Let's see some pictures of your hand made wooden bowls. I would think the wood scraps might be good if you could grind them to you 5-1-1 size. What kind of wood? Always good for mulch if you can chip or shred them up some.

Cory

We use a lot of shavings for our animals in the barn and after peed and pooped in, cleaned out and composted, it makes a great add on for the garden. I can imagine that it would be great for top dressing but not so good for mixing it in. I would think the rotting process might harm tender roots? But of course no experience to proof it.

And I agree with Cory, now we would love

to see what you are working on :)

LOL! Ok, here are some of the bowls

Lathe with a bradford pear piece in the makings

Sycamore (below)

And a couple of redbud bowls from a fence-row tree that was cut down.

I turn a variety of different woods depending on what becomes available. A neighbor had to bulldoze some Satsuma oranges after a hard winter and I even tried that. It split horribly as it dried...as fruit woods are prone to do. Pecan is the only hardwood I turn that I might be concerned about using around a fruit tree in large quantities but bugs LOVE it and I think they turn it into bug manure before it has a chance to bother my trees. This discussion is bound to prompt some concerns about attracting and providing a prime habitat for boring bugs and fungus. It's certainly a good topic for discussion but there ARE beneficial fungi that compete with the bad fungi...and same with bugs. I think potted habitat is different but I'm trying to promote organic decay and provide habitat for bugs, worms, and beneficial microbes...and that's where I get a low-level but constant source of nutrients for my in-ground trees. If I had one big concern it would be that I may reduce aeration of the root zone and it might actually stay too wet during rainy periods. The counter might be that the bugs and worms I hope I am encouraging should help aerate the soil via their burrowing activities. Just throwing some of my thoughts out for discussion....seems logical to me but logical isn't always the way it works in reality :>)

Be still my heart. Love your bowls. I don't know much about hardwood shavings but dh brought "grit" to our 20ac from the paper mill. We used it for mulch and potting soil. It is ground-up bark from pine and hardwood plants love it. Betty's Bloomers out on 418 used it for potting soil. Back in the day it was $25 for a dump truck load. Oh and sand was in the mix. I would think the cotton bowl mix is adding the acid needed.

jo

John I love your bowls especially the two in the last picture. So rich.

Those are pieces of ART! Gorgeous.

Hard wood as an ingredient in container mixes is a problem. Manganese is present in large quantities in the bark of most hardwood tree species. If this excess manganese in not removed from the wood by leaching or composting, or balanced with iron, tree growth will be poor and toxicity levels are frequently reached

Thanks for the kind complements on the bowls...I usually turn green wood so it's a challenging and often trying hobby but very rewarding when a piece works.

Also thanks for the comments on wood as a mulch, additive, etc. Yes, trees like hickory, pecan, and walnut may be toxic to other plants at some level. Seems like I read about sawdust tying up nitrogen earlier somewhere. Looks like the nitrogen would be released as soon as a bug, bacteria, or fungi decomposes the wood? I haven't read of the manganese issue so thanks for that note Silica! I carefully steer clear of pine, cedar, and fir by the way. I don't want the turpentine or the termites!

Pine chips is the #1 bark wood used world wide in container growing.

Silica, right, I should have clarified I'm talking about the wood portion of the tree. It's my desire that the hardwood shavings I apply will quickly become fodder for bugs, worms, bacteria, and fungi. It's funny to make the following comparison but it might be relevant. Cows eat grass which is pretty much useless to them without a huge population of cellulose-consuming bacteria in their stomachs. The cows digest the bacteria (now a useful protein) and their fermentation byproducts in a later stomach. I suspect that's what's happening with hardwood shavings. There might be some wood sugars and micro-nutrients that leach from the surface of the wood shavings but I'm guessing the biggest benefit to my fruit tree is the poop from the biological activity at the soil/sawdust interface. That hypothesis of course assumes my trees are benefiting significantly from the hardwood shavings.

rotting wood takes a lot of nitrogen out of the soil. If these shavings are used in a 5-1-1 with the shaving the 5, they could rot and heat up your soil to the point that tree roots would die. Be careful. Use as a mulch only. That is where forest liter ends up and the worms and microbes move it from th surface to below.

