Hi EVERYBODY – newbies need help with kitchen layout please
My spouse and I (and if we are lucky, eventually some little ones too) are building a house for the first time. We also have retirement age parents that spend a lot of time with us (hence the first floor guest room). We like symmetry and simplicity.
Kindly provide us with feedback on our kitchen. We have attached two plans, one with the half bath toward the front of the house and one with it closer to the garage. The rest of the house is identical.
Here is the general kitchen layout - The main wall with windows has a centered cooktop and a microwave/oven combination on the far right. The space in between would be a nice expanse for baking activities. We will likely have open shelving on either side of the cooktop. Perpendicular to the cooktop wall, close to the microwave/oven combo, is a shorter wall with the refrigerator and “beverage area.” The sink is in the island where we would like seating for four chairs opposite the sink and cook top and one or two chairs on the short side of the island furthest from the refrigerator. All lowers will be drawers unless we find this to be cost prohibitive. Likely the cabinets will be simple and white with black stone or gray stone counter tops, subway tile with dark grout.
And here are my specific questions:
1. Prep sink?
As of now, there is one sink in the kitchen and it is centered on the island which will also house the dishwasher, trash, and recycle. The island is a single height. My burning question is whether or not this should instead be a prep sink, slightly offset from center more toward the refrigerator, with a work sink on the same wall as the cooktop, furthest from the pass through to the flex room. This would require some rejiggering of the window placement since I think one would need to center the sink under a window and still leave enough room for the dishwasher and a landing area beside the cooktop. I'm concerned that this will mess up the symmetry. The main motivation here is that the island is likely where we will eat so it would be nice to have dirty dishes tucked away in a sink that is not in the island. If you added a prep sink to the kitchen, would you then remove it from the butler pantry pass through to the flex room? Four sinks (including the one in the laundry) seems like a lot of sinks!
2. Butler pantry or tech space or something else?
I see the wall with the window in the pass-through from the kitchen to the flex room (which will be used as an office since I am a telecommuter) as a place to put appliances like a toaster, rice cooker, blender on the counter top. This area is also for storage of lesser used plate ware, so I think we will have cabinets rather than open shelves. On the other side, there is space for a pantry. I wonder if the appliance area should be a desk area instead. This would be a duplication for our needs since I will use the flex room as an office, but we have tried to design a home that has some flexibility for future owners. I imagine others might use the flex room as a dining room with a more formal butler’s pantry, a bar, or tech space in the pass through. The guest area could be used as an office/den as well.
3. Half bath – front or back of house? (I put this question here because it impacts the pantry, but just let me know if I should ask elsewhere.)
There are two options for the half bath. A square room just beyond the kitchen toward the garage or a narrow rectangle room across from the stairwell. Which do you think is more sensible? The rectangle half bath closer to the front of the home would make the pantry smaller and would take up the space for the HVAC chase return. This would then require a second unit on the second floor, which I am not thrilled about the added cost, but the current chase return is in an awkward location impacting one of the second bedrooms so it might be worth it. With this configuration, the square half bath in the back is now a “pocket office” but I think this is way too small for this purpose. Does it make more sense to just combine the pocket office with the laundry?
Happy also to hear comments about the floor plan in general.
I so very much look forward to your feedback.
Comments (34)
mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI like the powder room nearer the front entry, for the convenience of visitors.
As for symmetry in the kitchen, can you center the island and dining table on a larger center window, with the range on one side, and a prep sink on the other, and smaller windows beyond? You could have your open shelves above the prep sink, which would help balance the hood. You'll be prepping with a view, but the prep sink and clean-up sink/dw could be switched, if you'd prefer to prep on the island.
Click to enlarge:
5vanval5
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Trying again- newbie needs layout advice- please & Thanks!
