I would stay far away from this situation. There is probably a lot going on you don't know about. The wife needs to get a job because she needs to support herself.

Linda

"Am I crazy?" Yes. Maybe you are his next "mark" and while he is visiting his precious dog and telling you his sob stories he is really casing the joint. Even Jeffrey Dahmer was considered a gentleman - when he wasn't murdering people.

There are millions of people like him. Run.

I am all for helping people that are willing to help themselves. The wife whould be out working to help her children. This would be the first thing I would do. You can't help those that aren't willing to help themselves.

A while back I was trying to help a mother with 2 children. She gave me a real sob story. Come to find out she was hitting up alot of people . She has a good job but handels money poorly. She was going to the places where they loan you money until payday. She had used 6 of them and didn't pay any of them. We had a real long talk about money and I tried to get her to get someone to help her get things cleaned up. She wouldn't do this and today she is in a real mess. Her ex husband is great at paying his support and helping with the kids. When the support stops she will be in "BIG" trouble. I no longer feel sorry for her because she will do nothing to help herself. I can't do it for her.. Sounds kinda like your situation. You can support them but make them do something for themselves. I am where I am as well as you are because we did for ourselves.. Sometimes you just have to step back and let them go. It doesn't mean you don't care for them or what happens to them. They have to help get themselves up and going...

Now you know we're gonna tell you not to pay off his debts/problems, don't you? It won't do him any good in the long run. You don't have to choose between walking away or paying the $600. There are other ways you could be helpful in the long run. Even if the wife isn't your favorite person, she is now caring for young children alone. Your friend would probably appreciate someone checking in on his family. You could be a sounding board and words of wisdom in helping them figure out how to get trhough and solve their own problems, and make better choices in the future. Knowing someone cares, but still holds them responsible, can go much further in the long run than a quick $600 fix.

Stay away.

PS If he really did steal a computer, you can't make restitution for him. And don't pay for his lawyer - he can have a public defender if he needs one.

This is how this guy makes his living, preying on other people. You didn't misjudge him, he's a small-time con man, even if he doesn't seem like it. He probably is genuinely nice - most of the time, until it serves his purpose, like when he needs some cash.

I guess I'm getting so emotional over this because he is just like my brother, and I am just like you. No good will come of it, and you will be sorry you tried because your faith in his goodness and the goodness of people in general will be shattered.

Keep the dog, I guess, but keep up your guard around this guy if you continue to let him visit. A grown man should be able to adjust to the loss of a dog after a year and a half!

I think it's really nice you're compassionate and nice enough to want to help him but don't walk around with blinders on and get yourself hurt in the long run.

I'd stay away from this situation. It's his mess and he needs to get out of it.

Or this could all be a story made up by the wife, who is hoping you'll offer to give her money to help out her husband because she knows you like him. I would stay out of it. I'm sure she's desperate enough to try anything, even making up stories to prey on your sympathy.

People need to learn to sink or swim, sometimes. Sounds like this might be one of those times, as much as it hurts you.

I agree that there is probably alot more going on than what I know, but Jeffery Dahmer! That gives me goose bumps!

Really, I don't want to pay for the computer but I want to help in some way. Being supportive is about the best thing I could do.

Y'all are right about the woman needing to get a job. That's something that was the topic of discussion several times. Apparently, they couldn't afford another car and insurance for her to get back and forth to work. We live in the country so public transportation isn't available and there was the issue of cost of child care on a minimum wage job. I just feel like there are so many mothers out there with the same predicament, why are they different? Maybe she just needs a nudge and help in the beginning getting back and forth to work and with childcare?

With the guy, we talked alot about his hardships in life but I've got to say, he never asked or hinted to get a dime from us, nor did we ever offer. DH did help him get a temporary night job for some extra cash once and the guy worked very well. He sometimes filled in for a nighttime carpet cleaning business, too.

I'm really pondering over staying away, like some of you have suggested. Don't know that it's in my nature with someone I care about. Like stephanie said, I could at least check in on the famiy and do what I can non-financially.

susie53 - I don't want to be taken advantage of like that. Sorry it happened to you. :(

I've helped a lot of people and I don't regret it, but I don't want to support them. vique.

I'm like a flippin' dog with a bone when I get my mind on something.

flamey - never considered that this could be a story made up by his wife. Or part of it could be... the part about the $600 computer. Makes me hesitate even more.

We live in a small community where everyone knows everyone, at least law enforcement does. Wonder if it would be too "nosey" to talk to one of the deputy's and see what I can find out? I know them all.

sherrmann - sorry that you've had to deal with these sorts of situations with your brother. Makes it all the harder when it's family, I'm sure. They guy has adjusted to the loss of his dog, but we got a friend out of it. Just not sure what kind of friend. :(

vique - I'm with you on that one!

