Here's the other layout. I would have the two entrances but it may be too cramped.

As to the layout, we are moving the back door and can place windows where ever. Our back yard is on the back of the house where I've placed the sink.

Here is a link that might be useful: Two entrance kitchen with snack bar

I don't entirely understand your story. You don't need a contractor's approval or agreement to renovate your house at your expense. Either he already signed a contract, and has nothing more to say, or you find another contractor, and he has nothing more to say.

Maybe there are better ways to redo your kitchen, maybe there aren't, but if you're going to start the project by caving in to whatever a contractor says, I strongly urge you to return your money to the bank and forget the renovation. There are plenty of threads on the board right this second that will show you what happens when a contractor gets the upper hand, and it's a lot worse than having an old kitchen.

All that said, it would help if you labeled these various spaces around the kitchen. To me, it looks like you could move the entrance to the basement stairs, get a U-shaped kitchen, and push the run of cabinets that's sticking up flat against the outside wall.

Also need to know what that post is on the outside wall to the right. That should be moved, if it can be.

Tell me about this one:

Is the wall with the dotted lines load bearing or can it be removed. If it is load bearing, can it be replaced with columns

If YOU'RE happy with the plan that's all that matters. Find another contractor who will execute the plan for you. Now if there are flaws in the plan that simply won't work that the original contractor pointed out, that's one thing, but if he doesn't like the design, too bad, it's not his house. I'm sure there are other contractors who will be happy to do the work. I just hope you haven't already signed a contract with this guy and locked yourself in.

Geez. There may be just a touch of over reaction here on the forum. Your builder may think you actually want to get the most for your money and have an idea about a better way to do that.

As a for-hire-will-travel person myself if someone asks me to come do work for them I will absolutely let them know if I think I can s@ve them money and still achieve what they are looking for. Assumably, he's a professional with years of experience that you are paying nicely for... don't you want him to voice that experience?

An architect often has no reality base for pricing, you had to try several times with yours before the plans were within budget, so the person who will actually be bi11ing you might be able to provide insight that would help you weigh options.

He may be totally out of synch and want to replace your granite with painted plywood or he may be able to say "you've specified a 43" window which is custom and 3500 dollars but a 45" window is stock and 700 bucks." Unless this contractor is telling you your plan is ugly you might want to listen to the man your paying.

Lovestocook4six - Thanks for finding my original plan. I'll have to figure that out someday. That plan was the architect's idea of what we should do which was to flip flop our dining room and kitchen. After the price came back, we would be overbuilding the neighborhood. The dotted wall is left wall of the kitchen, it is load bearing and the contractor thinks we can open it up to about 10 feet without the cost being overwhelming.

Morgne - I think the builder was trying to get us the best deal for our money. My original plan after nixing the architect's as too expensive looked very much like the one entrance plan except that I was in setting the fridge in the wall with the basement door to give us more floor space. The builder felt that the cost to cut into this wall would not be the best use of our funds. He felt that we could open up the interior wall on the right side of the kitchen for the same amount of money and would improve our layout.

My goal like most people is to have the best kitchen I can have for the money. After the shock of the contractor not liking my idea of recessing the fridge, I looked at the layout and thought I could either create an eat in kitchen with two doors or remove a doorway and get a more functional kitchen.

I honestly don't know if either of these is the best use of my 12" by 10'6" kitchen.

As for things I can't move, the chimney has to stay as well as the basement door and window by the basement door.

Thanks for all of the feedback already.

Can you post a 2D layout with all measurements? There's really not enough work space in the two entrance layout. If you can place windows anywhere, I'd stick with the single entrance layout but shift the sink and window down a bit further from the range so you have at least 3 ft of prep space. You'll lose the symmetry but with the window centered you have very little space between the range and sink where it's needed most. I find that the space on the other side of my sink is not very useful (except to hold the dreaded dish rack that I can't live without).

Of the two current plans, the two-entry-with snackbar, has much too small of a work space for the footprint of the entire kitchen, too much of the room is taken up with the eating bar and its seating.

The other plan seems workable.

I think you need to post a layout of EACH of your plans. 1 door and 2 door. with room measurements and appl where you have them placed. Then maybe we can see what we have to work with...

show all doorways and windows and rooms surrounding the kitchen.

how many in your family?

