Please Critique Low-Volt (Home Automation) Plan/Proposal

9 years ago

GW/Houzz Community,

As always, I want to thank this community in advance as you guys have been a great help throughout my build and are a big part in making my "dream home" truly my "DREAM HOME". That being said I come back to the guru's for some advice.

I currently have the electricians doing the rough electrical as we speak on our 3 level, 3100sq. ft. home (4 bed, 3.5 bath) and I have an interest in home automation/av/security/lighting control, etc.

I've spent a couple weeks speaking with several Home Automation/AV Experts and have come to the decision on 1 provider. I am attaching both the home floor layouts and the Pre-Wire & Installation Proposal as I'd like your thoughts on both general feedback but also what I may be missing or what they are spec'ing in their proposal that should be changed, etc.

Goal: To have the home pre-wired for futureproofing and eventual home automation (although I don't think I'm going to do with the "Do It For You" Control4 Professional route all at once). I don't want to beholden myself to 1 provider and i'd like more control in what I build/add, etc. I'm thinking I'll eventually do a central rack in the basement with whole home integrated audio, Lutron RadioRA2 Lighting Control, FrontPoint Security Wireless Security/Smoke Detectors/CO2, etc. with another user interface program (not sure which yet).

Thanks for all feedback on their proposal in regards to how they are proposing setting everything up as well as equip. feedback if you feel anything is out of line there as well.

Thanks in Advance!

Andrew!

House Floorplans Layout:

1st Floor:

Second Floor:

Third Floor:

Pre-Wire Proposal:

Installation Proposal:

Installation Proposal Page 2:

Installation Proposal Page 3 (Final Price)

Featured Answer

Andrew K.
Original Author

9 years ago

If anyone knows how to make pictures look bigger or be able to zoom I'm open to suggestions as these are 8.5" x 11" pictures that are hosted on PhotoBucket.

My PhotoBucket URL is here if you want to look at them there:

Andrew's PhotoBucket

My name on that site is KuhnAndrew5 if that doesn't work. Thanks

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Comments (18)

ontariomom
9 years ago
I sure wish I could read these. Is there anyway to make it bigger? Maybe there is a tool on Houzz to increase the size that I have not yet discovered.

Carol
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ontariomom
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi Andrew,

Have you tried uploading the documents directly from your computer's hard drive? From what I was told when I asked a Houzz rep about uploading from PhotoBucket, Houzz was not set up for that (not sure why when you have done it). She advised me to upload my photos etc directly from my hard drive by clicking on the Photo button (which takes me to the files on my hard drive). Not sure about using a Mac for this, but it works for Windows desktop.

The link below will take you to a thread where they are discussing the ins and outs of uploading images in this new Houzz world, and the frustration others were experiencing with trying to use PhotoBucket. Some on that thread posted about using Mac computers.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2830259/what-are-your-thoughts-with-this-new-format?n=155

Carol

P.S. When I went to your link for your Photobucket it took me to my PhotoBucket account. I did not try putting in your account name.
Andrew K.
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Carol,

Thanks for the heads up. New images uploaded to Houzz. (Apparently the new forum won't allow us to edit the original post after 9+ hours) so now I have to re-post all the pics. Thanks again.

First Floor:
GardenWeb Threads · More Info

Second Floor:

GardenWeb Threads · More Info

Third Floor:

GardenWeb Threads · More Info

Pre-Wire Proposal:

GardenWeb Threads · More Info

Home Automation Proposal:

GardenWeb Threads · More Info

GardenWeb Threads · More Info
geoffrey_b
9 years ago
I'll say this as a computer scientist and engineer: A 'bunch' of gear like that will eventually need support / replacement. Hardware / wiring / interface specs come and go. At one time you could use coax from a receiver to a TV. Now you need HDMI.

On the replacement end, just imagine 10 years from now. You may find in order to replace one component, you may have to replace several more - due to the change in interface.

The best advice I can give you is Keep It Simple!
Ron Natalie
9 years ago
Yep, now you need HDMI, in five years? Who knows. I ran a piece of smurf tube (flexible conduit) from my AV cabinet up to the flat panel mount. It's got HDMI in it now, but it may be fiber or something in the future.

I didn't dig through all your stuff, but an alarm system is only as good as who is monitoring it.
geoffrey_b
9 years ago
Also many of these 'automation systems' come and go. When they don't sell enough they may go out of business / or with little popularity there won't be any tech's who know how to service them.

My $600 "Theater Touch" remote ( a programmable remote with macros) - when it was about 6 years old needed a new battery - Sorry sir we don't use that battery any more - you could buy the new model it's only $800. True story - I had to throw away something that was perfectly good.
amoopen1
9 years ago
I am considering Control4 for my home automation as well but I'm only running the prewire now in anticipation of the future install. Control4 has been around for a while and I feel it is well supported. They even have a forum at c4forums.com.

Your quote looks very reasonable, including the prewire. There is no question that automation will only become easier in the future, so wiring now will only make it simpler. I have learned from many different forums that you can't have enough Cat6 drops. My plan is to run 2-3 drops at each TV location in addition to the coax. My only area of concern has to do with automated lighting. I've never given it much importance but for nicer homes they say once you have it, you'll wonder how you did without it. The easiest way to have full control with minimal switches is to panelize the high voltage for the lights.
ontariomom
9 years ago
@AndrewK

I wish I could offer some significant help, Andrew. However you are way ahead of us on getting your head around what is needed. Thanks for uploading bigger images. I still find it hard to see your floor plan (not liking Houzz for image posting). Your quote does seem reasonable, based on a few low voltage quotes we received (our plans were less involved, but for many items we were quoted higher than you -- atlas that is typical in Canada). Have you looked over the thread called "Things that get forgotten". I believe it is back on page one of the building a new home forum. It has many important reminders to get in place before the walls are closed up (including some on wiring and a few on home automation). Let me know if you have found any other online sites helpful in your quest on seeking info on home automation.

