I was hoping that this mix would be something that would stand out and make my yard one of the nicest on my street. When I went to the sod farm they said that this was one of their best seeds they sell. I wanted something that will be darker green than the average lawn.

I am still an amateur at this. I was going to use Scott's seed for my renovation but have learned a lot from reading different forums.

I have a slit seeder coming Saturday to get the seed down. Do you think this mix will stand out compared to an average lawn? I know a lot of work will have to be done for a nice lawn. I just want to make sure my seed will give me the ability to have a really nice lawn

>>Do you think this mix will stand out compared to an average lawn? I know a lot of work will have to be done for a nice lawn. I just want to make sure my seed will give me the ability to have a really nice lawn

Yes. I managed Best In Neighborhood on the original builder's grade seed they used to seed my original lawn, which was pretty much garbage. With the elite seed, I manage Best In City.

However, for that, proper care is absolutely critical, along with a soil test to balance the soil properly (we prefer Logan Labs and if you read the results scattered all over the place on this forum, there's usually work to be done).

Seed down was a disaster. Rented a slit seeder and it dumped half the seed on a turn. I used the slit seeder to go over the whole lawn to rough it up and then just used a broadcast spreader to spread the seed that wasn't lost.

Any ideas on what to do so I don't completely mess this up?

Sorry to hear that. When you first posted, I missed that you were going to slit seed or I would have chimed in and given you a heads up. You finally ended up doing what I would have advised, without the initial disaster. Water over the bridge now. Drop your starter fertilizer at bag recommended rate and keep the soil/seed moist. The Rye will germinate first and the KBG can take 2-3 weeks longer, so don't stop watering just because you see first growth.

You could roll to insure seed/soil contact or topdress with 1/4" or less of peat moss to aid moisture retention as both can somewhat help improve the odds of success, but it certainly isn't necessary. Keep the seed bed moist.

Relax. Have a Scotch.

>>Seed down was a disaster. Rented a slit seeder and it dumped half the seed on a turn. I used the slit seeder to go over the whole lawn to rough it up and then just used a broadcast spreader to spread the seed that wasn't lost.

Any ideas on what to do so I don't completely mess this up?

Were you able to retrieve a good portion of the spilled seed? It's not much of a consideration, but that patch is going to have far too many sprouts in it, which are going to compete, be far more susceptible to damp off fungus, and more susceptible to fungi until the patch thins out.

It's much worse if you do that to the entire lawn (and yes, people sometimes seed at very high rates that definitely aren't recommended), but it is a potential starting point for disease on your new turf stand.

Keep an eye on that area rather closely and don't hesitate to yell for help if you see things that look like small spiderwebs all over it, or if portions of it suddenly collapse and die for no obvious reason.

It's not very likely, but better safe than sorry.

Other than that, water, sit, relax, chillax, water again. The job is done.

I would say I saved about 2/3 of the seed. I don't know what I ended up spreading the remaining seed at. I had 75 lbs for .35 acres and I lost a good portion of a 25lb bag. I used my scotts spreader and set it on the 5.5 setting and just had enough to get a light to decent covering on the yard.

I guess we will see if it was enough. I don't know if I should just let it go or try to get a little more and spread it.

Let's see...assume worst case, that you lost a full 25 pounds (which you didn't). Leaving 50 pounds for 0.35 acres, or 15,225 square feet.

Which is 3.28 pounds per thousand square feet, of (by weight) half KBG, half rye. Or 1.14 pounds each of KBG and rye.

Recommended rates are 3.5 to 5 pounds for rye if seeded alone (1.75 to 2.5 if seeded as a 50% weight mix). For KBG, 1 to 3 pounds per thousand if seeded alone (0.5 to 1.5 pounds if seeded as a 50% weight mix).