Comments (5)Oh, yes, I wasn't following the description that well, and was looking at the labels on the pictures. The dairy sink being the separate one makes sense. I also totally missed the 24" dishwasher on the plan. So sorry about that! Ignore entirely what I said about it. That's why I ask questions. Besides learning more, I also get my mistakes fixed. :) And it helps my approach to know that your rabbi requires separate dishwashers. That pretty well points to the other requirements you have. :) One really important piece of advice: Have a backup plan for Pesach. Unless you're much further along than you sound like, you're in the zone of if everything goes right. Make a plan for what to do if things go wrong and you're not in your new kitchen in time. At least if the sinks and appliances are in on time you'll be able to cook ahead. :) Re the overhang (which doesn't show at all on my screen), 30cm should be adequate. It's a little tight, for long term comfort, but so is the width. For squeezing in a few kids for breakfast or baking it should be fine. OTOH, I have many fond memories of my mother bringing the mixer to the table so that we could make hamentashen, cookies and other fun things. If you're kneading by hand, you might like doing that on the table better than the counter unless you're tall. My optimal height for kneading or rolling is 33", which is halfway between the standards for table and counter. I figured out, however, since I have a carpet under the table and don't want to bake there, that I could use my counter by wearing tall clogs, rather than having a special, lower, baking counter. :) Can you explain more about how the range and window will interact? Do you ever kasher the oven for dairy baking? Would you ever consider getting a wall oven rather than the toaster oven? I know there are budget limitations, but sometimes you can build what works for you now then allows for an easy transition to a planned change in the future. The big problem with the toaster oven niche is the heat. Toaster ovens aren't usually well insulated and they throw a lot of heat around all sides. OTOH, if you have a niche big enough to transition into an oven later, it should work well for either. I think the whole niche should be lined with tile for it to be safe for the toaster oven. That's five sides. The whole plan makes much more sense to me now that I know that the L is the dairy zone. If you had enough produce for that to be your parve zone, I'd think you had a farm and could process it outside. :) Yes, the whole thing makes a lot more sense now. I can definitely see all the baking and dairy meals in that area. I just think you're going to need a bigger dairy oven as your kids get bigger. Teenagers are a lot like goats--they'll eat anything and everything and leave a wasteland behind them. Is the dairy cooktop induction? The boil time would be great for pasta, and it's really wonderful to cook on in general. You can melt chocolate or make toffee (matzah toffee!!! major crowd pleaser) without a double boiler on induction, for instance. The biggest issues I see for the perimeter flow are the path from the stove to the dining room, which I assume is outside the bottom opening, since the other is the laundry. (Do you have a kitchen porch? Or is that the laundry? Or does it open off the laundry?) I'm thinking the straight path is going to be handing things across the peninsula, which isn't a good idea, dripwise. I'm not understanding the prep flow, though. If the parve sink is on the right, then it's the parve counter that runs by the stove? And if you wash meat on the meat side, and then carry it through the parve zone, does that make sense? Or do I have it backwards still? Regarding pantry size, the amount of pantry storage you need is just a bit more than your cabinet will hold. Do you have a makolet (sp?) on your block? That relieves a lot of the storage pressure. 60 cm really isn't enough for a family of 8 for American style, shop once a week, storage. If you can send a kid out for a can of whatever six days a week, it's a lot easier. The best way to know if it'll do is to start with the must haves. If your baking supplies will be in the pantry, for instance, group them together as if they're on the right sized shelves and see how much room they take up. Do the same with all your staples. Since you won't have drawers (roll out tray shelves), consider collecting boxes that will fit that you can slide in and out...but remember, either one takes up some of the shelf width. One way to gain more room in the kitchen is to find some space elsewhere for the cookbooks. You can copy out your most used recipes and put them in a single binder. Keeps your books clean, too. :) That takes a lot less space than all the books. I'm not assuming you have room for them elsewhere, but if you can find it, you'll have more pantry space. I think you've done a good job of squeezing things in, covering your requirements and staying on budget. I keep thinking of ways to change things around, but they start to compromise that. Regarding the backsplash and corner by the range, tile before you put the range in, including behind the riser. Just let it be what it is. It'll be much more comfortable to cook with the range away from the wall, even if it's just by that little bit, the tray cabinet is good to have, and it gives you a place for a spoon rest and a trivet on the far side. As to colors, the Formica sounds like a good color. I was asking about the floor because that ubiquitous stone (agreed about the ignorable factor) is nice and light and should look fine with the color you're describing which is more toward a medium value. I think you could go with either the black or the blizzard white (very low speckle factor) Caesarstone and have it look good. The black will be snazzier, but show more streaks. OTOH, the white can yellow over time and exposure to sunlight. It sounds like it will be attractive, warm and pleasant. Too much "character" in a small, busy kitchen can be overwhelming. Your neutrals should have enough variation not to be boring, and enough boring to be calm amid the chaos....See MoreNeed kitchen remodel layout help, please. Sketches and pics included!
