My current house is an 1895 Victorian. And while my turret isn't round, it's angled walls are still quite a pain in the rear for furniture placement. Charming. But somewhat annoying.

Notice how dazureus's house makes sense, including that most rooms can have windows on two walls. Dazureus's house is basically an updated four square with the rotunda leading to all rooms. Nicely done.

Unless there is a financial reason not to have more windows, then I would rethink this plan in order to get a lot more light on the first floor (as others have said). We had a great house designed, but we started over because I knew I'd regret not having light on multiple sides of the main rooms.

I also agree with the other posters that don't like rooms that aren't square or rectangle. I'm renting a house like that now, and the furniture just doesn't look quite right. If you like it, as some people do, I'd just make sure you lay out your furniture in this plan (or have a designer do it) to make sure it all works for you.

Thanks cpartist. We added windows on the two back corner rooms so they have windows on two walls. Also when design met implementation, most of the boxed in areas that straighten the curve of the rotunda on the adjoining rooms were removed.

One note of construction for sprink1es: The rotunda wrecks havoc on supporting steel beams. Having a hole in the middle of your house makes it difficult to place beams, especially with the cantilevered second story rotunda walkway. The footing for our stairs is one big pad with the curved walls being constructed for load bearing. On the other side of the rotunda, we have an elevator shaft that carries weight down to a massive footing at the base of the shaft that supports the steel for that side of the house. Make sure all that stuff is ironed out before you lift a shovel.

Also, you could get the guest coat closet closer to the front door if you swapped it with the powder room. Change the angle of the garage wall where the basin sink is and get rid of all the blind enclosed spaces. You might be able to squeeze the powder room in there. It will be more centrally located in the house that way.

It's not just large .. it's dysfunctional. It doesn't "live well". It's a checklist of functions all jammed under a far too large and complex roofline.

Walk through a typical day in the house, using markers on a printout of the plans, and see where you have to go to get one task done, like unloading groceries. Or doing laundry. Or cooking a family dinner.

Look at the BIG old houses from the 1800s and early 1900s and you will see far better floor plans. They could easily close off the parlors when they weren't needed.

I can't take the Queen Ann/Shingle Style front elevation seriously with that little brown masonry dog house with its colonial quoins.

"95% done with ~6000sqft plan" Yes it's that last 300 SF that's always the hardest!

kiko - I've read that entire blog. Very entertaining, but few topics apply. Not battling architectural styles, but I am battling the roof needing to be too tall. Stock plan doesn't have that huge of a roof, but my truss manufacturer spec'd mine as shown so that's what I ended up with.

lazy_gardens - I have to say I don't agree, minus the complex roofline comment. The kitchen is literally an extra 10' from the entrance/mudroom due to the rotunda/nook, but it's not like I would be walking through a living room. Laundry couldn't be any closer to all the bedrooms. Main "what I do every day" rooms would be Master --> Kitchen --> GreatRoom before work. Same thing after work plus the private Den would be added in the mix. I honestly think you're just trying to dislike it :) (minus the roof system)

JDS: "I
can't take the Queen Ann/Shingle Style front elevation seriously with
that little brown masonry dog house with its colonial quoins."

I don't like the faux quoins, I just happened to upload one of the renderings when we were trying different ideas on that bump-out. Ditching those, but I don't think it looks "dog house-ish" with the brick wrapping around both sides. It is something I've had my eye on though to address

Architectrunnerguy: "Yes it's that last 300 SF that's always the hardest!"

lol right, gets pretty close until you start backtracking and realizing how many things need to be changed :D

dazureus: "We addressed many of the issues listed here by eschewing the diagonal
eye line shot from the front door to the greatroom and made it run
perpendicular to the front, keeping the rotunda (a feature my wife
loves).

I totally understand your situation with the house size vs the lot
size. Many of the houses and properties within the price range we
looked at had this exact same thing. Large house that occupied +50% of
the land with wooded common areas. If your ratio fits your community,
then it's probably fine, but you'll get a lot of backlash on these
forums.

I can't offer much in the way of advice since your plan is nearly
finished and you appear to mostly be happy with it. If this is your
forever house, consider an elevator since your master suite is on the
second floor. Get that house as air tight as you can with more
progressive insulating and building techniques and you won't have to
worry as much about heating/cooling. Find a low air infiltration window
to support this. Good luck."

Thank you for chiming in! I breezed over your website - very nice and detailed, great job at documenting it. I'm surprised at how long the build is taking though! I'll be peeking back at it to check your updates.

I agree that my garage is really doing a number to my roof system. Going into it, I knew the roof would be big but I guess I justified it by thinking "it's a big house anyway, its really not uncommon looking". The wife loves the veranda and the rotunda too... We are shade people, and I don't love the circle rotunda but that has been a chore to design around. I'm still tempted to swap it for a square stair system and do away with the circle.

Lot size - as stated, lots of common area full of trees that is non-buildable. We lucked out and got one of the good lots adjacent to the "maintained" grass common areas if I'd want to go throw a football etc on. Still makes the house look too large for the lot, but given the circumstance I think it's fine and that's how the HOA is set up to function. Fully anticipate to hear "too big for lot", "too dark", "roof too big" 100 times here though.

