Thank you all for the responses. It is all very helpful.

My cabinets sometimes look like there is some purple in it. Other times red, and then sometimes just plain brown. I have some wood in our house that is "orange". But these cabinets seem to look different at different times.

Both the cabinets and floor appear to be warm. They are different values.

Annie, thanks for in the indepth info.

OK so lets say the cabinets are floor are "red" on the wheel. The granite we are thinking of is bianco romanco with those garnet spots that look like "red violet" to me. Can I take the next step over to "violet" with accents in the backsplash or accessories? Analogous color scheme?

I've google this with limited results. Seems many people don't like an analogous scheme that involves red and violet.

Another question. If I do an analogous scheme to I have to or should I add some green for contrast?

There will be some white in the room for trim and doors. Of course there is white in the bianco romanco. We were thinking of grey for the walls. Can't do green as we just painted a staircase off the kitchen green.

Any advise is very much appreciated! I really struggle with decorating.

Two things, as Annie has done a brilliant tutorial for us all...

ONE:
Bronwynsmom's Rule #42 of interior design:
Everything you can see FROM the room is IN the room.
Corollary:
Everything that reflects light back to your eye has a color, and a place in the scheme.

TWO:
To feel peaceful in a room, you need to see something of the whole range. It's why an all-red or all-blue room feels unsettling or unreal...your brain is trying to find the rest of the spectrum. In a red and violet room, for instance, one fat green plant can do it.
A room that is richly colored also usually benefits from a "holiday" somewhere - that is, a neutral or white somewhere.
And always, always, a wee touch of black.

If you look at the best home design magazines, you'll see that the stylist has added greenery or flowers to monochromatic rooms, to put the full range in the photo, or otherwise balance the color range.

It's really hard to say when you say your cabinets are red and you want to go to violet, as, at least in my mind, triggers primary colors which is a really hard color combo to live with.

However, if you talk about cherry and cranberry and stepping into plum and eggplant, that could be really lovely. A lot depends on the shades of the various colors you are talking about.

If you are unfamiliar with color combos, I suggest getting a professional to help you...for free... by looking for an inspiration piece. I usually look at fabric which has already been professionally colored by an artist...but it can be a plate, or a piece of art or something that ties into the colors you already have going.

Also a trick...if you're not sure of the main color, squint at it and see what color comes through...

If you post pics, I'm sure you'll get more help.

I just listened to a fabulous radio program on NPR Radiolab... about how we learn -- historically and neurologically -- to perceive color.

Did you know that the color "blue" is never mentioned in any of Homer's epic poems?

If you have a few moments, listen to this fascinating program.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why isn't the sky blue?

Here's my 2 cents.

Color Wheels:

Color wheels are useless. Most color wheels on the www as well as printed are incorrect and the accompanying theory to go with them is grossly misinformed. Even when spoken to correctly, a color wheel and its theories clumsily fits architectural color. Because a color wheel and its theories speaks in terms of pure hues. We rarely, if ever, use pure hues in the built environ. Supportive and appropriate colors for the built environ are from the tertiary and quaternary gamuts. That's where subtractive color meets the reality of human preference and function and that's where it - literally - gets complex and thus challenging.

Perfect example is the OP's multidimensional cabinet color - it's hard to pin down and label complex color in order to fit it into overly simplistic, often inaccurate, pedestrian color scheming theories.

The argument that a basic color wheel is at least good for teaching fundamental color relationship is a fairy tale. There are a million different versions of color wheels. The theory to go with has been restated in a gajillion different ways too. If a color wheel was so it-on-a-stick for teaching color relationships, then the ratio of number of color wheels to humans on earth should render just about everyone color capable. Yet, still, the fundamental concepts of architectural color escapes the majority.

Fandecks:

Paint fandecks are arranged for the convenience of paint store staff to mix color. There is no built-in color coordinating logic to the fandecks nor the strips. Each one different from the next and is organized unique to the brand. There is zero consistency to reference when it comes to color strips and fandecks.

A few brands use notation systems. For example, Dunn-Edwards uses Munsell, ICI/Dulux developed and uses their own notation system. The notation systems are simple once you understand them but can look kinda confusing unless you understand all the parts and dimensions of color.

The idea that the third color down on a strip will coordinate with every other third color down is one of the biggest color myths out there - and it's been perpetuated for more than 30 years so a lot of people believe it. It's simply not accurate.

In most color collections, each color on the strip is a completely individual and separate color from all the others. Very, very few decks/strips are literal let-downs. Meaning start with one color and then *lighten* in steps to get another five or seven colors - all with the same color characteristics like undertone. It's actually really difficult to do that, to make a strip of literal let-down colors.

So, in most instances the darkest color on the strip has not one fat thing to do with the other five or six color above it. If the colors weren't all together on one strip, most people would never in a million guess they all actually share a few color characteristics.

Those color characteristics come from the place of formula and colorants. And that takes this full circle back to the beginning that the arrangements facilitate the color mixing, not color designing. It's by default of formula and colorant compilation likenesses that all the colors on one strip might *look* similar. It's happenstance. Not by design.

Using one strip might work - happenstance may smile upon you. Or it might not - lack of conscious color design can screw you over.

Here is a link that might be useful: How color fandecks work

Annie, I so need an inspiration piece. Will start searching.

Mclarke and any one who listening to the NPR program....I can see when he thought the sheep were violet. White sheep look kind of like a violet gray to me. Thanks for posting it.

funcolors so I am now really confused. If there is no guide to what colors do well together how do you decide? I feel many people can just naturally put colors/designs together and they look good. I can't do that.

I think some of my issues are that the kitchen seems like it will be too warm color wise. I usually like cool colors. With the cabinets and floor warm I need some cool colors to feel comfortable. When I see a kitchen with warms colors for the cabs, floor, tile, walls I really don't like it and don't want to be there. So violet is a cool color and thought it would be fun to add.

I need to post some photos, will start working on it now.

Humm... Dark cherry and cinnamon maple - I guess I could see a light blue-violet maybe working, but def not a red-violet.

In addition to an inspiration piece as suggested, Dunn-Edwards has a very handy color tool that I'd try using if I were you. All the major paint websites do - I just find DE the most user friendly. Go to the website below and click on "Explore the Perfect Palette" and mess around. There is a cool neutrals button you can use to see lots of cool neutral colors. I'd also search for a cinnamon and/or dark cherry to try and find something close to your floors and cabs, then the site will give you some ideas of complementary colors. There are places were you can try the colors in rooms, etc. I find it useful to help me see how things may look. Just an approximation, of course, but helpful if you have trouble picturing it yourself.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dunn Edwards

funcolors, I knew someone would come in and disagree with my post. You didn't disappoint me.

But at some point the color wheel concept is a good guide, especially for newbies who are trying to work their way through the world of colors. And while it may not be adequate for experts such as yourself, it has its uses. Perhaps the steps are not precise when looking at a ben moore fan deck (and clearly it is different when you get to things like the historic colors) but they are close enough to be helpful for nonexperts to find their way to colors that work for them and their spaces.

Clearly not all manufacturers carry all colors and each will miss some beautiful colors in between....for example BM didn't satisfy the shade I wanted in my kitchen and I ended up with Martha Stewart from HD....but the basic concepts of hue, shade, tint, tone and saturation are helpful for talking about and dealing with the vast array of colors available to us.

As far as the 3 steps down, blame Christopher Lowell...I learned it from him and I've seen him put it to good use, especially when trying to drain the awfulness of a color such as wall tile by using paints with the same shades in different hues to incredible effects. May not be good enough for someone at Pantone, but good enough for me.

I don't entirely disagree with you. The right color wheel and the correct color theory to go with can be a guide and source of inspiration once you get the basics of color under your belt.

Color steps are precise when looking at a Ben Moore fandeck - just depends on which one. Color Preview is their only collection of color adjusted to paint base so the colors are 'in step' from darkest to lightest (or lightest to darkest depending on how you want to look at it).

The others are much less precise and more random and because of that, using colors from one strip in those collections will produce less precise and random results. Like I said, not impossible for it to work but there's a little luck involved for sure.

Christopher Lowell is unfortunately just another victim of the third one down urban legend - and he's in good company of many others.

The third color down always coordinating with other colors in the same position is one of the easiest color myths to debunk. It's kinda fun to take a look and see. Just pick up any fandeck or pull a handful of color strips and compare.

Colors in the third position will differ on many levels like grayscale value (clean or dirty), lightness value (light or dark), etc. They're all different, no rhyme or reason, some might relate, some not so much.

I'm really, really, really sorry, but I can not agree that using one strip or looking at the third color down is helpful for anyone in finding their way to colors that work for them and their spaces.

I apologize profusely for bursting color bubbles, because every time I debunk one of those color myths it inevitably strikes a nerve or two. Because so many of us grew up hearing those soundbites of how color is suppose to work and believe that since it's repeated by so many dear and trusted people that it must be accurate. I did too and it was only through the process of attempting to execute according to the tips did I realize there are some things that just don't add up.

It may not work for you, but it has worked for me...I've used one color up or down to coordinate walls and ceilings in various rooms in my house and have gotten a lot of compliments on the colors used, including strangers who'd peeked in the windows and stopped back when we were home specifically to ask what color we used in a room. My architect has had other clients come to our house to show them my color schemes in addition to other features of the house. So I think I have met with some small degree of success.

Of course, that is not the only thing I've relied on to do the colors in my house, but it is one easy to use technique. And making color choices accessible to people like the OP is a laudable goal...

If you came to my house, you may find my color schemes upsetting because of incorrect gradations or tonal scales, but you'd be one of not any. Except, of course for my wild a$$ bathroom which people either love or hate....either way, though, it's not a place anyone spends a lot of time....and I love it, which is the bottom line. (no pun intended)

Huh, I had no idea there was all this controversy about color and paint. But I shouldn't be surprised. I really know much less with certainty today than I did when I was younger, because I'm realizing so much of what I've heard in life simply isn't true at all. And with so much information on the internet it's no better, things contradict each other all the time. I did take a look at my fan deck, which happened to be right next to me, and noticed with the excitement of discovery that all the third colors down DO look nice together. Then I read that that's bunk, so I was disillusioned. But it turns out it's a BM Color Preview deck, so, yay,all is right with the world again, I can be excited by this new kernel of knowledge.

The trouble is figuring out what to believe, with color and everything else.

Just to throw more controversy into the discussion - years ago one of the colourists for BM told me that a colour above or below on a strip has nothing to do with each other. They are, unto themselves, separate colours and should not be compared. I was also told that trying to compare the top of a strip to the top of the next strip is also a useless exercise.

From that, I took it to mean that each colour must be treated separately. So, if you like a colour but want it a little darker or lighter, you amend that specific colour and don't automatically go to the one above or the one below.

Our whole house was repainted a couple of years ago in coordinating colours and not one colour is from the same strip. However that could be just the way our designer works in choosing colours.

egganddart, if you find the colors 3rd block down all go together and you like them, then use them.

And if one color on a strip has nothing to do with the one above or below it, then why, as in the image posted above, does the fan deck come out in such a lovely rainbow of colors with the outer edge so pale and the inner edge so deep with what appears to be shades and tints of the same hue? It doesn't have purple over green and yellow over red and come out looking like discrete blocks.

Now something like Farrow and Ball clearly just groups colors by family and there is no such relationship, but the relationship with the BM fan deck is plain to see and isn't that what color is all about? What you see?

Even if it is just an illusion, and color is all about perception and illusion, and that illusion is useful, then why not use it? After all, Newton's theory of gravity is not accurate, but still useful...

Which square is a different color from all the rest?

Sorry...I posted the wrong image above....try this one.

Which square is a different color?

Annie - I could tell which one was different on the first one you posted, but not the second. It hurts my eyes and brain just trying to figure it out :) I'm guessing there isn't a "different" one, but just an illusion like you mentioned.

First, I think the OPs question is a very good one. Particularly in kitchens, I have often wondered why in the world a wall color was chosen that clearly fights with the tone of the wood! Same thing in dining rooms, where the color of the wood is often the major source of color save the walls.

Second, I want to thank funcolors for debunking that "third color down" myth. I've heard it often, but when I compared strips I was always puzzled that the values of the colors, both in saturation and hue, bore no resemblance to each other.

In most color collections, each color on the strip is a completely individual and separate color from all the others. Very, very few decks/strips are literal let-downs. Meaning start with one color and then *lighten* in steps to get another five or seven colors - all with the same color characteristics like undertone. It's actually really difficult to do that, to make a strip of literal let-down colors.

In my experience, the above is absolutely true. (I never used BMs preview collection, though.)

People often also disregard the color of a wood floor. Wood floors can be the predominant "color tone" of a room. Floor color must be taken into account when choosing paint, rugs, fabric... everything.

Mcclarke--- so true.... We had friends with a very traditionally furnished home (Ethan Allen showroom style, mahogany and dark oak, not really into decorating but it looked fine) who put in wood floors later on thru out their entire house. They chose a very pale, almost white, floor that had a Scandinavian vibe because they were told (by the flooring guy) that it would "go with everything." Needless to say, it didn't go with anything, but they were blissfully unaware!

All I know is, you need to know what color is in your wood. The other colors you put in the room, will either intensive the wood color or cause it to recede. If you want to see more or less of the color in the wood, you need to know how to bring about that result.

For those willing to following along, I just started a new thread called "so wood has color, here are pics of my stuff". Not a great title, lol.

Thank you all for trying to educate me on color. I find this all very complicated.

OMG, amazeballs. Everyone who has posted since my last post is absolutely spot on with their observations. You guys are good!

And if one color on a strip has nothing to do with the one above or below it, then why, as in the image posted above, does the fan deck come out in such a lovely rainbow of colors with the outer edge so pale and the inner edge so deep with what appears to be shades and tints of the same hue?

Absolutely true, Annie. It is so because it is a picture of the Ben Moore Color Preview fandeck and that's how that one works. And just like egganddart49 realized the colors in like positions, 1 thru 7, *do* relate more times than not. . . because it is the Color Preview fandeck.

Each fandeck and color collection is unique. Can not craft color precepts (or urban legends) and attempt to apply globally with the expectation they will work every single time, guaranteed.

When it does work out, like in your house Annie, I'd like to suggest that it had a lot more to do with your natural ability to find, intuit, and guide yourself to beautiful color schemes first and then the logic of how they happened to be organized in a fan could, in actuality, be an after-the-fact kinda thing.

Which is interesting because color wheels are best used in an after-the-fact situation. A color wheel is a device to organize and then communicate observations of color. The first color wheels and color systems were actually created as a means to organize and describe what someone was seeing and experiencing. Newton saw the spectrum thru a prism first, then he bent it into a *wheel*. It's not like he started out with a color wheel in hand that then told him what to do with, how to explain, the spectrum he was seeing.

It's a cart before the horse thing. A color wheel is the cart.

Just to throw more controversy into the discussion - years ago one of the colourists for BM told me that a colour above or below on a strip has nothing to do with each other. They are, unto themselves, separate colours and should not be compared. I was also told that trying to compare the top of a strip to the top of the next strip is also a useless exercise. ~blfenton

They were probably speaking to the Classic Colors fandeck and were correct to share that with you about that collection of color, that fandeck.

Second, I want to thank funcolors for debunking that "third color down" myth. I've heard it often, but when I compared strips I was always puzzled that the values of the colors, both in saturation and hue, bore no resemblance to each other. ~kswl

You are welcome, kswl. I think each person has within them a color sense that is better trusted than some of the very well-meaning but often confusing fast and easy color tips; color tips we've all heard over and over for decades. (I'm old so it is literally decades)

It's like we've heard them so often that we come to believe they all must be right. And then when we go to apply and execute and it doesn't work we wonder if there's something wrong with us! Because if everyone else is repeating the same color tips, then the tips and tricks must work and be right... and what we're seeing and experience must somehow be wrong.

Because we lack confidence working with color, we push our innate color sense back and choose to ignore it. Opt to not listen to the little color voice we all have. Because we've been brainwashed to believe the external "experts" know more about our relationships with color than we do. They don't.

My apologies to debrak for hijacking her thread with this side issue.

If we are doing analogies, I'm afraid that you're throwing out the baby with the bath water. As you said, it isn't wrong to look at the steps down if you are looking at the color preview and it does work and can be used as a tool when selecting colors. (My mistake was in not specifying that particular color deck.) Concepts of getting shades and tints and tones of colors by adding black white and gray are important concepts and are helpful when looking at and choosing colors.

A color wheel is a device to organize and then communicate observations of color.

Exactly...and helping someone through understanding or choosing a color or a color scheme by using that tool is not wrong and can be very helpful, especially for people who are new to or unsure about doing such things. As in any other field of study, the tools and teaching techniques that are helpful for the 101 classes may be left behind for the more advanced classes in the subject, but that doesn't mean they aren't useful.

In the green squares above, here is the actual RGB values.

This was taken from a study showing that without the language to perceive colors, colors are not perceived. The people of the Himba tribe have no trouble perceiving the different colored square in this group.

Just to be clear, I never said that one strip of color (or looking at the steps down) can work and can be used as a "tool". The Color Preview deck might give you better odds because the colors are made, the steps are created (on average) from just one to two colorants, but it's not reliable enough to call it a tool or a solid color strategy.

Using one strip of color from any color collection is something that I disagree with and I've explained a couple times exactly why.

Again, it is a hit-and-miss strategy at best. If you hit it, then you got lucky and it likely has more to do with a good visual evaluation and color sense than the way the colors were ordered to accommodate paint manufacturer/store staff.

And I simply do not believe color wheels belong in color 101 classes. Color wheels (multiple incarnations) and their theories are perhaps more meaningful if explored once the basics of color have been learned - the pieces parts of color

A color wheel illustrates examples of observed color relationship but doesn't teach color fundamentals. Again, it's a cart before the horse situation and a color wheel is the cart.

Handing an illustration of a set of color concepts and observations (a color wheel of some sort) to someone who doesn't have the language to translate it and knowledge to apply it will confuse and frustrate. It doesn't help, it hinders.

Yet that's what many Color 101 classes do. They start with a color wheel. Because that's the best that teacher can do. Probably because that's what their Color 101 teacher did. And so on and so on.

But it's just like the "third one down" business. Just because that is what is repeated over and over doesn't mean it true, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

And, again, if color wheels worked so well doing what the fairy tales say they can do, then everyone would get color, no one would be confused or frustrated with color.

At some point the vicious cycle has to be broken - it needs to stop and correct color education and information needs to start happening. Because technology is putting very powerful options to implement color in very unprepared hands. Color is marching forward yet how we are educated about color is stuck in a 50 year old time warp of color myths, urban legends and misinformation.

It's a problem. Big enough and important enough for me to hijack a thread on the Garden Web. lol! :)

I don't mind the hijack at all. I will say that most of what you are all saying is over my head. Also, if no color wheel or paint strips then what?

Debrak_2008 - How about mood boards? Mentally, I cannot put together elements and see how they will turn out. I've found if I can place all the relevant elements together in the same picture, I am able to visually determine whether I will like the effect or not, as well as solicit input from the forum. For example in my backsplash search, I have been astounded by which tiles work and which are dreadful/bland/etc.

Google sketch up might be useful too - to put very simply, you draw and erase lines, and then can fairly easily recolor using your custom 'materials'.

So...dark cherry cabinets and cinnamon maple hardwood flooring... What else? Remember you can most definitely paint afterwards.

debrak - the answer is there isn't one magic color wheel to answer all of our color questions and teach us the basic, fundamental building blocks of color knowledge. Whether it's a traditional wheel or a fandeck of paint colors.

The hard thing is they ALL matter and can contribute something to that knowledge base.

So, it becomes a journey. A color journey. Along your journey you have to collect bits and blocks by giving yourself opportunities to experience color, think about color, experiment with color, and learn from others about color.

This is the truth of color and it has always been.

It's SO challenging these days because of blogs and the internet. You'd think access to more information and examples of color would be a good thing. I'm not convinced it is. Content is king and many are desperate to get it however they can because they can't write, have no real expertise or a combination of both. With this new era of blogs and the interwebs came a new kind of plagiarism. People who are desperate for content and/or desperate to promote themselves as experts they really are not, Google for information about color and find a million links from others who have done the very same thing. They find some content, think they understand it, rewrite it so it doesn't look like they stole it, edit it down to the requisite number of words for a blog post. A lot gets lost and muddled up in that process.

So they're all lifting the same misinformation from each other and making it worse by putting their own spin on it. If it wasn't so tragic, it'd be hilarious. The #1 thing that outs them as poseurs is they don't know the difference between the various spaces of color - like additive which is emitted light and subtractive which is reflected light to your eyes. What's out there in the top Google results right now is a mashup of color theories from what is essentially opposite spaces of color - or *kinds* of color.

In the #2 position is color wheels. They either choose to publish the color wheels that have already been edited and appear "easier to understand" or take it upon themselves to condense to make it simpler. The majority of color wheels and theories to go with begin to fall a part at secondary colors.

Paint manufacturer websites, color pro blogs, interior designer blogs. Not saying all, but a lot of 'em. Heck, even a few of the most popularly referenced books on color have made this mistake too.

What happens is folks on their color journey trying to collect bits and blocks are reading this stuff -very closely- trying to make it make sense and it doesn't make sense. It can't make sense because it's a mashup of very different color theories and sciences. But because some "expert" says it's true on their blog or in their book, the reader thinks the content must be right and they're just not cut out to ever "get" this color thing.

Overall, it's a hot mess and just very sad. It saddens me how the joy of discovery has been hacked out of color.

Many people get overwhelmed, confused, worn out from trying to sort the bad information from the good. Some give up because who has time or energy to try to sort thru all the stupid crap? Unless that's where passion lies and you really *want* it, it all sounds ridiculous especially in the throes of needing to choose colors for a project.

Learning from others - Debrak, I like the solution suggested of finding an inspiration piece with a color way that speaks to you and works with the wood tones you have going on. Really, just answer the question does it all look nice together, do you think it looks pretty. Copy the colors from that color way to create your palette. I think that's a great way to use an inspiration piece.

Inspiration pieces are sometimes overrated and misused but I do believe that is rant for another day. ;)

Ultimately, I don't think the it matters that much which color you choose as long as get the correct undertones, hue and value right. One teeny tiny degree in either direction won't make any difference.

It's like cooking, some people really enjoy the science behind the recipe, others don't, but neither has much to do with the finished dish if they both use the same recipe and know how to cook.
I think that green chart posted above, the second one, the turq is obvious in the first, is misleading and deflating for a lot of people if they can't pick out the different color. In their house, it won't make one wit of difference!

Bumblebeez, my point in posting the pic where you can't perceive the different color was not to deflate or discourage, but only to point out that colors are truly in the eye of the beholder and to even see colors we need a language around them. I think using a color wheel image to explain the color spectrum and describe the relationship between colors and give us this language about colors is helpful. I agree with funcolors in that a flat, 6 section color wheel, as debrak mentioned in her original post, is not useful when trying to decorate with color. That's why I gave the more detailed explanation...trying to give her enough information to make it useful and to make understanding colors accessible.

Funcolors, I get how clearly passionate you are about this issue. I get the subtleties and complexities of color and color perception. But I also get where Debrak is coming from and want to help her out.

Perhaps Bumblebeez's analogy to cooking is most helpful. There are those who enjoy the whole process and art of cooking, who are willing to take the time to "journey" through the complexities of being a French chef, but there are others who are just trying to get a decent meal on the table. Julia Child vs Rachel Ray.

My impression was that debrak was in the latter camp. Giving her some basic tools to use to think about color and make observations about color and a simple rule like 3 steps down on the BM color deck was to make color choices accessible to her. We agree on the inspiration piece as an easier way to work with developing a color scheme, but she's also going to try to match or blend colors with that inspiration piece, and is going to need to understand how a color can be more saturated or lightened or darkened or grayed down or have the wrong undertones and how those aren't all the same thing. And she'll need to have the language to describe that.

My concern is that by trashing these basics (as I'm sure Julia would trash Rachel's cooking techniques) has done a disservice to debrak, making working with color seem inaccessible. Then telling her that these basics do matter and do contribute knowledge only makes it more confusing. I know our discussion about the topic certainly has made it more difficult, not less, as even she says she's finding it all very complicated. Rather than believing she can do it and can actually enjoy the process of developing a color scheme, it risks turning her off entirely. If you think that the only way to cook is to be a french chef, then you may give up before you start. Chop n drop cooking may not be as elegant as foie gras, but it works and gets the job done. Or perhaps it's that I'm trying to give her a simple recipe to follow, and you're cooking like my grandmother...add flour til it feels right.

Funcolors, we'll just have to agree on what we can and disagree on the rest.

I actually meant more of a scientific approach to cooking - and there are quite a few people who deeply enjoy that, knowing how different molecules combine, etc, Harold McGee style. But others, like Julia and Rachel, don't take that approach but both types can produce an equally worthy meal.

I don't find understanding complex color theory necessary to choose beautiful, harmonious colors - it's just a different route to the same end place. Some people will find it helpful and for those who do, wonderful.

I'm not trashing the basics - at all. I've long championed the building of a solid foundation of color knowledge.

What I am calling attention to isn't the basics. What I'm calling attention is what being labeled as the basics but is not. Rather it's a mashup of garbage Googled color theory.

I don't see how the perpetual sharing of incorrect, misleading and just flat out wrong color information is helpful to anyone.

Confusion and frustration doesn't come from too much or too complicated.

It comes from misinformation about color.

I agree with you bumble, I don't think it's necessary to understand complex color theory to do wonderful things with color. Like I said before in the post to kswl, everyone needs to rely on their innate color sense more and less on what the experts say.

But if you're going to drag color wheels and color theories and color methods into the conversation, the information should be correct - and it should be proven and workable - or there's no point in bringing it up.

Annie, I just reread your posts and have a better understanding. Finally fiquired out how to use that color tool you linked. Wish there was a way to save and print out.

bronwnynsmom, Are all your rules posted somewhere? I would enjoy reading them. So I will add some green, plants etc. The black rule is one I actually knew!

