Not too much over here so far, when one takes the whole of Europe into account, from which we currently have access... that may change over the next couple of years...

I have noticed though some downsizing, removing some of the roses that just don't sell enough to warrant the effort, but I take the view that there is always something else just as nice, around the corner...

I don't know how it is where you are but even at local nurseries I can't find many roses that aren't knock outs or drift roses. I first got into roses at sears hardware of all places .. I bought Madame Pierre oger and it was just so beautiful I started buying more. Now there's no chance of finding those types at any local store so I do hope online merchants keep them going ! I'm sure you will find the ones you want . Maybe consider keeping them in pots until you move ?

I wonder if some of the old roses you mention require more of a chill factor in the winter that many parts of Australia can supply. As far as I know the teas, Chinas, Bourbons, noisettes and polyantha roses do better there than the once-blooming European roses.

For us here in the US, general nurseries sell very few old roses, if any. We rely on specialty nurseries for heirloom roses.. A number of these nurseries have closed, but a few are still hanging on, and a few appear to be doing reasonably well.

Rosefolly's observation sums up my experience. I have been relying on specialty rose nurseries for years. I keep sharing my passion for heirloom plants at every opportunity in hopes of new converts diving into the purchasing pool. If the specialty nurseries all go down, it will be a dark day for OGRs and other plants that have been cultivated for centuries.

Around here in the 1990s, antiques of all kinds were hot: houses, furniture, dishes and furnishings, clothing, plants, etc. Many nurseries and garden centers carried a few OGRs. Now all the above seemed to have waned and slipped from trend seekers' radar. Bungalows and other antique homes are demolished daily while larger minimalist modern and "antique repro flavored" modern homes are constructed on the sites of modest old houses. On the antique lovers front, the latest craze is mid century modern vintage but popular roses in gardens seem to be Knockouts and landscape shrub roses, not mid century classics or "new antiques" like Austin and others.

I think there are a number of us on the forum that feel like we are living in The Lorax. We are the antique rose lovers and we speak for the Gallicas, Albas, Chinas, Noisettes, Teas and Bourbons! Many of us also hope to preserve species roses of various kinds, native plants which host the wildlife that survives in environmental niches.

Hopefully another OGR/species awakening will happen soon. In the meantime, forum members are preserving what we can so that if our gardens ever become the last refuges of rare cultivars and species, the next generation in the world will have the material to begin again.

Carol

Well said Carol. It has been a problem for decades here, Tangles. I think Australia has had to resurrect Alister Clark roses that almost disappeared after his death.

Interestingly, there are several of the Alister Clark roses growing in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden here in California. When Tilley and Andrew Govenstone wrote their book on Clark's roses, The Women Behind the Roses, they came here and made a presentation.

They come and go, like many other garden plant groups. For a long time here garden centers had very few, the same limited assortment year after year. Then there was a vogue for them, and the selection expanded greatly. This has since gone over, which is what is being talked about on this thread. The main force that drives retail nursery sales is what new property owners are buying, and on the whole what this group wants now is plants they don't have to do anything with. Hence the focus by rose breeders on Knockout style types. These also lend themselves to use in commercial settings like gas stations and malls, institutional landscapes where large numbers of them may be planted all together. Purchasing by this market probably has a significant impact on sales.

Even in situations where you might think they would have one a mindset that appreciates old garden roses is apparently just not there. At least not anymore. For instance a few years ago I made a point of zeroing in on the rose display at a botanical garden in Florida because it was described as being the biggest one in the area, photographed on their web site so as to make it appear a spectacle. I had hoped to see a representative collection of Noisettes and other Southern specialties, hopefully with comprehensive labeling.

Instead it was small and populated mostly by Double Knockout, the other, older cultivars having dwindled down to one or two more or less derelict examples - as though it had been decided to let them all go.

The garden also stank of chemicals and was all hot, bare dirt except for the rose bushes. No sign of mulching or other soil quality maintenance, and very few, if any companion plants that I remember.

Two much larger public rose displays in my area are also all moderns, with a few old roses stuck off to the side - and not labeled much, if at all. And these little dribbles of them may be the result of them having come into fashion for a time, with them otherwise not being represented in these locations at all.

Carol said it all. I feel like a sultan with his harem, but am providing a home for my protegees. Also populating my garden with all the pretty natives I can lay my hands on. Perhaps our little dots of richness will help the horticultural world, and perhaps even the whole world.

Which online nurseries are you looking at Tangles? From what i can see, a lot of the Aus nurseries really haven't adapted to the whole online thing. They only offer via mailing list, or don't update their stock at set times ( plus xmas/new years is barely over, bareroot season is 5 months away, they haven't got round to this years stuff properly yet ). A couple of the ones I used to like browsing through "updated" their online websites into near unusability last year ( lots of pretty pics, much loading time, not much info).

Australia only has a small market, and the old fashioned roses aren't big sellers; most growers want to deal in bulk for a steady paycheck and sell to Bunnings etc.

You may have better luck contacting them directly via email or phone. If you really wanted something, and are prepared to wait, some places will bud special requests.

And theres always cuttings- theres quite a few frequent posters on HMF from Australia, not to mention the Heritage rose society

If you are a fan of old roses, you may be able to help keep them going by being willing to share and trade cuttings with other interested people. The more old roses there are being grown, the more they will be likely to survive. If you have not done so already - and maybe you have - join a heritage roses group. It really can make a difference. I know there are people in Australia with collections of old roses, because I've met some of them. All is not lost.

You're right! I do not know if that was autocorrect at work or my own clumsy fingers, but as you see I have speedily made it go away.

I thought the heritage roses group is only for the people in CA.........I will check it out.

I've often been dismayed by the number of modern rose postings on this websites Antique Rose forum because so many of the postings are about modern roses including a great majority of Austin roses, which are modern by the date of introduction by more than 100 years. When gardeners choose growing an Austin rose or another reproduction, over an Old Garden Rose I wonder if another O.G.R. cultivar is on its' way towards extinction.

That being said I would be perfectly ecstatic if people chose to grow Austin roses with no loss to Old Garden Rose sales, or propagation.

I also noticed that hortico.com, one of the larger nurseries in North America, has steadily dropped a very large percentage of its' Old Garden Roses from its' catalog while increasing the number of Austin rose cultivars to several dozens.

sigh.

Lux.

P.S.I love Austin roses and feel they have a place in most rose gardens.

Somehow I got the impression that DAs were supposed to be discussed here, even though they are new, and the "rose" forum was more for the HTs.

Yes, Sheila, you are correct. There is significant overlap between this and the "more general" Rose forum, but I do notice that the "modern" roses discussed here do have an "air" of the oldies. In some cases, roses which are technically "modern" are still rather old, being as that 1867 dividing line for classes was 150 years ago. So we should expect to see "modern" filtering through to this side, being as many still fit the description of "antique" -- being 100+ years old.

:-)

~Christopher