Buehl, is there any way to do your idea with the main sink area to the right on the wall under a window and to have the walk in pantry next to the chimney. But to use the part of my plan where the island has seating for four on the side closest to the chimney?

And I wonder how beneficial a pull out trash can is for nine people? Will it be large enough? I love the thought of trash being hidden but don't want to change the can several times a day.

Is it best to have the prep sink on the island side closest to the main sink or the side closest to the fridge?

With four people, we take out the trash every 2 or 3 days. With nine people, you will probably have to take it out once a day. An 18" trash pullout holds two 13-gallon bins. In our case, we use the front one for trash and the back one for recyclables. We recycle as much as we can. If you wanted to, you could use both bins for trash. But I don't think you will have to.

Here it is with 4 seats on the chimney side of the island and the Pantry.

You are so helpful, buehl.!!! The 18 inch lower cabinet next to main sink, did you intend that for trash or drawers? And the cutting board area next to dishwasher would that be a door that opens or just an open area in the lower cabinet? Also, do you think it would be possible to put the microwave in the pantry if I didn't want it in the island?

MW...you would have to have a deeper shelf if you put the MW in the pantry. You could probably do that on the short end. You need room for approximately 18"D x 21"W. Keep in mind that all MWs have door hinges on the left, so it would have to be located with that in mind (putting on a shelf on the short end on the right would work fine.)

You will also need to have a place with landing space

You will also need to vent the pantry as heat & steam are produced when MWing food and you don't want either to build up in a pantry - pantries should be relatively cool & dry!

18" cabinet...the 18" to the right of the cleanup sink could be either a second trash pullout or it could be a cabinet. But, I don't know if you will need another trash pullout there b/c the one in the island is located so it's in the primary Prep Zone but still close to and accessible from the Cleanup Zone. If you're concerned about not having enough trash space, you could put one there. If you don't need a second trash pullout, it could be used to store trays, cookie sheets, cooling racks, etc. You might also be able to store trays, etc., over the refrigerator and freezer - depending on how tall the refrigerator & freezer are and how tall you and your family is.

9" cabinet...a door that opens with a shelf on top (stationary but adjustable). This way, you could store cutting boards and still have room for some long items on the shelf. An alternate to the shelf is a drawer. The drawer would be narrow, but it might fit things like grilling tools or other long items. Depending on how many pot holders you have, you might be able to store pot holders there.

If it was just an open area, you would have to deal with supporting the countertop properly, etc. I think it's much better as a 9" wide cabinet.

.

This is my tray storage over our double ovens - it's a little lower than the storage over our refrigerator.... The cooling racks, etc are on the top shelf b/c you only need to access the bottom corner of the items to pull them out - so that's all that needs to be easily reached.

.

.

My 2-bin, 18" trash pullout...

Here's a thread about different ways to store trays, cooling racks, etc. Pictures show both overhead and under counter ideas.

Do you like your tray storage? Can you share the details please?

More thoughts about a MW in the pantry...

MW'd food usually comes from the refrigerator or freezer and usually needs water added. Your pantry location is not very close to either.

The pantry is pretty far from the rest of the Kitchen, so the MW would not be easily accessible for cooking/prepping.

If you use the MW frequently, I think it would be an inconvenient location.

You will need to consider a trash can in the pantry for MW trash (boxes, wax paper, etc.)

I would also think about the fact that MWs often have bits of food in them. That food might attract bugs (e.g., cockroaches, if you live where they are prevalent). It won't be in the open where you can see it and where you would notice it needed to be cleaned.

Odors will be trapped in the pantry - so very good venting will be needed.

You will also need plenty of air space above/behind/on the sides

Counterspace right next to it or across from it (no more than 48" away) [I think I mentioned this before.]

A fixed, sealed shelf above that will prevent steam from traveling up the inside of the pantry cabinet.

You might consider putting the MW on a shelf below the upper cabinet to the left of the range hood. That will keep it near the refrigerator, not too far from water, and on the periphery so both someone prepping/cooking and an outsider looking for a snack can use it without getting in each others' way.

I'll have to think about the microwave. I would love a microwave drawer in island but thought it might be very costly and was worried what you would do if it broke. I didn't think about any downsides to having it in pantry as you mentioned.

