All of these are nice systems. What are you looking for?

1. Has the var speed XV18 condenser

2. Has the XL proprietary top 2 stage up to 18 SEER, would be close to your existing system

3. Standard open top up to 17 SEER XR17 2 stage cooling

i would ask for AHRI matching system numbers so you can know eff ratings for cooling especially for a 5 ton system.

i assume these are straight AC systems with a small heat strip for heating.

Yes/no?

you might want to know that qte #2 XL181 system is proprietary to Trane only. However #1 and #3 are available from sister company Am Standard.

IMO

How old is the current system?

How long do you plan to stay at this home?

Sorry, but Trane is nothing special. With that said, every machine out there will break at some point. That is reality. Avoid gimmick advertising. You know like: 'It's hard to stop a Trane.'

There are ways to cut costs, but not eliminate them. Depending on the age of this system, you are probably better off repairing it at this point.

Others reading this: Have a Trane system out of warranty and live in or near Katy, Texas? I may be able to help you.

The Trane is out of warranty...that suggests older than 10 plus years and a Tampa, Fl location. Spend $2900 on a repair. Really? Not a good allocation of resources.

IMO

I agree in that it with makes no sense to sink $2900 into repairs and still have to deal with R22 refrigerant supply issues.

A 5 ton condenser for a 2400 sq. foot house in Tampa seems over sized. This will result in poor humidity control. I highly doubt the duct work is large enough to handle 5 tons of air flow.

Spending money on UV lights is unnecessary in my opinion.

@tigerdunes Thank you very much for your detailed response. Based on your activity, it appears you are a valuable member of the community. Thanks for that.

The house presently stays cool on hot days; however, there are some days where rooms away from the thermostat are warmer. These rooms typically have lots of sun light. We typically keep the air locked at 74 degrees. Six months prior, we were on a schedule, but the temp has been locked with a recent addition to the family.

You asked about my goals... If we can keep the house comfortable, low/no humidity and holding temperature - I will be happy. Should my bill be reduced with the new unit, bonus.

As for Am Standard... I was not aware they were the same company. Is there a typical price difference between the two companies that would make me favor Am Standard over Trane?

@Austin Air Companie thanks for your assistance. I would agree with the others, I am not interested in putting the money towards fixing the unit.

@mike_home thanks for your assistance. I can not comment on the flow, but I can say the house feels comfortable. That said, 4 installers have recommended the same handler. Should I question this with a 4 ton?

"The house presently stays cool on hot days; however, there are some days where rooms away from the thermostat are warmer. These rooms typically have lots of sun light."

Suggests that these rooms are not getting sufficient airflow. If this is only the case for a few days a year then that's OK. If it's more than that, you should probably get the duct dampers adjusted to even out the cool air flow.

If the whole system replacement costs are giving you heart attacks, check out Goodman or Rheem systems. They tend to be a little less expensive and, if installed properly, are just as reliable as the other brands. Just be sure to get a heat gain calculation done, as 5 tons does seem a litlle excessive for your home.

My reasoning over repair versus replace:

This is a Trane 20 SEER AC system. (High end at the time it was installed.)

IF 'it's hard to stop a Trane?' Why wouldn't you roll the dice and gamble on a repair?

You're looking at big money to replace again and in a few years after that you could be confronted with similar or worse problems.

If this was like a run of the mill Trane XR12 or less, then I'd say yeah replace it.

You can do what you want, but I have an American Standard 18 SEER at my rental home and as long as those compressors hold out (it's a 2 stage with dual compressors) I will repair this thing until the cows come home for slaughter. (Yes, it's R22 as well... sure there may come a day in which I don't have a choice... but R410a isn't what I would call cheap either and in another 10-15 years R410a could be phased out as well --- R410a is a goner already in Europe where R32 is the replacement.)

So there you go.......

totally disagree with above post! Reasons; age, cost of repair, and R-22 refrigerant. Whether a Trane or AmStd replacement does not matter. That's up to OP.

IMO

You are not going to achieve a 20 SEER rating on a 5 ton system. If I am wrong then show me the AHRI certificate.

Homeowner's can'f fix their own equipment without a refrigerant license. That's why they have to pay $2900 for a repair.

Mike it's the same thing if he were to buy a 20 SEER today, the rating drops off as you go higher in the tonnage requirements. (I nowhere said the homeowner should fix it himself don't be ridiculous) I don't know why you two argue semantics when at the end of the day a 20 SEER back in the day is no less capable than a new 20 SEER today.

Lowest price is XL18i according to what OP posted at $8096 Keep in mind that these units are being sold as 'It's hard to stop a Trane'

Is that XL18i going to be any more efficient than the XL20i that it's replacing?

If you put in the new system it could spring a leak just as much or more than the current system.

It would be a different thing if the current system had a bad compressor or something like that. But a refrigerant leak? I would fix the leak. If the system was low end, then there would be even less a reason to do what I suggest here.

