I don't see the gain. Id be thinking about a better use for the second kitchen!

We already removed the second kitchen and converted it back to a bedroom, otherwise our loan won't be approved.

To make it better would mean reconfiguring many of the rooms

What's with the closet in the dining room if there is a closet at the entry around the corner?

Is there a reason for 2 kitchens? I see it could also be a bedroom but are you going to run connections for water and electric for a stove? Seems like a waste of money.

I'm not too thrilled with the master bath and its 2 entries. The entry from the hall should be closed off giving sole entry from the master bedroom. Move the toilet over into the corner and create a doorway leading into the toilet area. Tub may fit in area that toilet is now located, running same direction as it is now. Add cabinets to opposite wall for storage. The area where the tub is now can be created into a walk in shower.

Bedroom 2 and 3 will share bathroom in center of home.

There are a few different things o could see doing here but that will depend on your answer to Virgil's question above.

At the very least take out any door that is not closing off a private space.

I like maze houses. They are like magic; bigger from the inside than they look outside. I'd much prefer this to a personality-less box.

I updated the original post with current floor plan (with only one kitchen), and list out several options we are considering. I feel like I would avoid lots of structure change if that doesn't bring any value. Remove three walls between kitchen, living room, dining room and den seem costing over $30K. I am not sure how much value it will bring back to us.

What are your needs? You mentioned two master bedrooms. Is that something your family could use?

If you're trying to keep it under 30k, my choice would be:

-remove the entire wall between den and living room (you might be looking at a flooring issue there)

-close the doorway between powder room and master bath (that's just weird and unnecessary).

If you want to stay under $30K, then caulk and repaint everything inside and out. If you have anything left after that, replace some lights and plumbing fixtures.

At first glance, I would be inclined to remove the wall between the kitchen and den (or create a large entryway) and turn the former den area into the dining room. Seal up the current dining to kitchen doorway. The kitchen would have to be reconfigured so that you had a galley with your appliances along the two longer walls. IMO this would be a much better layout for that size kitchen anyway.

Your former dining room would now be part of an L-shaped living room area. You could eliminate the wall between the new dining room or not as funds allow. Here's a mockup:

My first thought agreed with your first thought. Open up the den to the living room so you don't really walk through a closed room to the back bedrooms.

Looks like they put on an addition badly to create more bedrooms.

Do you need four bedrooms? If not, I'd make the back bedroom into the den and close off the back bathroom to be a master bath.

I do like biondanonima's idea of making the dining room a true foyer and the den a dining room. But of course, that means more construction than plan A above.

My best suggestion is don't decide until you've lived in the house for awhile. For example, you may find that the back bathroom opening to the hallway is useful. You may hate it.

Consider contacting a local architect to help you make decisions based upon their first hand experience of the house, the site, and you.

I don't think changing the den to "dining" room will do anything. You need to leave 3' of walkway to move through it to get to master bedroom, leaving not enough space for a table and chairs. Plus you have to move past a table every time you go in the kitchen.

It messes with the kitchen layout too; that's a sliding door on the top wall, isn't it? So nothing can go in front of that. The fridge would have to go on one side of the doorway, so the doorway is limited to no more than 3' wide, and you lose a lot of opportunity for counter space. Besides which, moving around kitchen plumbing, new cabs and counters is a whole lot more than 30k.

Seems all of those three walls (walls between kitchen/dining, kitchen/den, den/living room) are supporting walls. Removing them are structural change, I am not sure if it's worth to do the structural change (about 30K). We don't limit the whole budget to 30K.

A significant architectural improvement would be to 1) Relocate and reconfigure the kitchen down into the former dining area: 2) Enlarge the dining space to hold an 8' long table and chairs; 3) Integrate the Living room and enlarged Dining room as one large open space.

Won't happen for 30K. Depending on your location and tastes, the new kitchen cabinets and counters could easily cost that.

Good luck!

Virgil Carter Fine Art, we are not limit our budget to 30K. Just not sure if 30K for only removing wall and adding beam worth it. Not sure why need to swap kitchen with dining room?

May I ask why on earth you bought this house, which clearly WAS designed by the designer of mazes? Yikes! Short of gutting the house and putting beams up on supporting walls, I don't see anything that will help this house. Or help it for an affordable amount.

I am constantly astounded at the constant barrage of posts from GW members who have bought a house so ugly I don't know why they ever got out of the car to view it, and now want some advice on "curb appeal", my advice being "burn it down!" but left unsaid. And then the ones who buy houses with the world's ugliest kitchen and want a few "hints" on how to make it gorgeous on a very limited budget. Not possible in most cases - paint can only do so much.

And then the bad floor plan requests. Changing a floor plan on a house already built is never cheap and can be extremely costly, if possible at all.

PLEASE think about these things before buying!!!

You would get a significantly improved kitchen by removing the three walls. 30k is not a very big estimate for that work. If you have the funds to put in a beautiful new kitchen too, your home will be improved.

Whether you will see a ROI when you sell, I don't know. I know that I would experience an improvement in enjoyment in my home with a larger kitchen that isn't cut up by three doors.

