What a horrible experience. I'm no expert, but I would have an inspector look at the gap before they redo it. That looks serious and you want it done right. Any pros out there have a comment on this?

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that this will be the worst of it and that things will go much better from now on.

Nevertheless, I agree with Mitchcarnie that you should have an inspector come out to take a look at it. From the second picture it looks like the crack either went straight up or down on one side of the pool--like it wants to split the pool in half. So sorry.

You seem like someone is trying to find bright spots in whatever is going on...

I'm sure you've realized it by now... but it sure is a good thing that your pb wasn't expeditious. If they were, they might have plastered right over that future crack, filled it with water, and now you'd be...

5 months... and a big crack... you might better find a couple experts to lend their assistance... one in the engineering field, and one of those guys that use a lot of yellow legal pads, and oversize paper with double-spaced typing for everything.

I'm in the middle of a build myself, and from what I've watched, I'm only a misques from being in your situation also. There's too much money in this industry for it not to attract too many people who don't take it seriously.

Best of luck, my friend. Keep us posted.

Thank you for your replies.

I have called the pool inspector and left messages this morning.

Yes, the crack started on the top left bond beam and went down the side of the beam and across the entire width of the pool. At first they tried to ask if we had done anything, now they say it was one of their contractors who hit the bond beam with his truck.

They took so long on this, I invested part of the money in a 45 day CD and when the next draw came, I had only 20K of the 25K for that draw, so they refused to do anything until i gave them the extra 5K, although I maintained, there should have been plenty of things to do for 20K. (that's the month delay that is "my fault."). I guess it's a good thing it took so long, to allow this crack to show itself and be fixed properly. The inspection company informed me they passed the gas inspection yesterday after 3 visits.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks so much!!

This thread scares me. I want to avoid this thread, but I cannot.

How much money are you into this guy for? My guess is that you've already paid more than it would cost you to finish the pool. Perhaps not, not until the deck payment. I seriously hope I'm wrong here, but it looks like your contractor is strapped for cash. I really hate to make such a statement, especially over the internet, but I do not like what's going on in those photos one bit. Those photos, together with your story and the delays, I have seen this sinking ship several times.

There are several very serious issues going on in those photos.

First, the engineer of record needs to be paid to come and visit the site and make a recommendation on how to proceed.

Second, those so-called concrete "forms" need to ripped off and discarded as scrap. Are you supposed to get "cantilevered-edge" concrete? That's basically the industry standard, if not some other type of coping, then a nice cantilevered-edge concrete. What they've got going on with those forms is not cool at all, unless I'm sorely mistaken.
Next, since the tile is not installed, I have to question whether or not the bond beam has been floated level. It's not uncommon for the gunite shell to be out of level by a quarter inch, half inch, or more in the case of a shoddy builder. It's typically the tile guys that come in and float the top of the beam level and then set their tile and then the deck guys put their cantilever forms onto the top of the tile. Some builders will have the beam leveled and then pour the deck and then do the tile. Somebody on here was schooling me about that method and there are aspects I like about doing it that way, but the most important part is that the bond beam be leveled. I tend to doubt that yours has been. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

I hope not to look like a fool for laying it out like that, but as I said, I am not happy one bit with those photos. It upsets me that somebody is doing such shoddy work in my pool industry, and the biggest reason for delays and poor workmanship is usually cash flow crises.

If I was Joe Notapoolbuilder and that was my backyard, I would find myself out of that contract and rolling Owner-Builder style. There is much help and support available to you right here.

If your builder would like to post here and explain that I'm a fool and that he's taking care of you, then I will eat a crow and post the video on youtube.

T-square,

Thanks for not avoiding the post, I have no where else to turn but you guys. I have paid to date $44K for the pool and have 31K more to pay in draws. Yes I feel I'm being taken to the cleaners with nothing nice in the pool to show for it. How do I find the engineer of record to talk to him directly, and not through the pool builder??

Yes, those are the wodden forms for the concrete deck, which is cantilevered. Please tell me clearly what needss to happen as I'm about ready to file a greivance with the Register of COntractors as I don't know how to get them to be straight with me on anything. And I don't know what to tell them to do correctly, please give me advise.

They told my mom they would be out to gunite over that spot today, i've told them to wait until the inspector reviews it.

The engineer of record can be found on the pool permit. You should also see a steel schedule drawn up by the engineer somewhere in your permit. It will have some technical stuff on it about the steel placement and the gunite thickness. The engineer's info. will be on that.
The proper way to pour concrete coping around a pool is to use forms that are made for that specific purpose, such as those at www.stegmeier.com

I give your builder a "no confidence" vote.

OK all.

I spoke to the pool inspector, who reports he is aware they are re-guniting part of the pool, reports he has seen what they were doing and will inspect the area before approving plaster.

I called the pool builder and was told by saleman that "the owner is the engineer and is aware of the re-gunite, we are doing this as a courtesy to make sure the pool is solid." Gee thanks. Salesman and pool inspector told me NO additional curing- adding water, etc. to this new area was needed. He (inspector) also said the pool builder I have is one of the better ones for this area, they should do a good job.

When I returned home, this is how the pool now looks- gunite/concrete in the hole.

As a positive bonus, the landscape guys delivered some of the landscape rock today and I included that as a bonus.

Please continue to let me know if there is something I need to be on the pool builder about.

THANKS!!

What did they do with the concrete there on the bond beam? Why is there now a curved top?

They poured the concrete over the top and capped the bond beam. It's supposed to slope up to 2 feet above the level on the beam. Per the plan, the top was supposed to have those gentle curves like the mountain behind.

They'll return and top that with the acrylic coating they say, with the front face covered with tile.

Glad you got some movement anyway.

I can't offer any expert advice, but I'd sure make sure you have plenty of those pics stored somewhere safe... just in case you have problems, you can show a judge where they started.

You certainly have a beautiful setting for a pool.

Hope things go more smoothly for you.

I am having a pool done right now and was interested in your post. I noticed that the builder and engineer are one and the same??? That's convenient! For him!

I also noticed that there was only one light for the whole pool (unless the pics didn't show another one). Your pool looks pretty large...does your builder think that will be sufficient?

Can't wait to see the finished pool! I'm sure it will be lovely! Keep us posted.

That crack scares me. I too was trying to stay out of this thread but I feel the need to say something. If your contractor actually believes that that crack was caused by somebody hitting the pool with a truck he must be on crack. I've had excavators hit and drive over my shells without a problem. You need to hire an independant engineer to examine the structure and the site, someone other than the pool company owner or the city inspector. Show him your pictures. Have someone shoot a level around the pool and see if one side of the original gunite is at a different elevation than the other. Granted, the original forms may not have been level but it may tell you something now and you'll have reference elevations for the future.
My concern is that if the pool cracked like that sitting empty what will happen when you put 250,000 lbs of water inside?
Was there a problem in the dig? Was it over-excavated on one end and filled back in poorly? Were there concerns about the soil from the beginning?
Not trying to be negative or upset you but that is how I see it.
Tony

What a bummer! I really hope they make it right for you. We'll all be waiting with anticipation. It will be beautiful once it's finished!

Another thing you might want to do is to write down/date all your conversations with the builder/engineer, etc. in case you need that for reference in the future. Good luck!! I hope everything turns out.

I hate to sound negative but you should probably have someone else look at your pool. My instinct told me we had problems during the middle of our pool build last year but I was assured by the builder everything was fine and we were passing all inspections but... Now we are involved in a nasty lawsuit trying to get the pool builder to honor his contract and make the necessary repairs to our pool. As my attorney said, the warranty and contract are really only as good as the person (company) who signed them. Good Luck

6 months to build a pool is crazy. I was complaining about 5 weeks, but 24 weeks would crush me. How long did the pool builder estimate it would take to build it?

It does look like it will be a great finish though. Is that two hot tubs, or is one a fountain?

Thanks guys-

Is there a particular type of engineer I should have look at the pool? Structural, building?? How much should I expect to pay for a consultation??

I wanted to add a second light (houseful and others will remember those threads), but the pool builder insisted one would be enough which means it probably won't be. I'm trying to block this one out, because I realize no one should bully or otherwise influence me in how MY money is spent. I'll probably try to get someone else to add some type of lighting later on once they ever finish. Any suggestions?