Why didn't your builder like recessing the refrigerator? So many others have done it and are so glad they did. As a matter of fact, I don't remember a single person regretting doing it, just regretting not being able to do it (like me!).

If your builder didn't give you any reasons for his disapproval of the various parts of your layout and layout as a whole, I would think twice about this. It may be that you're going out of his comfort zone and he's trying to get you back into it.

Honestly?? Unless this builder is a licensed and experienced KD AND cooks (or has someone on staff who is/does & his comments are coming from that person), I would not assume he knows what he's talking about. Builders are kind of like architects, they have their area of expertise, but the vast majority don't know much about functional kitchen design.

By all means, work with your builder to help keep costs down, but don't let him dissuade you from something that is really important to you or the he just isn't used to doing.

(Oh, and if he starts quoting you outrageous costs, get other estimates...builders will sometimes inflate costs to discourage you from doing something they don't want to do...I know, I experienced that w/my Contractor and I had to deal with it (I got someone else and then had to listen to my contractor whine about it later).)

All that being said, I echo others who have asked you to re-post your two options w/detailed measurements (window/wall/doorway widths and the distances b/w each window/wall/doorway). I know you're in a hurry, but the last thing you want to do is spend all this money and end up with a dysfunctional kitchen just to make the builder happy...who, btw, will not be living & working in your kitchen and who does not know your family's needs.

Stand firm. Your builder will probably be pushing you to get it done, but don't let him...you need to be sure b/f you continue with the kitchen and doorway/window placements. (How many times have we heard people here tell us they just put up walls, installed windows & doorways, etc. w/o first planning the space out to see how these are best placed/sized???)

I hope all this helps and remember, we're here for you!

Good luck!

palimpsest - that makes a lot of sense, I didn't think about the functionality of the counters, that's why it's so great to have real cooks look at the plan. MY DH is the cook, my talents only run to boiling water :)

desertsteph - As for family, there are three of us. My DH and DD who is 11. My DH is an avid cook and right now the only counter we have is a mobile island, there isn't even a counter on either side of the stove. That being said, he's excited for any counter space.

buehl - The builder didn't want to recess the fridge because that small wall has duct work to the second floor and in the small closet is a stacked washer and dryer which would have to moved further back causing work to need to done on the back of the coat closet on the other side. I hope that sheds some light on why he thinks it would be a better use of funds to move the entrance then the recess the fridge.

Thank you all. I can't tell you how much your help means to me. I know enough about design to be dangerous.

I will repost the layouts tonight with measurements and in 2d. I have been working with them for so long that I am forgetting the details. Can someone tell me how to get the pics in vs the links.

Thank you again for all your help.

Load your pics into flickr and once there right click on the image and select save image location.

Then come here and in your post put

img src="XXX"

BUT paste the image location in place of the XXX (you must keep the quotation marks) and enclose the whole statement in brackets

OK, I have been redone the blueprints with measurements. I am only going to include the blueprint of our existing layout and the builder's suggested layout. If any of you see any other possible plans that may work. I would love to hear/see them.

Appliances going into the kitchen:

I have a counter depth refridgerator, it is 27' to the doors and 35'wide and a gas range that is the standard 30' wide.

I will be buying a new dishwasher and microwave. We're still undecided whether to put the microwave over the range or somewhere else so we'll see.

I KEEP GETTING IMAGE REJECTED, SO HOPEFULLY ONE OF YOU GURUS CAN GET MY LAYOUT IN THE POST :(

SORRY

Here is a link that might be useful: Builder's Suggested Kitchen

Here's the link to the current layout.

Thanks Again!

Here is a link that might be useful: Current Layout

Current:

Builder's suggested:

What are those little rooms right above the kitchen? Can't you make a hallway from left to right so you enter the basement stairs from the dining room?

That's a thought, those little rooms are one of the changes the builder wants to make.

Right now we have a coat closet in the living room next to an entrance to the hall and an entrance to the dining room. In the hall in the other little room (current layout) there is a stack washer and dryer)

The builder wants to enclose the hallway and make that a laundry room. Not sure we'd have the money to finish the new laundry so right now I'm just drawing it with the current door and a new door from the dining room.

