j4c11's Spring Renovation
Having renovated my back yard last fall, I found out the hard way that the best time to seed cool season grasses is also the time when Poa Annua germinates in force. Seeding in the fall also means the earliest you can apply pre-emergent mid-November at the earliest, when it's too late.
The desirable grass failed to establish very well due to shade and some fungus problems, while the Poa had no such issues. I have decided that in order to break out of the Poa cycle I need to put myself in a position where I can apply pre-emergent early fall, and that means no seeding.
The problem
The plan
- Seed the back yard one half at a time so the dog has somewhere to run and play.
- The back yard is shaded in the summer, which will hopefully help with the biggest problems with spring seeding: heat and summer weeds.
- Use a mix of Traverse 2 fescue and Turf Blue HGT Kentucky Bluegrass. The bluegrass will hopefully make up for any summer losses in the fall.
A couple of weeks ago I fenced off half the yard and sprayed glyphosate killing the Poa and whatever fescue was there. Today I ran the dethatcher twice, cleaned the area and seeded fairly heavily. Also applied Urea/TSP/Potassium sulfate and sprayed Tenacity at 8oz rate and Propiconazole at 2oz/1,000 sq ft. Hope the chemicals make the seeds unpalatable to birds. Watered lightly and stomped the seed into the ground per dchall's buffalo theory. Rain in the forecast tonight so hopefully mother nature finishes the watering job.
This weekend I will spray the other half so that it can be seeded as well in 2-3 weeks. Summer will be upon us shortly.
Comments (57)
tarheelsol
7 years agoUser
7 years agoRelated Discussions
Other renovations to lawn this spring/summer
Comments (2)I think I fell in love with the fan palm. It's too bad the bananas from the top tree aren't edible (but for fertile crossbreeds, they wouldn't be...) I don't really have anywhere to go with it, though. My garden tends toward English....See MoreRenovation: Half the yard this fall, other half early next spring
Comments (2)If I wanted to do the entire renovation in the spring (I can get away with that because it's sod), how would I kill off the entire yard in March when it is still pretty much dormant? I heard glyphosate won't really work well when everything is dormant. I guess I could wait until the end of March, early April but that is cutting it close. I'll want a months time to do two applications and leave time between the kill off and sodding....See MoreRenovated lawn last fall - what's my plan now coming into Spring?
Comments (12)Why use a starter fertilizer? That's typically for seeding/overseeding. You might want to look @ using Milorganite. That has all the right stuff in it - organic matter, iron, nitrogen and phosphorous. It will make your lawn green because of the iron and it will give it a quick boost from a small amount of nitrogen. The long term benefits are the most important part; the microbes in the soil will consume the Milorganite. You are feeding the soil, not the lawn, but when you feed the soil, the soil will feed your lawn. When soil microbes eventually die, they release nutrients from the food they consumed and broken down; these nutrients are released in a form that the plants can take up. When you feed the microbes, the population of microbes will increase --- and therefore, the amount of food for your lawn increases. As long as you continue to feed the microbe herd, it will feed your grass. The best part is that the microbes will eat just about any organic matter you introduce; this isn't unique to Milorganite. This is one reason folks recommend that grass clippings be left on the lawn and that fall leaves be run over with the mower & left on the lawn instead of being bagged or blown. However, I (like many others) like to give my soil an extra snack to really boost the microherd; Milorganite is my preferred soil snack because it's cheap and readily available at Lowes, Ace, Home Depot, etc. The microbes are already in your soil, right now ---and they always are ready for a feast....See MoreRenovation: Take two
Comments (4)7b, clay soil, sounds familiar. Where are you located? I will be getting a soil test for sure first. A soil test is good but nutrient levels take time to change, so no rush on that, nothing is going to change before seeding time. I learned that the pre-em doesnt do well in the thin grass, which seems to explain why I got so much crab grass. That's false, pre-emergent, when applied properly, will work on bare dirt , mulched areas etc. 1) I need to kill off the crabgrass. If you have less than 50% grass just use glyphosate. 2) Top dress (?) Would a good quality topsoil be a wise thing to topdress with? Is that more dependent on what the soil test says? No need to topdress at all. 4) Seed. Is slit seeding superior to broadcast? Ive never used it beforer If area is prepared properly broadcast works just fine. The yard has decent slope, would slit seeding help reduce any potential runoff if a heavy rain occurs? What are the best ways to help prevent any runoff? Slit seeding will definitely help in that case. 5) Pre-emergent. I have Tenacity which I have not used yet. My understanding is an application at the time of fall seeding will help prevent winder weeds, including poa annua which Ive had problems with in the past. That is false, Tenacity only lasts about 30 days, and it's pre-emergent effect on poa annua is slim to none. It does help with many other weeds. You will need to apply something like prodiamine to take you through the winter. 