I tried to put an elevator shaft in this plan, but it doesn't fit anywhere. I omitted it because making one fit would just push a room out and add more sqft I think. I could always turn the formal Living Room into a flex room to function as a bedroom, but I'd still be without a full bathroom on the main floor so I thought what's the point... This downfall still bothers me

Already quoting spray foam throughout, nice Pella windows, etc etc insulation wise. The two turrets worry me with nothing below them but I'd probably just foam the crap out of the floors there, there is plenty of depth in the floor system to work with. There also comes a point where a house is too air tight and doesn't breathe, so I do want to cover the bases but don't want to go too crazy and create a sealed time capsule.

I'm still arranging meeting with a 3rd party architect to go over this or look at starting over. There are plenty of things to change, but we like what many perceive as downfalls. Shade/porches/garage/irregular rooms to keep it interesting. Yes a circle turret is a nightmare to furnish as a "live-in" room, but in my head, it will receive a pair of arm chairs, accent table, then something opposite. Not like I'm going to try to shove a L-shaped couch with ottoman in there heh heh. Will update with I get feedback from an architect

It still feels like a huge house that is going to live small. Your daily living will be focused on the rear 1/4 of the house (great room / kitchen) and then up to your bedrooms. Leaving about a full 1/2 of the downstairs living space fairly unused and unloved. (And because of the restricted flow, they won't really be utilized during entertaining / gatherings) I'd rather see an extended kitchen with a cozier gathering room and forgo the formal living (and try to open up the dining room so even if you simply use it as a buffet table when entertaining, it is more conveniently located/ accessed) I would expect a house of this size to have 2 masters or at least a decent bedroom on the first level for some level of future proofing / opening it up to a larger audience if you ever sell. I'd NEVER buy a house without a FFM. And, you should have an elevator - especially with the SIZE of the upstairs master.

Then - there is the media room and bedroom #4 (both with weird layouts) that are over the garage. No one likes to live over the garage. Besides being cold and having issues with sealing / indoor air quality, you'll be sure to know when someone comes home because your bed will provide the free vibra-massage from the garage door opener.

I have friends with houses like this. They are not gracious - you usually pass by the "formal" rooms, get to the kitchen and great room - sometimes out to the deck /outdoor living space - and sometimes even in the "basement" for larger gatherings.

I would also consider a large storage closet somewhere for Christmas decorations. (Maybe I am projecting!) but I love having a large tree / trees, lots of decorations, etc - and it's nice to have some dedicated space. Storage seems to be a little lacking here.

Your huge master will be a decorating challenge - even with dressers, etc - you'll have a weirdly vacant dance floor around your bed. You also realize that you are closer to the toilet in the HALL BATH than you are to your water closet if you have to pee in the middle of the night. (Or God forbid - get sick)

The kids' baths are very basic (can't remember if you said you'll be addressing that.) Consider making them a bit nicer - esp for teens having "grooming products"- they will appreciate more storage and counter space than the stingy 3' shown. Also consider making those baths have a shower only instead of a tub. No one take baths after a while and having a glass walled shower with a flat floor (or even zero threshold) eakesthe showering experience so much nicer. And in the guest room - more accessible for guests of all ages.

Overall, I think that the house focuses more on the show features than it does on improving the lives of it's occupants. And THAT is why I recommend a true residential architect.

jannicone: "I have friends with houses like this. They are not gracious - you
usually pass by the "formal" rooms, get to the kitchen and great room -
sometimes out to the deck /outdoor living space - and sometimes even in
the "basement" for larger gatherings.

I would also consider a large storage closet somewhere for Christmas
decorations. (Maybe I am projecting!) but I love having a large tree /
trees, lots of decorations, etc - and it's nice to have some dedicated
space. Storage seems to be a little lacking here.

Also consider making those
baths have a shower only instead of a tub. No one take baths after a
while and having a glass walled shower with a flat floor (or even zero
threshold) eakesthe showering experience so much nicer.

Overall, I think that the house focuses more on the show features
than it does on improving the lives of it's occupants. And THAT is why I
recommend a true residential architect."

Noted. I didn't mean to imply this was my final "set in stone" plan. In fact, this was an edition from a month and a half ago so it's missing a bunch of my small changes addressing some things. However, the skeleton is there, and it does need work. The feedback and constructive criticism really helps, so thank you.

I agree that "every day" guests pass right on by the formal rooms if not there for an event. One of the reasons I liked this plan is that the FLR and FDR can be closed off to the side when not in use. Zero traffic, won't get messy/used unless intended to. The Den will actually function as my home office, so I'll use that extensively every day. Right now I don't have an office, I just kind of leave my things strewn across my family room... (tell my wife I'm sorry haha).

I don't want to finish the basement, there's plenty of space already. I've been in larger homes (20,000+sqft, I've seen it all) with redundant bars and rec rooms. What's the point of making duplicate "family rooms" upstairs and down if they're both not needed simultaneously. I just have to resist the urge to do a full pub-style wet bar etc etc etc down there...

Storage - the basement is for just that. I think we created just enough closet storage for linens and cleaning appliances, but just enough. Basement is 2,600sqft of closets, so bring on the Christmas decorations! :)

Baths - I've been torn on this. I drew drop-in acrylic tubs for the kids because I didn't want to drop $$ on more tiled/glass showers just for the kids. Might ditch the tub and just do a nicer stand-up unit though. The Guest Room bath is drawn with a stand-up acrylic shower - haven't brought myself to put a full tile/glass shower here because in my head it would rarely get used.