I say stay away also.

Well. .I know how you feel ..you are a tender hearted person. .if you just have to do something I would take the family some groceries just for the little kids sake. None of this is their fault and they do have to eat. Debbie

I agree with every response. They need to take responsibility for their own lives.

Unless I missed something, why was his license suspended? I think the first thing that comes to mind is DUI, which means another whole set of problems.

With him in jail now, the wife should have a car to drive, right? Some kind of job should be available. Is she on welfare now? In that case there will be food; I doubt they are going hungry.

You could go by and visit the wife and children, but don't even consider taking food or paying for any utilities or especially the computer.

Sure, talk to one of the deputys. It will help you to see things more clearly.

Sue

I agree with Debbie. It's not the kids' fault. Would they be eligible for food stamps or some sort of assistance? Shoot, we're bailing everyone else out these days, I'd think they could get some help. You could check into it for them--that would be a huge contribution.

RUN FOREST RUN..... I would bet that this is not the first time the 'ole boy has been in jail. Do not give any of those people money. Sounds like a con to me. If, and I say if you are sure that you want to know the true story on this go to the clerk of courts in that district. Most criminal records are public record. Stay away from this mess.

"If you just have to do something I would take the family some groceries just for the little kids sake. None of this is their fault and they do have to eat. Debbie "

I agree with Debbie. But under no circumstances provide anything financially. Sue is the only one who caught this - you made no mention of why his license was suspended. Yes, good people sometimes do bad things. But it's not like this was your buddy for years and you knew he was good and now he's made some dumb choices. You really don't know this man. Or his wife. Yes, she could be making up stories too.

I don't necessarily think that you need to stay away, but don't get sucked in either. In this instance I say your head should be leading, not your heart.

Well, I am nosey so I did go to the sheriff's office. The wife did not make up this story and the kid is not in jail, he's in prison. Apparently, if you get more than 30 days they send you off to the big house.

The deputy I first talked to that I've known for years was a bit surprised to hear the guy was in prison. He knew who I was talking about, in fact, when I brought the guy up, he said that the best thing that ever happened to that kid was the birth of his first child. ((WHAT? This guy was 17 when his first one was born!)) From what I gathered the kid was in trouble as a juvenile but had straightened up when he got a family. But, I also stopped by and talked to the wife on my way home. She is not his wife, they've never gotten married.

I talked to the deputy also that's investigating the case. He acted like he didn't want to talk about it and only answered my question because of the other deputy. He said that yes, the kid stole a computer and he will be taking it to the grand jury. Again, the other deputy was a bit surprised and just shook his head saying he thought that kid had gotten his act together. So, other than that I don't know anything about the b&e.

According to the wife (girlfriend) he is in prison because he was arrested for driving on a revoked license, not suspended. I don't know what the difference is. But, she said he had initially lost his license and put on probation because of an unpaid ticket then got a ticket for driving while it was suspended. I'm not sure I have that exactly right.

At the moment, I don't know what I think. I will take them some groceries, though. She got emergency foodstamps last week. $46 until sometime next month. That won't get them through.

Crazy. Run. Avoid at all cost.

The computer story the wife told does not even make sense. You say the wife told you he is being *investigated* for theft. A lot of people might be under the investigation. They may have a lot of suspects. Then you say she said something about *getting the charges dropped*. That means he is being charged with a crime NOT being investigated as a suspect. They charge you when they have all the evidence they need to make a case stick. Theft is a criminal case NOT a civil case so there is no "dropping the charges" if he pays for the computer before his court date. It is a charge of 'the state vs smith' for a criminal charge, not 'smith vs jones' as it would be for a civil case. If he bought a computer and did not make the payments it would be a civil case. Think about it.....When they catch a bank robber, does the robber just have to "give all the money back" and the charges disappear?

If the guy is being charged with theft he will have his day in court. He may be found 'not guilty' if he is innocent. If he is found guilty he may be court ordered to make monetary restitution (and possibly so more jailtime along with it).

No way, give this woman $600 to "get the charges dropped". Is she going to offer a receipt to you when she "pays for the computer" - a computer that does not even exist, because he "sold it" to someone? Of course not.