This is the difference from true HVAC repair mechanics versus those who just replace, replace, replace. It's kind of pointless to wear a badge that says 'It's hard to stop a Trane!' If you merely replace the Trane every time it breaks.

If you spring a leak with newer R410a refrigerant it's less forgiving than R22 as the pressures are double that of R22 which means it leaks out faster.

So while you will pay more for R22 now and probably on into the future if the need arises the difference between the two (R410a or R22) is miniscule in the grand scheme of things.

You can do what you want, but let me point out you could replace the coil to fix this leak 2 times at less cost than it will cost you to replace this system that will 'most likely' be less efficient than the one you have now.

Another difference in true HVAC mechanic versus equipment brand fan boi:

If I replaced the indoor coil to fix this leak and the compressor failed / or some other failure with outdoor unit. I could then convert this system to use R410a and reuse the replacement coil. Obviously the manufacturer's do not like this and in some cases the manufacture warranty may be effected negatively doing this, but it may open your eyes to a few things as to what is possible, when you TOTB.

If it's only $MONEY$ and you have a tree out back that produces it daily:

Dismiss what I say here. Because anyone anywhere can solve problems the more of this green stuff you have to throw at a problem.

Another less obvious point:

The Older Trane XL20i you have now was likely built with a true patriot 'American Made Compressor'. Just before American Standard (which owned the whole lot) The plumbing business as well as Trane, they moved the compressor manufacturing part of the business to Mexico. Today you may get a compressor made in Mexico, China or in some cases it may be a 3rd party compressor? Who knows for sure? (lower end models always get the lower end compressors if you feel me?)

But no fan boi is going to tell you these things. Do some research you'll find breadcrumbs here and there....

Ray you were promoting the idea to repair this high end XL20i because it has a very efficient 20 SEER rating. I was trying to educate the OP that he is not getting 20 SEER and to not use it as a reason to justify an expensive repair. I realize another 5 ton unit would also not likely to reach 20 SEER. I still question if 5 tons is required and if the duct work is large enough to support it.

I know you don't promote owners to to fix their own equipment and complete against your repair business. But you have a different perspective on this. You have the ability to fix your own AC because you can do it cost effectively. The typical homeowner can't do that. You must have had a situation where you owned a old piece of equipment that you could not fix yourself, and were quoted a high repair bill. You had to make a decision to invest money in the repair knowing that in the future you were going to make additional repairs. At some point you have to cut your losses and replace it.

I find it sad that we have to use the argument "you should repair it because they don't make them like this anymore". Maybe the tariff war with China will change things.

This is a repair versus replace quandry. Why not seek another quote/opinion from another dealer? Specifically, where is the leak located and how are you handling Florida weather at the moment? I still believe repairing any older system out of warranty whether Trane or another brand is ridiculous. The fact of the matter, it seems OP has already decided and correctly I might add.

IMO

I didn't name it an XL20i Trane did. It suggests a 20 SEER rating does it not?, but the 20 SEER rating is likely for a 2 ton or 3 ton AC with variations of indoor equipment. So as the tonnages go larger you will lose a SEER or two of that rating for larger equipment sizes, this is common among all brands it's nothing new.

Trane doesn't publish the actual numbers, you have to get this information from a dealer that sells a lot of Trane equipment. You could call me a dealer, but not in the sense that I sell a lot of Trane equipment (I work on them and repair them so only in that sense am I a dealer for Trane). I really think the only reason Trane does this is to limit comparisons to the competition as in someone using performance and SEER rating statistics to compare from.

With that said the new XL18i suggests an 18 SEER does it not? Again same scenario as above. For larger sizes the equipment will not hit 18 SEER as the model suggests.

So from 20 SEER (theoretical based on model indicator) to 18 SEER (theoretical based on model.)

The higher the SEER rating the more efficient the equipment. The higher the SEER rating the less the operational costs will be.

Do the math: Pay $8k and higher utility costs for new XL18i.

OR

Pay $2900 to repair existing system and likely have lower utility costs for current XL20i

If I had to guess the XL20i could be around 18 SEER and the XL18i is probably around 16 SEER.

So would you honestly replace a highly probable more energy efficient system for a newer less energy efficient system? That is really the argument.

If this current system is just over 10 years old, theoretically replacing the indoor coil to fix the refrigerant leak may get another 10 years out of it.

Certainly there are risks that it may not work out this way, but Trane is billed as really GOOD equipment is it not?

If Trane is not really GOOD equipment, why is it often recommended on this board?

Sounds kind of scammy if you ask me.

R22 Freon is expected to be available until 2030 for servicing existing equipment. So while you will pay more for it especially after 2020 when it's no longer produced and imports are banned, there should be more and more reclaimed as commercial entities convert systems to newer refrigerants to escape the high R22 costs, this is where the bulk of reclaimed refrigerant comes from, because these systems hold a lot of refrigerant.

