I've never had the problem of a book stinking, but I have not liked books. I read it out of respect for the person who chose it. And I remind myself that I tend to choose off the wall books that they all try to read. I speed read if I'm hating the book.

Pam...as Chris suggests and as you have done, you should attempt to read the book. After the attempt (out of respect for the club members), you could and maybe should stop the read, and when the time comes, tell them your reasons for stopping. This has a positive aspect: rather than making disparaging remarks to them about the book/author, you can claim "no opinion", and thus not offend anyone with your honesty. Further, you have a good reason to go and get another cup of tea while they discuss something you would wont to sidestep.

My two cents worth.

Bob

We've had books in our book club where members (including myself) have admitted they couldn't compel themselves to read the book. We have had the occasional book where almost no members finished the book, or those who did didn't enjoy it. I don't think it's disrespectful to say "I didn't enjoy this book because....." as long as you give a considered reason and don't just cop out with "... because it was carp." :-)

We often choose books that stink to at least one person. Some of the best discussions we've had have been with books that have many negative features, or a book that really polarized the group. This could be one of those for your group.

As far as not finishing it - I agree, life is too short. After slogging through Down on your Knees, I said never again. So I have gone to the group when I haven't finished a book, but I am always prepared to say why, and I am always curious about reactions of those who did finish it. Now and then, I realize that I really did miss something and need to try it again (other times they comments just confirm my disgust!)

This is a tough one, Pam. I've struggled with it myself over the past 12 years with my book club. I'm a bit of a die-hard and hate to not finish a book. However, there were two that I didn't finish, for very different reasons. I didn't finish Kite Runner because I found it so disturbing. But I attended the meeting and explained how I felt. I did skip ahead and read the ending ... my friend said I should.

The other book I didn't finish was The Baron in the Trees by Italo Calvino. That book just struck me (and everyone else in the group) as so silly, that I just didn't finish. I regret now that I didn't try a little harder, though.

I've been very disappointed with my book group at times because few of them seem compelled to finish a book just because we're supposed to discuss it. Unfortunately, I've found that often when someone hasn't read the book, yet still attends the meeting, they're less interested in staying on topic.

Last year, I was feeling so unhappy with the situation that I'd thought about quitting the group. I finally decided, thanks to a friend's coaching, that I needed to relax about it and approach our meetings just like many of the rest of the members do ... read the book if I want to, don't read it if I don't want to. Show up if I want to, don't show up if I don't want to. We once had only four people show up for a meeting and only two of us had read the book (Little Women). Taking such a casual approach to the group goes against my nature, but I have to say it has relieved some stress in my life. I also stepped down as the group's leader, which probably helped the stress, also.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Pam - just out of curiousity - what is the book you're struggling with?

Here at RP, we don't take it to heart if someone else doesn't like a book one of us has suggested for discussion - why should a real-life club be any different?

About the only thing I would say is that in my opinion, fifty pages is sometimes not enough to realize and appreciate what's going on - but any book that hasn't convinced you by a hundred deserves to be abandonded. If you've read a hundred pages, no-one, no matter how likely they are to take offence, could say you didn't try.

This is not a book to lay aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force. - Dorothy Parker.

PAM, for an English person the use of the word stink is 'interesting' . . . and please don't think I'm trying to get at you over this, someone on another thread used the same word to describe the non-US accent of the '30's English film star Leslie Howard in GWTW. . . .it is just the different word-uses between the US and the UK.
Over here we mainly use the word 'stink' in relation to smell, although we may say someone is 'stinking rich' or 'a big stink' (ie a big fuss) was made of something.
We once had newly arrived to the UK American guests for a meal. When the younger boy had finished he pushed his unfinished plate away from him. His Mother said "Don't you want to eat that J?" He replied "No, I'm done. It stinks.
The mother made no comment about this remark, not even a raised eye-brow or a sharp kick under the table but my children's eyes opened wide in a "what's going to happen next?" way. As though the f*** word had been uttered - by Granny - in church.
So when you use the stink word, what are you saying . . . and I'll know what they really thought of my cooking? :-)

And yes, I know that many many people in the UK use terrible/inappropriate language without turning a hair, the like of which would make an American sailor blush.

veer,

When I wrote the book "stinks" I meant that I thought it was no good... as in rotten. (Sorry about your cooking. I am sure it was the child's taste buds and not your culinary talents.)