As for the inspiration piece I think I'm going to use autumn leaves. Our yard will be filled with colorful leaves this fall. I have always loved them. Looking at the color of the cabinets, definately a purple undertone and the "orange" of the flooring, those are autumn leaf colors. I noticed this when playing with Annie's color tool. I have a picture frame with painted metal leaves. The colors are dark purple, orange, yellow, green, black, red. Its beautiful. The only color missing is blue which I didn't want in the kitchen anyway.

So funcolors, are you saying that if you maybe work with an inspiration piece for ideas, put together a mood board, and you think it looks good, like the effect, then do it? Trust your instincts?

Well before I go any farther on this journey we need to finalize our granite choice. Wednesday is the day. We have been going back and forth between a white granite like bianco romano, BA aka white diamond, and black as in Labrador black. Black is our prefered choice but DH has issues with black counters, light backsplashes, and dark cabs. So if we do go with black the BS will have to be more medium tones or a blend of light to dark. My concern was it would be too dark overall. I'm thinking that going with black will help with the other color choices. Thoughts?

I will post what we finally decide.

Thank you all!

"I'm thinking that going with black will help with the other color choices. Thoughts?"

This might be worth starting a new topic.

I loved black counters -- until I spent a year in a rental with black granite counters.

They were impossible to keep clean. Every crumb, every smudge, every tiny speck of dust, made the kitchen look filthy. Would this matter to you? It mattered to me.

And there's another "rule" for you: Function over form. If it doesn't serve its purpose to your satisfaction, you will eventually resent its "beauty".

Debrak, I am so thrilled to hear yo say "autumn leaves."

Whenever anyone asks me about how to decide on a palette, I advise against using the materials you use to get there (paint chips, stone samples, stain charts...) and steered them toward real things. Paintings. China patterns. The dawn sky. Illustrations from children's books. Like that.

I have some dissatisfaction with House Beautiful's current editorial stance, but one great feature is the page in every issue on which they publish a gorgeous photo of something - a pile of shells, the facade of a crumbling house in Havana, a sunset on the beach - and then match paint colors to the palette the photo suggests. It teaches us to go back to the source.

Understanding color, not with the academic and technical depth that funcolors brings to the party, or with the eye and experience that Annie can draw on, but just as an enrichment to our pleasure in our world, and our ability to make judgements about what to wear and what paint colors to choose, derives, first and foremost, from learning to see.

I've said this before...but two places to begin to train yourself to see color are, a cloudy sky that just looks gray at first, and John Singer Sargeant's paintings of women in white dresses, and white buildings on Corfu.

The second step, in my view, is learning to recognize our reactions to the colored environment, and that one is sometimes hardest. If you are a person who cares to please others (a good trait, in the proper balance), it's easy to forget to tune in to ourselves on a regular basis. I can't tell you how many tense women I've known who have decorated for a sense of "home," without realizing that the "home" they are replicating was a place where they weren't at all happy.

Here's a story to illustrate what I mean.

"I grew up in the mountains, but what I have always loved was the beach," said one client years ago, tears in her eyes, as she realized for the first time that the greens and russets and golds with which she had always filled her house made her feel claustrophobic, cranky, and trapped. It was her stern, temperamental father's taste, and her mother's intimidated life was all over her own house.

In one month, we changed her entire color scheme to sun-washed, watery blues and greens, sand and shell colors, and light informal slipcovers on all the dark upholstery. We replaced all the clubby dark mats on her pictures with pale ones, and painted her kitchen cabinets and a couple of pieces of ordinary old furniture in shades of white.

Six months later she had lost 35 pounds and gotten a new, better job. She changed her life because she embraced her life, and it started with making her house a generator of peace, energy, and hope.

And that, children, is the power of color.

End of sermon.

Oh I think they will kick me off of here is I started another thread right now :) The black we are interested in is Labrador black which is not like Absolute Black. It has depth. We have a similiar granite called steel grey in our bathroom and it hides everything. Labrador is just a little blacker. Plus it doesn't stain, needs no sealing, so great function.

Oh, and, Debrak, no, I've never really collected my rules - calling them by a number is just a device, truth to tell.

But you are inspiring me, and I'm going to start a file and codify all these opinions I'm so quick to spread around!

debrak, please start as many threads as you like...enjoying the opportunity to decorate vicariously is why we're here! (Or I should speak for myself...it's why I'm here!)