6) Starter fertilize. I have been using milorganite since the spring. 2 applications so far and one more about to come up. However, should I use the milorganite now if I plan to be using a starter fertilizer when I seed or wait? I would wait, you don't want your existing grass growing too fast at the time of seeding. 7) Winder fertilize. Would this be the time for the next round of Milorganite ? (post germination fertilization is something I did not do last year... maybe that accounts for the thin spring?) Yes, failure to properly fertilize will result in a thin stand. Forget the MIlorganite. Besides the starter you will need 3 additional rounds of fertilizer at bag rate this fall, October, November and last one in December(winterizer) which should be straight urea. Any non-organic lawn fertilizer will do. If you want to do organics start next year, a new stand of grass should be fed with synthetics. 8) Come spring, is it best to control weeds through the summer, which was my plan this year, Be ready to apply prodiamine at 5 month rate March 1st. Miss that one and you'll be in the weeds, literally. Stay on top of the weeds throughout summer. or thicken up the yard even more by overseeding (if needed) and let the density of the lawn do most of the weed control Total myth - crabgrass, bermuda, virginia buttonweed will poke through the thickest lawn and take over in the summer. Pre-emergent is key, followed by strict post-emergent control for whatever breaks through. Please help! Let me know your thoughts on the steps above, what you might change and how I can help ensure a better renovation this time around. Here's some additional info on the overseeding process. http://lawniac.com/overseeding-fescue-lawns...See Moretarheelsol
7 years ago
mishmosh
7 years agoUser
7 years agotarheelsol
7 years agoUser
7 years agoUpdate at 7 days post germination. Grass is coming in nicely.
Nuked the other half this Sunday, going to seed asap. There's a streak of rain in the forecast so that may take place sooner rather than later.
User
7 years ago@Scott
Traverse 2 came from Preferred Seed :https://www.preferredseed.com/detail/index.cfm?nPID=388
Turf Blue HGT came from Todd Valley Farms :
http://www.toddvalleyfarms.com/store/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=38
I renovated last year with all HGT in the front, here it is as of 2 weeks ago:
We'll see how it does through the summer, so far so good.
User
7 years agoProgress report: seeded the other half of the back today. Just in time for a nice heavy rain. Rain in the forecast for the next 4 days which is great, no watering.
Scott
7 years agorcranf1
7 years agoUser
7 years agoChris Vale
7 years agoUser
7 years agoChris Vale
7 years agoUser
7 years agoSecond cut yesterday on the first half. Been aggressive with Tenacity, so far it's holding the weeds back. There's some broadleaf weeds that don't seem affected by it, but they're small so I'm going to let them be a little while longer so I don't have to hit the young grass with Trimec.
Second half is coming along, but the grass is growing thin and long, like a plant without enough light. I've seen this movie before and it doesn't end well. May just take longer to establish, but time is the one thing I don't have with June around the corner.
User
6 years agoSecond cut on the second half of the reno. Development is slow due to shade, but it's coming along.
The above picture is of the same area as in the original post. No more Poa A!
tarheelsol
6 years agoUser
6 years agoUser
6 years agoUpdate - the grass is coming along nicely, the shade is helping with the heat. No issues yet, a few broadleaf weeds here and there which I'm ignoring for now. Applied urea @ 1lbs/K last week to push development. Picture as of Saturday, exact area from the original post. Freshly cut @ 2".
mishmosh
6 years agoUser
6 years agotarheelsol
6 years agoUser
6 years agotarheelsol
6 years agoUser
6 years agotarheelsol
6 years agoUser
6 years ago@tarheelsol
Based on my experience Poa A seems to germinate September through April due to mild winters here in NC. I plan on doing 4 month rate in September and 4 month rate again in December.
If you have fungal issues, it would be wise to get on a preventive fungicide program. Start May 1st and keep it going through mid-September. If you seed, apply fungicide at seeding time as well, seedlings are highly susceptible.
@Scott
HGT as of an hour ago. Holding up well thus far. One cultivar out of the blend is clearly starting to dominate. Couldn't say which one, I'm assuming it's Barvette since it's the aggressive one. This area gets full blazing afternoon sun and the bluegrass seems to like it.
tarheelsol
6 years agoreeljake
6 years agoUser
6 years agoreeljake
6 years agoUser
6 years agoUpdate: heat is taking its toll a little, but so far I'm pretty happy. PGR + fungicide every 2 weeks.
Don Zebowitch
6 years agoUser
6 years agoAnother update at the end of the month. Grass is doing very well, one more month to go. Very excited knowing I'll be able to spray prodiamine in September and kill all the Poa.
Fresh haircut as of 30 minutes ago.
User
6 years agoUser
6 years agoDon Zebowitch
6 years agorcranf1
6 years agoJoe BigBlue
6 years agoUser
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoJoe BigBlue
6 years agoUser
6 years agoUser
6 years agomishmosh
6 years ago
Scott