It's commonly used throughout Europe and I agree with you - it's very good and very easy to use. It's great if you want to make a free-form galette as to opposed to a pie in a dish.

Each step of making a short crust pastry is geared to minimizing gluten development - from using a low-protein flour to the type of fat and the mixing methods. But the general characteristics desired for a pastry are based on using a solid fat (preferably cold hard fat), but oil pastry sure is simple to make and easier to handle, but it has the wrong characteristics for a "great" classic pastry.

The bottom line is to use the type you like for whatever reasons, just don't take an oil crust to the County or State Fair for judging. The judging standards will never be met with an oil pastry. But we don't all make our food to judging standards, so love the one you're with (so-to-speak ;-).

Here's the science...and what makes the difference.

Fat is a tenderizer. When done correctly a good pastry will be a combination of both tenderness and flakiness. When we work a solid fat into the flour it coats the flour. Where the fat coats the flour the water can't be absorbed, which will "shorten" the development of the gluten strands - hence the term "short crust pastry". To assure a pastry is both tender and flaky, mix the fat in two halves. Cut the first half of the solid fat into very small pieces, creating tenderness. Cut the second half in leaving larger pieces to build flakiness. And as always, keep mixing to a minimum so the gluten doesn't develop from over-mixing leaving you with a tough pastry.

When the pastry bakes, the first addition of fat will prevent gluten development when the liquid is added for tenderness, while the second addition will melt, creating pockets of steam, which will lift layers of pastry to create the flakiness.

When you add a liquid fat (whether it's a vegetable oil or a melted solid fat), it ends up coating the flour so well that NO gluten develops. Oil and melted solid fat are considered "warm" fats and give different baking characteristics. Oil creates extremely tender crusts that are easy to cut with a fork, but oil crusts tend to be mealy rather than flaky. An oil crust will crumble rather than have layers of flakes. Don't confuse the blisters on the surface with flakiness, and don't confuse it's dry, fork-tender crumb with flakiness. Flakiness is only developed by the large pieces of solid fat melting in pockets of dough and lifting the layers.

Editing to add: Coconut oil can be used as a solid fat as an animal-free option. In fact, you can reduce the amount of total fat in the recipe by 20-25% and still get good results by using coconut oil. Just keep the coconut oil well-chilled (frozen or refrigerated). You can also melt coconut oil and use it as a liquid oil. If you don't like the mild coconut flavor, use LouAna brand or another flavorless brand like Barlean's Organic Gourmet Coconut Oil (FYI - Barlean's Organic Virgin Coconut oil has a mild coconut flavor).

-Grainlady

I like to use extra virgin olive oil in mine - sometimes diluted w/ a milder oil like sunflower, if I'm running low on the olive. I use that type of pastry for savory dishes like pot pies & turnovers. I have an old recipe from the 50s that instructs you to roll between 2 sheets of waxed paper - no flouring needed.

I have made Tortas d'Aceite - which are sort of a marriage between pastry crust and crackers. They have a very short dough - all olive oil. I love them with tea and at $4.99 for 5 it is worth making them occasionally.

I also use the oil pie crust recipe, except mine calls for milk instead of water. Also, roll out between wax paper which makes it easy to transfer to the pie plate.

I use an oil crust for pies that are not baked, like fresh strawberry pie. The recipe I use is VERY easy, virtually no fail and mess free. It is mixed in the pie pan it is baked in. I don't remember the proportions, but, like suzyqtexas' recipe, it uses milk. Mix the ice cold milk in the oil, whip it (with a hand whip) a bit, until it looks like it's thickening, add to the flour, salt & a bit of sugar that you've measured into the pie pan, and mix, as lightly as possible. Press it out into the pan, prick all over with a fork, and bake. It has a texture almost like a thin shortbread. I've never tried to roll it out, nor have I ever used it for a pie that the filling is baked in the crust, but I don't know why it wouldn't work that way. You could leave the sugar out if you wanted to use it for a savory pie.

I'd be glad to look the recipe up and post it if anyone is interested in the proportions.

Rusty

I use an oil crust and like it. Mine is not noticeably better or worse than my butter crust. I am not a good pastry maker and frankly the difference isn't a big enough deal for me to lose any sleep over it. Do I love a good flaky crust, sure, but life somehow goes on without it!