Just wanted to comment that this thread is such a great example of the best of GW Kitchens. Wow. I've enjoyed following along. It's going to be a great kitchen!

@buehl, just a question regarding the microwave in pantry. If someone only uses their microwave sparingly. Like to occasionally heat up a cuppa coffee or melt butter or to occasionally defrost meat, would those same concerns apply? I have no idea how mommytofive uses her microwave but if she uses it just occasionally for things like that, maybe running it 5 minutes a day, it seems it would work in the pantry without any problem.

@mommytofive, I wouldn't be surprised if you use your microwave much more than that with five kids. I simply described how we use our own microwave and we are now empty-nesters. The micro got a lot more use when the kids were still home. But I think you need to consider how often you use it and what you use it for before you nix the idea.

@benjesbride - Of course this is a great thread. Lots of ideas from buehl who is one of the best!

This is a fabulous thread, which I'm so grateful for. For microwave use I it to melt butter, defrost meat, kids heat an occasional instant oatmeal, and reheat a leftover. All cooking is on stove. Not sure if that's considered a lot or a little.

If it's used only very occasionally and not for a long period of time (like only a minute or two), I think most of the issues I listed would be minor...with the exception of venting. Even a little bit of steam and odors can have a negative impact. (And, assuming it's kept clean!)

I think, though, if the pantry has plenty of ventilation, it would be fine.

However, if it's used several times a day or even a lot during meal prep, then I think the issues still stand.

Regarding the MW drawer...we've had ours installed since 2008 and have had no problems with it - over 7 years now. Interestingly, our countertop MWs seem to have lasted less time - they seemed to average more like 4 or 5 years (at best). Drawers are more expensive, I agree. But if they can last 3 or 4 times as long, then their cost is a wash. Most countertop MWs I've bought have been in the $200 range (I like all the bells & whistles). I think we paid $750 for the 30" drawer MW - the 24" one would have been cheaper.

An alternative would be an under counter MW alcove with a standard MW inside - although I'm not a fan b/c, IMO, they're too low to use. You have to practically squat to see in the window or do anything inside and you have to lean way over to see/use the controls. If you don't want to do a drawer, then I think the next best thing would be to mount it under the upper cabinet to the left of the range.

If we can afford it, I like the drawer idea. Will run idea by hubs. I'm really liking this plan. I have hesitation with the dish hutch though. With it being close to sink I worry about water on counter with the cabinet touching counter and myself having so many kids. Also would it be easier for clean up to have the full advantage of the counter space there to pile dishes on counter? Just thinking.....

Also , with your plan did you plan for a 36 inch farmhouse sink or a 30 inch farmhouse sink in a 36 inch base? Which do I have room for with this amazing revised plan? I know the 30 inch shaw farmhouse sink needed a 33 inch base. Not sure what the 36 inch shaw farmhouse sink needed. And what size did you plan the actual prep sink to be? You have a 24 inch base cabinet for the prep sink.

I also have these indoor shutters that stick out 7 inches from the wall, inside the window when folded back like we almost always do.

My question is currently you planned a 9 inch cutting board space and then dishwasher. Do you think the dishwasher is far enough from the shutter when the dishwasher is open or does that left lower cabinet need to be a smidge wider? Thinking about it further....whatever is in the far left of the main sink wall will hit the shutters when a cabinet door or drawer is being opened. What would you suggest? Here's a not the best photo of a different room with the way we usually put the shutters. Top shutter usually folded in, sometimes back. Bottom shutter usually folded back for more sunlight. Sorry these need a good cleaning. I wanted to not have shutters in the kitchen, but my husband loves the shutters and really wants to keep them in there if possible. My other problem with the shutters is finding a kitchen window for over the sink that won't look out of place because it won't have the same character as the 3 large shuttered windows. Sorry for all these detailed questions.

I'm another huge fan of the microwave drawer. I have the sharp 24" one and it fits in a 24" cabinet. I've had it for 5 years and it gets daily use.

I REALLY like Buehl's latest plan! :)

Farm sink...It's a 36" sink base, which probably means a 33" wide sink. If it doesn't come in that size, then you may have to reduce it to a 33" sink base for the 30" wide sink. That's a pretty big sink since it's a single bowl, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Window Shutters...So, with a 33" sink base, you can take those 3" from the 36" base and add it to the 9" base on the far left to give you 12". That should be enough space for the shutters.