Sawdust is extremely high in carbon and requires a lot more nitrogen compared to composting based on carbon sources like fall leaves, newspaper, etc. It will tie up virtually all the nitrogen in the soil. In fact it is never a good idea to add too much sawdust to a regular backyard compost pile since there is just not enough nitrogen available. Unless, of course, you add urea at regular intervals and turn the mix often to keep it aerated.

Wood/sawdust is hard to decompose in nature. Even bacteria finds it hard. Fungi attack wood first feeding on cellulose material and wood sugars. That is why it is easy to grow mushrooms on this type of material. Most fungi also have the ability to fend off bacteria while they are active. After the fungi has done its job bacteria takes over. After bacteria, worms invade. It is a long process. The resulting compost has nutrients but it is still tied up and needs other bacteria and fungi to make it available to the plants.

Sawdust and fresh wood chips hold way too much moisture and don't allow oxygen into the mix in my opinion. You're asking for trouble. You'll have an oxygen-deprived toxic situation. Perhaps the larger pieces would be useful after they are composted. But that will likely take a year or more. You'd have to use a screen to get rid of finer pieces and the dust.

I think everyone has already said the general cons of chips and dust. Another is that one of the most beautiful woods is walnut (black) for furniture and wood crafting is bad for your plants. Definitely don't use that for compost. Black walnut (wood, roots, leaves, nut shells, etc) have growth inhibitor. Useful for growth suppression, I've used chips from my neighbors branches which got chipped to edge along my driveway.

Grows well with walnut trees

Steve

Beautiful work John! Thanks for posting the pictures. I enjoyes looking at them.

Cory

Thanks for all of your comments! I remember, now that several of you have reminded me about the nitrogen point, reading or hearing wood ties up nitrogen but I didn't research it at the time since I was looking for something else. Paws....agreed on the black walnut, and I think some others in the Carya genus are the same...hickory and pecan. I have quite a bit of pecan wood so I may be making more pecan shavings. It does make great bowls..and thanks again, Cory, Dave Susanne, Josephene, and all for your kind complements on the bowls.

I will watch where I have wood shavings and will be wary how much I apply. One thing I haven't mentioned is that wood turnings, as compared with sawdust, are very fluffy. It's amazing how big a pile of shavings comes from one piece of wood I attach to the lathe. The shavings are coiled and thin so maybe I'm not applying enough yet to negatively impact the nitrogen that's available to me trees.

On mushrooms, I already barely know what I'm doing with my citrus hobby so I think I'll skip the fungi!

Elisabeth C. Miller Library: Gardening Answers Search Results for "10" - "You've probably always heard that you should never add black walnut sawdust [or wood chips] to the compost pile because the juglone will kill everything that grows in the compost. Abraham says that's not necessarily true; that juglone is not found in walnut saw dust or wood chips. Nor do dead walnut trees exude juglone. --- University of Washington Botanic Gardens

Thanks, Albert, for the reference which I just read....that ties well with what I have read about plants that aren't good at sharing their root zones :>)

I also did some Googling on the nitrogen and even ran across some discussion of the manganese point....and, as with any topic, I found lots of discussion of the finer points of each and it appears neither are black and white and a lot depends on application techniques. I didn't dig deep enough to find other citrus-specific information. Apparently, some "authorities" say the nitrogen consumption is minor and only occurs at the chip/soil interface. From our citrus perspective, that might be more problematic for us since our trees have very shallow feeder roots.

Interesting...please feel free to add other thoughts but I think we might risk beating a dead horse pretty soon :>)

I've heard the nitrogen thing is bunk, but can't remember where. In my opinion, it's the oxygen deprivation that is the worst thing for your medium.