Thanks for chiming in - I said 95% complete for a reason lol. Room for improvement

^ no, I had the kid bedrooms drawn that size by choice. Kids don't need 16x20'. Double square footage =/= double bedrooms. Certain rooms only need to be so big (thought I might squeeze another foot into the FDR). The 6000sqft comes from 3 additional formal rooms, 10.5x11' foyer, some "wasted space" common areas to help direct traffic, and the sitting rooms etc that nobody needs.

Your examples are a pretty poor examples of "how poorly the current floor plan uses space", not that the plan is perfect. We can still be friends though <3

I would not recommend an all acrylic ANYTHING in a home of this magnitude. Either do a nice tub with tiled surround or a shower base with tiled walls. Anything else will look woefully out of place.

Have you had this quoted with a builder? Ultimately it's your money - but I can't wrap my head around a one piece acrylic shower for your kid to use every day when you are putting in something like a $100K staircase.

That dining room is much too small, particularly the width. In a 6k sq foot house to have a formal dining room that people can't even walk around is absurd. At most you could seat 10 adults in that room, and not particularly comfortably at that. If you entertain formally frequently enough to warrant a butler's pantry, you need a much bigger formal DR.

Children need bigger rooms than one might think! As the grow up, hoards of large teenagers will be in there, there will be sleepovers, they will need a desk for the computer - you name it. Of course one can build them like dorm rooms but I sure wouldn't want to do that in a 6000 sq ft house.

Not battling architectural styles, but I am battling the roof needing to be too tall.

Actually you are battling architectural styles.

And despite what you think about everyone having confirmation bias, in this case it's not so. Maybe we all agree because we can see what a mess of a house this is and how it will not work.

Take another good look at dazureus's house. Notice how it's easy to move from room to room and there's not a lot of wasted space? Why build a house with lots of wasted space unless you have money to burn.

Also you talk about closing off rooms when not in use. Let me ask a question? Do you entertain weekly? Monthly? Biweekly? That's a lot of space if you just entertain infrequently. Think about how many days the rooms are used vs sitting there looking pretty gathering dust.

In my last house which was only about 3600 square feet (I say only because yours is almost double) we entertained about once every 2 months. We had a playroom for the kids, a small "reading" room, a family room, an office space, foyer, living room, dining room, sun room and kitchen on the main floor. Our living room was 13' x 25' and our dining room was 15' x 15'. The other downstairs rooms were fairly large too.

Well, the playroom, and reading room never got used because the kids wanted to be where we were and when they were older, they either wanted to be in their rooms or they entertained their friends in the sun room.

The office became storage for my ex. The sunroom was never used until the kids became teens. The living room/dining room were only used bimonthly when we entertained. Oh and during the holiday we sat in the living room and opened presents in the living room. But otherwise, it sat there being a pretty (and useless) room.

The only rooms that were used on a daily basis were the family room, the kitchen and the bedrooms and bathrooms.

So the question that you need to ask is how do you actually live? And the truth is even if you have huge parties, people will still congregate in a few places and usually not the more formal rooms either.

kiko - snotty answer to a nonconstructive post though, what did you expect lol. I'll invite you over for a beer next year, can forget all about it ;)

I've gained a lot of advice and "to do" items - thank you for all the advice, experiences, and constructive criticism so far. Let me regroup with these fresh ideas to improve. That is, unless if the architect refuses to work with it! har har

Here is a thought or two for the garage. Consider building a detached garage for the boats - a boat house if you will. Make it generously wide, deep enough for a sailboat mast (if you sail), 2-stories high, with at least 10-ft high roll up doors on front and back. The drive through feature will ensure you use it for boat storage. Some people get tired of backing a boat into a garage and just park it out front. Instead of building a second floor inside, install a boat hoist. With that you can store more boats or boats and RV vehicles.

Don't forget about computer connectivity in the garage.

If the car garage will be used for DIY motorhead stuff, widen or deepen the garage to make room for tools and workbenches.

If you use the garage for storage and have an upstairs in it, the stairs should be a little wider than simple stairs. Consider upstairs house access for storage in an attached garage.

That design is not at all what I think of as a McMansion. Whatevs, but that isn't one.

I am so glad to see ArchitectRunnerGuy on the thread. Sprink'les, ARG is an experienced architect that has done a number of custom homes for GW people who found themselves stuck. Why don't you hire him for an hour or two and do a consult? He can explain to you the most glaring problems with this plan and some possible solutions or alternatives. He's a great resource and you should take advantage of the opportunity. At the end of the conversation, you will be able to make an informed, educated decision on your next step.

Regarding the plan, I'm just a real estate appraiser, but I see problems with resale and what we call external and internal obsolescence. This means you may have too much house for your market, too many garage bays in comparison with your neighbors , and there are things going on inside of the house that are either lacking features expected in the market or poorly executed. Not only will this cost you money to build, it will cost you even more when you go to sell. We all sell someday.

At a glance, this house needs a bedroom and full bath on the main floor. It needs a second half-bath if there isn't another full bath on the main floor. In this price range, it needs an elevator. Some portion of the garage needs to be detached from the main structure and treated as a shop. The dining room is much too small. Storage is not well executed.

You may be designing a white elephant. That seems to be the consensus of the feedback on the board. When people can afford to spend this kind of money, they usually recognize the value of hiring expertise that they lack. It's just smart business. This is too big an investment to do it yourself.

Great chart, Kiko! Sums up the thread in graphic format.

