, it dries softer to the
    touch than High Performance when completely cured, and it will show
    more marring and fingerprints. Flat Out Flat is made with a stable self
    cross-linking acrylic instead of urethane.
    High Performance

    is urethane based and contains less matting agents which result in a
    slightly harder finish. For that reason, High Performance is the best
    choice for high use areas such as table tops and kitchen cabinets. Both
    topcoats have similar water resistance, but High Performance offers
    greater clarity.

    User thanked mike_kaiser_gw
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    It could be a Malaysian Oak which is Rubberwood. don't see much of that out here. looks similar to maple though

    here is a maple hutch I sanded down about 6 years ago.

    i used Jacobean on this one.

    here's the before top

    this was made around the same time as your table. Rock Maple I believe yours is called.

    I'd do the chairs w/spray paint. painting those by hand is a god-awful job. for the base, I'd do a chalk paint since there's no priming. you don't have to distress it. just give it two good coats of paint, lightly sand to smooth, and wax. I did a round oak table way back w/black paint. black and maple look very nice together. you can try sanding and keeping it all wood, if you want, but the two tone look is very nice

    two tone chairs. just redo the seats.

    . you could also do a nice gray like this one, and paint the chairs white.

    General Finishes Sea Gull gray milk paint would be very similar to this. Maple doesn't take stain very well (as you can see in mine. Jacobean is normally very dark on other wood). so if you want to add a little color to yours, just do a light, warm stain, then your top coat

    User thanked Beth H. :
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you Mike!

    I’ll have to buy a few finishes and try them on the underside. I understand that to most the glossy look is preferable. But I just love the natural look and feel of it. Even if I were to stain it I would still want a matte look, and I don’t want it to yellow.

    Thank you for the due diligence regarding the General Finishes FOF vs. High Performance. I’ll be making a trip to Lowe’s tomorrow. After reading Beth’s comment I googled images of unfinished maple and the table is identical. I’ll post pics up close tomorrow morning!

    This is all so confusing! I really appreciate every person’s contribution, as it expands my understanding further.

  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Oh, thank you for the info Beth!! Beautiful projects! I definitely want the whole table to stay natural and not paint it. But, painting the chairs and keeping the seats a wood tone is a great idea.

    Did you stain the table top in the photo with the industrial chairs? That color is nice!

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    I looked rubber wood (malaysian oak) and it's similar to yours too. if it was made there, it's prob what was used. its very inexpensive wood.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-is-rubberwood-furniture-considered-good-quality


    Then again, manufacturers would ship wood overseas and have furniture made there and shipped back. So really, it's hard to know if it's american maple, or local rubberwood.

    either way, the finishing process is the same. I'd still paint the base one of the colors I posted (or whatever color you like or have in your room) and paint the chairs. trust me when I say you do not want to sand and redo all of those. ask me how I know! spraying them is so much easier. (they have a matte spray enamel)

  • User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    How did you finish the top on this table Beth. It's gorgeous!

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Sew, those 2nd two aren't mine. I've done similar ones to this though. that top is a combo of a stain, and then a dry brush w/a white paint (chalk paint or milk paint) or you could get the same effect w/a white wash stain. General finishes has it. you use a rag or a brush and basically wipe it on and off. or brush on and off.

    i did it w/chalk paint and stain on this oak top


    and on this wood art made of pine boards. I don't have a pic prior to stenciling, so try and look past the wording.
    lightly stained the wood, and used a few diff colors of chalk paint on a dry brush, lightly, the slightly sanded to lift paint.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Thank you Beth. I collect furniture to restore and repurpose. Unless something is prepainted, I always use water based stain with a polyacrylic, tung oil, or a hand rubbed poly finish. I tend to prefer a hand rubbed finish more and more these days.
    I do have a round pedestal table that I'd planned on doing a dry brush technique with silver paint on the top. Then we rearranged our Sunroom. The new lighting fixtures prohibit anything but a long table, so I've not played with that technique yet. I am anxious to try it again. I've not done a dry brush for ages and then just on craft wood items.
    Now that hubby is retired I have more time to restore all the wood pieces I've collected over the years so I may have to refinish that table just for the fun of it.

  • ci_lantro
    5 years ago

    You won't find General Finishes at Lowe's. Rockler, Amazon, some paint stores.... You can use the 'Where to buy' search function at General Finishes website.


    I've used their High Performance finish on unstained red oak and maple (plywood). The only change from raw wood is a very slight darkening and your choice of gloss. Water clear dried finish w/ absolutely no amber.


    Also, very easy to use (applied with a foam brush), sands easily to a powder so doesn't clog sandpaper, and can be renewed with a light sanding and more topcoats. Fast dry time so you gotta' move fast and/ or use an extender. (I bought the extender from General Finishes.)





  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago

    Sewciable, if you try it w/the chalk paint, you can easily wipe it off or sand it down a bit if you make a mistake. CeCe Caldwells chalk paint actually wipes up w/water. I like milk paint on raw wood, but chalk paint also works. and, you can make your own w/the plaster of paris recipe. I've done tons of repurposed pieces, although lately, I've been slacking. here's my blog if you want to peruse the items over the years! http://makemeprettyagain.blogspot.com/p/gallery.html

  • User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Thank you Beth. I planned on using Ralph Lauren Candlelight in silver that I have on hand. It's thin bodied so I figured it would work well. I may get a small bottle of some chalk paint for some craft projects though. Thanks!
    I looked at your blog and you have some wonderful pieces. You have been very busy. My collection of furniture was to start a business, but I'm in such demand for other things. Hubby is now retired and our son found his soulmate (I watched our grandson often) so maybe, just maybe, I'll have some time for that and my other hobbies. "Big grin."