I've made oil crusts for various Italian savory tarts/pies/whatever. They're fine and were certainly appropriate to the recipes involved, but I actually found them much more difficult to work with than my standard butter or lard crust. Then again, when I first began making those crusts, I found them difficult to work with. I make pastry so often now, though, that I'm pretty sure I could literally do it in my sleep.

Hmmm, so people are making oil crusts. Interesting to read all these accounts, and grainlady's technical explanation. I roll mine out on a floured surface. I honestly do think my recipe makes a good crust, with good flavor and texture. I'm perfectly willing to believe others make better pie crusts than mine, but I don't know those cooks and don't eat their pies, so the thought doesn't make me discontented. This is the tastiest one in my universe. The health aspect is important to me. I practically stopped making pies for some years because I couldn't stand the thought of stuffing all that saturated fat into my body, and doing the same to my husband and daughter. Now we can eat all the pie we want.

Rusty, what's your recipe? It sounds interesting. And agmss15's pastry, too.

Here is a recipe...

http://www.finecooking.com/recipes/spanish-olive-oil-tortas-orange-blossom-water-aniseed.aspx

I find it ironic, and possibly a little nutritionally misguided, to think switching from animal fat to vegetable fat is improving something health wise, that is made with high-glycemic, basically "dead", void of any of the original nutrients and fiber, like the highly-processed flour used to make pastry, but maybe that's just me and my years of milling whole grains to use for real food. -Grainlady

Are we talking about fats here, or about flour? Oils are no more isolated from the rest of the fruit, nut, or grain they come from, than animal fats are separated from the rest of the animal flesh, bone, and gristle, or butterfat from the milk. As far as flours are concerned, the human body seems to have a degree of resilience. Quite a few people eat refined flours and manage to live well and healthily; grains, and food in general, are complex, not responding well to simple solutions, though a given solution may work well for a given person. To call refined flour "dead" is zealotry, and zealotry in any field is often worse than the evil it sets out to cure. We all have busy lives; some of us find quite a bit to do besides optimize our consumption of grain products. Patience, then. Life in imperfect.

Surely olive oil is better for you? Don't people tell us that the mediterranean diet is the healthiest, based on olive oil?

I use this recipe for a yeasted olive oil pastry. you can pull it about all over the place. Very forgiving.

2 tsp dry yeast

1/2 cup lukewarm water

1/2 tsp sugar

1 egg, beaten

1/4 cup olive oil

2 cups flour

3/4 tsp salt

Knead together, adding flour if necessary. Rest 1 hour.

Another - a greek recipe

2 1/4 cups flour

3/4 tsp salt

1/4 cup olive oil

1 tbls red win vinegar, lemon juice or ouzo

3/4 cup water

Mix and knead until smooth. Just a minute should do.Rest 1 hour.

Nutrition, food and health are funny things. Peoples views on such can be all over the map. Some look for at least a "better" fat, some view fat as rather empty of nutrition no matter what and it is not uncommon for people to take it very personally when someone's view of the matter differs from their own. I find the topic is almost as taboo as religion and politics.

Nutrition aside, I see potential in an oil crust and do need to spend some time working with one (especially the yeasted one, I wonder how it would do with gluten free flours?). From a taste perspective, there are likely times when the different flavor would compliment certain things better. It would also be handy to perfect for those times when my butter stash is getting low and I want to preserve it for other things. I figure the more items in my cooking arsenal, the better for those who eat what I prepare.

Melissa, here's the recipe I use:

No Roll Pie Crust*

Yield: One 9" crust.

1 ½ C All Purpose Flour

! ½ Tbsp sugar

½ tsp salt

½ C salad oil

2 Tbsp ice cold milk

Put flour, sugar and salt into pie pan. Mix oil and cold milk together. Add to dry ingredients in pan, mix together. Pat dough out to fit pan. Flute edges and prick all over. Bake at 350 degrees for 15 minutes, or until lightly browned.

* This is an easy to make crust, good to use for fresh strawberry pie, any pie that needs an already baked shell. It doesn’t work very good for fruit pies, or any kind that bakes in the crust. (The comment about fruit pies was from my friend, I haven't tried it.)

I got this recipe from a friend that used to cater the lunches in the lunchroom of an arts & crafts shop I used to volunteer in. She made the best Millionaire Pie in the world! ! ! And she used this crust for it.