If you want to help the woman get on her feet don't give them any handouts. They are probably already getting plenty of social services already. Would you be willing to offer to watch the kids while she works? I know its a lot to ask of someone. These kids sound like they would benefit from a role model. Help someone to help themselves - not offer handouts because of a shady story.

dilly_dally - you can bet I won't be giving the woman any cash, but I will buy them some groceries. I asked her to make me a small list of things those kids like to eat. And you're right... there would be no dropping the charges, but I wouldn't have paid the money anyway.

One thing I wanted to add..... yes, the woman now has a car but there are no tags on it. They were confiscated when he got the last ticket. I'm just guessing that since they aren't married, the car is in his name so she wouldn't be able to get it licensed.

I'm kind of bummed out about this whole thing. Really liked this guy from the first time I met him. During lunch break I called my son and was telling him about it. He has no compassion. This from someone that has been in our county jail twice in his life. Kind of hurt my feelings that he wasn't at least upset that mom is upset???

It looks like we both posted at 14:06 so I did not see your new info.

You say "The wife did not make up this story and the kid is not in jail, he's in prison. Apparently, if you get more than 30 days they send you off to the big house."

It looks like she DID make things up.

1.)He is in PRISON not city jail. (I never heard of sending someone to prison just because it is more than thirty days. That is not the way it is done in my area. Maybe things are different where you are.)

2.) She is not his legal wife - just a live-in girlfriend.

#.) Now the GF tells you he had a revoked license when the first story she told was that it was only suspended.

It sounds like she is making up stuff to make they guy look 'not so bad'.

The reason the deputy acted like he "did not want to talk about it" is because they are not allowed to give the details of an ongoing investigation. Even if the guy has been charged with something, they may be still compiling evidence and the guy may be facing additional charges. I'm surprised they said anything at all. They don't know if you are someone who will tip off any of the suspects as to how the police are proceeding. In my state juvenile records are sealed to the public and the police would not be allowed to discuss any of this.

I would not get involved with any of this. You may be bringing YOURSELF into the police investigation as a "person of interest". They may suspect that you are the person who bought the stolen computer and want to know if they "are on to you". There may be a whole lot more to this $600 stolen computer story. He may have been part of a theft ring. Who knows??? You say there is a Grand Jury?

If you really want to find out the facts get a copy of the guys driving record from the DMV. There are easy ways to do it. You say you once obtained employment for him? :hint: Does your state have a version of CCAP?

I just read your last post.

If she needs to get tags for that car he can "sell" it to her and it will be in her name. She may have to pay sales tax on the blue book value at the time of title transfer. Some states are picky about that. You can't sell a car for $1 to avoid paying sales tax.

I do not know why they did not do this right away when the tags were taken? Her story is still not making sense.

If you get your driving license taken away they do not do anything about the ownership of any vehicles. EXCEPT in cases of multiple convictions of DUI and a couple of others (hit and run homicide I think). In a case like that, upon arrest, the tags are removed and canceled and the title is stamped that the owner is not allowed to sell it without a court order from a judge. This is cheaper than the state physically impounding the car although this can be done too. This is how it is done in my area and most states have similar laws. Your state could be way different but I highly doubt it.

If this is the case then the guy CAN petition a judge to allow him to sell the car to his GF. A judge may grant it if it means she can use it for a job to stay off welfare.

But, why are you expecting your son to have any real compassion for this guy? It's not like he's really done any thing overly good. "Wanting to have a dog" doesn't really make him a good person. I'm just not seeing what you see in this guy. I know sometimes we get impressions of people... that they are decent or nice and caring...and maybe at least part of them are. But, this guy obviously has history and has repeatedly broken the law. This doesn't appear to be a one time accidental mistake.

I think it is nice that you are buying groceries, but at the same time be careful, it really is just money you are giving them. It allows her some extra cash to be able to do with what she wants (which could even involve drugs and such). There are programs and places they should be able to get necessities from if needed. I would offer to drive her places if need be, but you probably don't need to be buying their groceries for more than a time or two. You don't want to become an enabler of sorts.

If they seriously can't take care of their kids, maybe they should be taken away. Are you going to pay the kid's medical bills if they get sick, and buy their books for school? How long are you going to continue buying groceries? The needs could never end. This wasn't a fire or flood where people need community help; they put themselves in this situation. They need to dig themselves out so they realize how serious a crime life like this can be to a family.

I see red flags throughout this entire story. The woman should be calling her mother or sister to ask for a little help to feed the child. And since they are not married legally it might be a good idea for her to just pack up and go home to her family. She should be putting her child first, but it seems that she isn't thinking about the welfare of her child.