You are all correct that out of respect for being a part of the group, I should make every attempt to read the book in question. And Martin is right that 50 pages is not enough to properly judge the book. I've since read another 40 and still dislike it.

The book is Little Children by Tom Perrotta. What parts do I dislike? The fact that it is so poorly written, so full of pointless cliches, sad and predictable "plot", stereo-typical characters of minimal depth and gratuitous sex scenes that seem inserted solely to add "spark" to the book but do not seem to add further dimensions to the story.

Whew. That being said, I do love my book clubbies and would never want to hurt their feelings. In three years, I've only not read one other book that was chosen. That other book was The Memorykeeper's Daughter.

Your opinions are much appreciated.
PAM

Vee - I have to say that if I were anyone's guest for a meal, and one of my kids didn't like the food (for whatever reason - kids tend to be fussy!) I wouldn't mind if the child said "I'm sorry, but I'm full". If my child were a bit more honest, and said "I'm sorry, but I don't like this sort of food", I think I'd be slightly embarrassed and defensive - but I don't think I - or my host - would be too upset. But if one of them said "It stinks!" or "It's horrid!", I would expect my host to be affronted, I would be deeply embarrassed and apologetic to my hosts, and my kid would be given a mild rebuke at the table and a serious telling off in private later!

Some parents, eh....

Martin I truly agree with you
I use to say to my wife: most of the time , troubles come, not from other children , but from other
parents.

grelobe

PAM

I did not finish either of those two books.

>The fact that it is so poorly written, so full of pointless cliches, sad and predictable "plot", stereo-typical characters of minimal depth and gratuitous sex scenes that seem inserted solely to add "spark" to the book but do not seem to add further dimensions to the story.

That would be enough for me to stop at 40 pages.....

As someone who often has book choices put down by other members, I agree sometimes it can be a bit frustrating to hear negative comments. But I take it as a discussion, not a popularity contest. I'd hope that who ever chose your book would see it the same way. And sometimes comments from another will make me see it in a different perspective and perhaps agree with some comments. We are there to discuss the book, and as hard as it is, I keep my focus there.

I agree, hurt feelings can happen. But what can you do? If everyone nods and grits their teeth and say 'oh it was lovely', what kind of a discussion is that?

As for my frustration - I have learned that books I can discuss here and other places online do not work with my book group. They are a lovely and intelligent bunch, but they like bestsellers that don't have tons of layers, that they can talk about for 45 minutes or so and then finish. I accept that, mainly because I like the group.

On what basis do Book Club selections get chosen? I've never joined a club because I like to read what I fancy and my taste in books is not that high-brow! I had enough of attending plays I didn't like when I did a stint as a theatre critic. Unlike abandoning a book, you cannot leave during a performance, although I did duck out of one during the interval! It was truly awful!!I heard an American expression that something 'stinks on ice' which I imagine is the ultimate in disparagement. Vee, it could have been worse! When a guest was asked if they enjoyed a meal as he ate it all up, he replied that he had always been told to empty his plate. Ouch!!

Oh dear, Pam, I believe The Memory Keeper's Daughter is the next one on our book club's list. One member read it and didn't think it was that great, but another thought it would make for a great discussion ... so I guess we'll be reading it.

Veer -- My aunt once sent foil-wrapped packets of cake home with her departing dinner guests, who graciously thanked her. The next morning on her way to work she happened to glance into the trash can near her parking spot and spotted all four neatly wrapped packets thrown in with the rest of the garbage. :( In their defense, she really was a terrible cook. No matter what meat she used, she wrapped it in foil and cooked it at 350 degrees for at least an hour.

PAM, I had second thought about joining our local book club when the woman in charge couldn't remember the title of the book they were reading that month (not a good sign) and made sure everyone was locked in the library while the meeting took place; I decided they were better off without me.

Sarah, at least your Aunt was unlikely to poison anyone cooking at such high temps!
Martin I suppose I should admit to the boot being on the other foot regarding children's manners. We had been invited to a post-Xmas lunch party at the home of the local vicar . . . so had to mind our P's and Q's . . . and look out for the odd cat-hair in the gravy.
We were served a most unusual sorrel soup a luminous shade of green and presumably picked from the local headgerow. Our very small daughter said quite clearly "This looks most disgusting." Luckily her head only just reached above the table and in the general noise no-one appeared to have noticed. I think I probably put my elbow in her mouth.

