I would tell him he is a power monger, a control freak and a materialistic self absorbed mental case :)

No really, This is a hard situation. Does your son even want the stupid car or at this point would he be just as happy with a Neon that is actually his? If he's a lovin' the Lexus he may have to deal with the ridiculousness. Otherwise, he could get dad or you to co-sign for a cheaper vehicle he can help make payments on. He could have a little more say if he's the one flipping part of the bill.

You wont be able to change his mind. All you can do is help DS live with it. My X is the same way. Which is why my CS agreement is extremely specific.

I assume that X trusts that when DS has car at your house he isnt out all night and car is safe.

I know it is pain to drive the child 4 blocks to pick up his car, but I see no other choices. Has DS been speaking to his dad re college? Maybe DS can mention extra sleep would help with grades and activiites? More importantly, is dad on baord with paying for college??

I might buy DS an older, not so pretty car and tell ex, well he is driving this when he's here then. (I'm sure it's not the solution your son wants, but if dad is so worried about what DS drives, then maybe he'll relent)

BTW, you described my SD's mom except the successful part. (she also isn't well dressed but she can pull off the 'soccer mom of the year' look fairly well. Not many people see beyond her facade.

I agree with Ima. Buy DS an ugly old car and tell X that DS will be driving that car when he's there. Then X will get all peeved because his son can't be driving something like that. Then, after he changes his mind, you can sell or donate the car. The worse that can happen is he doesn't change his mind and you have an extra car for DS to drive on his times at your place. Maybe you have a relative who would be willling to "donate" to the cause by letting you maybe rent the car from them or let you borrow it until X gets the point.

"You wont be able to change his mind. All you can do is help DS live with it."

An old boyfriend once told me that it was his policy to never argue with a drunk.

He said you can't tell 'em anything, & if you keep talking, they just get angrier.

In my own life, I've expanded the perimeters to include drunks, crazy people, people with agendas or vendettas, & indeed anybody who refuses to be reasonable.

doesn't matter *why* they won't be reasonable, the longer I talk, the angrier they get & the more I get tangled up in their nonsense.

Narcissists are bad news for everyone within their orbit;
they cause untold damage & misery to their families, especially to their children, who arrive in the world not equipped with the experience to realize that it isn't their fault Dad treats them badly.

Give your son the knowledge he needs to protect his own sense of self-worth & to realize that his father's behavior has *nothing* to do with him, & either buy him an old car (not involving expensive payments & physical damage insurance, old cars can be stress-free, especially for new drivers) or pick him up & *never make a comment about it & never respond to any comment ex makes about it & keep a cheerful friendly smile on your face*.

...& I'd strongly advise not to use an old car *or anything else* to try to embarrass your ex;

narcissists don't relent in the face of embarrassment, they punish the people who embarrass them.

I think you should get an old junky car for DS to drive over to EX's house to pick up his car. That way, the old car would be sitting out in front of EX's house while DS is driving the Lexus. If he is worried about keeping up with the Jones' he will hate having that car sitting in front of his house all day!

You might suggest to DS that he leave books at home, walk to car, drive back to your house, and pick up his load. 4 blocks isnt much to drive.

I dont like my DD taking her laptop out of house (loss/theft issue), problem with taking it to dads is he travels so much, if she forgets it, she might not get it back the next day (or week!!)

Maybe X doesnt want your neighbors thinking you have a new car -- even though it doesnt sound like you care.

I would try to work with DS on car. My real concern would be college. Hopefully X wants "his son" to attend prestigous school.

I agree with raek... it sounds like the main thing ex is worried about is ---heavens forbid--- it looking to The Joneses like YOUR HOUSEHOLD is 'prestigious' enough (or whatever) to have this additional Lexus in the mix. His ego can't abide it. And he's willing to make his own son have to do this ridiculous dance and jump through these wierd hoops with divided loyalties, just so said pathetic ego can be protected.

Such a great response - Thanks!

As to buying DS an ugly old car -- This is just as nuts, but my mom offered to give DS her car when she stopped driving (an almost new Toyota Corolla), but DS said "no thanks" and that he'd prefer the Lexus. Well, I get it -- That Lexus is a sexy car even if it is old -- but how stupid can a 17 year old boy be?! Don't answer that -- I've already got my proof! ;-) Anyway, I talked to DS about it, gave him the chance to change his mind, and told him flat-out that I would NOT be buying him a car -- ever and that this was his only chance. But peer pressure is a terrible thing when you're 17 and have a father that reinforces those kinds of values...

