Let's not get too offended here Christopher. The OP is talking about a neighbor with 8 cars in his driveway because he has a car lot and is using his driveway for storage. Much like our neighborhood guy up the street. I think few people care if a neighbor parks the cars they are using in a driveway. It's the ones who store multiple cars from their car lot or the ones who keep disabled junk cars in front that bother most people.

Exactly. Some people keep their outrage-O-meter dialed all the way up to 11. We're not talking about the average person.

Sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across well online. Christopher is known for his sense of humor.

Ah, I get it, Christopher. You are *that* guy with a dozen cars in your drive, aren't you? Otherwise your outrage is meaningless.

Listen, there are several people attempting to sell their homes in this neighborhood, and their values are directly affected by those neighbors who have way too many vehicles, or leave trash (or a year-round dumpster on wheels, in the case of one neighbor) piled around their homes. It doesn't matter if your own home looks like the cover of a magazine if next door or across the street you have the junk piles reminiscent of low rent neighborhoods. I don't think you get that.

Your mocking suggestion to pass legislation misses the point. The point is that people should have enough self-respect and enough respect for their neighbors to be internally motivated not to junk up their yards and driveways that are visible to all.

Acadiafun, I'm wondering if we live on the same street! ;) I'm really not ok with the dog running loose either. It is particularly annoying that your junk neighbor bought a foreclosed house and left it looking ...foreclosed. That's unfortunate.

What if your vehicles don't fit into your garage???

Reminds me of a neighbour a few moves ago who traded his car for a vintage 18-wheeler, tractor only. His main use of it was ferrying his elementary aged kids back and forth from school and for shopping chores nearby. Didn't bother me at all.

(Now, short people, wiener dogs and Justin Bieber--another matter entirely.)

Midcenturymodern, evidently you never quite understood the idea of sarcasm and humor. I was having a little fun. And no, I will not stop.

But I do draw the line with people who actually believe that just because someone has a garage they must be forced to put their car in it. That's over the top to me.

Yes, there indeed people who are extreme, as in the case of a family with 8 cars. But again, those are extreme.

Everybody has the neighbor from hell. And for some, that neighbor is the community yard NAZI who thinks they have the right to tell everybody else how to live. They're the biggest PIA around! That's one of the reasons I live where I do. I have one car, a cargo trailer I use for my crafts business, 3 to 4 cords of firewood next to my driveway, and a small sugarbush for maple syrup. And although our neighbors are not on top of each other, we all have each others' phone number on the wall next to the phone in case of an emergency and we need a phone tree.

I would rather live in a place like this than in a neighborhood where each McMansion is 30 feet from the next door neighbor and people sit and stew about their neighbor's cars because they don't even know that neighbor's name.

That's the sad part of this whole thread.

I really would hate to hear those start up at 5 in the morning.

Actually, straight pipes on semis are frowned upon by real truckers today.

Well, Christopher, your sarcasm didn't read that way, and I'm quite conversant with forum humor and interaction. Perhaps it isn't my skills in interpretation that are the issue, particularly if you have been misunderstood before. My apologies if I misunderstood you, especially if I am the only one ever.

No one can force them and NO ONE has spoken to them about it, so get that straight up front. As a matter of respect for the neighbors, one should not junk up the house with loads of vehicles outside, especially when nearby neighbors are attempting to sell their houses. It's just a matter of decency and respect, and a no-brainer for most people.

You are creating a false dichotomy there. It isn't a given that anyone who objects to the junking up of houses necessarily has a bad relationship with the neighbors or is the "Nazi" to whom you mockingly refer. Most never say anything, because you never know how some crazy neighbor can make everyone's life hell if he is asked not to do something that any normal person would already know not to do.

Garages are intended for vehicles. Use them for their proper purpose, not for your overflow of junk.

Worthy, zoning prohibits parking commercial vehicles in residential areas in many places.

"...Most never say anything, because you never know how some crazy neighbor can make everyone's life hell if he is asked not to do something that any normal person would already know not to do..."

That's because nobody even knows their neighbors anymore! How nice would it have been that when they moved in the neighbors actually welcomed them into the neighborhood. Then you could go over and say "Hey Larry, I want to put my house up for sale, and could you help me by making your place presentable?"

"...Garages are intended for vehicles. Use them for their proper purpose, not for your overflow of junk..."

To me, that statement falls under "get a life".

Ah, for the good old days when life was simpler, kids enjoyed playing with their pals out the front door and cars were not despoiling the view.

Right, Worthy, because the only possible alternative to keeping your yard full of junk is ....the Great Depression. Sure...