The 44" wide windows - does that measurement include the trim?

That counter run includes 1.5" of filler b/w the wall and the 9" cabinet to accommodate the sill. How far does the sill extend out past the wall? If it extends out more than 1.5", then the filler will need to be wider. You may need to use those 3" from the sink base to accommodate the sill.

With the 1.5" of current filler + 9" cabinet + 3" from sink base (whether as more filler or to widen the 9" cabinet), you will have over 13.5" of space b/w the wall and the DW door - that should be plenty! For the cabinet to the left, you will have to close the shutter to open that cabinet, but how often will you be opening it?

The prep sink in the island...it's a 24" sink base, so any sink narrower than 23" or so should fit. If you have thicker cabinet walls than normal, you may have to limit yourself to a 21" wide sink, but that's still a nice size for a prep sink. Mine is 17-3/4" square and is fine for most things...I do wish it were 2 or 3 inches wider sometimes, but nothing wider.

Cleanup/dirty dishes space...There's quite a bit of room for dirty dishes to the left of the sink -over 3' plus 3" deeper counters, so I don't know if you will need to use the right side. Add to that a 30" wide sink for the dirty dishes!

However, I can see your point about water. 18" is the minimum distance I would recommend, but more would be better. A couple of options:

(1) You don't need to make it a dish hutch - just have 45" of upper cabinets for dishes.

(2) You could put in a 30" drawer base, widen the 15" upper to 21", and use a 24" upper for the hutch part to the counter. That would give you another 6" to the hutch - 24" instead of 18". No, the base and upper cabinets won't match, but it shouldn't matter b/c the island blocks the view of the base from the front and you can't see the base from the side (other than the side of the cabinet, which would be the same no matter how wide it is.)

Window...it's the backyard, correct? So the exterior isn't as big an issue as it would be if it were the front of the house - it won't have to be an exact match - are there any other windows on that side? If not, then an approximation of the look may be fine.

Inside, though, you will need to trim it out like the other windows. Wood trim, not aluminum or vinyl. The sill, though, could be eliminated if the window is counter-height without detracting from the look of the window.

You probably won't want to make it the same type of window b/c it would be too difficult to open. You will probably want a casement (crank open) or inoperable window there, so the look would not be identical in any case.

I'm not a window expert, so I'm not sure about all the options. You could check on the Remodeling or Home Decorating Forums and ask about them there. There is also a Windows Forum, but I don't know how active it is. (The Forum names are links to the respective forums.)

My MW drawer gets a lot of use. We MW veggies for meals, warm up leftovers for meals/snacks, cook other things, warm up tea, etc.

I love Buehl's latest plan with the exception that I agree with OP that she'd be better off with more counter space, so I'd just use regular upper & lower cabinets there in place of the dish hutch. You could do glass uppers and store pretty dishes there, but leave the counter open for extra workspace. You can never have too much workspace, and this isn't a huge kitchen to start with. I'd much rather give up a few extra feet of dish storage space and gain that counter space. That counter space would also be a handy piece of real estate for placing prepped food on the way to the dining table.

For tray storage, I once had a kitchen with a 9" wide lower cabinet (that I think I removed the little "half shelf" from) and I used for tray storage. It was awesome. You could probably put a single vertical divider in there, too, but I don't think mine had one, and it worked just great as it was. It was narrow enough that things weren't going to topple over without a divider, and not having a divider made the most of its capacity. (If you get a divider, I'd suggest having it be removable if possible, as you might find you can fit in more stuff without it.) It held *lots* of cutting boards and cooling racks, the big pizza stone, etc. Occasionally, it also held my toddler.

Too cute photo!!!

Do you think a sliding barn door would work for the pantry door instead of a pocket door or would it stick out too far? Or any other type of door that would work there? My husband was wondering about that.

And I think for my family a regular upper and lower cabinet would be better instead of the dish hutch. Would the 30 inch lower drawers be big enough to hold dishes or do I need to tweak the plan to make them 33 or 36 inch drawers? The 18 inch lower cabinet next to it, do you suggest having that as drawers or a regular door?