"I would tell him he is a power monger, a control freak and a materialistic self absorbed mental case :)"

Loved your suggestion Doodle! But we've actually reached a kind of 'truce' and I try to keep the peace without playing doormat, (part of the reason I'm grateful for a good StepMom) and calling him a 'mental case' might break truce. The 'power-mongering self-absorbed and materialistic' parts would be fine, though, because they wouldn't offend him. ;-) Yes, seriously! The only phrase that ever really did get him to change was "nothing but a bully!" but I don't think I could make a case for that one here...

KKNY - Ex knows DS isn't staying out all night on my watch. In fact, I'm the parent with the curfew, not him, and I do enforce it. (DS stretched it by an hour one night, and had an hour's 'hard labor' the next morning, so I'm confident it won't happen again.) As to college, I believe it was written into our divorce that Ex would pay for half, and Ex has said he would pay for half -- but I can't find it in writing and will admit to some knuckle-chewing on that score. I know Ex will pay for Ivy League, but I don't know if DS will be able to get in (even as a double-legacy) or if he does get in, stay afloat; so I would prefer him to attend a school that is a better fit for him. Trouble is, it's almost the same price, but with less prestige, and Ex will definitely have a problem with that!

"Narcissists don't relent in the face of embarrassment, they punish the people who embarrass them. "

Well said Sylvia! And I can personally vouch for the accuracy of that statement. Wanna see my scars?

If Ex has given son gifts with strings attached in the past is your son used to this? How has he handled it with other such gifts? Since he has a history of such gifts I think there is more than not wanting your house to look prestigious. (who would have seen a laptop?)
Has your DS had any conversation about the car rules with his dad? Or has stepmom had any discussion with her DH? Is he as stubborn with them?

Sweeby, I would be spending the weekend going through divorce file. If you cant find all papers, call attorney to get copy or go through their files. I would research this thoroughly. I actually have the word doc version of mine, which are much easier to search.

And yes, my X would much rather DD attend my alma matter, but she will to to school which is best choice for her, not me.

ALL of Daddy's gifts have had strings attached. Whenever DS got a Christmas or birthday present he loved, he was never allowed to bring it to our house to play with here. And I do mean never, so there hasn't been an instance where an item got lost, broken or wasn't returned. I've never had a similar policy and sacrificed many items to 'the other house' -- but then, they're DS's items to use and enjoy (or break and lose) as HE sees fit. But yes, DS is certainly used to it. And he knows it's controlling and illogical -- but also that his father simply IS that way and won't change.

And yes, DS and SM have talked to him about it as well, and he is that stubborn with everyone. (Part of why he has succeeded in sales -- He simply mows down objections.)

Now if DS were spending the night at a friend's house, I'm confident the 'stupid car rule' would not apply -- so it does have something to do with me and my house.

And KK - You're right about the college thing -- simply too important to let slide. And when it comes to which college, fortunately StepMom and I are on the same page about what constitutes a 'best fit' for DS. But the sacrifice of prestige for fit is a hard one to talk Dad into.

Oh Sweeby, I can't imagine what fun it must have been to be married to this man.

Can you point blank ask him the reason he doesn't want his car in front of your house? Is he afraid people will get the wrong idea - that he was driving? Does he fear they will think it is yours and you have a better car then he does? Maybe people will think YOU bought it for him? All sound possible from what we've heard of him . . . and totally ridiculous.

Could you just get your DS a bike he could ride between houses and help cart all his stuff around on?

It was fun Martha! That man messed with my head for 10 long years... While the cost was high, there were some advantages.

Of course, I have point-blank asked him why (so has SM) and neither one us got anything resembling a reason. Your idea about maybe people thinking I bought it for DS may be close. OR, it may be part os a "ransom/bribe scheme" to keep DS living at Dad's. (Dad's house came with much better 'perks' than mine, including the current top gaming system and a 4-room bachelor-pad apartment instead of a 'regular' bedroom with shared bath.)

A bike is an interesting idea -- though DS hates to ride bikes. Maybe a scooter?