YIKES! In the newspaper just this morning, the book I am struggling with for my book club has been turned into a movie of the same name. Starring Kate Winslet. As Chris in the valley suggested, out of respect for my fellow club members, I am still trying to turn those pages. It is painful. I feel like I am trapped in a very bad soap opera.

How are books chosen? We each take turns bringing four or five choices to the meeting. We read the backs and inside cover flaps and vote. I cannot complain too much because I was not at the meeting to vote this past time. (Those who do not vote have no right to complain.)

As the mother of young children veer, I would be mortified if either of them was so disrespectful at a friend's table. The rule in our house is: You cannot say you do not like something until you've tried it. And, if we are at someone's home, no matter how much you like or dislike the food, you always thank the hostess for her time and effort and for inviting you to share her meal. Period.

PAM

MY group discussed Wicked last night, chosen because the picker had just seen the show ($1400 for 3 tickets btw!) and loved it. Consensus was that the book wasn't so hot. I liked it better than most. The woman who liked it least noted that it was a good choice because it generated a lot of discussion. So there you go. Sometimes we like books and have little to say about them. Sometimes we hate books that have a lot to say. The challenge is to find books that we enjoy reading that have a lot to say. My group is reading a bio of Castro next, by a guy who was with the state department in the 90s. Not what I would have picked, but one of the reasons I like this group is it takes me out of my ruts.

This discussion reminds me of an incident (semester long) my son had in college. You need to know that since early teens he has had extremely conservative political leaning. He got boxed in to having to take a class on the environment for his science requirement. The professor was about as far left as my son was far right. Sounds like trouble, no? Well, my son got an A in the class, he and the professor became friends. The professor was delighted to have him in the class, because it was the first time in ten years he had someone in the class who "thought", and who challenged him...he said it was the first time he had enjoyed teaching the class.

>Consensus was that the book wasn't so hot.

This is one of those books that would have stymied my book group as well. Its a book that first is a perfect take on Baum's original books - full of satire and politics. Its also a book with many many layers. I remember being blown away by it - but also know that if you don't have some background in the original books, you might lose something in the read.

And I sooo want to see the show.

We chose books twice a year - everyone brings in one book, we vote for two, then vote for one of the finalists for the next 5 selections. Usually there is variety among them, so in the same year they might read Mermaids Chair and Birds Without Wings. However, this time around we seemed to have ended up with a Latino streak. We read Carumba last month (which I liked), this month was News from Paraguay (which I didn't have time to read but looked interesting) Next month is Zorro (which I've read eh, I usually love Allende, tis one fell flat) and in May is Hummingbird's Daughter, which I've read and absolutely loved. Should be an interesting group of discussions!

Veronicae, what a great story! It's so true... the best discussions are when people bring different viewpoints to the table. I'm reminded of a line in Ursula Le Guin's novel, The Dispossessed:

"The idea is like grass. It craves light, likes crowds, thrives on crossbreeding, grows better for being stepped on."

My most frustrating experiences with bookclubs are when people have nothing to say. Most frustrating of all is when the person who suggested the book has nothing to say or doesn't show up for the discussion.

Right now my book club is reading "Water for Elephants" to be followed by case histories. Our last book was "Stolen Child" (my choice) and before that "March". Didn't love March. Our group is laid back enough that some members don't even finish the book (or start!). They come for the wine and conversations with friends. I liked The Memory Keepers Daughter, but I may be biased as the author is originally from my small town in upstate NY.
Jo

$1400 for three tickets for Wicked???

I saw it in the West End for about $250 for three tickets....with the original Broadway star, too.

Good show - but for heaven's sake - fourteen hundred dollars!

I could just about understand (though not justify) paying that sort of money for a once-off - like Superbowl or Cup Final tickets. But for a Broadway show??

Baffling.

Martin, 3rd row seats. She was entertaining clients. I miss being a client.

The cost of tickets on Broadway is insane. I thought it would be fun to take the grandchildren to see Mary Poppins this summer when they visit. Until I realized it would cost around $800. That's a weeks pay...and when they visit I don't work and don't get paid. So...will rent the DVD with Julie Andrews...and we'll have popcorn and treats in the living room. Now, were a mirable to happen and Ms Andrews recover her voice and be invited to take the role...I might mortgage the house.