Off the cuff? While you're a touch low on the rye, you're well in range for the KBG. In the long run, it's going to produce a slightly more KBG-dominated lawn...which I don't think will disappoint you in the slightest. Bluegrasses spread if well-fed very, very easily. Barring reseeding, over time the lawn would end up bluegrass dominated anyway as the bluegrass spreads in if anything in the lawn dies. Rye doesn't.

Overall conclusion--it may be a little thin at first, but any new lawn is anyway. Feed well and by May of next year you'll be very happy with it.

Morpheus,

Thank you I feel a little better now. I really truly was pretty upset with myself. I thought I knew what I was doing and I was pretty wrong. Do you think it would be worth it to get a little more seed to spread or just let it go?

Let it go. Like I said, you're well within normal range on the KBG and fine on the rye as well. And you did retrieve about two thirds of the seed you dropped, so you really only lost about eight pounds out of 75. That's not very significant and the numbers are actually much rosier than I calculated above (which would be fine even if it were correct with the pessimistic numbers).

The only issue you might have is that you don't have any leftover seed for areas that don't come in well. While no area will feature absolutely zero sprout, very thin areas (and you'll have them) will take much longer to fill in.

You can either get a little more seed for those areas, or plan on feeding them (organically!) very, very well to speed spreading, and fighting more weeds in those areas until they do fill in.

You will want some seed for the inevitable thin spots. If seed is kept in a cool dry area, it can remain viable for a couple of years. (germination rates drop off,but rather slowly with proper storage.) It's best to get it now as seed sources will often change mixes and blends (ask me how I know, lol) and your mix may not be available next Spring.

Thank you everyone for the help and advice. I have been watering the lawn and keeping the soil moist. I just hope that with the slit seeder not working the way I wanted that the seeds will get enough contact with the soil. My lawn was nuked and it was cut at the lowest setting on my mower and bagged. I guess this is just the hard part sitting and waiting to see what happens since I know things didn't go according to planned. I keep sitting and thinking should I put a top dressing on or will the dead grass work? Did the seeds get enough soil contact to germinate. Sorry for the rambling but hoping this will all come out ok.

>>I keep sitting and thinking should I put a top dressing on or will the dead grass work? Did the seeds get enough soil contact to germinate. Sorry for the rambling but hoping this will all come out ok.

Welcome to Renovation Panic. This is where we talk you off the ledge.

Top dressing isn't a bad idea, but it's not necessary. It's most important if you can't water appropriately or have a slightly unreliable watering system. It's insurance.

The seeds got enough contact to generate. No problem.

Did you notice the shape of the seeds, long and skinny, like a javelin? That's to reach the soil in nature, through a thick mat of dead grass and other plants, and then adhere on dry soil well enough to stay put.

It had no trouble going through a prepped and scalped seed bed. None. Zero. Rolling, if you did it, just improved the contact, but that would happen anyway as you water.

Starting to feel a lot better. Grass is starting to sprout where there was bare soil. Hopefully soon it will start to poke through the dead grass.

Morpheus I personally want to thank you for being a voice of reason and giving good advice.

You're quite welcome!

Now is the time when you gradually turn from contentment to panic for a short period. In your case, the rye will help keep the panic limited, it's a fast sprouting, fast developing grass. In a week, it'll look pretty well-sprouted. In a month, you have a lawn.

The bluegrass takes friggin' forever. It just sits there, not doing much, for weeks. Then it suddenly explodes and matures.

I guess I do have another question. With me being new to lawn care what steps should I take for the rest of the year? When I seeded I put down Scott's starter fertilizer with crabgrass control. All I have ever known is Scott's weed and feed and after reading this board a whole new world has opened up to me. I want to make sure that I do things properly and use better products than Scott's, or use Scott's products if they are ok to use. I have read so many different things it can be overwhelming. I've been told that the KBG will need Nitrogen and I honestly don't know where to begin once the lawn gets established.

Since you haven't historically been organic, this fall has some limited options that will change next year. You can use Milorganite (which has a good proportion of faster nitrogen and enough organics to sustain the feeding), or any good synthetic fertilizer.