Having a mcbeer with dazureus as I type this, determining the fate of our turrets on our subjective mcmansions

I don't know why I care - it's your house and you can build it anyway you want. But the interior designer in me just can't help myself!

First of all, I wonder where your wife is in all this planning? In my 73 years, I've known exactly two men who were deeply involved - truly in charge - of the house they custom built. In most cases, the wife has a huge file of ideas she's collected over the years and knows exactly what she wants as she's the one watching the children, doing the cooking, cleaning and laundry. What does your wife think of the plan?

Second, we all use words that are the same but may have a totally different meaning to each of us. "Entertaining" is one of these words. To me, it means a seated dinner party for 6-8 people, served in a formal dining room with good china, silver, crystal and linens. It may in the summer mean cooking outside and eating on the terrace. My house doesn't work for cocktail parties as it was not designed for that scale of entertaining. But to many, "entertaining" means having family/friends, usually with children, over for a casual meal. Even if eaten in the DR, it is a casual menu and the table is set casually. Children may or may not eat in this space. And of course, how often this happens matters as well.

For most people these days, my later definition is what they consider "entertaining". In that case, I often wonder why there is a formal DR as it might be better to have a large table near the open kitchen instead. How do YOU entertain?

I took another look at the butler's pantry and it really is more like a bar area. A butler's pantry is typically a long narrow room, with cupboards on both sides, usually with glass doors. It always has a large sink in it, and today, a dishwasher is often added. Sometimes, warming drawers are there as well. Butler's pantries are used by help getting food from the kitchen to the dining table. Often, the food is plated in the butler's pantry; most often, serving bowls of food are kept warm there. A pocket door would be useless as the door is to always be closed, thus a swinging door to facilitate service. Butler's pantries are great if one entertains formally or uses caterers and servers when entertaining. They can also be useful is there are numerous sets of dishes that need to be stored somewhere where they can be accessed, but not take up valuable space in the kitchen, where the everyday dishes are kept.

I go back to that enormous hall that is two story. Now cpartist and I have a different opinion about "waste space"; she abhors it, I LOVE it! I have no problem with a large entry hall and a lovey staircase. If one can afford to have such a space, by all means, go for it! If building on a tight budget, waste space/halls are the first to be cut. I'd like my own house a LOT more if the halls had not had their size cut - rooms are all quite reasonable size, but the halls are small and narrow. More and more people are getting away from the two story entry halls as they are expensive to heat and cool, and painting them involves scaffolding and costs a fortune. And they WILL have to be repainted at some point! Also, there is a huge loss of privacy and quiet on the 2nd floor. Not good if one has young children and entertaining after they've gone to bed.

Many years ago when living in a different city, I was good friends with a couple who lived in a marvelous house built in the 1920's. It was a house built for live-in servants - an entire wing on the 2nd floor was a row of maid's rooms, and there was a padded door between it and the family living space up there. They had the perfect butler's pantry as it not only opened into the DR, but also into the entrance hall, perfect for waiters to serve drinks and pass canapés, without having to go through the DR. But one of the things I liked best, was it had a 2nd floor family room at the top of the stairs. It was a very large room with lots of windows and light, and had a big fireplace at one end. They had library-type tables at the other end and that's where their two sons did their homework. Their TV was in this room, and the family spent most evenings all together in it. It was cozy and wonderful! And it left the first floor rooms for more formal adult entertaining. Instead of a "media" room, why not something like this on the 2nd floor?

I'm attaching pictures of four entrance halls/stairways that I adore and covet. One, is the one in my late in-law's house; one is the entrance hall of the great designer, Suzanne Rheinstein - I've been in it many times in past years. PLEASE give all this some very serious thought, and again, what does your wife think?

Houses of this style don't usually have corner boards or casement windows. The hipped roofs are usually truncated by low sloped roofs. The house could be made into something nice with more attention to the details. Its odd to see subdivision detailing on a house of this size and stature.

HH Richardson, Cambridge, MA

Having a mcbeer with dazureus as I type this, determining the fate of our turrets on our subjective mcmansions

Except dazureus's house IS NOT a McMansion. What you want to build is.

Now cpartist and I have a different opinion about "waste space"; she abhors it, I LOVE it! I have no problem with a large entry hall and a lovey staircase. If one can afford to have such a space, by all means, go for it!

Actually in this case, if the house were well designed I have no problem with a larger foyer. My sister has a gracious 1924 Georgian colonial with a gorgeous large entry foyer that also has windows at the end looking onto her backyard. In the center of the foyer is a beautiful round table with a hanging chandelier over it and on the sides are beautiful plush chairs and benches.

Part of the space is two story, with a wonderful staircase, and large doors with fabulous molding leading off to rooms on either side of the foyer. I can't imagine her not having her large foyer and in her large house it fits.

Where large entry halls don't work are in smaller homes where the entry hall is the size of one of the bedrooms. Not when space is at a premium.

It also doesn't work here because the rooms are small in comparison to the amount of space devoted to the hallway/foyer/entry. In a house with 6000 square feet, more room needs to be devoted to useful space too.

It was a house built for live-in servants - an entire wing on the 2nd floor was a row of maid's rooms, and there was a padded door between it and the family living space up there.

My sister's house has something similar. And it includes a second stairway back there for the "help".

sprink1es: We've given you a beating so thank you for sticking in. Here's a thought: maybe you should hire dazereus's architect? I think the elements of the stock plan that you both like are still in their plan but many shortfalls have been addressed. I'd show your wife dazereus's plans and talk about their changes.

