Good discussions resulted from The Samurai's Garden(Gayle Tsukiyama), The Good Earth(Pearl Buck), Prodigal Summer(Barbara Kingsolver), Into Thin Air(Jon Krakauer) and Shadow Divers(Robert Kurson.) Nor do we travel too far from standard bookclub fare, though we do at times and that, too, can be successful. I don't see anything wrong with the occasional book that bombs; in my group, we all agree that being forced to read outside one's "box" is a good thing now and then. Additionally, most of us are avid readers reading far more than a single choice a month so it doesn't really matter if, now and and then, a book doesn't work out but that is probably because we also enjoy socializing as a group.

My general fiction group reads:

>ARthur and George by Julian Barnes

>News from Paraguay by Lily Tuck

>Zorro by Isabel Allende

>Hummingbird's DAughter (yes we were on a Latin American kick for a few months)

>Mermaids Chair

>Thralls Tale

>Cloud Atlas

>Snow Flower and SEcret Fan

>Water for Elephants

>next month A thousand spelndid suns

>December: Book Theif

They also tend to read what everyone else is reading but they are willing to read outside the box now and then.

Cindy, what did you and your group think of News from Paraguay? Frankly, I thought it was a mess...when it could have been so interesting.

sarah canary - What a great idea for deciding the next year's reading list! I am going to explain it to our group and see if there is any interest. Thanks for posting it for us at RP.

Thanks for the input, Bookmom and cindy. I'll check out some of those titles. We read Samurai's Garden several years ago and it was a favorite.

thyrkas - We've come to the conclusion that it's a good idea if at least one member has read the book choice previously. It hasn't weeded out all of the stinkers but it certainly has helped.

I like that idea as well, and since its hard to decide on boks for December, that gets us off the hook and at the same time gets us thinking of books!

frieda, thats actually one I ended up not reading; nothing about the book but IIRC I was super busy with school that month. I did hear about the discussion; most folks were 'eh' about it for reasons I can't remember.

In my serious group we will, upon occasion, pick a book that reflects ourselves or our home region. An architect last year picked a book about the rebuilding of the twin towers site. This year she picked The Life and Times of the Thunderbold Kid because she also grew up in Des Moines. I picked a Sharyn McCrumb to reflect life in the hills of East Tennessee, another picked Doris Kearns Goodwin's Wait Till Next Year about growing up on Long Island. An avid kayaker picked Deep Water Passage by Ann Linnea about a kayak trip circumnavigating Lake Superior. You get the idea. Of course, that wasn't what you asked.

Books that generated a lot of discussion:
ÂBeryl Markham's West With the Wind
ÂJames McBride's The Color of Water about his mother whom we all hated, but it generated great discussion.
ÂDavid Baron's The Beast in the Garden: A Modern Parable of Man and Nature (my most popular pick)
ÂDavid Halberstam's The Fifties This might not work in a group of young people, but for those of us born in the 50s it was a great examination of issues we grew up with but didn't understand.
ÂJon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven about some fundamentalist breakaway sects of Mormons (The leader of one was just convicted for the rape of a young woman whom he forced at 14 to marry a cousin.) and generates a lot of questions about women's issues.

>James McBride's The Color of Water about his mother whom we all hated, but it generated great discussion.

I had my problems with the book, but in general thought it good. Why did your group hate it so much?

We didn't hate the book; we hated the mother. We thought she was a narcissistic witch who made choices that made life harder for her children.

>In my serious group we will, upon occasion, pick a book that reflects ourselves or our home region.

chris -- I like that idea. I wonder if I can get the group to incorporate that next year? Although I'm not sure just what book I would choose, maybe Anne Lamotte's Bird by Bird, or something set in the San Diego area. Hmm ... I'll have to think about this. Thanks for the idea.

I'm not sure that sharing any of my book club selections would be helpful. As I mentioned in my introduction, I snagged them all from RP recs.

However, while on this topic, I was just wondering if any of your book clubs suffer from afflictions similar to mine. We have a hard time breaking out of the conventional choices, we also struggle to get everyone to read the selection and it's becoming increasingly difficult to manage any discussion of the book before slipping off into gossip and visiting.

The women in my club were friends first, members of the reading group later. I am struggling to find an inoffensive way to either lay down some ground rules or disband. Any suggestions or even just someone to commiserate?