Rusty

Islay Corbel-

I would never use olive oil in baking due to the free radical formation when it is exposed to heat. People assume since olive oil is given the status as one of the "healthy fats" (and correctly so) because it is primarily a monounsaturated fatty acid, therefore it is much less susceptible to free-radical formation. The free radical formation happens when it is used in cooking as heat quickly oxidizes olive oil, which increases platelet stickiness, and raises the risks associated with heart disease. Olive oil is best eaten raw in salad dressings or as a flavoring, not heated.

Olive oil is, like all fats/oils, composed of a mix of dietary fats:

14% saturated, 77% monounsaturated, 9% polyunsaturated

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/asktheexpert/what-heating-point-do-free-radicals-form

Question:

I understand olive oil is able to withstand moderate heat before free radicals are formed. Your web site mentions about smoking point and boiling point of olive oil. I would like to know if the smoking point is the temperature at which free radicals start to form?

Source:

Olive Oil News

Answer:

As with most chemical reactions, free radical formation can occur at any temperature (even when refrigerated) but is greatly accelerated as the temperature goes up and the longer it stays there. There is no set threshold.

Melissa-

To quote you, The health aspect is important to me. But not the negative aspects of the main ingredient - highly-processed white flour. REALLY?

To call refined flour "dead" is zealotry,

I disagree. When flour is 'refined', the living part of the wheat, the wheat germ, is removed. The germ is the the part of the plant, the embryo so to speak, that will sprout and grow into a new plant and it is the part of the grain where most of the nutritional goodies are concentrated.

agmss15, Rusty, Islay Corbel, thanks for the recipes. Pinkmountain, well, I don't eat pie three meals a day. But pie is our main sweet: we don't do cakes, muffins, cookies, soft drinks, candy, etc. in our house, and even with pie I make only fruit pies and keep a light hand with the sugar. Our per person consumption of refined sugar is well below that of the recommendations. But returning to pie, I find it has a place in my diet. As I've gotten older I've found that my appetite for carbohydrates has dropped significantly--I used to adore pasta and rice, but no more, and I've gotten downright intolerant of sugar--while I still eat plenty of fat, almost all of it oil: olive oil in particular flows in rivers in our household. Much of my diet nowadays is vegetables and legumes. Pie, made of chiefly of fruit, grain, and oil, does quite well in this mixture. As always it's a matter of the whole picture. My husband, older than me, and my adolescent daughter, eat in a fashion similar to mine. All of us are fit and a healthy weight, have good blood pressure and blood sugar levels, and plenty of energy.

Possibly those who are concerned about the nutritional value of the flour used to make pie crust failed to notice what I wrote in my original post: "flour (I use soft wheat all purpose and soft wheat whole wheat, in any proportions)". This crust can be made with all whole wheat flour: I've done it. My usual practice is to use half whole wheat and half all purpose soft wheat, but as I wrote, you can vary the proportions to suit yourself. I would, however, stick with soft wheat flours. I'm sorry I can't be more specific about kinds of flour, but they're different in Italy and I'm not sure what the U.S. equivalents are.

I don't know about the others you mention, but I have no opinion or concern about how much you do or do not eat pie!

Interesting that you say you've lost your taste for carbs. I wish I could lose my taste for carbs! When I was younger I didn't seem to have the taste for carbs and sweets as much as I do now. It's like an addiction with me now and I could easily manage my diet back in my younger days. With just me living alone I don't make pie much. I've had pies mold on me before I could eat them all up. One slice a day takes 8 days for a single person to finish a pie. By then it's not quite the same! I could make small pies and freeze them but I barely have the patience to make a big pie. I live in the fruit belt and we make some mighty good pies. We've had some epic pie threads on this forum over the years, I think one of them was on everyone's favorite. I'd be hard pressed to pick one, but peach, apple, rhubarb and blueberry are probably tied for tops, but nothing beats warm pumpkin to me. I also love pecan. But a slice of fruit pie is going to run you 400 calories give or take, and I'm not even talkin' whipped cream or ice cream! But anyway, I would love to live in a house full of pie lovers and pie bakers. That would mean I would eat it more often!!

LPink, I try to lessen the damage by making a REALLY thin crust. Like you, I love pies. Any sort of pie from sweet to savoury. If I go to heaven, I will be surrounded by pies! I use the very rich buttery crust I've posted before for making pies and roll it really thin so the calorie value is much reduced. I line the pie moulds (individual) with strips of paper so I can get the more delicate pies out. Plus, I'm lucky in that I don't like very sweet things so I put very little sugar in the pies. Where there's a will, there's a way LOL