I'm going to be even more blunt. You've now said you aren't sure about the rotunda, the garage, the front turret as the kids loft/playroom, and the media room. Those are some of the main features of this house! You've told us the house is already too big. You've even rationalized that you don't mind the lack of natural light because you are shade people! You are telling **us** this isn't the right house for your family.

Sprink1es -

This comment from you absolutely blows my mind:

Baths - I drew drop-in acrylic tubs for the
kids because I didn't want to drop $$ on more tiled/glass showers just for the
kids. The Guest Room bath is drawn with a stand-up acrylic shower - haven't
brought myself to put a full tile/glass shower here because in my head it would
rarely get used.

So let me get this straight...

- You are building a house that will end up costing $1 - $2 million dollars.

- You will spend literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on features such as turrets, rotundas, wrap around porches, huge/complex rooflines.

- Yet you don't want to spend a few grand on reasonable tub/shower finishes???

Let's be honest: the features you are enthusiastically spending all your money on are nothing but eye candy, bling, embellishments. Yet you're unwilling to spend a few extra grand on areas your family will use EVERY DAY??

You'd settle for builder grade tract home acrylic tub inserts so you can get your fancy $100K rotunda or turret? Interesting that you only plan to skimp on spaces that won't be seen by guests/neighbors (but that your family would use daily).

I'm completely confused as to why you are so passionate about this plan. Here are some of the comments you have made in earlier posts...

- The "Media Room" - I'm with you that
I don't like media rooms. Part of me still wants to delete it.

- The big turret in the front (and loft space)
I'm torn…I've been on the fence of deleting the front turret.

- But there are still the (2) turrets on the
chopping block, as well as the whole large garage that everyone is hating.

- When I look at it, it's a no brainer the back
garage should not be there.

- I agree, and [the wrap-around porch is] another
thing on the chopping block... I don't see half of the veranda as
"useful"

- I am battling the roof needing to be too tall.

- I don't love the circle rotunda…I'm
still tempted to swap it for a square stair system and do away with the circle.

- I could turn the formal Living Room into a flex
room to function as a bedroom, but I'd still be without a full bathroom on the
main floor... This downfall still bothers me.

So to summarize, you are considering eliminating many of the defining features of this house: 1) media room, 2) turrets, 3) back garage, 4) wrap-around porch, 5) rotunda, 6) formal living room.

Why not just start from scratch with an architect?

What an amazingly hot button topic! Definitely don't hire my architect! He was recommended by my now ex-builder and was difficult to deal with, to put it very politely. sprink1es should be commended for hanging in there with us while we tear apart his dream home. The thing I find interesting is that, besides the addition of the extra garage space, the proposed plan doesn't deviate from the inspiration plan by very much. The same "designer 1007" has 349 plans available on the eplans website and a few others that have almost the exact same layout with a different facade. [This[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/custom-home-building-traditional-exterior-chicago-phvw-vp~2011014) is a real world implementation of sprink1es house and it's the same that we drew direct inspiration from. The only difference is that we sat at the computer and decided what rooms we were and weren't going to use and pared the design down to reduce to usable space only. That process is highly subjective and what works for us might not work for others. I think the two least used rooms will be the first floor guest room and the formal dining room.

I've often seen that one of the main tenets of "good" home building design is to reduce room complexity. This will reduce exterior wall complexity and carry into reducing roof complexity. The reduction in complexity translates directly into a reduction of construction cost. The more wall sections you have, the more expensive it is to build. It's obvious that the inspiration plan has complex rooms that create a complex exterior envelope, but I think that's the purpose of the design. It's a big house designed for a specific demographic, so to blatantly display the lack of concern for money saving design is a statement in and of itself. What some might see as extraneous, gaudy, and ostentatious might be the norm for some communities and settings.

Based on the usability of the spaces alone, the inspiration plan doesn't seem easy to live in but as others have stated, it's made to impress. I'd like to add: "if you're into that kind of thing". Many of us aren't into that kind of thing, so we can't see the purpose for the spaces. We could have better utilized our rotunda space more efficiently for living space, but it was a design element that we wanted for the "wow" factor. It was a pain in the ass to implement but we'll love looking at it every day. I think if someone has the financial means, this design is a "look at all the -ucks I give" plan to a budget conscious ones most of us have to adhere to. If this is true, then it does it's job splendidly.

cpartist - I don't think dazureus's house is a mcmansion. However, some people here are really reaching wanting/trying to scream why this plan is. On dazureus's plan though, allow me to apply some negatives that everyone else (and yourself) is more than happy to apply to this thread's design (I really do appreciate your advice, don't mean to make it sound like I'm attacking you):

• turrets
• all the gables
• rounded staircase not letting rooms be perfect rectangles
• 2 story great room, oh my
• large overhand of veranda will create very dark 1st floor rooms
• etc etc etc.

Speaking of which - where did that satirical "mcmansion checklist" go? Are people deleting their posts?

There are a lot of these (subjectively) negative items that apply to both designs. I love dazureus's design. I just still think there is extra backlash on my design because the garage is ridiculous for other parts of the country (while it's normal here)

If you do think I'm battling too many architectural styles (all I was going for was a Queen Anne/Traditional blend), I'll also make an effort to shy away from a Queen Anne look so that's less dramatic.