Comments (8)Thanks for the advice, Kristine! I moved some things around in the Ikea planner like you suggested. Your suggestion for the fridge location is where my fridge is currently located. I moved it in my original plan because I dislike how much it sticks out into the middle of the room. I could probably solve that issue by getting a counter-depth fridge. I need to do more research on that because I am concerned that we won't have enough fridge space with a counter depth model. I frequently put cookie sheets in the fridge and they take up the entire depth of my current fridge (a side-by-side model). I think I could fit them in a counter depth fridge if I got the kind with 2 french doors on the top and the freezer on the bottom. I moved the wall oven/micro over to the far left wall because I didn't want to make the peninsula any shorter than it already is. It is only 6 feet and any smaller seems like it won't be long enough. I would like to be able to have enough space for 6 girls to be working around it at one time and 6 feet will already be tight (3 girls on each side). I do really like moving the cooktop to the far left wall as well. It seems to give me a lot more bottom drawers for storage along the top wall which would be great. I was only able to fit an 18" cabinet between the cooktop and the wall oven. I'm not sure that is enough space on that side. I think I remember seeing that 24" of working space should be the minimum. I could get more space by using a range instead, but I don't really like that setup. I frequently use both the oven and the stovetop at the same time with 2 people cooking. So the person using the stovetop is always in the way of the person trying to open the oven. I would really like to have the 2 separated....See MoreNeed help finalizing kitchen layout please! Stuck on uppers vs none
Comments (83)If what you like is a one-wall kitchen with an island, that is possible. You'd have a super long island that is 3' deep and way roomier walkways (4') around the island. If you did that, I'd just make the nook a straight windowseat. Like this: The island has legs on one end for seating like this: The bay window provides extra space needed to walk comfortably behind the island seating. I'd add another doorway into the dining room, since that is now your primary eating area. You want non-cooking traffic to be able to get back and forth without entering your kitchen work zones. And I think you'll generally like the greater visibility and circular flow between rooms. If you orient the island drawer stack closest to the dining room so it opens toward the dining room, you'll be able to unload the dishwasher directly into that. And glasses can go in the pantry, which is just a step or two further. The pantry is floor-to-ceiling cabinets and around 12" deep. That's great pantry storage - stores a ton, and it's easy to see everything with nothing lost in the back. Note that the downsides are: - You lost a hallway closet and deepened the other hallway closet in order to elongate the one-wall part of the kitchen. You wouldn't have to do this if you lose the wall ovens, but I assume you don't want that. - It's going to be complicated to vent the range hood. - You'll need to get a fridge with one door and drawer freezer so they don't bang the open dishwasher. Or make peace with not opening the fridge and dishwasher at the same time....See MorePlease help with kitchen layout! Starting renovations and need help
Comments (2)Can you take some space from the living room? If the stub wall must be 30", you could put a full-height cabinet on the LR side, and extend a peninsula to the point where the door was. If you need a support post for a beam, it could be incorporated into the seating overhang (plan on left). However, if the stub wall can be eliminated, or if only a support post is necessary on the exterior wall, you could extend the peninsula farther into the LR, and make the remainder of the room a dining area. With seating at the peninsula, the nook could be converted to storage and serving. areas (plan on right). Another option (on right), would be to keep the sink under the window and put the fridge on the stair wall. The fridge would be a trek from the range, but adding a sink to the peninsula would give you a better prep space, and the fridge would be more convenient to the FR and new DR. NKBA guidelines New to Kitchens? Read me first....See More5vanval5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years ago
sena01
8 years agoI'd prefer the PR and pantry locations in your first layout. Although that would mean carrying the groceries a little further, I think it's better than crowding the mudroom/entry hall while trying to fit groceries in a smaller pantry. Also, if you or a future owner decide to use the flex room as DR, keeping the fridge on the short wall would be better IMO.
If you move the clean up sink+DW to the cooktop counter and have a prep sink on the island, you can consider an 8' island with 3 seats facing the cooktop counter and 2 facing the short wall. In a house with future kids and elder people, I think it's a good idea to have a sink on the cooktop counter.
I'm thinking something like this.
5vanval5 thanked sena01
Buehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agohuango
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years ago
cpartist
8 years agoJust off the top of my head, I would probably move the table into the flex room right now and put your piano front and center in the great room. Make your piano the star in the room.
Use the flex room as your dining room since you don't use it that often.
Then I'd probably put a prep sink on the island with your cooktop centered as you had it. I'd move the ovens down to the left side and put the cleanup sink on the right with the dw to the right of the sink. You don't need a window over a cleanup sink as you spend maybe 10 minutes a day cleaning up. Put a pretty shelf or a dish rack or a pretty tile arrangement over the cleanup sink.
I'd make the laundry room into one long room and move the W/D against the outside wall. You could also just enclose it with pocket doors and have the mudroom/laundry as one large room.
I'd ditch the pantry sink and just have the pantry as one large pantry/butler's pantry.
You have room to make the guest room larger. I did so in the plan. Yes it's not equal but you'll never notice it when you're actually walking into the room. Trust me on that. You don't view your space from the ceiling. That automatically narrows the foyer and since the door opens against the guest room, that too will help you not see that it's not "equal".
5vanval5 thanked cpartist5vanval5
8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago5vanval5
8 years ago5vanval5
8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agosena01
8 years ago
CEFreeman_GW DC/MD Burbs 7b/8a
8 years ago5vanval5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH