No - you aren't living in the wrong century. Your husband is. What a crock! And if I understand you correctly, the painters are working in your house, but won't speak to you? I'd be kicking their butts out the door faster than you can say, well, "butt kick." And I'd pester that contractor until he spoke with me and worked out a viable solution to this problem. I'm so very sorry you're dealing with this. I would be livid!

You are correct, your husband is correct for his world view, which is, what, 19th century England? As I just learned from recent personal experience with painters, it is wrong to let people continue to do shoddy work in your home when you are fully aware they are doing shoddy work. You are not wanting to be friends with these people, who really cares what they think of you.
Get rid of them, politely but firmly, and find somebody else, even if you lose a week or two of time.

I'm so glad I did. I bet if you talk to a decorator, architect, cabinet shop, or even the paint store, they could direct you to somebody better.

I think you should fire these painters, and the sooner the better.

Have you heard of AngiesList? You can find a good painter on there. :)

Thank you for at least letting me think I wasn't losing my mind. I probably was wrong and should have taken the painter outside to talk to him without his son present but I really forgot about him as didn't expect him to be there. But I just couldn't stand it any longer.

So to top it off my husband says I was wrong, that a woman can't correct a man in front of his son.

It's not your fault that the buy brought his son and did shoddy work.

First place this is your house no matter what your gender and you have every right to speak up if the work isn't being done to your satisfaction. Second up, unless the son is employed by the father to work on your job, really he had no reason to be there. Before I get any grief about that, we own a contracting company .. I can't *imagine* my husband bringing any of our kids to a clients job site just to hang out, it's very unprofessional. I agree if the painters are being that sloppy and now coping an attitude with you, it's time to talk to your contractor about finding someone that will do a professional job.

Zipdee brings up an excellent point. If the boy (and the wife, for that matter) was not actually employed by the painting company, he should not have been in your house. There are just too many legal implications there. What if he'd gotten hurt somehow? Likely as not they'd come looking for your insurer, and you don't want that!

"a woman just can't embarass a man like that"

Excuse me??? Get a grip - you're the employer and the homeowner, they are doing less than professional work. You have every right to point out the mess and to expect it cleaned up (properly) and care taken so that it doesn't happen again. MAYBE, maybe, if you screamed at him like a harpey I'd say try a softer approach (the old flies and honey thing) but from what you said,it doesn't sound to me like you were out of line at all.

LOL! I think I'd just have to go ahead and kick my hubby's arse for saying such a thing as well! Honestly ... "a woman just can't embarrass a man like that ..." I'm getting all riled up the more I think about that! Grrrrrrrrr!

Well, the contractor finally called me back and said he had all these messages and blamed it on poor mobile service for not getting back to me. While I am going on and on about the painters, he listens then says, honest to goodness, "Don't worry about it, I'll call and smooth it over with the painters" as I am gasping, he said he did tell them to be should and be careful and use more dropcloths.

"Smooth it over with the painters" -- ?? Like you were out of line?

What an ass.

I'd love to know where you live that all these men you encounter think they're all of that and some?

Is this a men's club where there's an agreement that no woman shall have a valid opinion, and if she does she will be denied validation? Protect the male's over-inflated ego at all costs?

Sounds to me you are right in line with your expectations and the way you handled it (although I probably would have been a little more assertive and told the contractor where to stick it when he said he'd "smooth it over".) But then I'm known to be a little hot headed when I'm right and people don't realize it ;).

I would fire the lot of them and start over---honestly. I did that several weeks ago when a painter I hired (on the recommendation of the cabinet shop making my new doors) turned out to be lazy, nosy, gossipy, and an incompetent workman. This stretched out a job that was supposed to take a week into about 8 weeks, but at least it's been done right. I am just amazed at the gall of some people!

At least I did not have to contend with a husband's (or GC's) patriarchal attitude, though. Sorry you are going through this, and sincerely hope the end result is worth it.

Get those bozos out of your house ASAP! They are ruining your home and your contractor should have never sent you someone who he knows nothing about.

I'm not even going to comment on your husband's thinking. LOL

Okay, update...I live in the South (large city) isn't that a surprise? Hubby said he thought about it and when he came home from work tonight and saw the painters did almost nothing today he said he agreed they had to go tomorrow and he said they just had to stop making a mess. I think he didn't want to hack off the contractor by getting new painters as we are almost done and wanted to "baby" the project through. He did agree that the painter was out of line to now refuse to speak to me. So, I can safely say it isn't going to get "smoothed over."

You are paying these people for the work and they are creating damages that you'll have to have fixed by someone, or you'll have to fix it yourself. I'd tell them they won't be needed any more. There must be someone you can hire who will do the job correctly and won't mess up your home in the process.

I am waiting for the contractor to get here to fire the painters and he says he is on his way. The painters have now moved into my master bathroom and painting the walls around my $3,000 white bathtub that is uncovered.

I know I should have fired them myself right now but my husband wants me to wait until the contractor gets there. I had to go outside on the patio and have a come apart. My husband says this morning that he doesn't believe it should be that women can't "embarrass" men in front of their son but that is reality and that he says that isn't what he believes but what the painters and contractor and "other" men believe here. Sounds fishy to me. Oh, and the painter brought his kid back to work with him today.

i'm late coming into this but WOW. Very unprofessional for the painter to bring his wife and kid along. You're handling this soooo much better than I would. Or anyone else that posted above from the sounds of it! ha. Let us know how that knows! I hope it's all made right fast for you guys.

There is no reason that you should have to put up with any of this. You hired professionals to do a professional job, they are not delivering a professional job, they deserve to be fired. If they can't handle being bossed by a woman it's THEIR problem not yours. Fire away! And I wouldn't worry one bit about what the kid thinks. He should see how the 21st century works anyway.

And where the heck is the contractor during all this mess?! I'd fire his butt too!

You don't have to wait for the contractor to stop the work. Tell the painters the contractor is on the way to have a discussion with them and they're to wait outside for him.

Or, just tell them to get out...........they're fired!

BTW, my guess was going to be that you're located in the South. I was raised there and things have changed some.........but not a whole lot.
What it comes down to is that DH is worried about his own standing in the community and is (partially) in the same mindset as the guys he's worried about insulting.
My DS still lives there and she's went thru h@ll building her home, but she acted as GC and the 'guys' learned to respect her.

I'd suggest you take control............you'll feel much better and will respect yourself more.

My husband says this morning that he doesn't believe it should be that women can't "embarrass" men in front of their son but that is reality and that he says that isn't what he believes but what the painters and contractor and "other" men believe here.

Um, who cares what "other" obviously unenlightened, backwards-thinking men "believe"? I live in Texas, if that counts as "the south", and lemme tell ya - if somebody's in my home making a mess and being a buttinsky to me about it, they're going to get called out on it. If it "embarrasses" them, that's just too freakin' bad.

XO,
Aunt Jen with raging PMS
;-D

auntjen - we have an auntjen in Texas and I had to check your page to see if you were "our" Jen! lol. She's say exactly the same thing, PMS or not!!;).

One wonders how workmen like that manage to make a living.

16 year olds need to know how the real world works.
Inferior work = unhappy customers = getting fired.
The male vs. female stuff is all totally beside the point.

I fired my painter, but I had a great contractor who did it for me. After 5 months of construction, the painter got very sloppy, and I had enough. I called my contractor, walked him through the house and pointed out the painter's mistakes and paint droppings (and white handprints down my natural wood bannister) and told him to tell the painter to never come back.

The painter made all kinds of excuses and wanted to finish and give me a credit. I took the credit and finished things myself.

Since I live in the North, and am single, I find this male macho thing interesting/funny/sad. Would these men think that I shouldn't say anything since I don't have a husband to say it for me? That's not going to happen! LOL!

I had to come back and see how you were doing Mollie.

Okay as Northern that has lived in NC for the last 10 years .. I say you march in to *your* house and tell the painter he's fired pronto, please remove himself and his family from your home. A construction site is no place for a child and it is an insurance risk to have him there as Jen mentioned. When your Contractor shows, tell him to stop being a condescending ass, you write his pay check and he'd do well to remember that. Then when your DH gets home, tell him he can either personally hang out to handle these matters or he can be happy your there to do it .. The End.

Heck, if I lived closer to you I'd come do it for you just to see the looks on their faces. ;)

Heather (who has pissed off more than a few condescending men in her time .. Southern and Otherwise and doesn't care. *LOL*)

Mollie, did the contractor fire them? And if not - are you paying them by the hour or by the job? I hope it's by the job, otherwise it's time to load the shotgun... ;)

Susan

Latest Update...when I found the painters painting over my new $3000 white bathtub with no plastic or dropcloth over it I went out on the patio and called my husband and fussed. Let's see, what is wrong with me? I am an administrator with a large school district but can't manage my own living room??? My husband to please me comes home as I went on to work to put plastic over the tub (he was only 15 min away). He comes in with the plastic and finds the kid (high school age painter's son) sitting in my bathtub with his feet all over the rims and footprints on the non-skid white bottom. He lost it. He told the kid to get the &%$# (heck) out of the tub and he said the kid took off. He said the painter came out of another room, gave him the evil eye and went into another room to paint saying nothing. My husband is very, very mild mannered but large (tall) man. Husband then leaves without saying anything to painter as husband believes we signed a legal contract with contractor that he "manages" the subs and doesn't want a hassle with contractor. My adult daughter who was at my house working in the garden said the contractor showed up later this morning and went in and had a discussion with the painters and the contractor left and then the painters left. So, I am assuming he fired the painters but of course he hasn't called either my husband or myself. It is a HUGE relief if the painters don't come back tomorrow even if we have to wait to get others. I have always tried to have good manners and not yell, cry or embarrass people, we have built several houses and yet the sorry workmanship I am seeing lately is just unexcusable, especially when paying top dollar. Mollie

I had a similar situation when I remodeled the bathroom in my first home. Long story short, they ended up paying for carpet cleaning and doing a few upgrades.
I don't care who, what, or when. I will NEVER allow a contractor to disrespect my home. It matters not one iota if it is expensive hardwood or KMart vinyl tile. It may be his job, but it is my home. I learned to be assertive on that remodel. Learned really well. Ya done good :)

Soon as I read this I said to myself "She must live in the south", LOL!

I'm a single woman who owns my own home in the south and I have had the same disrespect from men here, and women too. The women think something's not right with me because I choose to be single and "OMG you don't have kids, what's wrong with you?" It's as if you have to be married, barefoot and pregnant (again) around here or you're considered weird.

I was a member of the women's auxillary at church and our meetings were all about showing support for "our men". At group dinners, the women were not allowed to eat until the men had their fill, and the women got the leftovers. I've never seen anything like this anywhere else I've lived. Needless to say, I'm no longer a member of that church, but it's the most popular religion here, and that is the mindset of most of the people where I live.

I'm having a heck of a time with contractors right now. They don't take women seriously here and I'm really sick of it. I feel like I'm going to have to hire a man to pretend to be my DH, just to deal with the contractors. The reason I'm fixing up my house is to put it on the market, so I can move far, far from the south, LOL! I know it's not this way all over the south, but there are those "pockets" in the south where it's like living in another world.

Briefly OT: Tnpd, I invite you to check out the Episcopal Church! I live in the deep South and that attitude would never get a toehold in our denomination.

kswl: Very interesting article on "the fight for the Episcopal Church" (or something like that) in this month's Harper's magazine (or was it The Atlantic Monthly? I think it was Harper's). . .

Mollie -- I hope that your so-called painters are outta there. I just came to this discussion, or I would have jumped in sooner and encouraged you to do whatever it takes to get these people out of your house.

I was a professional housepainter for 15 years. We always said the worst jobs were the ones where you have to work after bad painters have worked. Painting problems (drips, splatters, wrong materials, wrong equipment, poor timing, inexperience, poor attitude, non-completion) are usually difficult and time-consuming to correct.

My point is that you want to make sure the next painter your contractor brings in doesn't just pick up where the others left off. The new painter will have to clean up after them and correct their mistakes. Maybe they didn't sand the walls and trim before painting them, for example. Painter #2 will have to go back and sand a finish coat, and reapply paint.

You need to find a way to be firm and businesslike with your contractor. Ignore the gender stereotypes. I live in the south, too, and have found that if you take yourself seriously and stand your ground, as long as you are polite and respectful, you will be taken seriously and get results.

Glad to hear they're gone, but not impressed that the contractor hasn't contacted you. Sure, he's now got to find painters to finish the job but if you don't tell him what you expect from any future subs the same will happen again.

You said...."husband believes we signed a legal contract with contractor that he "manages" the subs and doesn't want a hassle with contractor". Maybe you've never had to deal with problem contractors and subs before but in the future remember that you're the one with the checkbook and you hired the contractor. You have every right to refuse any subs he's hired and every right to run them off your property whenever you choose too. Your GC should have gotten on the phone with them and told them to leave the minute you complained.

Having said all this, I can understand what you're going thru. I see it every time I go back and visit relatives! There just seems to be this mindset where everyone tip toes around confrontation..........at least in my part of the South! ;)

"No - you aren't living in the wrong century. Your husband is"

"You are correct, your husband is correct for his world view, which is, what, 19th century England"

"At least I did not have to contend with a husband's (or GC's) patriarchal attitude"

LOL! I think I'd just have to go ahead and kick my hubby's arse for saying such a thing as well

Aside from the painters.....I think one of the problems here is airing a private conversation held between you and your husband up for comment on a public forum. I can just imagine what some of you would say if you knew your husband was quoting some of the things you say on a message board.

Its just not "fighting" fair. You have a problem....take it to the place where the problem can be resolved...and that place isnt here.

I really don't think "being assertive" is necessarily effective if someone just doesn't share the same work ethic or standards for quality.

I just had floors done, and was "polite" but "assertive" about my observations where they were falling short of the quality i expected. Advance time, and i now have a large stain in my chair i can't get out, scratches in my wood furniture, bashes in my moldings, and a floor (which is what they were here for) that was cut just short of the molding in a few spots.

I'm beside myself, but at a level of frustration where i don't want them setting foot in the house again. As someone else earlier said, you're left to pick up the pieces and fix things.

With all due respect to contractors and sub-contractors who don't fall into this category, my ideal world would be one where i never have to have another contractor in my home again.

Its just not "fighting" fair. You have a problem....take it to the place where the problem can be resolved...and that place isnt here.

I think it's pretty innocuous. We don't really "know" each other here -- for the most part there's no "real life" personal contact, so many of us feel safe in venting issues that arise in our personal relationships. Sometimes we just need to write out what we're feeling and have our feelings validated by other women. That's one of the many purposes that public forums serve and IMO, there's nothing wrong with it.

I am certainly not "fighting" with my husband, we have both had frustrations with the contractor and subs on this project. We are not mad with each other but upset at ourselves as neither of us has been assertive enough with the contractor. It is a relief that no painters showed up this morning. I thought is was "funny" that it took the kid lying with his feet all over my tub to finally push my husband (who is a gentle soul) over the edge and insist the painters be fired. I think besides using this forum to pick out colors and furniture, I have received valuable advice from both men and women here about how to manage the subs and not settle for shoddy workmanhip which I see as an important part of decorating. We are transplanted from the midwest and love the South but it is a different mindset about role models with some people. Unfortunately, many times it is left to women to deal with the day to day decorating decisions and I am really ashamed of my cowardness in dealing with these workmen.

Mollie ... you're beating yourself up far too much. You were dealing with a level of belligerence that quite likely could not have been influenced regardless of what you said and how you said it.

I looked at a bashed in bit of molding (a hammer "slipped") and said, that has to be filled, or maybe even the strip replaced. The response? "Oh, you'd be amazed how much white paint will hide." This dialog was repeated twice, until it became clear to me that no matter what i said, or how i approached this man, he was not going to properly repair the damage he'd done, because he simply had a different definition of "it's fine."

Do you see what i'm saying? You can't say that you and your husband weren't assertive enough. If you're banging your head against a wall, does it really matter how hard you bang it?

Mollie, please don't think of yourself as a "coward," because it's simply not true. Dealing with contractors is a learning curve--we've all been there.

dtinbna: There's nothing unseemly or disloyal about what Mollie has shared. Nothing wrong with sharing disagreements one has had with one's spouse over decorating issues--again, we've all been there. Plus, my guess is that her husband couldn't care less. I know mine wouldn't. :)

Mollie-- I hope you have new, competent painters on the job and I am sorry for everything you had to go through. It was an eye-opening experience for me to read through the postings and see that, in some parts of the country, women are not given the same courtesy and respect as men.

In our society today it seems that there are more and more people who feel that doing a second rate job at anything is just fine. Where is the pride in doing the job to the best of your ability? That son needed to see, IMHO, that the job that his father was doing wasn't up to the standards that you expected. If nobody points that out he will grow up believing that shoddy work is acceptable. You were well within your rights to complain; it is your house and you will have to live with the completed project. Not to mention that you are paying the bills!