As far as I know, the myth about nitrogen robbing has to do with using mulch as a "top layer". Mulch is made of sapwood and not bark. In this case, the amount of mulch that is in contact with soil is quite minimal and superficial. Most of it sits on top of the soil and does not mix with it in any significant way. And thus the nitrogen robbing does not hold much ground in this case.The mulch does not affect what the roots "sees" since it is above it.

If, however, the same mulch is mixed with soil and is a significant proportion then it is quite capable of robbing the soil of nitrogen. The original premise of this post is to use sawdust and shavings as a soil component. In this case, it will be in intimate contact with the rest of the soil where the roots are. As a soil component it is detrimental. As a top dressing it is useful in retaining moisture.

Its bunk???? Tropicofcancer, I suppose you could incorporate saw dust or mulch into the soil, but you would have to increase the nitrogen level used to compensate for that lost (removed) by the degrading mulch & sawdust. The best practice, of course, would not use sawdust in the first place.

Agreed, best practice is not to use raw sawdust/shavings/chips as a soil component. Too much trouble.

These days most mulch is partially aged (usually a year) which reduces its N need a bit but more useful is it remains moist longer. Aging is fungi induced and that is why often one will see random mushrooms pop up in mulched beds.

Digressing into the fun part with raw wood components. Hope you folks do not mind:

Raw wood chips like the ones used in playgrounds does not degrade as quick. I have a small bed of these chips about 8 inch thick inoculated with wine cap mushroom spores. Every spring I get a load of these deliciously large mushrooms. After about two years the chips are completely decomposed and it goes into my garden beds.

Sawdust and shavings mixed with straw goes into milk crates and inoculated with oyster/shitake mushroom spawn goes into several milk crates. After they are done (usually less than 2 months) the resulting spent "soil" is excellent for gardens too. And I get extra mushrooms pop up all over the yard after a good rain.

Here is the milk crate with oyster mushrooms.

The bottom of the crate:

That is SO cool!

I am not a big fan of mushrooms, except they are great when included as an ingredient, but I'm still in awe of your mushroom crop! Glad you shared and it seems like a great way to get the wood shavings through some air time and then you have great compost additions.

I would loove to grow mushrooms. Is it easy to get started? Du you have a special room for this? Where could I learn more about this? Thank you for sharing

Hi Susanne - about 15 or so years ago, my sisters wanted to try growing mushrooms at home and I ended up getting them some kits for Christmas. I found them at a company called Fungi Perfecti - http://www.fungi.com/shop/indoor-growing.html

Now in the age of Youtube, I noticed that they have videos on their site describing how they package the kits and some of the requirements for growing them to maturity, which is pretty basic.

Living here in SE PA, we are close to what has been dubbed "the mushroom capital of the world" (notably Kennett Square, PA as well as a number of other communities in Delaware and Chester Counties in PA - they just had a big festival last weekend), and I know many gardeners around the area love to get some of that "mushroom compost" from the processors too (that can be further composted and used as a soil amendment for yards).

John: I too usually like mushrooms as a part of something else myself. But then I do not mind it being part of anything whatsoever.

Susanne: Easiest is oyster mushroom. It will grow in a wide variety of medium including wood, wood chips/sawdust/shavings, straw, spent coffee grounds, cardboard, newspaper and even just rolls of tissue paper. Straw is practically foolproof. There are tons of very good instructions on youtube of using straw for oyster mushrooms - very good way to learn how to grow mushrooms. For other mushrooms things start becoming a bit more complex as they need some specific ingredients and preparation for success.

Jenny: I believe Kennet Sq, PA supplies more than half of mushrooms in US. Many years back I attended a mushroom growing workshop there and it was the best thing ever.

I think I have a new projext for next year. Getting my hands on straw is one of the easiest because of my animals. Getting the mushroom spawns and make them grow might be a bit trickier.