Sorry your yard is a junkyard, Christopher H. It must be, or you wouldn't be so vehemently defending the practice.

I am concerned with this too. We do not have a HOA and there is one house diagonal from us that has about 6 cars in their driveway. they also have some kind of home business according to DH so during the day there might be some along the street too. it just is not the norm for the neighborhood and looks "off" I would hope a buyer would not be put off, but you never know. I know I dont love it.

Who knows what is worse. we also have two sets of neighbors that refuse to leash their dogs and they poop on our lawn all the time. I don't know how they can not be concerned with them being hit by cars either.

It makes me nuts.

If you want a neighborhood where there are rules about how you keep your yard and what and how you park, live in a neighborhood with a HOA. That's what they're for. Other neighborhoods do not give you the option of forcing people to stop living ways that annoy you, unless your health or safety is genuinely at risk. That's life. At least there's kvetching on Houzz.

"...Sorry your yard is a junkyard, Christopher H. It must be, or you wouldn't be so vehemently defending the practice..."

No, my yard isn't a junkyard, but I'm sure according to your standards it might be. Yeah, wood stacked next to the unpaved driveway would be an eyesore to you. But I live on a classic Vermont unpaved road too, so it fits in with the community.

Is my lawn manicured? No. I mow it as it needs it. But I don't touch the other 31 1/2 acres.

Am I defending sloppy people? Maybe. You see, I love this thing called LIBERTY. I fought for my country and I'll still defend people's right to live the way they want as long as they don't violate the laws.

Now there are communities in this once great country where they have HOAs with covenants so ridiculous you can't even have a pickup truck and all cars must be garaged at all times. You can't own a dog over 25 pounds. They have HOA patrols to make sure everybody obeys! Maybe you should live in one of those places.

I agree a garage is for parking your cars. It saves a lot of maintenance costs if you do so. Problem is usually people have too much junk, so no room for the cars. Our town has a lot of rentals, and it's common to see people park their dying trucks on their dying lawns. My pet peeve. Recently, a dude I know here in town had his car stolen. He parks it on the street. Serves him right. Park it in the garage. You'd still have your car!!

I have one of those neighbors. 3 cars, including a huge unsightly truck, and all parked in front of his and my house all the time. Finally, neighbor is moving. He's been cleaning out the house for two months. Last week a dumpster appeared in front of his house, along with the 3 vehicles. And he began to empty the garage of junk, filling up the dumpster in no time. A TON of junk came out of that small garage, so I now understand why he never used it.

On another note I never understand why people finally get around to fixing up houses, doing necessary maintenance as well as cosmetic work, when they go to sell it. Why wouldn't you want to live in a nice place all along and do it sequentially?

Cassandra- I fully agree. I'm pushing DH to get our roof and one bath done so we dan enjoy it properly.

That said, it can make sense to do improvements to get more money at sale.

Oh Happy Day! My neighbor across the street has just graduated DOWN to 3. His grown son, girlfriend, and baby moved out, taking 2 vehicles with them. Yippee!!!

For us, time gets away from us AND, if we were to stay, we would have done bigger changes, so we were putting off for that. not sure if that makes sense. :) That is for the cosmetic work, not the maintenance!

As long as the neighbors are not in violation of the law, yes I DID fight for their liberty! And if I want to wave the flag, I will do it! We were spat on when we came home. We were called "baby killers". Today there's a downed B52 from my old squadron that's a victory prize resting in Hanoi.

So if you or anybody else don't like my flag waving... I really do not care!

Omg...

Thanks for your service Christopher!

This has been a totally fascinating thread! I was on the edge of my seat by the end.

I agree with the spirit if not the letter of the OP. Until you've truly experienced that sinking feeling of "crap, this neighbor will ruin our street" it's hard to understand. It could be because of too many cars. It could be loud music thumping down the street every night. It could be a cat that runs loose. The material object is usually not as important as the atmosphere of hostility. Most of the time, if a neighbor is immature enough to be a pest, they don't want to be your friend.

Our garage is mostly empty, but we still don't use it except for snowstorms. Simply too much hassle to open the door, maneuver inside, close the door, then do it all over when you leave. We keep our lawn looking good, and we have nice clean cars that stay on our property. Everything doesn't have to be a binary choice.

I'll trade twenty junk cars for my one neighbor across the alley who uses multiple air freshener products 24/7 - this malignant odor escapes from her vents/windows and hangs like a toxic cloud over a 2 or 3 house radius most days. Just when you think you've heard it all - its truly amazing all the ways people find to annoy other people. Since these products work not by "neutralizing" odors but by numbing people's sense of smell, she does not have a clue how strong it is. I wonder if the steady intake of phthalates, VOC's, di-chlorobenzene, formaldehyde, etc. hasnt fried a few brain cells as well.

that is far worse for your day to day living current resident. I can not even imagine.