Sweeby,

I think your DS made a decision when accepting the Lexus from Dad over the Toyota from Grandma that he would deal with whatever strings his Dad layed out for him. I think your son is old enough to deal with the consequences of that decision. I know as his Mom, you feel bad for him for having to lug his school items back and forth, but like one of the other posters suggested, he could leave those items at your house and walk to Dads without them and then turn around and come back to your house to pick up the items he left behind. It's silly and a pain, but in my opinion, it is what he agreed to by accepting the deal with his Dad and turning down the "no-strings-attached" car from his Grandmother.

Hmmm - an interesting spin I have to think about. It's a point that he turned down the not-so-cool car for the cool one, and this is the price he pays for that (understandable) vanity. It may be ridiculous, but . . . welcome to the real world. Choices have prices.

Guess I'd let DS work it out with his dad. He didn't want grandmas car and I'm sure he knows by now that extravagant gifts from Dad come with strings. He'll either get tired of lugging the books and find an alternative or continue to do it. Think this is one of those lesson's young adults need to learn on their own...He's young, got a strong back..

My son learned the same about his BD & the expensive gifts and lavish lifestyle on his own the hard way too. I didn't send him money for a plane ticket home but let him take the greyhound so he could have a "memorable" trip. Lesson learned.

It's tough to just let it unfold though.

Excellent point Raek - and right on the money. DS DID know about the stupid car rule when he turned down Grandma's offer, and he made his choice. It's only fair that he should have to live with the consequences.

On a slightly different note, DS and I had an absolutely fabulous talk on Friday night. He was in an unusually open and honest mood (he's normally very private and guarded), and we talked about social life, drinking and recreational drug use at his school, DS's "Catholic guilt" nature (his words - we're not even Catholic), DS's emerging plans for his future and his father's NPD. DS actually did most of the talking, which was remarkable, and I did most of the listening. It's amazing how much goes on inside their heads when they give you a peek ;-), and I only wish I had more time -- now that he's turning into such a nice person.

Yeah......Sweeby, Raek really is right on the money. She brought up a point that none of us really ever thought of. I'm sorry that DS chose the "prison" over the "park", but it really was his choice to make. My heart would break for my DS if he was in that situation, but, as I tell my DS all the time, think through your decisions because they may not turn out like you think. Is the extra effort worth the part-time use of the car? Probably not, but he probably didn't think about that when he was offered the Lexus. Heck, I made the same stupid decision once. I took a job that was a 90 mile round trip every day for only $.50 more! I guess I thought it was worth it at first. Little did I know..........

On a side note, I would've crawled on my hands and knees and kissed the feet of anyone who offered me a car at 17. ESPECIALLY a free one! I didn't get a car until I was 18 or 19. My mom, my X (boyfriend at the time) and my X's mom drove me everywhere I needed to go, even after I was working full-time.

I didn't get a car until I was 24! A college graduate, married and already working full time for 6 months. And of course, it wasn't a gift.

And I had to walk to school in the snow. Uphill. Both ways! ;-)

hahah I like about walking to school in a snow uphill. Both ways. hahahah

Please forgive me for my ignorance....what does "DS" stand for? I'm so new to this stuff that I'm struggling with all of the abbreviations. LOL If someone wouldn't mind listing a few I would be forever grateful.....Thanks.

DS -dear son,
DD-dear daughter
SS-stepson
SD-stepdaughter
DH-dear husband
SM-stepmom
BM-biomom

and so forth.

It's not always "Dear" ;-)

I know what you mean Sweeby, my DS has matured so much the past 2 years, it's odd sometimes talking to him Adult to Adult about well adult issues, life, plans etc...I really like and admire the kind and thoughtful young man he's become.

It's just so great to see them become their people and to know you had a part in raising them is such a honor..

Your young man sounds like a sweet kid. It's hard for them to understand that sometimes gifts even from parents aren't without strings. I never said anything negative about DS's BD with him, but for his BD it is all about the money and putting on airs but he cannot relate to any of his children on a personal level. It's hard to not shield kids from this, but they figure it out. Bet your son thinks twice next time, mine did and I never said a word about it, just listened.

I agree was raek- a 17 year old is old enough to make decisions about what he wants and is willing to do to have it. This is an excellent opportunity for him to learn who his father is and how he will engage/disengage with dad as an adult. This is between the two of them and I would stay out of it. You'll only end up being the bad guy...you've given him options,made your opinion known, now it is time to step back and see what happens.. it may play out very differently than you expect.

Like many other posts I earned the money for my first car and a lot in doing so..Your son will also be learning some life lessons... starting with...Nothing in life is free!