Stan Z - fully anticipated and expected it, but I didn't come here to be defensive, I want and need advice and fresh eyes :) I really do love this plan (and haven't deviated from it all that much), it's just too hard to type an entire life story on here and keep every reader entertained enough to finish it. But on your comments, we seem to be dipping into a double standard here. On one hand, there's the majority "too much house, wasted space, inefficient common rooms, etc". On the other "turret, loft, media room, sitting room, etc that's what makes the plan". Everything is subjective and I really do like all the "extra" rooms/space, but if I had to draw a line they would be the first items to get cut. I also think a space labeled "Media Room" and "Bonus Room" etc is really throwing off those not brave enough to read the entire thread. Brings me back to how nobody wants to read 20 pages of my life story on exactly how this house "would" be finished lol. Pictures it is!

bobbyboob - on the showers - don't get me wrong. The reason I was avoiding tile/glass for kids because they're such a pita to clean. I have a large one now. Periodic grout sealing, unavoidable mildew/mold growing in corners, glass door that is impossible to keep clean... I love it, but I wasn't too enthusiastic about keeping 3 of them clean and current every week. It's not the $ part, I just didn't think it would be wise to do multiple tiled showers for kids. Also this plan costs nowhere near $2mil to build in my area, not in a big city. But I think you're getting the wrong idea on this topic

dazureus, the rotunda in your house works beautifully because not only being the eye candy it is, it also helps to tie the house together. It is the center point of the house connecting all the parts. That is the major difference between your well thought out layout, and what the OP is trying to create.

The truth is some of the grandest and most ornate houses, actually have some of the most simple exterior forms.

It's obvious that the inspiration plan has complex rooms that create a complex exterior envelope, but I think that's the purpose of the design. It's a big house designed for a specific demographic, so to blatantly display the lack of concern for money saving design is a statement in and of itself.

The question is if you have the money, then you have the money to design something that is truly unique and original for what your needs are. This house is trying to fit their lifestyle to the house instead of the house being fit to the occupants.

This house is meant for one reason only. It's to show off how well off the occupants are. It's similar to a person growing up on the (supposed) wrong side of the tracks, making it big and thinking if all the walls and furniture are gold, they have class and taste.

To reiterate - I do love the plan I came here with (although it is not finished, and does need work) but I am going to choose an architect to either "fix" it or possibly start from scratch.

It seems a lot of my comments are coming back to bite me now or just weren't really clear

In the mean time, please continue to voice suggestions or if you love/hate the design and why. Thank you again, everyone. Even if you have 10 reasons as to why you absolutely hate it, I'm still reading and considering that advice too. You won't upset me <3

Acrylic showers??? No. Just no. They're horrible! And a house of this magnitude doesn't deserve those. Keeping a tiled shower clean is no big deal (both of our bathrooms are tiled and they're CLEAN). We do NOT have glass doors. Curtains are easier to manage and easily replaceable/washable. Those kids can be taught to clean their own bathrooms, BTW.

On dazureus's plan though, allow me to apply some negatives that everyone else (and yourself) is more than happy to apply to this thread's design (I really do appreciate your advice, don't mean to make it sound like I'm attacking you):

• turrets
• all the gables
• rounded staircase not letting rooms be perfect rectangles
• 2 story great room, oh my
• large overhand of veranda will create very dark 1st floor rooms
• etc etc etc

First, I never claimed turrets and gables are a negative. My house has gables, and one of my favorite victorian homes has a turret.

The veranda will create darker rooms because it won't allow light to enter them. So the idea is to not surround the house on 3 sides with verandas and then cover the fourth side with huge garages. Like with everything there is a happy medium and a good designer or architect would be able to help you with that.

However your exterior is a hot mess of mixed metaphors. Again, I HIGHLY recommend you purchase the book, What Not To Build.

As mentioned in my comments above, d's rounded staircase works very well because it becomes the centerpiece of the house, (here's his house plan) while still allowing for great flow to all the rooms. YOURS DOESN'T! His is the "spine" on which all the downstairs and upstairs rooms branch off from.

Also note D's Exterior and compare it to yours. His has a simplicity so the two main elements are highlighted. You first notice his turret and front door and then admire the other elements.

Your front is such a mashup that one doesn't know where to look first!

There are a lot of these (subjectively) negative items that apply to both designs. I love dazureus's design. I just still think there is extra backlash on my design because the garage is ridiculous for other parts of the country (while it's normal here)

Yes the garage is a problem, but the house itself is just as much a problem. Here I've eliminated the garage. While slightly better, it's still a mishmash of styles. It's unbalanced.

If you do think I'm battling too many architectural styles (all I was going for was a Queen Anne/Traditional blend), I'll also make an effort to shy away from a Queen Anne look so that's less dramatic

Queen Anne's when done well are gorgeous. But if you love queen anne's then study up on what real queen anne's look like, not the builder version. Then work with an architect who understands queen anne and wants to pay homage to the style.

Here's a Queen Anne style.

BTW: I would also research shingle style homes. Being you're on a lake, that style really will go well with the area and they too are grand homes.

I can understand the acrylic shower/tubs in one scenario with young kids (same goes for floors and furniture). Our building mantra has been that you spend money on the "bones" of the house and save on stuff that can be easily renovated and upgraded later. Turret, rotunda, structural stuff, wiring; we're spending money on now. Tubs, floors, furniture? Ideally you wouldn't have to replace it, but with young kids, realistically, you probably will have to just from wear and tear. Ironically, we had to go with an (expensive) acrylic master tub because we couldn't implement our first choice, which used engineered solid stone. We are using cast iron tubs in the other tub bathrooms though, which was surprisingly affordable.