30" wide should hold a good number of dishes. I have a single 33" dish drawer (inset, which I don't know if it makes them smaller, but I think it does), and it holds an entire service for 12 of Corelle (plates, bowls, small plates, 12 mugs) as well as three more stacks of random ice cream bowls and plastic bowls. All the stacks could be much higher than they are, of course, probably at least 24 Corelle (thin) dishes and certainly any of the other sets of 12 thick heavy stoneware, etc, that I have. I only stashed the mugs in there because I had so much extra room. Obviously they could/should go elsewhere. :) So, IME, you can count on a 30" dish drawer to hold a full service of every day dishes (at least 4-5 stacks of bowls/plates/little plates, plus misc. spare room around the edges that you can fill in with random stacks of whatever, or, like me, mugs). You could draw out a rectangle on cardboard the size of the proposed drawer . . . and test to see how many things you can fit. I bet you'll be pleased. IME, I'd plan on one 30+ inch drawer for each "service" of dishes. (This is assuming you have the one short top drawer + two equal deeper lower drawers that I do . . . Don't go shallower than that for dishes, IMHO. This seems the perfect depth, actually, as any deeper would just be wasteful.)

If I was trying to store my "good" dishes that are heavy thick pottery and have like 10 different sizes and shapes of plates and bowls and saucers, then I'd probably need two 33-36" drawers for those ones . . . not to mention more for the serving pieces . . . I don't have those ones in drawers in the kitchen, though, so that's not an issue. But, if your dishes that you intend to put in drawers are more like that, then maximizing width would be helpful. I do have two humongous roll out trays in a lower cabinet in my dining room hutch/buffet thing . . . I think they are around 44" wide or something crazy like that. That huge size is FANTASTIC for maximizing storage. One definitely has way more capacity than two half that size . . . Plus, it's nice to be able to see everything at once. (I keep *all* my non-fine-china serving casseroles/platters/etc in that one cabinet, which makes it easy to grab just the right size dish . . .) So, anyway, that's all to say that if you are trying to store one "service" that has tons of shapes/sizes, then, yes, I would try to maximize the size of the drawer(s). But, for normal dishes with just 3-5 "shapes" of things, then the smaller drawer will be fine.

Benjisbride, I was thinking the same thing reading this thread. I just followed in awe as buehl did her thang!

Buehl- I just want to thank you for taking the time to write such detailed and informative posts. Whenever I see your posts I cannot wait to read them. I wait until I have some time to sit down and really absorb all the info. I look at it like I'm taking a free online kitchen design course with a wonderful teacher. And you are just one of many. Thanks everyone.

Mommytofive- I think your kitchen/dining room is going to be fabulous. I love old Victorian homes and those windows with the shutters are gorgeous. Hey, don't you need to change your name to mommytoseven? :-)

I am sure you are one terrific mommy and you deserve this big beautiful kitchen!

Rebunky, I can't agree with you more that buehl's detailed informative posts are awesome an so helpful. I thought I had no options with my kitchen other than the limited plan the kitchen designer came up with, and buehl's plan just blew that out of the water and made me feel so good about what my kitchen will become.

Another thought in pantry door. We've been taking doors off of different rooms to our house and I have a 25 inch door and many wider than that. Would the 25 inch one be able to be used on regular hinges as a pantry door. I like that we have it and it matches our house perfectly and is on the smaller side so it won't swing out too far. Obviously pocket would take up less space, but my husband was hesitant about pocket for some reason.

Love buehls latest plan. The only thing I might consider is doing a window seat along one of the windows in the corner where the bistro set is shown and then use that corner between the windows to add a microwave instead of doing an under counter microwave.

I've only used an under counter microwave for a week in a vacation rental, but I much prefer the cheap one I got back in 2000 that sits above the oven in our current house. Putting things in and taking out is easier on me than lifting them up and the power is much better and this was a top of the line one too. I'm also an impatient person and found pressing a button to open and close to be annoying as it had a bit of a wait to open/close vs. a mechanical door.

Here is a hack on buehl's plan to show what I mean. You could also have a drawer under the window seat to have more storage.