Just to commiserate about the gossiping and visiting issues. This has been the experience with several book clubs I was in briefly, in the past. One book club hostess insisted on serving wine in the evening, and matters deteriorated from there. Could you possibly take a vote among the members to ascertain if they are willing to lay down some basic ground rules? One such rule could be: "We will discuss the book from 7 to 8 p.m. and from there open the floor to other topics." I don't think this problem is unique to womens' book groups.

Hi cherry_lane,

My club definitely suffers from some of the same afflictions. We occasionally break out of the conventional mold and find something unique or quirky to read. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. As a whole, my group seems to prefer the standard book club fare. One or two of us prefer to go farther afield, and we convince the others to come along on occasion.

Regarding how to get the group to stay with the discussion: It helps to have a de facto leader. I played that role for many years with my book club until I finally burned out. I got so frustrated one year that I nearly left the club. The final straw was a meeting when the assigned book was Little Woman. Four members showed up for the meeting (out of 10) and two of us had actually read the book.

My friend, another member, convinced me that I should just relax and treat the club like the others all treat it. That means if I don't want to read a book, I don't. If I don't want to attend a meeting, I don't. That's not the way my dream book club would work, but it's one way to approach it. And I'm less stressed when I approach it this way.

We've also learned that to get the book discussion going and to keep it on track, there needs to be one member who is willing to say "Should we discuss the book now?" And when conversation strays, this member might say "So, getting back to the book..." Another idea is to ask the group to set aside a limited amount of time for socializing, as woodnymph suggested. We usually spend the first 30 to 45 minutes just chatting and catching up. We seem to congregate in the kitchen area during this time, for some reason. Then we move into the living room, or whatever area, to begin the book discussion. This creates a nice breaking point from which to begin the real discussion.

Hope that helps.

That leader role gets tiring. I've been playing that for close to 3 years now. It starts to feel less like a coordinator and more like a preschool teacher, "Come on kids, we need to finish our task before snack time and potty break." I'm finding myself in the burnout stage you mentioned, Sarah.

I have given myself a lecture similar to the advice your friend offered you. Relax, go with the flow, who cares? But at the end of the day, I'm in book club to discuss books, share ideas and broaden my perspective on authors and their works. If I wanted to schmooze, I would organize a cocktail party.

I've noticed what is happening more often is that about half the group will read the selection. And while we discuss, the other half starts talking about latest celebrity gossip or reviewing TV shows, one by one we drift off and leave the book abandoned, lonely for lack of attention.

And it's not supposed to be stressful, it's supposed to be enjoyable...I will work harder to lower my expectations. It saddens me because I've found I really enjoy hearing what other people glean from a book. Everyone reads through a different lens and somehow it becomes 8 different stories to 8 different people. I find that feedback valuable.

I don't mean to sound bitter, I guess I just thought organizing a group, making time to meet and choosing the book would be the biggest challenge, I think I was mistaken. Perhaps I will find what I'm looking for through discussions here on the forum instead.

Thanks for all the advice and keeping me company while I wear my whiny pants.

The bookclub I'm in was started by a friend and me and we had to take action to avoid being thought of as perpetual discussion leaders. We have about a dozen members. Once a year, we hold a planning meeting. Each member brings two or three books. Each member has a turn to present their books and then we vote on which book (of that member's selections) we want to read. That member is assigned a month and in that month, she is responsible for preparing for and leading the discussion for her book. This way, we have a schedule made out a year or so in advance, each member has month to lead the discussion and we all some vested interest in reading the books and reduces any guilt over picking a stinker--after all, we voted on it. We are in our sixth year and this system is still in place.

As far as struggling with keeping the discussion on track, we've been there, too. We meet in a restaurant, so usually we socialize a bit until we order and then we start the book discussion and talk about it till we've depleted the subject and then back to socializing. Sometimes a "splinter" group needs to be reminded that we are talking about the book right now, but it is all in good humor.

Hope this helps!

cherry lane, I can certainly commiserate: many of the things you mentioned made me decide I was not book club material. I am quite gregarious and sociable when I want to be, but when I join a book group I want to talk about books, not about the shop where Millie gets her manicures or how adorable little Jenny was at her dance recital.

The most annoying thing, to me, was I would knock myself out reading and trying to think of something pertinent to say about the usually not-at-all-edifying book the group had chosen. Only to find out at the meeting that half the group hadn't bothered to read the selection themselves or if they had, all they wanted to say about it was how much they loved or hated it, then on to the refreshments and the gossip. And it didn't seem to matter if there was a group leader or not.