Since the officer said he knew the guy had problems with the law when he was younger it seems that the guy has a pattern that he hasn't been able to break. Stealing anything to get money is not the right thing do to. Getting out and getting an honest to goodness JOB is the right thing to do. Sure it's tough, but if he was any kind of real man he should be putting his child first, not so much is live-in honey, but his child should come first. But he CHOOSE to steal something that wasn't his instead. And since he's in prison, not just the county jail I bet he has a rap sheet of other things he's done that were illegal. He sounds like bad news. Sure he likes dogs and seems compassionate, but not compassionate enough to stand up and take care of his child. What's wrong with this picture???

Sorry...my advice...watch yourself, carefully.

~Susan

dilly_dally - what exactly is a CCAP? I was trying to find out what that was and ended up with an inmate search. This is what I found on him, minus his name:

Conviction Date: 08/06/2008 Total Term: 4 MONTHS
Projected Release Date: 12/23/2008
Primary Offense: DRIV LICENSE REVOKED (PRINCIPAL)
Admission Date: 08/29/2008
Special Characteristics: REGULAR
Custody Classification: MINIMUM 1
Next Custody Review Date: 03/01/2009
Control Status: REGULAR POPULATION
Next Control Review: UNKNOWN
Number of Infractions: 0

Does anyone have any idea what the "Next Custody Review Date 03/01/2009" means, since he is suppose to get out in December? It says the offence is drivers license revoked, but do people really go to prison for this?

I just don't want to have the wool pulled over my eyes but I do want to help even though I keep getting a bad feeling. In the past, we've been through troubles with my son but he never was sent to prison. He did short stints in county jail a couple of times.

Also, I'm not worried in the least about being suspected of having any involvement. I've lived my whole adult life in this county and know most of our law enforcement here on a first name basis. Not that means anything if you're guilty of something, but still, not something I'm worried about.

Hi Moonie 57,

A large number of good-appearing situations turn out to be less so, later - think of the religious/business situation involving the Moonies, a number of years ago (that's still around, as far as I know).

I have a lot of respect for Christ and the way that he did things.

When someone came to him needing compassion - they got it.

But when the self-righteous (usually religious bunch) tried to out-maneuver him, the sharpness of his mind didn't let them out-fox him.

He had a soft heart ... and a sharp mind.

Sometimes people who have a kind heart are inclined to have a mind that's a bit soft - not as sharp as one might hope for them.

Sometimes people who let their kind heart over-ride the skills of their mind ... get burned. Even folks who have a fairly sharp mind get into such predicaments.

After a few such experiences, quite a few of them let their hearts get hard, as well ... which is unforunate, in my view.

I wondered about the car being available, as well. And I've known a couple of folks (son included) who can't get plates reinstated for a vehicle until he pays accumulated fines ... which become substantial fast when one gets caught while driving unlicensed. Which sometimes get suspended through court action when one was caught driving uninsured, in a number of jurisdictions.

Could the husband sell the car to the wife, and she get out from under accumulated restrictions involving his ownership?

Here, she'd have to have it checked for safety, plus emission controls, plus a vehicle's registration history fee, and pay a tax on the price that'd be general for vehicles of that vintage ... and she'd need to know whether, having gone through all of that hassle, they'd let her insure and licence it, even then.

Good wishes for preserving your kind heart ... and your sharp mind ... both.

ole joyful

P.S. You say that you live in a small town, and that everyone knows everyone.

And that your son has a hard heart, here.

Does your son know the guy involved? Or is he just giving his opinion based on general principles?

o j

o j - at first I thought you were saying that my mind is as soft as my heart. Or maybe you were. :)

Honestly, I think tomorrow I may have a different opinion on all this. Yes, I am soft-hearted and perhaps not thinking clearly because it seems like I want to defend this kid and anyone else I have talked to sees it in a different light.

About the car... even if she could get it into her name, she can't afford insurance or the payments.

And no, babysitting so that she can work is not something I would be willing to do. I'm so happy my Gkids are getting older because they're easier than tiny ones. Would pull my hair out keeping someone elses little ones. :)

It's not that I don't think he should be punished for whatever he is guilty of, but I know this kid has had a hard life. Why should my son feel some compassion? Because he has had his share of troubles (drugs) and knows how your life can spiral out of control. Don't know where my own son would be today without the support of his family. This other kid doesn't have the support of family like my son does. He has a grandfather and I know of an aunt. His mother lives someplace else... can't remember where... but I don't think he has much contact with her and hasn't for a long time. This kid and his wife have lived together since they were 17... and for the record... he does have a job. The same job since I've known him, plus has worked part-time jobs on the side.