@amoopen1: Can you elaborate more on your advice. I am trying to learn what I can on pre-wiring for future needs. For example can you explain in more detail what you meant by:

"I have learned from many different forums that you can't have enough Cat6 drops. My plan is to run 2-3 drops at each TV location in addition to the coax". AND

"The easiest way to have full control with minimal switches is to panelize the high voltage for the lights".

All:

I am very interested in what others' have learned about lighting scene controls. We have planned some very nice, multi-layered lighting. I have read way too much on designing lighting, and know that those light scene controls would really allow us to maximize the use of all of our lighting to the best effect. Unfortunately, the world of lighting controls seems very complex and costly.

Carol
amoopen1
9 years ago
Hi Carol,

Cat6 is good for high speed internet and video distribution from a centralized rack system. Wifi is not nearly as effective for internet based video, as you lose half the speed, so Cat6 drops are highly useful.

Panelized lighting refers to another centralized system where the high voltage runs for lights are sent to hardware that can control the lights through a home automation system. It's an additional panel that looks like a breaker box.
ontariomom
9 years ago
Note: AndrewK, I hope my questions below don't side track your original question too much. I do hope they are useful to your project too.

@amoopen1: Thanks for the clarification. Regarding the panelized lighting, would a system like Lutron's Grafix Eye QS be what you are referring to? I think (but am not at all certain) using a Grafix Eye and having in-wall keypads at switch locations would offer advanced lighting control with minimal switches. Am I on the right track? If this is right, how do I figure out how many Grafix Eye panels I need to get scene control in all major rooms of the house?. I get that I need multiple in-wall keypads (one at every switch location in the major rooms), but for whole house control do you need several Graix Eye panels too?

As per the Cat6 drops, we had planned on Cat6 drops in each bedroom, study, TV location, (anywhere we would use a TV or a computer). I wondered why you wanted 2 or 3 Cat6 drops (plus coax) at all TV locations. Please help me understand why you want more than one drop per TV location?

Carol
PRO
Hart Sensory Designs
9 years ago
OntarioMom (Carol)
I have a Control 4 home in my residence now that was done for an obscene amount. I am "attempting" to pre-wire my friend's renovation for eventual control4 installation.

The installers of my system said for me to run two(2) Cat6 drops with one (1) Coax cable in each room to the trunk (where her components will be). Further, they told me HDMI is no longer used because it loses signal integrity after a 30' run.

OTHER PARTICIPANTS:

I've read elsewhere that 2 Cat6 and 2 coax (not 1) should be run from every room. I've already bundled some rooms, not too late to add an additional coax, but is it necessary?

CONTROL 4 - STRUCTURED WIRING EXPERTS:

My friend does not want speakers in ceilings of bedrooms, rather just sound from televisions as well as hard wired computer access.

I'm a bit confused on what exactly to run to each bedroom?

Advice?
ontariomom
9 years ago
Good information Hart Sensory Designs. I appreciate your post.

Carol
amoopen1
9 years ago
Here is an example of what I was mentioning about the number of drops. Found this on an automation forum:

"At a minimum I run 2 RG6SC and two Cat6 - Personally I prefer to run 2 RG6SC & 4 Cat6

This wiring configuration allows for super flexible configurations.

Cat6 one - network connection for TV

Cat6 two - HDBaseT receiver

Cat6 three - IR for TV, if not IP controllable.

Cat6 four - Future use or for use in a local C4 Controller. Or perhaps a Sonos soundbar.

Coax 1 - OTA

Coax 2 - Local Cable or DSS box"

Hope that helps.
ontariomom
9 years ago
Thanks amoopen1 for the clarification -- so much to learn here. We were not certain we wanted to wire for local Cable (except maybe in one spot). We have Fibe TV here and wondered if that reduced the need to have cable access in multiple rooms.

Carol
ontariomom
9 years ago
Andrew, what progress have you made with your low voltage wiring plan?

Carol
Andrew K.
Original Author
9 years ago
Low Volt pre-wire has been done - waiting on the schematic from the installer but once I get it I will post it for everyone to see. Thanks!
wild303
8 years ago
I know I'm late weighing in on this but wanted to offer my opinion for any future readers. I am in the business and have just recently decided to go into consulting and designing. Nevertheless, I may have some information that may prove insightful for some.

First of all, the price shouldn't be the game changer. Some companies are way over priced. I know one company who posts how much they've made since they've been in business on their website and some are desperate to get business and will under bid and offer the world. There are a lot of things to be cautious of as some of these guys will put your life in danger.

Also some may push certain products because those are the only products they have reseller deals on. We go with what is the best fits our customers requirements (shameless sales pitch)

Control4 is number one on the market, but its still buggy.

The most important aspect of the entire design is the cabling infrastructure.

Make sure you have cat 5/6 everywhere that you may potentially need it in the future. If you think its a long shot, one of those moments where you crinkle your forehead and put your finger to your chin, DO IT drop the cable! Keep in mind you can always use the cat6 for control,ir, networking, refrigerator, etc... It is the most versatile cable you can have.

Please Critique Low-Volt (Home Automation) Plan/Proposal

Andrew K.
Original Author

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