Either a full, bag rate application of Milorganite 1 month after the seeding date, or a 1/2 rate application of any synthetic, nitrogen-dominant fertilizer. For a synthetic, the numbers would look like 24-0-4 or something like that, with the first number far higher than the others (what that first number actually is, or the others, doesn't really matter). I don't care what brand you use, really, and I tend to get the cheapest. That's usually Lesco or Vigoro, but it does vary.

Pure urea (46-0-0) is by far the cheapest and most potent, but it's so potent that you have to be extremely careful with it. Application rates are 2.2 pounds per thousand square feet...and no more. Accidents will burn.

Next May, as the grass has matured, the options change. You can use any organic you like around May 1 to 15th, or you can use any nitrogen-heavy synthetic around Memorial Day.

Synthetics are instantly available (or at least within a few days max) so they go later. Organics take three weeks or so to decay enough to become available, so they're timed a little earlier.

You can continue on with synthetics or organics in fall (organically, August 1. Synthetically, Labor Day). Dealer's choice.

I have a strong preference for organics, but they're more massive and not what everybody wants to use. There's nothing wrong with synthetics when used properly, but it's wise to check your soil through Logan Labs occasionally as most synthetics will slowly shift your soil chemistry to far less compatible for the grass.

So far it has been almost 10 days and the PRG is really comeing up in spots. Some areas are getting long and look like they may need to be mowed soon and then I have some areas where there is a green tint and the PRG is slowly starting to come through the dead grass and then a couple other areas where nothing has grown at all.

The areas where there is a green tint I have just let go and hope that it will grow a little better now that it is starting to get cooler and there may actually be some rain. Now the areas where I haven't had any growth should I rake it clean and get rid of the dead grass there and throw more seed down or just give it some time?

A bit more time is called for, ten days isn't at all unreasonable. Those areas may be the slightest bit dry, so check them. Or they could be a tiny hair too hot (or too cold, but too hot is much more likely in this weather pattern). In that case, assuming adequate water, they'll just take more time.

We all get the mystery patches in our renovations where the grass doesn't come in very fast for no apparent reason. It's nothing to worry about too much unless you're hitting day 14 with no sprout at all.

Morpheus:

Keep an eye on that area rather closely and don't hesitate to yell for help if you see things that look like small spiderwebs all over it, or if portions of it suddenly collapse and die for no obvious reason.

I am starting to see this in the 2 areas where a lot of the seed was dropped into the yard. It looks like small spiderwebs and it is killing all the grass around it. Just wondering what I should do to stop/prevent further damage?

Thanks,

Damp off fungus. It's really common in areas where the grass got seeded too heavily.

Depending on the size and severity of the problem, there are a couple of different solutions.

Small area, minor problem: Sprinkle cinnamon (or turmeric, but cinnamon works better) on the area. Cinnamon is an extremely mild antifungal.

Modest area and/or moderate problem: 2 tsp hydrogen peroxide per quart of water, water the area.

Small to large area, severe problem: Daconil or Triforine will kill the fungus and are pretty gentle on seedlings. Use the lowest mix rate, the fungus is extremely weak.

Most people come here with problems in mature lawns. I put the following together for them. Go ahead and read it, but remember it's not for you, yet. Wait at least until next spring to start with the watering guide.

Basics of Lawn Care

After reading numerous books and magazines on lawn care, caring for lawns at seven houses in my life, and reading numerous forums where real people write in to discuss their successes and failures, I have decided to side with the real people and dispense with the book and magazine authors. I don't know what star their planet rotates around but it's not mine. With that in mind, here is the collected wisdom of the Internet savvy homeowners and lawn care professionals summarized in a few words. If you follow the advice here you will have conquered at least 50% of all lawn problems. Once you have these three elements mastered, then you can worry about weeds (if you have any), dog spots, and striping your lawn. But if you are not doing these three things, they will be the first three things suggested for you to correct.