Oh if you use the 25" door you have put it in the middle so you can step into the middle. If you have two narrower doors of the same width you could add both to be able to fully open the area. If they are solid wood doors then I would see about adding bins on the inside of them for extra storage as well. Something like these pictures for some examples.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pantry+door+storage&rlz=1T4GGNI_enUS522US522&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=n7A_VfHTOMjnavuKgOAE&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1920&bih=879

Okay, Victorian kitchen AND a window seat??? What a wonderful space! :)

Buehl is the Jedi Master of Kitchens! :)

Darling photo, szruns.

I absolutely love the window seat idea. You could put a small table in front and still have good clearance for walking around. What a cozy, charming spot that will be. You might consider bookcases around it for cookbooks. Wouldn't that be a fantastic place to cuddle up with cookbooks to plan menus? To keep visual clutter down, I would put the shelves sideways like in this bedroom's window seat.

Traditional Bedroom · More Info

I wouldn't want the microwave intruding on the window seat. How about putting an inset shelf into part of the pantry so the microwave is out in the room instead of in the pantry itself? It would be inobtrusive, accessible, and you wouldn't have the problems with steam impacting the food stored. And since Buehl called for a 24" door, I think your 25" one would fit there quite nicely. I didn't draw in the bookshelves in the plan below.

Your kitchen is going to be awesome!

Any recommendation for an actual prep sink for me to buy to go in the island? I am using a 30 inch shaw farmhouse sink for my main sink. Does the prep sink need to match? Does 21 inch seem too large for a prep sink? My current sink is a double bowl where one side is about 16 inches, so it's hard to envision a 21 inch sink as a prep sink. I picture my 7 kids loading it with their dishes since it's pretty large....have to train them otherwise. Would this plan still be good without a prep sink in the island or just so so?

No prep sink seriously reduces the efficiency of this plan. It means that you will either need to prep next to the clean-up sink or carry wet items across the floor to the island to prep. If you were prepping on the island, it means numerous trips back and forth during prepping. Just think about how many times you might need to give something a quick rinse while prepping. Or simply how many times you might need to rinse off your hands, especially if prepping meats. And then imagine walking back-and-forth from sink to island each time you have to do this. I'm just roughly guessing that this could easily double your prep time.

Now imagine someone is working on clean-up while someone is prepping. So every time you need the use the sink during prepping, the person doing clean-up has to pause and move out of the way. This also makes clean-up take longer.

I think you'll love the space a 21" prep sink will give you. I have read that 18" is OK but much smaller than that makes it harder to work in. Do you like working in the 16" bowl? It might be adequate as you have a double-bowl but with all your kids, I would imagine there might be times when there are multiple people in the kitchen and it's easier for someone to try to get a glass of water or something from the prep sink than the clean-up sink due to the clean-up sink being full of big pots and pans or something else a bit in the way. If you're prepping next to a bit larger sink like a 21" one, it would be easier for them to scootch their glass in there to be filled without disturbing anything you might have in the sink.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter, FWIW.

Ok, prep sink in the island it is! And no, I hate my current sink!!!! I think it would be okay for prepping but for washing dishes my small double bowls are horrible. Any suggestions on a prep sink to purchase? I'm clueless in regards to sinks other than the shaw main sink I picked out already.

Oh, there are so many kinds and styles. I don't feel comfortable recommending. I went with a Krauss SS 24", 9 or 10" deep, undermount. I'm not familiar with the Shaw. Maybe you will want something that compliments it?

What did you think about my idea for where your microwave should go in my post above? Sorry to bug you but you didn't comment on it and I know it's placement is an issue for you so I'm curious.

funkycamper, I'm still not sure on placement of microwave. I think my husband wants to use buehl's measurements for the pantry, which actually matches an existing closet in that space years ago. This house was his grandmom's house before we bought it, so we know the original layout, and my husband loves to make our house as close to the original as possible. The closet used to have a nice curved edge with curved baseboard. We have an identical closet upstairs to it. If he does the curved edge, the door will most likely end up in the middle of the pantry which would prevent there from being an alcove for the microwave, at least that's my guess. I'd have to measure it all out. I think right now I'm still leaning towards the microwave drawer in the island but haven't gotten my husband's opinion yet.

