The problem with this thinking... which to me used to be fine, till I noticed, that all is fine and dandy till something goes wrong....then people scream... For example, you may want to take any drug you want, then your cousin dies of an ephedra problem.... then all of a sudden your thinking is changed. Personally, I generally agree. I think that the stupids who mess with something they don't understand.... just weeds out their genes from the gene pool. But apparently, others don't see it this way. I see this in almost all aspects of American life... ANOTHER example... You all want a freemarket system... till you pay $3 a gallon for gas... then you scream. People seem to want what they want with no concern for the consequences... I just do it... and unlike Cacye, I LISTEN when someone says there is a danger... some don't... that's why they try to beat trains in train crossings.... ANOTHER way to weed certain genes from the gene pool.

wcjoyner ... I had hoped someone else would jump in here but they must all be busy canning. I've made jelly twice in my life, but I did mention once that I had made jelly from the juice drained from pepper hash. Linda Lou cautioned that I needed to add vinegar. We were in the midst of a discussion of how much vinegar was necessary to protect against botulism for my relish which I intrepreted was also the case for the jelly. I later read that low-acid jellies needed additional acid AND pectin to jell. I also read a post where a canner was advised against increasing the processing time of jars of jelly. The reason was the pectin wouldn't set if processed beyond the original recommended time. So, in my opinion and if it were my jelly I'd toss it. I'm afraid you couldn't rescue it and I'm also unsure of its safety since it has been sitting in a sealed jar for sometime. Sorry, I can't give you a more expert answer, but I would rather err on the side of caution. --Kay

I left about 1/2" (maybe slightly more, but not below the bottom thread) for Annie's Salsa, and I forget what Ellie Topp's Tomato Basil sauce was but I followed the recipe on that. It's just a shock to take rings off jelly jars or pickles and find the liquid just above the bottom lip, or even lower, just barely hidden by the ring, when I know I filled them to somewhere in between that and the top thread (1/4" plus or minus 1/8")! Applesauce seems not to have increased (or that much) headspace, but the headspace isn't clear, you can see where it's boiled up. I'd have to really look at apple butter I have left - I don't remember off the top of my head how much headspace is left, but both apple products and tomato products boil up and leave residue in the headspace. Pickling spices get left up there too, and pickling liquid is reduced so headspace is almost doubled. Since even the jars I have measured dead-on have increased headspace (not quite double, for example I leave 1/4" for jelly and then later it ends up just at the bottom thread which is almost 1/2") after processing, and I'm careful about the rings and such, the only thing I can think of is that the pressure/temperature is varying? Is this a problem with glass-top ranges? I've only had 1 jar (apple butter) come unsealed (within a week) so it seems vacuum is OK, but I don't really like having pickles sticking up above the brine, residue in the headspace area on apple & tomato products, and just lots of empty space at the tops of jelly jars.

Thanks for the link Annie, I checked it out, and as of the date of that article, Seminis did sell to Territorial and Johnny's as well as Fedco. It could be that a couple of the brassicas I just bought from Fedco, as well as the Lollo Rosa lettuce from Burpee could have come from Seminis. I will have to call the companies and check. A short snippet from the article Annie posted: " Taking spinach into his own hands: Nash Huber doesnâÂÂt want to get stuck depending on a hybrid that might get dropped by a mega-company owner on a whim. He also doesnâÂÂt want to lose any of the vigor, disease resistance, etc. that hybrid has provided. So Nash is working on dehybridizing �" breeding an open-pollinated spinach that is well adapted to his needs. (pictured: Huber, left; Matthew Dillon, right) Posted February 22, 2005: The news of MonsantoâÂÂs agreement to purchase Seminis has received little attention from the media other than the financial pages and a few seed industry and anti-globalization web sites. But then again, why should it? How many consumers �" of food or seed �" have even heard of Seminis? And yet, as Seminis spinmeister Gary Koppenjan said, âÂÂIf you've had a salad, you've had a Seminis product." It is estimated that Seminis controls 40 percent of the U.S. vegetable seed market and 20 percent of the world market�"supplying the genetics for 55 percent of the lettuce on U.S. supermarket shelves, 75 percent of the tomatoes, and 85 percent of the peppers, with strong holdings in beans, cucumbers, squash, melons, broccoli, cabbage, spinach and peas. The companyâÂÂs biggest revenue source comes from tomato and peppers seeds, followed by cucumbers and beans. In large part, these numbers reflect usage of Seminis varieties within large industrial production geared towards supermarkets, but Seminis seeds are also widely used by regional conventional and organic farmers as well as market and home gardeners. JohnnyâÂÂs, Territorial, Fedco, NicholâÂÂs, Rupp, Osborne, Snow, and Stokes are among the dozens of commercial and garden seed catalogs that carry the more than 3,500 varieties that comprise Seminisâ offerings. This includes dozens of All-American Selections and an increasing number of varieties licensed to third parties for certified organic seed production. The brand-name companies under Seminis (such as Petoseed) have developed, released, produced and distributed varieties common to the market farmer and even home gardener. These include Big Beef, Sweet Baby Girl and Early Girl Tomatoes; Simpsons Elite and Red Sails Lettuces; Red Knight and King Arthur Peppers; Gold Rush and Blackjack Zucchinis; Stars & Stripes Melon; and Bush Delicata and Early Butternut squashes (see sidebar for other popular varieties)." So home gardeners DO have to check their seed, these are very popular varieties though the article is NOT saying that these...