The reason I like him so much is not only have we done things for him, but he has done alot of things for me. When I was so fired up to get my pond dug, my son spent a couple of hours on it but this kid worked with me all day, on a saturday, until we got it done. He and my son spent 2 days putting together a shed at my son's place. He also fixed my porch steps when one of them broke and sent me face first onto the ground.

Yes, I have maternal feelings towards him because I think he has a sucky life. He came into adulthood much too early and suffers for it. His girlfriend, too. As far as her family goes, I don't know anything about them.

My gut feeling about this is to disengage yourself from this whole mess. He sounds like my one daughter's ex-husband - now in prison as a habitual criminal. He too was helpful, sweet, and very manipulative. He too had had a very sucky childhood and I felt protective and maternal toward him, and he probably knew that. He is the father of some of my grandkids, and he is poison to them and to my daughter. Run while you can!

Moonie...I really don't know how involved I'd get...other than helping her make the right contacts to get some help for herself and the children.

But many replies are saying things about him like they know him....

I think that is sad...Not one of them really know what he is about or what's going on...all of what they say is just a guess.

You sound like you have a big heart. Many times big hearted people do get hurt or taken...

So if it makes you feel good to take some food over for them and maybe help her get in touch with someone who can help...(food stamps, food pantry , things like that)

Then be strong so you aren't taken advantage of...I wouldn't give her cash...but maybe food.

patti

What I think? The guy is serving mandatory time for getting caught driving without a license. Suspended or revoked whatever.

He has not been officially charged with any other crime.

You have had a good ongoing friendship with him. He has given back to you.

He has not asked you for anything but is grateful that you took his dog and have it given it a good home.

My advice is to be there for him as a friend when he gets out. No money,no favors, it's about friendship and reciprocation of that friendship.

Stay away from the "wife". Completely. She'll manage. So will the kids. She sounds like poison and not only will she take from you ,she will destroy the relationship you have built with this young man.

He needs a friend in his life. You can be his friend but not if you start giving money out or questioning his motives because of hearsay.

Stop listening to seeking out gossip. Yes even from the sheriff's. They are people to. The only thing that counts is the actual record on paper. There's not much there.

I was kinda wondering about the girlfriend as well... I mean, I know it was really hard for me to find a job when I first left my ex-husband (and I had a car AND lived in town). She probably doesn't know where and the heck to start.. I mean, whose going to watch the little one while she fills out apps and goes on interviews? Let alone, how the heck is she going to get there, ya know. Plus, it sounds like to me sooo far that he is a hard worker and he knew he needed to support his family no matter what, and that's why he was driving (to work is what you said, right?)

I don't know... and I certainly cannot tell you what to do, but just putting my thoughts out there I guess. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Also.. prayers are free. :o)

Moonie--how old is he? You refer to him as a kid, but for some reason I think he's a little older.

patti - the guy must be 22 now. He's younger than both my sons so he's still a kid to me. :)

pattico and wildchild, and some of you - thank you. I realize that I must be careful and not get taken in with a bunch of BS, but I feel like wildchild is right on the mark. Our friendship has been give and take since the beginning and I'll continue to be a friend during this time that he would need me the most. And not with cash.

nicki_in_niles also has a point about the gf being stuck in a hard place. Admittedly I have never really given the girl the benefit of the doubt. During the deal over the dog, I got my mind set that I didn't like her. And often the guy would say things about going home to cook or that he had to vacuum, and I'd wonder why is -he- cooking and cleaning when she was home all day. Well, I don't know that he cooked or cleaned or if he did the reason behind it. I just assumed that she's a lazy butt. Ok, maybe I'm being more generous towards her now because of feeling bad about the situation or maybe it's because in the last few days I've gotten more of a chance to talk to her. I'll reserve my thoughts on that for later.

However it goes, I'll not be giving her any cash. If she needs groceries before she gets more foodstamps, I will take her to the store. If she could get a job, and it worked with my schedule, I'd take her back and forth to work.

Anyway, I told her to tell the guy to call me if he wanted and if he could. She is suppose to call me after she talks to him tonight.

pattico and wildchild, and some of you - thank you.

OOPS! That came out wrong. What I meant was thank you to those who have seen another possible side to this friendship.

Moonie, There is always three sides to every story... I'd go see him if he can have visitors. Then maybe you can answer some of the concerns you might have.
I'm not sure where you live but there must be some programs for the family and for the GF to get some employment counciling. One of the local churchs or civic groups maybe able to help with groceries. Some of them give food baskets and small gifts at the holidays.
You might consider becoming the familys advocate. Being in the courtroom during hearings someone he could count on. It sounds like they both could use some compassion and guidance from someone who cares. You might be able to help him and help save a family.
Just some things to also think about.