I loathed most of the book choices because I guess they were what you call conventional or standard book club fare (sarah canary's term). I'd swear that, at any given time, most of the book groups in the States are reading the same handful of books that other groups are reading. Do they have so little imagination or such a lack of self-confidence that they can't choose something a little less mainstream? I've come to think of certain books (and authors) as book club types, and I don't mean it as a compliment.

I probably sound snooty, but before I found the Internet the only way I thought I could connect with other readers, outside my own family, was through book discussion groups. I was profoundly disappointed, though, and I think I still am. I realize that there are quality discussion groups out there somewhere -- some RPers and others seem to have found them but I can't seem to.

I've concluded that book clubs aren't for me. I've experienced some of the same disenchantments.

I, too, see the same books/authors get nominated and voted in time after time. The cycle reminds me of a bad chain letter that just keeps getting passed around and around. I sometimes wonder if clever marketers aren't behind starting some of the suggestions for these book clubs. However, I find clubs work like most other human interactions. A hierarchy develops within the club and a few people's tastes and opinions tend to dominate over time. That's when I say goodbye.

I don't have a problem with people nominating books they've already read if they are willing to commit to a re-read. What I've found happens, though, is that they use this as a way to weasel out of reading the book, and then come discussion time have nothing to say because they don't remember the book well enough to discuss. I grew very frustrated with that.

In the end, I decided that I was the only one willing to stretch myself to read books I wasn't particularly interested in reading, and if other members couldn't show me the courtesy to show up for discussion or attempt to read the selections that a majority voted for, it wasn't worth it.

I, too, need discussion and not trivial socializing and gossip. I read to learn, to escape from the mundane demands of daily life, and to expand my mind. Nothing bores me more than to listen to someone's shopping tale or the one upmanship that inevitably occurs when certain women get together and start comparing their wedding rings. Ugh!

I chart my own reading course from now on.

With all that said, though, I have to admit that I did read some books that I enjoyed that I wouldn't have picked up otherwise. I guess we can't expect every book to be a winner when we decide to participate in a club environment.

Georgia, what you wrote re clever marketers behind some of the book club selections is so accurate. When I was working in a local book shop a few years back, I used to see especially-prepared pamphlets so labeled, with questions ready-made for book club discussions. Also, what about the "best seller" published with that special section in the back labeled "Questions for your book study group"? And of course, there are the big "chain" bookstores which host all sorts of "book clubs" almost every night of the week.... The small independent bookshop where I worked offered a discount for members of its book groups which met in the shop for the books discussed.

>This has been the experience with several book clubs I was in briefly, in the past.

Ditto, I have run quickly away from groups that are excuses for social clubs.

>at the end of the day, I'm in book club to discuss books, share ideas and broaden my perspective on authors and their works. If I wanted to schmooze, I would organize a cocktail party.

Again, ditto.

The ones I am in are all at bookstores. The atmosphere makes it conducive for staying on task. Stryaing from the book usually means we are talking about other books! But I so know what you are going through. I don't think many people in book groups take it seriously. Now I don't want it to be a college lecture (I ran quickly away from one I tried like that a while back), but its a book group. There to read and discuss books, and have fun doing it. If its not, it needs to be called something else.

If its no longer fun for you, then you might try a serious disucssion at the start of the next group. Be honest with what you were expecting, what you want. Ask them if they share your expectations. If not, then jsut suggest skipping the book part and making it a social hour between friends. That discussion should tell you loads.

> Perhaps I will find what I'm looking for through discussions here on the forum instead.

I found that I can better accept some convention from my book groups because I belong to online forums. Here, we can really discuss with no time limit. Makes it much easier for those who enjoy doing this. Then when I go to my groups, I'm not quite as frustrated. And yet -

>I'd swear that, at any given time, most of the book groups in the States are reading the same handful of books that other groups are reading. Do they have so little imagination or such a lack of self-confidence that they can't choose something a little less mainstream?

My complaint too. I don't think its snooty, I think its that we are voracious readers, and have at our fingetips many non mainstream books and want to discuss them. Many folk just want to choose what ever is on the Booksense list and read the questions from the book guides. Many people want groups to be safe, don't want to try something new. And like you, it drives me crazy. Its a book club culture and its hard to find places, except on the net, where its otherwise.

I read an article in the Mpls Star Tribune about a book club that doen't fit the model that I have come to expect. First of all it is held in the theater section of a trendy restaurant/bowling alley, called the Bryant-Lake Bowl, and their bookclub event is named "Books & Bars". The article called "Books and Bars", which has an attendance ranging from 60 to 100 book (and beer) lovers each month, "perhaps the largest and most certainly the loosest
book club in the Twin Cities."