And really, do eliminate that door between powder room and master bath. Money no object and assuming you don't need the bedrooms, I would actually combine the master bath and powder into one larger master bath, increase the size of the master closet, and annex the rest of the 12x10 into a master sitting room. It would be a lovely master wing. Or use it as a large storage area, or a small library.

The fact is there are a lot of creative things that could be done but we don't know your needs other than to reduce the maze-like quality, which can only be achieved by removing those three walls.

5x your budget to even start anything that would make an impact.

I'm confused by you wanting "return" so quickly. Do you not plan on being there long?

Also, Virgil's ideas are outstanding...(hint hint)

We need four bedrooms. The house was not designed like a maze. The two bedrooms in the back were added in 1970s. And the previous owner added doors and walls to have a rental unit for 1 bedroom 1 kitchen on the right side of the house. Right now we are not sure if we need open kitchen or closed kitchen. Is current kitchen too small? The whole house has about 1800 sqft.

We plan to being there long. Maybe do some additions later. So not sure if remodeling current kitchen is compatible to future additions (another bedroom) at the back of the house.

Then you bought the wrong house. Put it back on the market and buy a different one.

Or plan to spend a heck of a lot more than 30K on making it functional for what you want.

If you are planning to be there a while and are thinking about adding on further, I would wait until you are sure of what you want to add before doing anything else. The house layout can undoubtedly be improved (for a price), but redoing the kitchen or anything else now only to add another room (that may impact the previous renovation) on later is madness.

Okay, from personal experience, think about this: You need four bedrooms and you might need five.

Your kitchen is 10x13. That's a pretty small place to be cooking for 6-7(?) comfortably.

Our budget is not limited to 30K. We just know removing those three load bearing walls costs about 30K. So not sure if it's worth to remove them.

That 30K is someone’s WAG quote. “Every wall that comes down costs about 10K.” Except when it’s an old house and it doesn’t. It costs more. Then there is the auxiliary issues to the wall removal. Like the hvac, electrical, and floor patching. That get added to the wall removal.

Go big and hire an architect and have a truly substantial budget, or don’t even move in and sell the house. Stop the sale if you can.

Remodeling, especially older houses with additions such as yours, always have suprises and "ooops" factors. For example, the HVAC is on its last legs and needs a new coil for the heat pump. The electrical service is insufficient. The roof leaks. The chimney is plugged. And the biggies: the foundation has cracked and settled; the floors are sloping and bouncy; there's water and pest infestations and damage; the roof framing isn't tied in to the walls and foundation; the water heater is leaking; the microwave stopped working (ask me how I know about these last two); etc.

Anytime an older existing house is opened up for remodel and/or expansion you can expect (and should budget for) "ooops factors". Taking out supporting structure and adding or removing beams is where this situation surfaces and becomes visible.

I suggest, as others have, that you consult with an experienced architect to inspect your house condition and decide what you truly need to do, as opposed to what you may want to do.

Good luck!

If this were my house, I would focus on opening up the den so that you don't have to go into a rabbit warren to get to the master. How you do this depends on load bearing walls and how best to remodel the kitchen, which in my opinion, is essential.

A very good friend of mine moved into a house with multiple additions and after 20 years, I still get lost looking for the powder room. But she loves it and it has served her family very well. Good luck with your new home!

I made a (fairly) simple change. Expanded the kitchen into the den, leaving a portion of it as a dedicated hallway.

The gurus over in Kitchens can help you lay it out. I don't imagine you want to lose the slider to the back yard, but the former den window can be kept, changed, or elimated. Depending on the kitchen layout, you could restore a door to the hall, which I would love because I like circulation!

Moved the hallway door. Yes, this is a load-bearing wall, but this small change is worth it. It vastly improves the living room access to the back yard, and gives the two bedrooms more privacy.

In the back hall, I incorporated the closet into the bathroom, where you need the storage. You can put a cabinet, shelves, or a linen closet there. Maybe even a stacking washer-dryer! For several more $$ you can move the bathtub over into that space, and have the storage next to the vanity instead.

In the central hall, how useful is that deep closet? I can see half of it being added to the bedroom, but with good shelving it's probably fine for luggage and a dustmop.

In the dining room, I took out the closet. Wouldn't a sideboard look nice there, or built-ins?

Are the foyer and big bay window additions? I ask because of the partial wall, but perhaps that was put in because of the fireplace/woodstove? At any rate, that looks like a nice sitting room in the bay. My mother-in-law has something similar in her condo, and it's a nice place to have a conversation separate to what's going on in the living room.

In this next version, I moved the kitchen door to the right, and restored a den door to the hall. If you don't mind losing or moving the kitchen slider to the right, you could have a nice galley kitchen. Of course, it's also the traffic zone from garage to the the rest of the house, but really, how often would that be a problem?

Or, this next one, where I opened the kitchen completely, and there's only one door from the living room to the back, but it's right across from the former den window, so the LR gets an enticing view to the back.

Are you quite sure that the wall between the kitchen and den is load-bearing? That doesn't seem right somehow.

HIre a design/build firm and pay for an opinion and then proceed......you will need structural advice. It will be money well spent for the correct options and peace of mind....and my two cents says this house looks like someone who owned the house before you added on the master bedroom 'suite' by tacking it onto the back of the house. Good luck.