OK, that makes sense. Especially since this is a family home filled with memories. I just don't think of clever ideas too often and was proud of myself for thinking of it, lol. I'm not one of the gurus like Buehl. :)

http://www.amazon.com/Kraus-Undermount-Single-Stainless-Kitchen/dp/B0042D3K3A

So funkycamper, this would be the 20 inch equivalent to what you currently have? I would love to match the shaw's farmhouse look but in the smaller sizes shaw only carries a 15 inch and a 24 inch and a round 18 inch. I wonder if people regularly mix their sink looks..... So many decisions.....

funkycamper, it was a clever idea...thank you. I never would have though of that:)

Buehl, I'm looking at prep sinks. Rohl has an 18 inch square allia fireclay prep sink that would match my shaw fireclay apron main sink. They don't have a 21 inch version. If if did go with the 18 inch, would I still keep the 24 inch sink base that you suggested? I think the required sink base is 21 inch for that sink, but the sink is undermount so I don't think the size base affects the look. Also for the window above the main sink does that window stay at 36 inch as you suggested even though the main sink will be 30 inch with a 33 inch sink base? Thanks.

You could determine your storage needs and either keep the 24" sink base or go to the 21" and add those 3" to one of the other units on the island. I would stick with the 36". Windows don't need to match up with sinks or sink bases and you can never have enough windows, imho and numerous others of us here.

What an exciting thread! As a fellow mom of 7, I'm very happy to see you getting such a family friendly plan. I'm thankful to see you've received such incredible help : ) Do you have an Ikea near you? I wonder if their single farm sink would work well for your island prep sink.

I hope you'll keep us updated with lots of pictures.

Glad to see a fellow mom of 7...it's interesting, isn't it:). Yes, I do have an ikea closeby. I can check that out. Thanks.

Would it be more beneficial to me (with 7 kids) to have a second dishwasher to the right of the main sink (which would mean losing the 18'" base cabinet and to lose 6" off of the 30" base cabinet) or to keep the cabinets to the right as is and only have the one dishwasher? I know I don't have a ton of cabinets as it is. My plan was to use the 30 inch drawer base cabinets for dishes. We currently don't have a dishwasher at all, so it's hard for me to gauge whether I would need more than one.

With a large family, a second dishwasher (or even a dish drawer) might be a good idea! :)

And I don't know about everyone else, but I don't think I could easily reach the right side of that pantry. Would something like this work?

What's a dish drawer? How much space does that take up? Is it worth losing cabinet space in my plan to make room for a second dishwasher?

You can have one or two (stacked) depending on what your needs might be. Since they pull out, they shouldn't block the walkway as much...especially just a top one :)

You know....for a brief period of time in our last remodeling process, we had 2 dishwashers. It was nice in that there was almost always an empty dw waiting to be filled. But, it wasn't "all that" that I thought it might be. I found trying to load 2 dishwashers cumbersome. I had to try to jockey the contents between the 2 for the best fit, which could be time consuming. I'd get frustrated and think, "I could have washed this by hand and been done by now!" If both dw's were run at once, it seemed like a huge task to get them both emptied. My little kids, who were normally delegated to the duty of loading and unloading, could no longer do the task. It was overwhelming to them. Hey, some days it felt overwhelming to me!

Then we got to planning this remodel. We planned for 2 dw's again. Cabinets needed to go in and our sink needed to come out. We moved the entire kitchen operation to the family room. We were washing dishes old-style, in dish pans on the table. One person washed, one or two dried and put away. All of a sudden, cleanup became this efficient, no big deal task (except for late night dinners when we were all tired.) "Why did we think we needed a dishwasher?" we contemplated for the first few weeks. Well, that style of cleaning lost its newness, and we came to the point we'd be glad to have a dw to stick stuff in and walk away, but we still enjoyed the camaraderie of working together.

Pretty soon it was time to install the sink and counters in the new kitchen. We only had one dw in our possession. We started the process of looking around for a second one while we used the one we had. Life went on. We were functioning fine with one dw, usually running it a couple of times per day. It meant we had to hand wash some stuff, but a lot of these items were over-sized to match our big family, or they were hand washables anyway. It also meant the dish draining rack took up permanent residence on our counter. The hole for the second dw was "temporarily" filled with our trash and recycling bins. We love the convenience of tossing the trash and recyclables in their containers right next to the sink where we are processing them. We came to the conclusion that we are just fine with one dw. It loads and unloads quickly and easily. We wash the hand washing stuff with little fuss. I'm not crazy about the dishes drying on the counter, but it's a kitchen and that's part of what kitchens are for. Our kitchen is medium sized, and the storage is more valuable to me at this point that the second DW. We plan to do a pull-out in the 2' opening. If we change our minds later, a DW can still go in there.