Never understood the people who fill their garage with crap. I once had a buddy whose garage was so full of equipment for the 800 hobbies he tried exactly once that he actually asked me if he could store some of his crap in my garage. I started laughing. He was also the type to complain about having to shovel out his car in the winter. Our HOA is not especially onerous but one thing I am glad of is that they have strong rules against any long-term (>1 week) parking of boats/RVs/ATVs in driveways and residents are not allowed to park on the street over night without a special permit. This prevents 99% of the vehicle eyesore issues. At our last house our neighbor across the street had a giant ugly rotting power boat that never left his driveway once in 6 years. I'm dead convinced that eyesore cost us thousands on the sale of our house.

For as much as people complain about HOA's, I love them. I can't help it. We have sold a few houses over the years, and the last two were in HOA's. They sold fast! Before we bought this house, we read over the covenants. They are not unreasonable. It's the people who sign the covenants at closing, then start creeping further and further from the rules that make me wonder. We have a neighbor that for a whole year kept their trash cans in their garage. Their garage was one of those you couldn't walk through at all it was packed. One day they planted a bush on the very edge to the front of their house. Then planted a small tree in front of the bush. Then behind that they started storing their trash can and bright yellow & green recycle can. LOL! You could still see their garbage from the street. The bush and tree were doing nothing to cover them. I guess someone complained because they are now gone. They have a fence, and their house is beautiful. I just don't understand why they would want to muck it up. The last HOA we had cars towed from the street, but we knew they would do that because of the covenants. Seeing people fighting early in the morning with the tow truck driver was crazy. You signed the papers!

I love the stories. I had a relative store a bunch of junk in my garage. "We will come back later with the truck..."

7 years go by...

"You want any of that stuff you have in our garage?"

"What's stuff?"

"Oh, ok. I'm taking it all to Goodwill."

"That stuff! Oh well we still want that."

They never came for it and it all went to goodwill when we moved. It took up a whole shelving unit and about another 20 Sq ft of floor space for 12 years. Never again!

this malignant odor escapes from her vents/windows and hangs like a toxic cloud over a 2 or 3 house radius most days.

Might still beat living in the vicinity of legal Canadian pot farms in residential areas! My daughter lives in an expensive university student dominated apartment building in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario. Reeks to high heaven of Mary Jane.

***

Good insight on this thread into the informer personality. In Cuba, they'd be joining Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, ferreting out counter revolutionaries. The closest they can get in the USA is their local HOA or by-law enforcement officer.

Now off to buy another driveway car or three!

So it gets better...

Last evening I am in my garage loading a few things into the car. Said "car lot" owner is out near the road shrieking into his cell phone in a very loud voice, effin' this and effin' that, blankety blank blank effin' blank. Every neighbor within 5 houses could have heard this low class diatribe. I just don't need this nonsense and wonder where the normal people are today.

I'm thinking I don't want to live around this guy at all. Maybe I will sell the house.

I personally think if you are spending $25,000+ on a car -- I want it protected in a garage. It stays cleaner and safer in the garage.

2nd best is the driveway. Not a fan of cars parked up and down the street, especially big ones.

My coworker parks two junky "classic cars" in her driveway, junk is in the garage, and then parks two Explorers and a pick-up truck in the street. And she wonders why here neighbors are mad....

I wouldn't assume that people have only two drivers per household. There could be teenagers or young adults living at the house. At one point, my husband acquired a classic car, which necessitated parking his other car—and for a time, my car, too—in the driveway. Once my kids start driving, I'm sure there will be extra cars parked on the street. And since they are planning on attending one of our local colleges, I'm sure that parking situation will remain that way for many years to come.

I have neighbors who fill their garages with motorcycles and other toys while they park their BMWs and Volvos in the driveway. Our HOA only restricts parking RVs and commercial vehicles on streets and driveways, and they're not nazis about enforcement. If relatives come visit in their RV and park for a few days, nobody is going to trouble the homeowner.

It would never have occurred to me that some people could be so bothered by cars parked on a residential street. First world problems.

"I also served my country, but not to 'defend people's right' to act so as to adversely effect the property values or chosen lifestyle of myself or others."