In the mean time, please continue to voice suggestions or if you love/hate the design and why. Thank you again, everyone. Even if you have 10 reasons as to why you absolutely hate it, I'm still reading and considering that advice too. You won't upset me <3

Honestly, I know I am and I'm sure everyone else is glad you're taking the criticism in the manner in which it was meant. Truly when shelling out so much money for a grand house, make it truly grand, wonderful and unique in a good way.

And when you do, please come back and show us what you came up with.

I can understand the acrylic shower/tubs in one scenario with young kids (same goes for floors and furniture). Our building mantra has been that you spend money on the "bones" of the house and save on stuff that can be easily renovated and upgraded later. Turret, rotunda, structural stuff, wiring; we're spending money on now. Tubs, floors, furniture?

D, I can understand too using acrylic tub/shower and less expensive flooring etc with kids, in most homes. However this home of sprinkles will wind up somewhere between $1-$2 million dollars. That's not a price tag for a home with acrylic tubs, with maybe the exception of SF or other areas where $1 million will only get you a starter home.

And anyway, children should be taught to respect their house.

Go to the architect with what it is you do love about the house (the rotunda) and your wants and needs.

I will say that one thing so many of us make when buying or building a home is thinking once we're in our "dream" house, we'll suddenly start living in a certain way. Not going to happen.

For example, when I moved into that large house I talked about earlier, I had visions of large house parties, entertaining lots of friends formally, etc. Well I hate formal entertaining and my idea of cooking is to bake, and then have the DH barbecue. That was one of the reasons so much of our house went unused (although I must say, it did look good!)

So really think hard about how YOU and your DW will use the house. What is truly important to you and her and what is just fluff. Then design it accordingly.

Another example, is DH and I entertain casually where we are in FL. We knew we wanted a large living room, but I'll NEVER host a sit down dinner. (See remarks above about barbecuing). So I made a smaller dining area and made sure my living room opened completely to the lanai by using pocket sliders. So once the house is built, DH can barbecue and friends can wander in and out of the house easily.

I'll chime in with changes (when I get to them) but I'll probably start a new thread after this one is "fixed" or redone with something else. Getting hard to sort through this one already. Have a good Thursday!

sprink1es,
I did not read all the comments.

One of my design mottos is: "Do not place an element with the only purpose of impressing others". This does not mean that I want something basic for everybody as one main consideration when designing is the 'status' and budget of the client.

Here is the thing: You have the money to pay for the house you posted above but the way it is, will impress everybody (who knows) the wrong way.

A home is a big investment. Unless you have a lot of money and do not care about losing some of it (which would be plain silly) if you ever need to resell, then, I strongly suggest to find an architect or person of talent to take your ideas to the next level.

If I have the time, I'd post some suggestions later on.

For those who might not have made the link naf_naf is the architect of the house currently being discussed on this thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4336381/our-planany-last-minute-suggestions?n=77

Sprink1es -

I'm confused. You seem to be saying two different things with respect to the bathroom finishes. This is your most recent post...

"The reason I
was avoiding tile/glass for kids because they're such a pita to clean…it's not
the $ part, I just didn't think it would be wise to do multiple tiled showers
for kids…I think you're getting the wrong idea on this topic."

But in an earlier post, you said this...

"I drew
drop-in acrylic tubs for the kids because I didn't want to drop $$ on more
tiled/glass showers just for the kids. The Guest Room bath is drawn with a
stand-up acrylic shower - haven't brought myself to put a full tile/glass
shower here because in my head it would rarely get used."

Which of these posts is the truthful answer?

The "tile is a pain to clean" rationale doesn't make sense to me. Who says you have to use 1" square glass tiles in the bathrooms? There are plenty of other options that would reduce/eliminate your concerns...slabs of natural stone, panels of manufactured stone, ect. Hell, even solid surface panels would be better than plastic.

A monster home, by a person with confused ideas / tastes. Sorry, but it sounds like a monstrosity.

Go to http://www.historichomeplans.net   and look at the plans and drawings of the real thing ...

I would also consider a large storage closet somewhere for Christmas
decorations. (Maybe I am projecting!) but I love having a large tree /
trees, lots of decorations, etc - and it's nice to have some dedicated
space. Storage seems to be a little lacking here.

I agree that -- except in the kitchen, where the storage is ample and just needs tweaking -- storage could be improved significantly.
Also consider making those
baths have a shower only instead of a tub. No one take baths after a
while and having a glass walled shower with a flat floor (or even zero
threshold) eakesthe showering experience so much nicer.

Eh, I don't know. The bathtubs in my house get a pretty good workout. With so many bathrooms "needed", I'd vote for making some of them shower-only and others shower-over-tub. If one kid ends up being a bathtub kid, you switch rooms around so he gets that bathroom.

The bigger problem, though, with the secondary bathrooms is that they're all minimal in size. None of them have any storage space -- not even space for a hamper. I'd give up some hallway space for better bathrooms; I'd rather see a jack-and-jill or a hall bath with a comfortable amount of space ... rather than a minimal bath for every bedroom.

Overall, I think that the house focuses more on the show features
than it does on improving the lives of it's occupants.