The builder is feeling certain that a truck hit the pool, it seemed flaky to me that a pickup truck can break concrete. There were no excavation problems other than the ground was pretty hard, no errors in excavation or fill-ins. The only thing I know is there were long cracks found in the floor and roof plaster of my house around that same time (and in the same direction) and my mom thought maybe the house/land had settled causing all those cracks. We haven't had any earthquakes (that would only be a reason for them to deny liability so let's hope none of those occur).

Thanks for the support. I'll keep posting.. No one showed up today and likely won't tomorrow either- they usually only work on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

Find a local structural engineer who is experienced in pools. He will tell you if you need to consult a geotechnical or soils engineer. My engineer charges me $250cdn for a site visit and more if drawings or reports are required.
If you want to add more lighting do it now. An underwater light would require a hole to be made in the shell and a niche to be mudded in - much better done before decks and plaster. Even fibreoptic lighting under the coping would require conduits under the decks and tracks to be installed under the coping, again, do this before decks and plaster.
I think a truck hitting the beam could chip the beam or perhaps cause a small crack at the top. It's the fact that the crack travelled so far that concerns me.
Good luck
Tony

Our pool is a 40 long with a 45 degree L-shape at the shallow end. Because of the shape, two lights were spec'd., but they are on separate switches. The shallow end blew out shortly after start-up so we only ever use one. We both commented the other night that we probably didn't even need the second one; that it would probably be too bright for us. With the shape of your pool, I think you'll be fine. However, I can take a picture of mine tonite so you can see how much light the shallow end gets. It might help you make a decision.

Cascade got it right, someone is on Crack if they said a truck did that. In my humble opinion the truck would need to be a fully loaded dump truck traveling at 25-30 mph to crack a shell like that. Did you notice any run away dump trucks in your back yard during construction? º LOL

Sorry but sometimes you just got to call BS as BS. Like them asking if you did anything? What could you do to a shell to make it bust open like that, Park a D-9 on the beam?

As soon as I heard that story I would have been calling a new independent engineer. I have seen back hoes and bobcats hit shells a couple of times and nothing more than a chip or loud thump. I know it is more $$ but go ahead and call someone that can come out and inspect the build if nothing more than piece of mind. If you can get a core test it would be nice. Just thinking but it may be because the gunite / shot has a low or bad mix ratio. If it is you could have these issues from now on, sorry not what you wanted to hear.
Sorry
D

Is that a sports-bottom pool?
It looks like the excavation was botched and somebody tried to backfill farm-style.

Thanks for all the suggestions and support.

I am looking for an engineer to come out and review what they've done. From what I've seen on the plans, this pool was never sent to an "engineer" to get specs, and all those things about steel placement gunite thickness, etc. The only plans I've seen are the ones the salesman drew up, and that is the plan that the pool inspector reviews from his can of stuff when he comes to inspect. There is nothing in that pool inspector site info that talks about any of the engineering things you guys have mentioned.

I had posted earlier in the build that it took them 3 days to pour the concrete/gunite/shotcrete and I had asked previously would this cause a problem with the pool. They poured part of the flooring and bench one day, the next day put up the raised bond beam forms and poured part of that and the spa area, then third day poured rest of beams and firepit area. I asked them then was that a problem, and of course they said no.

I'm so upset I just want to quit at this point and cover it over with dirt. But I'm already out this much money, and I'd better get tough and make sure they finish it right.

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

osorry1 - any progress? I am hoping yes for your sake!

Thanks to all who responded to my desperate postings 2 weeks ago.

With the help and encouragement of you guys on the forum (and other assistance) I am back on the way to a finished pool, with a written completion date (filled pool 7/4/07) and a lifetime guarantee on the pool shell.

I've enclosed the latest picks. They were here every day last week (I wish this kind of service had happened months ago and without all these problems, but there you have it.)

Thanks,

Oh my! I feel for you in this experience you are having. I am glad to see you are having some progress, but I would still be having trouble sleeping at night. I hope I didn't miss this because I have a tendency to read things over really fast. Did you ever have an independent inspector come out? When you researched this PB did you check with past customers? I remember you asking about the lights in another thread about placement and all. If that crack happened from a truck, the truck must have fallen in the pool! Either way, I'm glad to see that you are having progress. I hope things go smoothly from here on.