  • Brandt F.
    5 years ago

    Another product that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Waterlox Original and top it off with the Satin finish. It's a really durable finish that won't look plasticy like Polyurethane and holds up really well with wet glasses and other liquid spills. I prefer it hands down over polyurethane and am currently finishing an unstained Walnut dining table with the stuff for my own house. The finish will last a long time, and is much easier to repair if damaged than polyurethane.

  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    5 years ago

    But waterlox (i personally love it) will amber the wood as much as any oil varnish.

  • User
    5 years ago

    Hi...do the leaves store inside? I think I have the same table...

  • Cheryl Hannebauer
    5 years ago

    >>following>>

  • PRO
    GannonCo
    5 years ago

    Waterlox is a great product. Start with gloss and last coat with matte. So many Co's trying to get that dead flat look. G Finishes High Performance is a great product. Actually the best way to apply is those cheap $3 roller in plastic tray from Depot. Those little rollers are the perfect nap. Roll out and back roll one time to smooth out and walk away. Lightly 220 between coats and after 3 your done. Their so called flat to me is the best looking flat out there but it does have minimal sheen.

    Do not use a standard interior latex paint it will not go well. As Beth mentioned above chalk/milk paint goes on bare wood and is so forgiving its a no brainer.

    By the way G Finishes gel stains do not need any top coat. I lightly polish the last coat with some spray bees wax and its done. I have a coffee table used daily and it has held up to everything. Its as dead flat a sheen as you can get.

  • Steve J
    5 years ago

    wannabath, As the OP mentioned, she did NOT want to tint the table top or darken the wood. Waterlox while is a great product, WILL darken the wood and give it an amber/orange tint so this is not a good product for her specific use case.

  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago


    Thanks all!! Here are some up close photos. I cant seem to make a decision, so I bought a couple of stains to mix and play around with, and matte Minwax Polycrylic to test on the underside of the leaves. I might check my local hardware store for the GF.


    I’ve sanded the entire thing with 80, and 120. Still have to do 220. I still have one more pedestal to do. Any suggestions about getting in the grooves of the pedestals?

    Penny- the leaves do not store inside. I wish they did!




    The photos are a little dark - it’s been rainy and the heat/humidity has stalled my progress.

  • User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Please come and do mine.... :)

    It's not a task I want to do, but the top is such a mess and I'm waffling between taking the easy way out and buying a new one, or just tackling refinish...

    For the grooves, others will pipe in with ideas, but I would wrap sandpaper around something the appropriate size...screwdriver? And use at an angle so the paper doesn't get poked through...

    It's going to be lovely when it's done..I admire your tenacity...

    Will the matte finish be wipe-able enough?

    I've used tung oil and Danish oil before and just love it....SO easy to do and leaves a nice, soft finish...but it would darken your table, I think. Could you just use butcher block oil?

    User thanked User
  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    just roll up the paper and use your fingers, or a small tool w/the sandpaper. you can try a sanding sponge too. or use stripper. you really should be using stripper anyway as sanding does not release the stain from down in the grain. last pic,,,see the dark 'freckles' ? that's stain down in there. if you like the look, fine, but actual stripper would have gotten most of that.

    User thanked Beth H. :
  • mike_kaiser_gw
    5 years ago

    As for sanding into the recesses, sandpaper wrapped around your finger or a dowel of the appropriate diameter(s). They actually make little rubber sanding blocks with both concave and convex edges in various sizes, Rockler sells them.

    User thanked mike_kaiser_gw
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    That photo is extremely up close. It’s not something you notice as an imperfection while looking at the table from a normal viewpoint. I’ve heard horror stories about stripper, and am working with my kids paying just outside. I do not believe one absolutely needs to use chemical stripper to refinish furniture. So far the sanding has produced beautiful results, so I’ll keep on with that. Thanks for the tips! I’ll use an angled sanding block, or order some of those little rubber doodads.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    SMaran, just so you know, I use SoyGel stripper.Made from soy beans. it's very gentle and gives off no odor. rinses off w/water and you can use your bare hands. It's perfectly safe. costs more than the nasty smelling stuff, but it's worth it. Yes sanding works, I'm just letting you know that sanding doesn't remove stain from down in the grain/pores of the wood. that's all. I've also done it both ways.

    User thanked Beth H. :
  • User
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Thank you for the brand name! I used a water based matte seal on the underside of a leaf and didn’t like the way it yellowed the wood. It’s just the nature of the wood. So, I’ve been experimenting with stain layering and I’ve found a combination that I’m very excited about. Hopefully I’ll have the staining process done by the weekend. Busy week ahead with the kiddos! I’m going to look into that stripper you mentioned - doing the chairs (staining seats, painting the rest) is seeming like an increasingly interesting project. I’ll need stripper for that!

  • ksc36
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This Loba product sounds like it's what you wanted....

    2K Invisible Protect A.T.

    2 component waterborne thin film coating retains the natural appearance and feel of untreated wood while providing superior protection

    User thanked ksc36
  • Danielle Krause
    4 years ago

    SMaran.... did you ever get the table finished and care to share the product you used? I'm looking for something exactly as you're describing for a table I'm sanding. Thanks!


  • Paula Madeiros
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Smaran did you ever finish your table , would love to kmow the outcome and products you used as I am in the same predicament. Thank you 😊

  • El Le
    2 years ago

    Hi SMaran, did you ever finish the table ? What top coat or finish did you decide on? I am in a similar boat and want a matte protectant that doesn’t change the light wood color… any advice or specific brands would be so helpful! Thank you!

  • Scot Slady
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Same here! I have a french oak table top and have tried two products without satisfaction. The latest polyurethane made it look like plastic and slightly darkened the colour.

    Does such a thing as totally matt and stain proof finish exist out there?

    Somebody please help I am at my wit’s end!