Definite a show house, not a place built for comfort or function.
I don't want to finish the basement, there's plenty of space already.

I don't live in the land of basements, so I feel somewhat out of my element commenting on them, but since the OP says he's building this oversized house so as to be prepared for the occasional family gathering ... it seems to me that a basement would be a sensible choice. It could be closed off when not being used.

Baths - I've been torn on this. I drew drop-in acrylic tubs for the
kids because I didn't want to drop $$ on more tiled/glass showers just
for the kids. Might ditch the tub and just do a nicer stand-up unit
though. The Guest Room bath is drawn with a stand-up acrylic shower -
haven't brought myself to put a full tile/glass shower here because in
my head it would rarely get used.

This makes no sense. This is a multi-million dollar house, but you're going to cheap out on tile?

I just still think there is extra backlash on my design because the
garage is ridiculous for other parts of the country (while it's normal
here)

The garage is part of it, but I really do find it hard to believe that the average person in your part of the country has a 6-car garage. I'm sure that's super high-end for anywhere.

Even if you do decide you want to build a garage this big, you're ignoring some pretty important details: This giant garage is blocking natural light, and it's eating up space on a modest-sized lot. The idea of a separate building makes sense. Use of garage lifts might make sense.

If you do think I'm battling too many architectural styles (all I was
going for was a Queen Anne/Traditional blend), I'll also make an effort
to shy away from a Queen Anne look so that's less dramatic.

You should stick with the look you like. Queen Anne style isn't the problem with the exterior; rather, the problem is that the exterior just has SO MUCH going on. It's overly busy. There's nowhere for the eye to rest -- you've heard the "less is more" thing; this is a perfect example. Multiple focal points fight with one another. on the showers - don't get me wrong. The reason I
was avoiding tile/glass for kids because they're such a pita to clean. I
have a large one now. Periodic grout sealing, unavoidable mildew/mold
growing in corners, glass door that is impossible to keep clean... I
love it, but I wasn't too enthusiastic about keeping 3 of them clean and
current every week. It's not the $ part, I just didn't think it would
be wise to do multiple tiled showers for kids.

So you're already concerned about upkeep of this giant house. This is a hint that it's too much.

I've often seen that one of the main tenets of "good" home building
design is to reduce room complexity. This will reduce exterior wall
complexity and carry into reducing roof complexity.

Agreed. Here's a quick layout of these same rooms ... as a center-hall traditional. Look how the wasted space disappears. Look how the rooms are better connected. The stair hall could still be large and gracious, with a showstopper of a staircase.

Honestly, I live in one of the lowest cost of living spots in the country (and in a rural area) ... but I don't think this house could be built for two million here. Even with acrylic showers. You're talking about two full floors plus a basement, including five bathrooms and a large kitchen and an oversized garage. Fancy ceilings, French doors, bump-outs, and more. And the rotunda itself will be over-the-top expensive. You know what they say about curved items in a house? They're shaped like a money sign.

The over-roofy style doesn't appeal to me, but to each their own.

Nearly 6000 sq ft for up to five people? Again, you may have reasons, but it won't be cost efficient or user friendly. But that's up to you.

I'm only going to mention three things: Those bedrooms you have with two walls but only one wall with windows? Why? That just speaks not being thought out, and going with a carbon copy plan from somewhere. If you are splurging on everything else, why not windows where ever you can add light and cross ventilation? If someone doesn't want light or cross-ventilation at all times, that's what curtains are for.

Secondly, if you or one of you has to live on a single floor for awhile, can you convert a room on the main floor for a bedroom, with a full bath nearby? This is not academic - I broke my ankle a year ago, and I could not handle stairs without human assistance for several months. Your place has the option to be big enough to handle that sort of situation.

You mention that several people will be cooking in the kitchen at one time, on occasion. You'll need a second sink! You especially NEED better flow than that kitchen would remotely pretend to provide. Your chefs will be tripping over each other. Are you yourself cooking? There's a lot of detail to consider!

With this size house, I'd seriously spring for an architect. There are a lot of non-standard things you want to have, and internet plans aren't geared for non-standard. They can provide valuable ideas, but...

If you can, try to visualize being in every doorway and picture what you see. Aside from perhaps the great room (if furnished correctly) and bedrooms 2 and 3, there is not one other room that has a pretty sightline when walking into the room. When you enter most of the rooms, you are looking at a partial wall, an odd angle, etc. Every sightline doesn't need to be great, but if you are going to have so few, I just want to make sure you realize it.

You will be extremely lucky if this only costs 2M. With that roofline fissioning into even more upon more ameobic blobs encroaching on the neighbor's lot, and the engineering required to hold that circus tent overhead rather than around your ankles, I'd expect this to be 3M territory.

An expense of that sort, confidently designed by an "and the kitchen sink" design amateur, who is mixing up details as though folding in candied fruit into a fruit cake, is bound to be a successful cost plus contact for the builder! Your future builder is really looking forward to this cash cow. But I bet he won't post any signs advertising him as he responsible party to putting together the mixed up tinker toys, Legos, and Lincoln logs. Look! There's an erector set!

Personally, I pay someone with the right tools to do my oil changes for me, even though I did them in the past. There is a reason that I pay a Pro for a $19.95 service. And that kitchen sink result above should be THE reason that you hire someone with better tools and education. You will get a much better, actually livable, result. In far less time.

I'm betting we've all been trolled. Just sayin.