Okay, if we're having a veterans spitting contest, my husband is also a veteran, having served in the USAF. That said, I'm hard-pressed to figure out how parked cars can adversely impact anyone's chosen lifestyle. If you choose to live a lifestyle where cars will never be parked on streets or driveways, then go find a community where that is enforceable by zoning regulation or by HOA covenant. But who decided you have a right to impact the chosen lifestyle of others? If your neighbors have multiple vehicles parked on the streets and/or in their driveway, so long as they're not violating zoning or covenant restrictions, it's none of your business. It's none of your business. If you feel your property values have been unfairly impacted by your neighbor's actions, you are free to take them to court.

Having an attitude of grace and tolerance toward one's neighbors is vital to keeping a spirit of civility, but I don't think that objective can be accomplished if homeowners want to assert a non-existent right to tell their neighbors how many cars they should own, or what they can/should do with that private property. You're certainly free to complain and kvetch and moan, but that just makes you the bad neighbor, not them.

BB Galore,

While I'm sure it was not your intent, you quoted my post out of context.

I actually said:

" I fought for my country and I'll
still defend people's right to live the way they want as long as they
don't violate the laws. "

Wow.

I also served my country, but not to "defend people's right" to act
so as to adversely effect the property values or chosen lifestyle of
myself or others.

No one I served with felt the need to post with a red, white,
and blue banner to somehow make their view seem more important than the
rest of our views.

The other guy replied in kind of a snarky manner and I did not reply!

I'm sorry you find that is "having a veterans spitting contest" and that caused you to invoke the fact that your sharing a bed with your husband while he served in the USAF suggested your need to butt in on a dead "issue."

I have posted a few times in this thread and those posts were well received.

Your statement, " If your neighbors have multiple vehicles parked on the streets and/or
in their driveway, so long as they're not violating zoning or covenant
restrictions, it's none of your business." is absolute nonsense.

As an example. I owned a home in Tewksbury, MA, many years ago. While living there, a new family moved into the home across the cul-de-sac from mine. Really nice family. Joe was a over-the-road truck driver.

If he had a load headed out on Monday, as was common, he would on Friday park his Tractor and trailer in the cul-de-sac so as to get on the road early Monday. He also had a old pick-up parked in his front lawn the entire winter.

Again, nice guy, nice family, I never thought to say a word... "none of my business." My home showed well after the pickup was removed as long as it was not the weekend.

Maybe "none of my business" in your moronic mind, but it cost me a lot of money and aggravation as every realtor reported the real concern would-be buyers had re the trucks!

We did remain friends, however.

I would point out that to my knowledge, Joe did not violate any zoning or covenant restrictions

Maybe you and I could swap tales over a beer at the VFW some time?

I hate HOAs, but I have ended up living in one, very much against my will. That is where the house that my son helped me to buy is located, and he was adamant that the HOA would not affect me at all.

When we finally got the actual HOA bylaws, it turns out it affects me A LOT. It is overly vague in many places, and overly restrictive overall.

For one thing, there is a limit of 3 pets - including birds. So I'm already over that limit as I have 2 parakeets and 2 finches. Tell me how having an extra 2 oz of birdflesh in a cage in my home affects anyone else.

Also my legal use of medical marijuana - which I vape so there is little or no odor - is not allowed by the HOA. Guess what I WON'T be giving up?

My electric assist bicycle is not allowed by the HOA. They count it as a "motorcycle" or "scooter", both of which perfectly street legal types of vehicles the HOA has banned.

After our offer was accepted, we found out from the current resident that the HOA has gone after people who have vegetable gardens for having "weeds" - the weeds being their tomato plants, not actual weeds. This is NOT even remotely an "upscale" neighborhood, either.

There is a clause in there that says you cannot make any changes to the "landscaping" without prior written permission from the HOA. So I can't so much as plant a flower without express written permission, which takes 30 to 90 days to even get.

They cited someone in the neighborhood for peeling paint on the trim on his garage and levied fines on him - despite the fact that he had applied for and was still awaiting that written permission required to do any work on the exterior of the house. Apparently his request for permission to fix the problem was a signal to them that he was in violation of the HOA rule to keep the exterior of the house in good repair. So when he asked for permission to MAKE the repairs, as required by the HOA rules, that signaled them that they could start fining him while sitting on his request.

I need their permission to paint the house. I need their permission to put up a TV antenna - and it can't be more than 18". They don't allow satellite dishes at all. They noted on our paperwork that the bushes need trimming - there is only one bush in the yard and its a low-growing juniper, actually a ground cover and not a bush at all. I've never seen that type of plant trimmed. Ever. And it is, in fact, abundantly clear that this particular "bush" has NEVER been trimmed as I have pictures of the property from 5 years ago. If they're going to insist that that thing be trimmed I'll just rip it out - though apparently I'll have to get their permission first.