I don't know if I would want to be a regular member of this club, but I would certainly like to see what goes on there at least once!

Here is a list of some of the books for discussion from "Books and Bars" :

Wake Up , Sir, by Jonathan Ames
The Omnivore's Dilemma, by Michael Pollan
Cat's Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut

thyrkas - I'd say that club would be worth attending at least once just for curiosity's sake. Let us know if you go. :)

Just might have to do that, sarah! You can read the rest of the article if you Google "Spirited Discourse" and click on the same phrase - it should be at the top of the page.

I'm feeling very lucky in that my serious reading group is both serious about books and social. Yes, we drink wine and beer at our dinner meetings but we are eager to discuss the books and must force ourselves to wait until we are all gathered. The person who selected the book leads the discussion and comes with additional material relating to the book. The reading guides are generally afterthoughts, run through quickly to see if there is anything we missed that we want to discuss.

My other more social group still has a core of serious readers and since they are people I see regularly anyway, we still get some good discussions going even if not at the meeting.

Thanks for all the advice and commiseration.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I also think some members of book clubs are really in it for a social gathering, but realize telling their husband/significant other that they're in charge of dinner, kids, the dog, etc. so that they may go socialize seems less legitimate than "Honey, I am off to engage in my intellecual pursuit, surely you understand this is purely for my own edification, and if it were anything less than necessary for my mental health I would be here with you changing diapers."

Of course this plan is shot if you're a member of Books and Bars. The cat's out of the bag by the name alone.

I'm the first to admit I like both the book discussion and the socializing (which generally includes talk of other books) at my bookclub and don't see them as mutually exclusive. Look at this forum--sometimes the threads stick to a book discussion, sometimes they veer rather sharply. I also know that my clubs' married members (including me) do not need to stoop to subterfuge to get out of the house. Cherrylane, it sounds like you are in a book club that doesn't really want to be a book club. If you don't have like-minded members, I imagine keeping a group going to foremost discuss books would be tough.

Books and Bars? I'd be game, as would be some of my book club pals though I wonder what kind of organized discussion could be had with 60 or more imbibing folks.

Well, I'm in my book club primarily for the socializing! I would read books anyway. I enjoy the social aspect of discussing books with others, and I really like the women in my group. I realized one day that while I had garden friends, and sewing friends, and friends I used to work with, I knew almost no one who lived the same town as me, despite having lived there for 18 years. I knew that the mother of one of my daughter's friends was in a book club, and asked her if they were taking new members. The rest is history, and I'm having a whale of a time. I'm even reading books I'd otherwise never have encountered on my own. Some I like, some I do not, but it does expand my horizons.

You guys are too funny! You did exactly the same thing to this thread as the people you are complaining about do to the clubs! LOL
Back to the original question......top book club choices please!

Oh, look! karalk mocked us for not using every post to answer the initial question and then didn't answer the question either. What recursive humor!

>You guys are too funny! You did exactly the same thing to this thread as the people you are complaining about do to the clubs! LOL

Um - this is a forum for talking about books and issues surrounding them. sarah asked a question about book choices for book clubs and it evolved into chat about book clubs themselves with cherry lanes question. I guess I don't see the problem. We are still talking about book clubs, and for the most part are listing book club choices. But if the chatter is too much, instead of mocking us, bring us back on topic by writing your list of book club choices.

I apologise, I thought my friends on here were able to laugh at themselves and made a joke. My mistake.

I'm not currently in a book club - haven't been able to find one that meets my needs in terms of the quality of selections. Here are a couple of titles that I think would be good book club selections:

The Awakening by Kate Chopin
A wonderful read, considered an early feminist novel, published in 1899. The book is only 109 pages. I recommend the Norton Critical Edition as the supplementary information is very worthwhile.

Stern by Bruce Jay Friedman
His first novel, published in 1962. One of the most humorous books I've ever read.

Sorry karalk. I was wrong.

No problem Cindy. I appreciate the apology. It may have been the British thing. We tend to say things in a way that comes across differently to Americans. After thirty years in the States I guess I should know to be more careful.

I am not sorry. That was a passive aggressive post compounded by by noting we were unable to laugh at ourselves and take a joke. Classic passive agressive behavior. Say something rude, when confronted claim it was just a joke.

And Karalk still hasn't offered up any book selections.

Chris, LOL means Laugh Out Loud. I'm sorry you're suffering from so much anger.
The reason I have'nt offered up any suggestion is that I don't have any, I only just recently joined a book club.
I hope you feel better soon.