What frustrates me about your situation is that your spouse didn't stand united with you. If my DH knew the job was being done incorrectly and didn't support me, that would anger me more than anything else. Knowing about the female bias in your area he should have stood shoulder to shoulder with you in support. Of course, I live up north and have not had to deal with this gender issue so I suppose it's easy for me to say.

I wish you the best of luck on the remainder of your project.

Oh......I must have misread somewhere that these message boards were only for women. I guess Ill just mosey on over to the sports or automotive message boards...or someplace thats equally as stereotypical. Hmmm...I guess its not just men afterall that deal in stereotypes or assumptions about gender. Good luck with your painting Mollie....before too long it will all be over with and youll be able to enjoy your home again. And to leave you with this...do you all think for one moment that contractors dont talk down to men as well? It may not be a men-women thing you are experiencing, but a contractor thing.

dtinbna: What's your deal? Nobody's dealing in "stereotypes" here. In my experience, contractors--as a rule, and cognizant of exceptions to that rule--take men more seriously than they do women. As do auto salesmen, etc. That's the way it is. Hardly news.

Jeez Louise. (Oh, wait - I guess I'd better say Jeez Louis as well.)

Is it bran muffin time around here again?

;-D

I was born and raised in MS and now live in Louisiana so I am a southern lady through and through. Beyond that, my dad was a shovenist (can't remember how to spell it but you know what I mean). He believe woman should be inside barefoot and pregnant. My husband on the other hand is not at all. Without trying to catch rath of the board, I do think your dh was partially right. Yes, you should be able to chew the painter out in front of anyone. The problem is that there are some out there that are pigs and it will only cause more trouble to do so in front of their son. Seems to me your painter could fit into the pig category. Of course, this shouldn't be the case but it might have helped that the kid wasn't present and your dh or other contractor do the fussing. Right or wrong sometimes doesn't matter. In the end, you wanted them to do a better job and if he is a pig that doesn't want a woman telling him what to do then it would probably make matters worse rather than better.

Having said that, I know what should be done but I would have tossed that pig out on his curly tail. I never back down, even when I probably should, and being that I am a large woman 6' tall, I usually get my way. Dh just shakes his head when he sees that light in my eyes and my walking off with that look. So you see, I don't fault you but at the same time I do understand your dh. I hope the paint is now finished correctly and you are enjoying life.

Let's not defame pigs, okay? LOL PIgs happen to be very intelligent and loving creatures.

This not respecting a woman discussion is not just a southern thang.
Like, the men painters up north listen to a woman every time???????? I don't think so.
Its not the area you live in ...its the mindset of the idiot you deal with in any area.
A man doesn't have to be raised in the south to think women
should be barefoot and pregnant.
Some men "up yonder" still haven't found their way into
the 21st century.
With that being pointed out.....regardless where you live or how polite you have been raised.....when anyone raises your blood pressure in your own home....show them the front door.
Then smile....its looking up from then on.

estreya ,

In cases like yours you should have refused payment until all problems were repaired.......or use it to pay someone else to repair the damage.

As you've discovered, how assertive you are and someone's work ethic have nothing to do with each other. You tried the nice way, but then after his brush off (no pun intended) you should have dropped the polite approach. If you didn't like the quality of his work you should have stopped his work and shown him the door. Cutting the floor short of the baseboard!?? Give me a break!

The issue of this thread really isn't how people in different parts of the county interact.........it's how to handle contractors. TELL them what you want....don't hint at it. In the case of the hammer dent, my response would have been, "paint can hide a lot of things but it's too bad it's not going to hide that. So you have some repair work to do.......at your expense".

I've said it before and this will be my last response, but I'm perplexed by homeowners who have total control of the $$ yet allow themselves to be so intimidated by total jerks working in their home?
There are many contractors out there who do quality work and take pride in it. They may be busy and you may have to wait for them to do your job........but it'll be worth it.

Annz, your points are all perfectly correct, perfectly well taken. And i tell myself those very same things over and over again. I don't know why ... i truly don't know why i can't seem to cross a certain line, you know? Even when my observations and grievances are perfectly legitimate. It's as if the choices are to roll over or explode, and inevitably, i roll over.

But this post isn't about me, to be sure (why isn't everything about me?). I hope, mollie, your paint issues are on the right track again. Keep a watchful eye, and follow closely the advise you've gotten from others here. :)