So I went to look at a pic of labrador black....forgot to put in "granite" so this is the image I got.

While an asset to any kitchen, I don't think so much on the counter!

Labrador black does have some variation in it...

but I like it when a counter and a floor ties in together. Perhaps Labrador Gold Black will do that and help develop your color story. And it will be a bit brighter than the labrador black

{{gwi:1764952}}

So then I was flipping through some other granite pics and came across this puppy: Iron red. Gorgeous!

Oh yea that iron red I'm sure costs a fortune. As I said on the other thread we are going to re-look at every granite they have. We narrowed it down to one granite yard/fabricator. They offer the best customer service, reasonable prices, a good selection. So I need to pick from what they have.

Ok so last night just for fun we went to HD and took the cabinet sample. We were drawn to the darker granites and DH noticed Dakota Mahagony (sp?). It was pricey at HD plus I was sure how it would look with the cabs and floor. I don't even know if our granite place carries it.

Can't find a photo that will allow me to post it. Thoughts?

That's quite a story, bronwyn's mom--- you may have missed your true calling!

Annie, why not a black labrador on the countertop? Oh, of course, they are too big.
I am a fan of black furry things on countertops, however, since you can't train cats not to go wherever they like anyway (when you're not looking).
This was right before we replaced that countertop with black Silestone, on which she looked even more regal and pleased with herself...

I must have missed bronwynsmom story. Kswl thanks for mentioning it.

Oh and we have a black kitty with a white bikini that I think is going to love our island.

Oh no! Let's not go there again....we already did the pets on counters thread!

Ewwww!

Uh oh...I missed it, and I'm glad.

Annie. Darling.
I clean them. I clean them religiously, not to say obsessively. First with a Clorox wipe or a regular organic cleaner, and then with a solution of rubbing alcohol. No food or food equipment follows kitty feet...or kitty sitters.

You can come to dinner without fear now. Then I'll tell you about my raw chicken protocol....

That's ok bronwynsmom, I got the raw chicken spill with my trusty sponge... oh wait, maybe I should use a paper towel for this one? Help, which way to go?!!

Sorry for the hijack debrak, couldn't resist :)

So funcolors, are you saying that if you maybe work with an inspiration piece for ideas, put together a mood board, and you think it looks good, like the effect, then do it? Trust your instincts?

Yes.

Other people's color wheels and theories will still be there after you get some stuff together. A color wheel can be a great second opinion and help answer the question 'does this work' and why it works -- or not.

Janice Lindsay also speaks to how 'the right' color wheel is often best left until after the fact and used for analyzing rather than guidance, or a map, in her book All About Color.

Here is a link that might be useful: All About Color

I updated the granite search on my other thread. I'll leave this one for more about color theory and pets on counters :)

Has anyone read Dean Sickler's The Keys to Color? He does discuss color wheels, and I found him very informative, especially when it comes to matching new paint to existing colors in your environment. (There's a passage about finding the perfect white that would make Gardenwebbers howl, however.)

There's a passage about finding the perfect white that would make Gardenwebbers howl, however.

...and that's they way it is with ALL of them, meaning other people's color wheels and theories. There's some stuff that is applicable, some stuff that is good, correct information and some of it's ridiculous crap.

When it comes to supportive color for the built environment, 3-dimensional architectural color NONE of the color wheels or theories fit perfectly.

Because the authors are writing about color from their bailiwick. Sickler is a finisher, not an architectural color consultant. An architectural color consultant's perspective often misses on all things paint and paint color mixing. A fine arts perspective is very narrow and stuck in 2 dimensions. A set designer doesn't get what "humanly supportive color" means. A color scientist lacks ability to flip right brain/left brain and apply what he/she knows creatively. Lighting designers soar with colored light but stumble when it comes to the tactile. And I could go on.

Out of all the disciplines graphic design is the most objective and broadly educated about color and theories because it works from both core spaces of color, additive and subtractive, hinges on color psychology and also has to deal with dimension in the form of printing and packaging. But scaling all that knowledge up to proportions of architecture is where it gets tough.

Everyone is set squarely in their own zone of the color sandbox passionate that their spot in the box is the best, knows the most, and coupled with their gifted and innate "talent" for color, is able to translate *all* to color for the built environment.

I tend to disagree.

Many are not willing to concede that architectural color is its own, unique spot in the sandbox and while some aspects of other disciplines do apply, what's key is a multi-disciplinary approach, an ability to think objectively, and an open mind to see color, figuratively and literally, in bigger ways.