You may feel differently. Som families even half our size love having 2 DW's. I liked having 2, but it wasn't as slick of a process as I thought it would be.

Sorry - just getting back to this thread! Thank you for all the compliments - I'm blushing! :-)

.

Prep sink...bigger is better, IMHO. Do you need your prep sink to match your cleanup sink? The prep sink will be undermount and not visible, so I would think a different material would be fine - Silgranite (granite composite), stainless steel, etc. However, if you want to stick with the fireclay, that's fine. I would use the smallest sink base possible that will fit the sink. Storage in a sink base isn't very efficient - even with a drawer on the bottom and pullout accessories. I'd rather add those 3" to the other cabinets in the island.

.

MW drawer...it doesn't open/close with a button, you (gently) pull/tug it to open and (gently) push/nudge it to close. Mine has an option to set buttons to open/close, but I don't bother b/c a gentle tug and nudge are easy!

.

Dishwasher...You might benefit from two DWs in the short term (while your children are all home). You could use an 18" DW for the second DW if you're trying to save cabinet space - but they're more expensive than a standard 24" DW. Just keep in mind that you need enough space b/w the window and the DW to accommodate the shutters. I'm the oldest of 6 - but growing up we didn't have a DW - my mom always said she had 6 DWs (us kids!)! So, I don't know. I know with 2 children (when they were growing up and now when they're home from college) we don't fill the DW in a day - it's usually every two days. When it's just my DH and me, we only run it a couple of times a week or so.

BTW...how deep is the window sill? I want to be sure you have enough filler b/w the wall and the 9" cabinet (or whatever size it ends up being) so the cabinet will clear the sill when opened and will be able to be opened fully.

.

Pantry door...centering it is fine. It wasn't originally centered b/c I made it a pocket door and you need room for the door to slide inside the wall.

There's room for a barn door, if you prefer. You might also consider two 18" swinging doors, or a single door - like the one you already have.

laughablemoments, thanks for your view on the two dishwashers. I think I might end up agreeing with you once I've had two dishwashers, so I think right now I will just enjoy the one and keep the cabinet space.

buehl...

1. I remeasured the window sill by the dishwasher area. The sill is 45 inches wide. Looks like my husband was off by an inch. The sill itself sticks out to the left and right of the window 2 inches if you need that info, but that's included in the 45 inch measurement. The sill sticks out a smidge less than two inches from the wall. I think that's the measurement that you wanted.

2. In my very first plan the oven wall had base cabinets that were 30 inches wide and uppers that were 27 inches wide. I just noticed that you have the oven base cabinets at 27 inches wide and the uppers at 24 inches wide. Was that a change you made on purpose?

3. If I did use the 18 inch prep sink in a 21 inch sink base, would I just make the 33 inch set of drawers in the island become 36 inch?

4. With the main sink, I only need a 33 inch base cabinet for the 30 inch sink, so how would that change the window size? And how do we tweak the uppers to match making the 9 inch base cabinet becoming a 12 inch cabinet to accommodate the shutters? Hope that question made sense. Would you suggest the set of 18 inch drawers next to the sink be a set of three drawers or four drawers?

thanks!

One thing to consider with 2 dishwashers is finding dishes! Even with just one, it's not uncommon for me to be rooting around cabinets and the DW (and wondering if I should stop the DW cycle) looking for the potato peeler or garlic press, and I've already gone to having MANY measuring spoons and cups, etc. If I had yet another DW to keep track of clean/dirty status and what's where, my head would explode. Now, if I was the only person who did dishes or cooked, I could keep track of things better . . . but, then again, my head would explode for entirely different reasons. So, anyway, for me, I wouldn't want two dishwashers unless the second one (or DW drawer) was in an entirely different space (say a bar area for bar glasses and dishes), just so as not to confuse me more than I already am.