Its bizzare. But at least I know its temporary, and I now have plenty of ammunition to make sure the next, more permanent residence, is totally HOA free. My son pooh-poohed my concerns about the HOA and wouldn't make any effort whatsoever to get the HOA bylaws BEFORE he made the offer. That was a mistake, which even he now admits.

We haven't even closed on the place and I'm already looking forward to moving out of it and away from HOAs and nosy Parkers who think they have the right to tell me what I can do with my own property. Every city in which I have ever lived has sufficient regulations on the books for keeping things orderly - grass height and whatnot, where and when you are allowed to park on the street. That's enough for any reasonable human being. Unfortunately, HOAs seldom attract reasonable human beings.

Besides which, HOA fees are in addition to the taxes you already pay for services the city already provides. You don't get a break on your taxes just because your HOA has claimed ownership of the street in front of your house, making it a "private road" and hence giving them the ability to ban my electric-assist bicycle. I require the electric assist because I am disabled. So no bike riding for me as long as I am stuck in HOA hell. And given my "bike" is actually a "trike" I'm pretty sure they'd have problems with it even if it DIDN'T have an electric motor on it, even though it actually cost more than my car (which I bought used).

As for insisting folks park in the garage - what silliness! I'd rather have just a carport but I'm good with parking in the driveway. Sometimes its just more convenient.

If I had any intention of being in this place more than 2 or 3 years I'd want to finish the garage. That would allow me to add a second bathroom and a workshop for my pottery, which as of now will be located in the largest of the 3 bedrooms. And I would of course then be parking in the driveway 100% of the time.

Despite the HOA, this is one of the least attractive neighborhoods I've ever seen. Virtually every house in the neighborhood has pea gravel dumped on their yards. Its hideous. But I don't care about that other than peripherally - because MY yard is my only concern.

Your yard and your driveway are your concern. Your neighbor's is not.

As for me - I'll be ignoring as many of these "rules" as I can get away with. They can make all the rules they want, but it'll be pretty tough for anybody to get in and count my birds.

I require the electric assist because I am disabled

Then they can't ban you from using the electric assist because if they do, they are in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. All you need is a note from your Doctor stating you need the electric assist.

Sounds like a nightmare.

Sounds like an ungrateful parent complaining about his son's help.

No good deed goes unpunished...

I live in the Dallas area and there are virtually no basements here so many people do use their garages for storage. I have a 2 car garage and we get one car in there. Another sits in the driveway(which is in back off an alley also common in this area). My sons car sits out front. Lots of people do park cars up and down my street. I'm okay with it except for the personal work trucks.

Zensjourner, why didn't you or your son read the HOA papers before buying?

I believe the FCC mandated allowing normal size TV antennas and satellite dishes.

Some complain much...

sad really

Don't like HOA's don't buy in one, simple.

Everyone has such a different take on this subject. I'm one of 8 children. When Dad was alive, we'd make an effort to get as many of us as possible together at his house a couple of times a year--he loved this. This would result in multiple cars at his house for a few days--two in the garage, three in the driveway, 2-4 more out on the street in front of his property (he had a double lot, so there was room enough).

Some neighbors would comment to us that Dad must be happy we were all visiting. Some neighbors would nervously inquire if Dad was okay--all the cars made them think he must be dying or something. And the guy who parked all his cars in front of Dad's empty lot most days would complain that we were taking up all the street parking.

Cars are part of day to day life. It strikes me as odd that seeing a car on a residental street could be seen as wrecking a "view." People have cars; they need a place to park them. If seeing a neighbor's cars really bothers you that much, then probably best you move someplace where that is regulated.

Visiting is totally different than having nearly a dozen cars there at all times, xarcady. Of course you would visit your dad. Everyone gets this.

Garages exist to house cars. That is their purpose. No one wants to look at loads of cars up and down the road, or in front of and all over the yard of that one guy. Couple with the "car lot" are two people only.

zensojourner

My sympathies! But it is an HOA ghetto, designed to keep out the riff raff and the anarchists, an oasis for the strict rule abiding. (Wayward Pines, by any chance?)

No one on my street uses their garage for cars including us. Somehow we all survive with our dreadful view of cars on the street. I do have one neighbour who willpark on his lawn instead of walking an extra few feet and that does drive me crazy though. Definitely gives the Hicksville vibe. Lol

Once, our realtor took us to a neighborhood to look at a house for sale. The moment we came into the neighborhood, I knew right away I didn't want to live there. I wouldn't even get out to look at the house. Cars were parked on the street everywhere to the point it made a narrow one way lane down the middle of the streets. It doesn't look good at all, and I felt claustrophobic. And I don't mean people visiting neighbors, or the occasional moving your cars to the street to do yardwork, and such.