If you have a 'leak free' system (void of refrigerant leaks), the system could run forever without needing any more refrigerant added, regardless of the refrigerant used.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Obviously, above poster has a point of view that I totally disagree with. Don't really believe it matters anyway since it appears the train has left the station. As I recall the XL20i is a 2 compressor condenser with a 50-100% split output on low to high stage. These models quoted are all single step compressors. Go ahead and pay the $2900 repair bill. Guess what, you still have a 10 plus yr old condenser with zero warranty after the first year if that. The repair is a terrible decision.

IMO

Several manufacturers uses a number in the model number to imply a SEER rating. It is a marketing gimmick which HVAC salesmen use to their advantage.

The SEER rating is available from the AHRI certificate of a valid match system. A condenser by itself has no SEER rating, but it can achieve a range values assuming it is properly installed.

The right way to do this is to do a load calculation and install the proper size. The duct work issues should also be addressed. A repair doesn't address any of this. Additional reasons why an expensive repair on an old system is not a good investment.

tigerdunes,

It's like I said before.... having no warranty on the outside condenser makes no bit of difference to the 'skilled' HVAC contractor.

The refrigerant leak is likely on the indoor coil, so you replace the indoor coil to a tune of $2900 / or whatever it is --- sometimes it may be cheaper than this. The new indoor coil you get a 10 year part warranty on the coil only.

If the outdoor condenser fails (like compressor(s) or non repairable refrigerant leak, then I would perform a R22 to R410a conversion. You know because I am skilled, and install a new R410a condenser.

So as a rough example: say you replace the leaking indoor coil with a new one, 10 year part warranty. 5 years later compressor dies.

R22 to R410a conversion new condenser reusing the previously replaced coil that still has 5 year part warranty on it. The condenser gets at least a 10 year part warranty.

The whole purpose of this is to get the full life out of that HIGH END 'hard to stop a Trane' unit.

But alas, you need SKILL to do it.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

PS: This is a good example how I can save you (the silent reader of this thread) money. Obviously you must reside within Katy area to make use of it.

@tigerdunes, @mike_home, @Austin Air Companie

Thank you all for your thoughtful input in helping me make a smart purchase. I believe every consumer has a risk tolerance level, which gets reduced with certain factors. For me, shelling out $2900 to fix the unit is too risky. Especially when you consider it is 33% of the cost to replace the unit. Would I rather spend $2900 vs $8500, no doubt, but I personally do not feel it is worth the risk.

Based on all of your suggestions, I have called other installers, researched more systems and questioned the recommendation of the 5 ton systems. Lennox systems were WAY too pricey, even with the Costco incentives. American Standard systems were more than the comparable Trane systems too. As far as the tonnage, this is still an open question. Of all the installers to come to the house, there was only one who suggested the 4 ton system; however, his rational was not because of ducts or airflow, but rather because we had good insulation. Not sure what to make of that.

I am at a point where I need to make a final decision. We have narrowed down our options to the XV18 and the XL18i. With a $1000 price differential between the two units, I'm trying to determine if the XV18 is going to add that much value over 5-10 years.

Lastly, both units come with the Trane thermostat, which I understand is good. Our house is fully 'smart-enabled' and we have the ability to control everything via panels and Alexa. I would love to get a new 'smart' thermostat - any reason why I would keep the Trane thermostat vs getting an Ecobee one?

Thanks in advance.

Todd

Todd, at the end of the day you have to do what is right for you and some areas of the country is very difficult to finding someone like me with my air conditioning repair capabilities and so because of that the risk attempting things that I sometimes offer as repair options I recommend extending outside my service area is often times fraught with even more risk.

Given your climate (high humid prone) I believe the XV18 is the better choice, from the choices you provide here. If you're going to spend the money you might as well get the better system. (better in terms of what it does to control humidity).

Additionally the XV18 would be more forgiving with sizing concerns, because this system is a load matching type system, that starts in lower speeds and ramps up. It will rarely over cool, which is a good thing in a high humid climate.

"Of all the installers to come to the house, there was only one who suggested the 4 ton system; however, his rational was not because of ducts or airflow, but rather because we had good insulation. Not sure what to make of that."

This installer is saying a 5 ton system is too big based on the cooling load of the house. The insulation values of the walls and ceiling are used to determine how much cooling is required.

The duct work size must be large enough to handle the conditioned air. If it is too small then you are not getting the cooling capacity you think you have. No reason to spend money on larger equipment if the duct work is choking the air flow. Restrictive duct work is noisy and creates extra static pressure. The extra pressure will reduce the live of the blower.

The thermostat controls how the AC ramps up and the amount of over cooling. I think the XV18 is a communicating system. If that is the case then you should be getting the appropriate Trane thermostat. Hopefully the installer will wire it correctly and not set it up to stage via the handler's control board.

XV18 will add zero value to your home over the XL18i. Might help you on comfort and operating cost marginally.

IMO

By all means, have fun. ;-)