To keep this within book discussions...I had a brief book signing connection with Ms Andrews...she is very gracious. Her children's books are fun.

Hello. When my club picks a book I just can't read I either skip that meeting or showup and admit it, and say why. We are a pretty laid back group so no one gets their feelings hurt.

We all hated The Alchemist and had a great discussion ripping it to pieces.

We are now reading A Fine Balance. I am struggling s bit to stay engaged but so many loved this book I am sticking with it in hopes that it will soon grab me.

Pam, II

What makes me chuckle when reading this thread is how often book clubs are reading the same books. Fall to Your Knees, The Memory-Keeper's Daughter, Wicked, A Fine Balance (which I loved) Water for Elephants, etc. and I've noticed this in other bookclub-themed threads.

My club is 5-6 years old; most of us make a sometimes herculean effort to finish the book out of respect for the person who chose it (though every book we read has been voted on) as well as knowing that the discussion doesn't have a snowball's chance of success if the book hasn't been read. Personally, I could not finish "Seabiscuit" to save my life as I kept falling asleep while reading it. "A Beautiful Mind" was our inaugural book and nearly did our club in as almost noone could finish it. "Wicked" was also an unpopular choice with a number of members not finishing it and so was almost impossible to discuss which I found disapointing. We all read "Crossing to Safety" and enjoyed trashing it, unlike most other clubs who loved it.

By and large, our best discussion come when any or all of these factors come into play: most, if not all, members have read the book; the designated discussion leader has come PREPARED with questions, background info, etc.; the book actually has some meat to discuss (please don't ever make me read Sophie Kinsella again); and the book isn't universally liked by the members.

My club just had a terrific discussion using "TMKD." Even though I didn't find it well-written, it resonated with our group and had some grist for the mill.

So--yes, I usually try to finish up the book, even if it is just a cursory and skimming read. I also thought "The Little Children" was an awful book with flat characters and a nonsense story line and I would have to be "locked in" somewhere to re-read and discuss it. On the other hand, my clubs meets in restaurants for dinner and drinks and I have no doubt that some late nights, the restauranteur would like to lock us out...

> how often book clubs are reading the same books

I notice that as well, and keep pushing my group to read other types of books that most groups don't. But everyone seems comfortable off the same lists (usually the NYT Bestsele list or Book Sense)

I have also noticed many books published with reader guide questions enclosed, - instant book group read! Or not. Some of these are atrocious and when they are good, the 'guide' is filled with HS English Lit questions that do little to get the group moving.

>the designated discussion leader has come PREPARED with questions, background info, etc.;

Oh, definitely. Gives us a starting point, anyway.

Feeling guilted into it, I finally finished Little Children last night. At least it was consistent... awful right up to the very last page. It didn't feel like reading, it felt like punishment.

PAM

My whole book club hated Little Children...we wanted to slap them all back to sense. Whiny suburban stereotypes.
My book club is comprised of all Junior League members who discovered a mutual interest in books-and every now and again, in between deep reads, (just did Pride and Prejudice, next up-Faulkner) we do treat ourselves to a "brain potato chip," so how could we resist reading The Devil in the Junior League? Last week the intended leader discovered she must miss this morning's (breakfast) meeting, so I volunteered to try to come up with some questions. I started out just being flip-it's a beach book extraordinaire-but I discovered that you can, if you try, come up with some sensible questions even about funny fluff-but I don't know that the discussion will be terribly intense. But the baked oatmeal will be.

I usually try to finish each book, but sometimes find I can't, either because of time, or my attitude toward the book. In one of my book groups, there is one friend who continues to give me a hard time for a book I didn't finish about a year ago. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. Generally in that group, most people have finished, or almost finished the book. We generally have very good discussions, though we, unlike most BGs, don't have a designated leader. In my other group, all the women are older than me (and I'm in my 60's) and they expect me to lead every time. They actually want the discussion to be very superficial, and only discuss the book for about 15-20 minutes before getting off topic, but that's what they want and I enjoy the women so stick with it. Actually, one month, the book was so awful I didn't read it at all, just read the fly leaf and asked such general questions, that noone knew that I didn't read it.
I've been away from RP for quite a while, but was glad today to see this thread and the other one about chosing books for groups.