1. Watering
Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an inch in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. Do not spread this out and water for 10 minutes every day. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. If that does not work, then you might have to water more than once per week during the summer's hottest period. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds.

You will have to learn to judge when to water your own lawn. If you live in El Paso your watering will be different than if you live in Vermont. Adjust your watering to your type of grass, temperature, humidity, wind, and soil type. It is worth noting that this technique is used successfully by professionals in Phoenix, so...just sayin.' The other factors make a difference. If you normally water 1 inch per week and you get 1/2 inch of rain, then adjust and water only 1/2 inch that week.

2. Mowing
Every week mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. However, bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses will become the most dense when they are mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. In fact there are special mowers that can mow these grasses down to 1/16 inch. Dense grass shades out weeds, keeps the soil cooler, and uses less water than thin grass. Tall grass can feed the deep roots you developed in #1 above. Tall grass does not grow faster than short grass nor does it look shaggy sooner. Once all your grass is at the same height, tall grass just looks plush.

3. Fertilizing
Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 5 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above. Follow the directions on the bag and do not overdo it (unless you use organics in which case you may overdo it without fear of hurting anything).

At this point you do not have to worry about weed and feed products - remember at this point you are just trying to grow grass, not perfect it. Besides once you are doing these three things correctly, your weed problems should go away without herbicide.

Okay back to me again. If you want to have the yard of the month and are afraid of organic fertilizer, don't be. On another lawn care forum they have a showcase of lawn pictures. The lawns were selected for their color and general appearance. As it turns out, every one of them was organic. Being organic was not a criterion, but that's the way it happened. Here's the first of 2 motivational pictures.

The second picture is morpheuspa's organic lawn in the middle of summer.

I went out and bought a reel mower to mow the PRG when it is ready. I have a couple of spots now where it is really thick and probably needs to be mowed. Mostly around the areas where the seed was dumped or applied really heavy from the slit seeder. Should I keep the PRG around 1.5 inches so the KBG can sprout and get established or should I go longer/shorter?

1.5" is fine for a first mow to allow the KBG time to catch up (it's quite slow). Fortunately, the new grass is still thin, so it's not overshadowing the KBG too badly yet!

This is an article describing the benefits of the KBG and PR mix. It recommends that the PR be kept at a short cut until the KBG becomes established. Otherwise, the PR will take all the sunlight and out compete the KBG before that grass can put up a fight.

http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/mitgc/article/1990184.pdf

Be sure to continue to apply frequent watering as the KBG is just getting started.

Here are a couple pics of my yard. It is slowly coming in. I think it looks better than what the pictures show. Sorry the pics are sideways.

Photos rarely catch the little sprouts that your eye can see, and yes, that looks great!

You're on Day 18, so the non-KBG grasses should be in by now. There are sprouts in the currently brown areas, yes?

Yes there are sprouts in the brown areas. I think the dead grass was a little too thick in some of those areas. About a 10 days after the original seeding I went and raked the brown areas where there wasn't any sign of growth and put a little more seed and they are now sprouting. Most of the brown areas have a green tint to them. I think (hope) in the next few days they will catch up to the rest of the yard.

Morpheus you said the full bag rate application of Milorganite 1 month after the seeding date, which is this Saturday. My question is do I do the rate for a new yard which would be 36lbs per 1250 sq ft? I am assuming this is what I would do but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't be putting down too much.

Thanks,

Dealer's choice! I think it'd be a good idea to go somewhat higher than average, but not quite that high. Call it 20 pounds per thousand square feet, or 1 bag to cover 1,800 square feet.

But if you want to apply at 1 per 1,250, that's great. 1 per 2,500 is also great.

What I'm saying here is that it's really hard to mess up when using Milo. Any of the above rates will work very well, and whatever you prefer is absolutely fine.

Updated Pictures

Here are updates pics