We could move the stairs, but I'm not sure what the expense is and I'm not sure where I'd put the laundry. I love having it on the main level.

Any suggestions?

There are also two sets of stairs, the ones shown are going upstairs, the ones not shown are in the corner of the kitchen going down.

I am not talking about moving the stairs at all. I assume that little bit at the top of the stairs (well, below the stairs in the picture) is the top landing? Why can't you enter that landing from the laundry room, so that you turn left to descend the stairs?

Then you could make that whole space a laundry room for future use (closet for now) with a door to the basement in it.

Now you'd have an entire flat wall to put in a U-shape or G-shape kitchen.

What's the distance b/w the window & the chimney box?

Between the window and the wall that has the doorway to the stairs?

hmmmm. I'm getting you now buehl.

The distance between the window and chimeny is 24". If I'm following you, then I'd remove that window and run the cabinets in an l.

Is that what you're saying?

Thanks!

{{!gwi}}

Can do same thing with less walls in laundry-stairs.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

If you wanted that outside wall to be standard depth, you could create a shallow pantry (cans and spices) on the front of that chimney, but even shallow -- that's a lot of great space. You would probably need to look for vanity (bathroom) cabinets that match the kitchen cabinets to get shallower depths in outlet cabinets.

I would prefer more room on either side of the range. Not seeing something I like better overall so far.

bmorepanic, yes! That's what I was talking about, except with the laundry room as all one space--saves money, makes the laundry more functional.

The baking corner could be reworked as a corner sink, and the range moved either to where the sink is now, with two flanking windows, or to the opposite corner from the sink.

Why do the outside cabs need to be so narrow? The chimney can be surrounded by cabs to make a shallow spice rack and fit right into a regular run.

That design really gives me something to think about. Thanks so much marcolo,lascatx, and bmorepanic. I bet the DH will love the idea of a baking area.

Do any of you think that the single entrance/exit will seem to closed off? or do you think like many that it's my best option.

Wow, marcolo- two minds!

To be able to move dw from the left side of sink to the right side. Get a big enough prep space between sink and range. Have enough room for a susan or super susan. The left side is slightly longer. Plus some visual interest in the corner.

I just looked at your "current" layout and realized there's a whole other option.

Is that a window next to your current basement stair door? Can that become your "back" door, with a sidewalk to the back?

If so, you could seal the current back door, knock down the pantry, and knock down part of that wall dividing the kitchen from the rest of the house, and have a much bigger shallow U-shaped kitchen, with the middle of the U at the bottom. Possibly an island would fit as well, but I can't see dimensions well enough to tell.

There is already a sidewalk on that side of the house so that wouldn't need added. I would be really interested to see what you could come up with, if you have time.

Marcolo it is a window. That wall's dimensions go like this window to chimney 60.5 inches, chimney 18.5 inches, chimney to back wall 65 inches.

The back wall is 126 inches to the current doorway which leads to the current pantry. The pantry is about 45 inches, I think.

I would have never thought of moving the back door to the side. I have a back porch on the house so I'm not sure how well that will work with out having an entrance to the porch from the house but maybe I could change the entrance to the porch. HMMMMMMM

Wow, it so awesome to get other people's perception of my space.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH EVERYONE!!! I am already feeling better about the process.

If you added an additional door where you have " 49" " written in the lower left of the plan, would that take you directly onto the porch? Sometimes it's nice when entertaining to have flow between the DR and outside.

Also--and this is a completely different tangent--is it necessary by code to have that landing at the top of the basement stairs? What I mean is, can you just open the door and have steps starting right past the threshold?

If so, you could push the entire kitche n UP to right where the stairs start. Maybe then you could fit a big island and have the kitch en open into the dining room.

Marcolo - That 49 does lead outside to the backyard area but it's over the mandoor entrance the basement.

Also sorry for the poor drawing but I didn't draw the downstairs steps only the upper steps. The basement steps do come up to the basement door.

Do you think a corner sink could work for my plan. Cabinets could go from chimney to corner, trash, drawer, corner sink, drawer, dishwasher, blind, stove, cookie tray.

I was trying to draw it out but I am so confused about what size the corner sink would have to be to fit a double bowl. I have been reading the posts but when I try to mock it up, my program doesn't have the sizes metioned.

Thoughts would be appreciated.